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Wing Walk Failure / Repair Options

rleffler

Well Known Member
This past winter, the wing walk material failed. It basically unlaminated from the adhesive, leaving the adhesive on the wing. It's happened a couple times, so I'm replacing in with another brand of material.

The issue I'm facing is that when I pulled the piece of wing walk material off the wing that was remaining, I've got about 6" x 3" area in which the paint failed and came off stuck to the wing walk material.

I'm now researching options.

1. How to I seal the edges of the paint left to ensure that it doesn't continue to separate? I don't want the mechanical paint bond to continue to fail past the wing walk material area. Especially if I have a remove the wing walk material again in the future.

2. The more I think about this, I'm wondering if I need to fill the void where that paint is? Since the wing walk material is fairly supple, especially when it's in the hot sun, I'm wondering if I will take the shape of the outline and slight depression of where the missing paint is? Granted the thickness of the paint isn't much, but as a perfectionist, I don't want it looking like **** either.

I've got a call into the person that painted my RV, but our schedules are making it difficult to talk together without playing voice mail tag.
 
Sealing the edges of the existing paint won't help the mechanical adhesion of the existing paint. It will however, prevent corrossion from developing and spreading to the metal under that paint, releasing the bond. Don't know about your shop, but lot's of amatuers don't scuff the aluminum agressive enough and this compromises the mechanical bond of the primer. They also tend to not respect the need to put the primer on within a couple of hours of scuffing, allowing surface corrossion to reappear and compromise adhesion.

I would tape off the peeled spot, leaving a 1/16" overlap onto the existing paint. Then spray that with a an epoxy primer (clean and scuff first). You will need 3-5 coats, maybe more, depending upon how thick your existing paint is. Then block sand the edges of the new paint until it breaks through on the 1/16" overlap. I would start the block sanding with 220 and finish with 400. The block floats over the new paint and you want most of your pressure on the edge of the block that is working the edge of the new paint spot, so that you don't wear down the new paint too much. No need to clean up further, as area will be covered. You want to use an epoxy primer, as something like a self-etch is likely to develop a very strong bond (it's porous) to the new adhesive and will definately pull up when removed (epoxy primer has a much stronger bond to base metal) It can be used safely though, as the adhesive on top of it will seal out moisture. A benefit to this is that it will sand much easier than the epoxy primer. Forgot to mention, don't let the epoxy primer setup too long or it will get progressively tougher to sand. Also, use a wet sanding method for this and let it set up for a week before putting the wing walk on it..

Be sure to mark the area where the wing walk material will end, so that you don't sand into that area and have to work through all the grits and buff.

In the future, you don't want to peel off stuff from the paint surface that has a very strong bond, like the wing walk material. You want to soak it with appropriate chemical to break down the adhesive and then scrape it off. This is especially true if you don't believe the base paint has a strong adhesion with the base material.

Larry
 
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Never had this problem so I?m shooting from the hip.

I don?t see a path forward outer that careful 400 to 800 grit wet sand of the area, prime and top coat, then buffing to blend into the rest of the paint (just like you would do on a car). For a small area like this I?d guess your paint guy can knock it out in a hour or two.

I would guess the root issue is the paint was not all that well bonded to begin with.

Let the paint harden for a few weeks before putting on more wing walk.

Carl
 
I've pondered the effectiviness of using something like Line-X or some other truck bed coating in place of the wing walk material.

You'd have to mask everything off really well, but once that stuff is down, it ain't coming up, and will likely last a very very long time.
 
i was just at a hamburger fly in a couple days ago and the crummy, falling apart wing walk on a 12 was what caught my eye. in the next 6 months i will have to put one on. the truck bed material interests me. can it be put on to bare metal with the intent of painting the wing in another year?
 
I've pondered the effectiviness of using something like Line-X or some other truck bed coating in place of the wing walk material.

You'd have to mask everything off really well, but once that stuff is down, it ain't coming up, and will likely last a very very long time.




Line-X would certainly work but might be on the thick and heavy side. I’ve sprayed on a number of these using a mixture of Randolph wing walk and Black Imron. You have to thin it quite a bit, but when done it’s very thin, extremely durable, won’t peel and has a nice semi gloss shine. It takes the larger bore tip in the spray gun. I will spray this mixture on my 9 wingwalks and steps when I get to that point.

Don Broussard
RV9 Rebuild in Progress
57 Pacer
 
I use Herculiner on my bush wheels to save the tread. It has proven itself so well, I'll be using it on the rv after I paint it. I plan on masking off the area and rolling it on. Plus it is xylene based and will not damage your aircraft paint.
 
wing walks came off in flight

For the second time in two years, the wing walk I bot from Flyboy came off in flight. I followed the installation directions EXACTLY both times.

Have people been more successful with one vendor's material versus another?

The Flyboy folks are really nice and replaced it for free, but I'd just as soon not do this project a third time.

Comments and suggestions welcome.
 
For the second time in two years, the wing walk I bot from Flyboy came off in flight. I followed the installation directions EXACTLY both times.

Have people been more successful with one vendor's material versus another?

The Flyboy folks are really nice and replaced it for free, but I'd just as soon not do this project a third time.

Comments and suggestions welcome.

I bought my material from spruce in bulk and cut to size. 600 hours and no issues. Pretty sure it is 3M material, but not sure.

Larry
 
I use the wing-walk paint

From ACS ----contains lots of grit, non-slip and works great and easy to touch up when it gets a little worn -- I use it on my steps, also.

Ron
 
What about the ones from Vans? On my quotation from Glo Custom, they stated installing Vans wing walk material.
 
RAC Wing Walk material

I think ACS carries the same product now, but I got mine from Ray Allen IIRC, and they've held up extremely well. 6+ years now and they look brand new, and a buddy has had them on his 8 for around 11-12 years and they still look great. Clean right up with just a damp microfiber cloth.
 
acrylic cleaner aka Prep Sol

The wing walk separation fault may be mine. Before I paint cars or airplanes, I always use a product known as Prep Sol, 3M Prep Solvent-70, to clean the surface.

To remove the old glue, I work with a credit card edge and lots of Prep Sol and it works nicely to remove the old residue. The paint remained intact (thank heaven).

The nice people at Flyboys suggested alcohol to clean the wing before applying the "walk" so I am wondering if the Prep Sol left a film that precluded adhesion. What works great with paint may NOT be what works great with the adhesive on the wing walk.

Once again, the folks at Flyboys offered a free replacement which serves as further testimony to their quality service. Blake claims that 95% of his customers have no issue but my walks have failed three times so I have to examine my procedures.

Comments welcome. What did u use before applying the "walk"?
 
The wing walk separation fault may be mine. Before I paint cars or airplanes, I always use a product known as Prep Sol, 3M Prep Solvent-70, to clean the surface.

To remove the old glue, I work with a credit card edge and lots of Prep Sol and it works nicely to remove the old residue. The paint remained intact (thank heaven).

The nice people at Flyboys suggested alcohol to clean the wing before applying the "walk" so I am wondering if the Prep Sol left a film that precluded adhesion. What works great with paint may NOT be what works great with the adhesive on the wing walk.

Once again, the folks at Flyboys offered a free replacement which serves as further testimony to their quality service. Blake claims that 95% of his customers have no issue but my walks have failed three times so I have to examine my procedures.

Comments welcome. What did u use before applying the "walk"?

I personally had three sets of Flyboys wing walk fail and another RV-10 at my airport went through two sets. I noticed while flying Young Eagles last summer what the root cause appears to be. When the surface gets hot, the adhesive went soft and the wing walk material starts moving. In my case, I was kneeling on the wing to assist kids with their seat belts. I pivoted on my knee and the material moved with me.

I have since replaced with material from Ray Allen. That's been on since last June and I haven't had any issues yet.

I used MEK to remove the old adhesive.
 
I noticed while flying Young Eagles last summer what the root cause appears to be. When the surface gets hot, the adhesive went soft and the wing walk material starts moving.

Wow Bob, you fly Y.E. in a -10??? That's kinda like doing Driver's Ed class in a Ferrari! ;-)

regards
-Marc
P.S. I bought ? interest in a C-172 that I use for Y.E.
 
I personally had three sets of Flyboys wing walk fail and another RV-10 at my airport went through two sets. I noticed while flying Young Eagles last summer what the root cause appears to be. When the surface gets hot, the adhesive went soft and the wing walk material starts moving. In my case, I was kneeling on the wing to assist kids with their seat belts. I pivoted on my knee and the material moved with me.

I have since replaced with material from Ray Allen. That's been on since last June and I haven't had any issues yet.

I used MEK to remove the old adhesive.

Flyboys wing walk material failed for me as well after about 300 hours of flying. It was a bear to remove the adhesive, using copious amounts of mineral spirits and elbow grease. Replaced with another set of the same material, but only a few months after that my plane was professionally painted. The paint shop installed Vans wing walk, which hopefully has better longevity.
 
Notes from Ray Allen's website

Bob:

Looking at Ray Allen's website on wing walk installation it says to clean the surface with a wax and grease remover. Prep Sol is a wax and grease remover. Next, clean the surface with alcohol, which I may NOT have done. Not sure.

Don't apply in hot conditions which means if I plan to fix this right now (in Tucson), I will install at 5am.

The bond will become stronger in a few days which means I should stay grounded for a few days. Then apply a little heat which Mother Nature supplies in abundance down here.

Thx Bob. I will order today.
 
I live in Florida, I get it at the boat store. If it will stand up to the sa or envirment here it will work on my airplane.

Bob burns
Rv-4 n82rb
 
Wow Bob, you fly Y.E. in a -10??? That's kinda like doing Driver's Ed class in a Ferrari! ;-)

regards
-Marc
P.S. I bought ? interest in a C-172 that I use for Y.E.

It's not uncommon for us to have three RV-10s, a RV-12, and a RV-14 flying YE plus a few other experimentals. We also have a few spam cans too.
 
Manufacturer says...

Hi folks, thought I would chime in here and hopefully add a little info to the discussion.

The stuff we sell on our website is a little bit different from the grit paper you find on most airplanes (that's why we like it). It is, in fact, a product that we get from a marine supply, so it is designed to stand up to sea and sun.

I've struggled for a while about whether to keep this product on the store. As you can probably tell from reading this thread, there are a number of folks that have had a similar issue with it, and I haven't been able to satisfactorily answer why this happens. At the same time, there is a silent majority that gets the stuff, presumably use it, and seem to have no complaints. In fact, just last week I was discussing this conundrum with another customer and she said to me "Please do not take this product off the shelf. We have applied your wing walk on our RV-6 and on a Zodiac a few years ago with fantastic results. We still think it is a great product, and probably the best wing walk that is offered right now."

While this issue is uncommon (I would estimate fewer than 5% of my customers seem to have any issue at all with this product), it does seem to get focused on "repeat offenders"... those that have the issue are likely to have it more than once (or, like in rleffler's case, multiple folks in the same flying group). Since there doesn't seem to be a recognizable geographic component to the issue, this leads me to believe that there may be a process issue.

I talked to the manufacturer of this product about the delamination failure. Their opinion is "The only time I have seen this type of issue is when the surface is prepped with a solvent based cleaner that breaks down the adhesive," and they go on to recommend a prep solution of 50/50 isopropyl and water mixture.

For what it's worth, I'm still on the fence about the whole issue. It seems like a stretch to think that residual VOCs or solvent left on the surface after using a prep solvent would compromise the adhesive in a long-term way, but I'm certainly no chemist, so I really can't say.

For the time being, what I've decided to do is keep the product going for the 95% of people that have good experiences and do everything I can to support the 5% that have trouble. We've added the manufacturer recommended prep instructions to any new orders. What I don't want to do is misrepresent the product or hide a flaw, and I certainly would like to know about any issues and have a chance to make things right!
 
Just a couple of random comments from my experience:

1. Goo Gone works even better than Prep-Sol to remove adhesive residue.

2. 3M Primer 94 really makes adhesive-backed products adhere. You wipe it on, let it dry, then apply whatever it is you want to stick. Disclaimer: I've never tried it with wing walk.​
 
I have a plan - thx everyone

1. Goo Gone works even better than Prep-Sol to remove adhesive residue.

2. 3M Primer 94 really makes adhesive-backed products adhere. You wipe it on, let it dry, then apply whatever it is you want to stick. Disclaimer: I've never tried it with wing walk.​
[/QUOTE]

Great ideas! Removal of the old residue took hours last time. Also, the 3M primer got excellent reviews.

Typically, I fly at 135kts and < 2400 rpm to conserve fuel so the wife doesn't cut off my addiction. The "walks" stayed in place till Mon when I descended at > 150kt which excludes most boats.

Great website. Somehow I missed sending in my annual dues which I corrected yesterday. Thank u Doug & Blake for your follow thru.
 
Goo Gone

+1 for Goo Gone for adhesive removal. A few years ago while camping with my aluminum trailer at Airventure, a side window broke and I had no choice but to tape it up with trash bags and some very sticky Black Gorilla Tape. After getting home and removing the tape (1,000 miles), it left a rather sizeable amount of glue on the aluminum around the frame. I used the Goo Gone to remove it. It still took a bit of elbow grease and time to get it all removed, but it did so with no apparent damage to the paint. As always, better to test some of these solutions before going "all in" just to be sure, but that product seemed to work for me.

Ditto on the great thread - I would have never even thought about potential separation of the wing walk pad - or that this was something that ever actually happens - until I read this thread... just one more thing to keep in mind for later...
 
wing walks came off in flight

I installed one of the replacement wing walks that flew off in flight.

Between Goo Gone, Prep-Sol & a credit card, all of the old adhesive was removed w/o damaging the paint. After removal, per Blake's instructions, the surface was repeatedly cleaned with 50/50 water alcohol.

"Snopercod's" suggestion to use 3M Primer 94 was absolutely brilliant. You wipe it on, let it dry, then install the wing walk. Make sure someone is helping you so the wing walk material goes exactly where it's intended the first time.

I tested the adhesive idea on another painted surface and the primer radically improved the adhesion. Better to spend $18 on a pint of primer than do this job again.

I waited a day and flew @ 160kts. The wing walk remained so now I will do the other wing.

Thx folks & thanks to Flyboy for their great customer service.
 
What about the ones from Vans? On my quotation from Glo Custom, they stated installing Vans wing walk material.

The ones I got from Van's are still working well after 21-years and over 3,300 flying hours. They have been stepped on a lot.
 
I have had the Flyboys wing walks installed on my 7 for almost 2 years and 250 hrs. Used Iso to clean before installation. No issues so far...touch wood! Much nicer than the sandpaper stuff IMHO.
 
I had my Flyboy wing walk fail (on a polished wing, may have something to do). Stumbled up a adhesive removal trick. Use quality masking tape (from plane painting stage). Apply, push onto remaining adhesive, and peal back. Takes a lot with it. Duh.
 
Blake (Flyboy Accessories, and my son too) and I have puzzled over the occasional wing walk adhesive failure for years. Occasionally, it fails. We're not sure why since it's a marine product specifically intended for heat, sun, and water.

It's been on my 3 Waverunners for 10+ years with no issues, and was on my Rocket for the 9 years that I owned that plane, with no problems. I even used it on the floor inside that plane.

I plan to use it again on the new plane, an F4 Raider. And just put some on my RV-4.

As one post said, it sure is easier on your knees than the sandpaper-ish stuff.
 
Flyboys

I just removed my flyboys wing walk after OSH. It started coming up at the leading edge about 4 months after first flight. I think it caused me to lose the Gold Lindy :)
Thought it was a prep problem, but I'm unsure now with a couple people saying the same. I had my painter paint this one on.
 
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I just had my Flyboys wingwalk tear off in flight last night. I was flying home in the dark (when all aircraft sounds seem to be amplified), and got a sudden loud buzzing noise. I thought, oh no what's that? It lasted for a couple minutes, stopped, then started again, stopped, and so forth. When I landed I found that the wing walk had been separating from the adhesive and flapping in the wind at a high enough frequency to cause the buzzing noise.

This is my third attempt at the Flyboys wingwalk. I don't blame Flyboys at all for this--they've been really helpful every time I have re-ordered, and I know they're careful about their product. It's important to remember that they're not the manufacturer, just the distributor. I really like the product (that's why I've tried 3 times), but I think it's time for me to try a different wingwalk product.

I might be doing something to cause the problem. I very carefully followed the alcohol prep instructions last time, and only got about 25 hours out of it before this separation started. So I'm not sure if it's heat related (it's so blasted hot down here in Phoenix!) Or perhaps the Sprayway glass cleaner and Lucas spray wax I use to clean my wings is somehow getting under the wingwalk material. That's one possibility.

Anyway, now I get to spend an hour removing the gobs of adhesive from my wings. I use Goo Gone and an old plastic card, and it still takes way too long to get this stuff off. I will try the masking tape trick that was mentioned above.
 
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