re: Affixing the passenger control stick permanently.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb07-2-6.pdf
b,
dr
From the PDF file:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb07-2-6.pdf
b,
dr
From the PDF file:
Van's Air Force
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New Service Bulletin Issued (all models except RV-3)
- Thread starter DeltaRomeo
- Start date
frankh
Well Known Member
Er yeah
A certain CFII friend of mine rolled my airplane inverted (all legal) after i had told him the stick came out...He was even waving it about as we taxi'd and jokingly threated to hit me with it as an IFR student encouragement device..Ha ha yes funny.
After get bored we do a few rolls no biggie, except on his third roll he stopped inverted...Of course I had forgotten to tighten my shoulder straps and "bonk!" I hit my head on the canopy.
So there we are testing out the inverted fuel and oil systems, me rubbing my head and him trying to jam the stick back in. I guess he though I'd get a clue that no one was actually flying the airplane at this point...
"Er...Your airplane"...
Frank
A certain CFII friend of mine rolled my airplane inverted (all legal) after i had told him the stick came out...He was even waving it about as we taxi'd and jokingly threated to hit me with it as an IFR student encouragement device..Ha ha yes funny.
After get bored we do a few rolls no biggie, except on his third roll he stopped inverted...Of course I had forgotten to tighten my shoulder straps and "bonk!" I hit my head on the canopy.
So there we are testing out the inverted fuel and oil systems, me rubbing my head and him trying to jam the stick back in. I guess he though I'd get a clue that no one was actually flying the airplane at this point...
"Er...Your airplane"...
Frank
R
Richard Suffoletto
Removable stick
I like to remove my stick when I fly alone. I have a clip for it on the rear baggage compartment. I tapped the passenger stick for a 8-32 thumb screw and drilled the stick holder to accommodate the thumb screw. Holds the stick firm and yet easy to remove.
I'm not keen on having to bolt it in...
I like to remove my stick when I fly alone. I have a clip for it on the rear baggage compartment. I tapped the passenger stick for a 8-32 thumb screw and drilled the stick holder to accommodate the thumb screw. Holds the stick firm and yet easy to remove.
I'm not keen on having to bolt it in...
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
Plenty of us use cotterless hitch pins to hold the stick in place.
That's a pin with a ring on one end and a spring loaded ball on the other end. With a big enough push or pull on the ring, you can force the pin (and spring loaded ball) though holes drilled in the stick, and it'll stay there until you decide to remove it...
I usually leave the stick stowed between the seats. Non-flying passengers appreciate the extra wiggle room.
That's a pin with a ring on one end and a spring loaded ball on the other end. With a big enough push or pull on the ring, you can force the pin (and spring loaded ball) though holes drilled in the stick, and it'll stay there until you decide to remove it...
I usually leave the stick stowed between the seats. Non-flying passengers appreciate the extra wiggle room.
PIP Pin
My rear stick is secured with a PIP pin - it takes a push of the button and a pull of the pin to remove it - two distinct actions. Same thing thing used all over the place in things like the Space Shuttle. (In fact, exactly like ones used all over in the Space Shuttle... )
Paul
My rear stick is secured with a PIP pin - it takes a push of the button and a pull of the pin to remove it - two distinct actions. Same thing thing used all over the place in things like the Space Shuttle. (In fact, exactly like ones used all over in the Space Shuttle...
)Paul
Brian Denk
Well Known Member
Huh??
The back seat stick in my -8 is a PITA for pax egress and impossible to fit my son's car seat with it installed. Thus, it shall remain not installed. Additionally, a permanently bolted-in-place, ham-fisted spam driver pax wing removal lever is not my cup 'o tea.
I think this bulletin is more applicable for the SBS RV's, where landing ops can (and quite often are) done from either seat. Not so in a -4 or -8 with no pedals, brakes or throttle. But really, BOLTING it in? Hitch pin or ball detent makes a lot more sense so you can still remove it without getting out the tool bag.
The back seat stick in my -8 is a PITA for pax egress and impossible to fit my son's car seat with it installed. Thus, it shall remain not installed. Additionally, a permanently bolted-in-place, ham-fisted spam driver pax wing removal lever is not my cup 'o tea.
I think this bulletin is more applicable for the SBS RV's, where landing ops can (and quite often are) done from either seat. Not so in a -4 or -8 with no pedals, brakes or throttle. But really, BOLTING it in? Hitch pin or ball detent makes a lot more sense so you can still remove it without getting out the tool bag.
Makes more sense, yes - but having a permanent solution insulates Van from the lawyer-happy crowd. If someone has a spring-loaded pin or some such similar device and it fails, the stick comes out and causes a problem or a crash, Van gets to shrug his shoulders and point to this diagram.
One word - Experimental. Build it your way.
One word - Experimental. Build it your way.
mark manda
Well Known Member
I need to comply because I worry about it in my 7A.
I fly it right seat regularly just to get a feel for it and if my passenger is a pilot, they like to fly left seat.
But, DanC warned me about sticks coming out, right now it's jammed in tight and electrical taped. I have a cannon plug and six or eight wires so I'm not sure a -4 or -5 bolt will work. I was thinking set screw, hood pin thingy, or I like the hitchpins.
Also, I removed my right stick boot along with the right control stick for the passenger one time.
I didn't leave the leather boot there so the assy was open and exposed.
When I went to do a preflight I had very little up and down. I found her headset's ANR box down in there partly hindering the controls. I'm glad I didn't yank too hard and break the battery box on the headset. Or take off....
I fly it right seat regularly just to get a feel for it and if my passenger is a pilot, they like to fly left seat.
But, DanC warned me about sticks coming out, right now it's jammed in tight and electrical taped. I have a cannon plug and six or eight wires so I'm not sure a -4 or -5 bolt will work. I was thinking set screw, hood pin thingy, or I like the hitchpins.
Also, I removed my right stick boot along with the right control stick for the passenger one time.
I didn't leave the leather boot there so the assy was open and exposed.
When I went to do a preflight I had very little up and down. I found her headset's ANR box down in there partly hindering the controls. I'm glad I didn't yank too hard and break the battery box on the headset. Or take off....
Chris RV6-A
Member
Had this problem with my RV6A. My wife was taking landing lessons in the right hand seat with the CFI in the left. Fortunately her stick did not come loose during landing or take off!
Fixed it almost the same way as Van's suggested.
Chris
RV6A
N613LE
Fixed it almost the same way as Van's suggested.
Chris
RV6A
N613LE
Dgamble
Well Known Member
I could use such a pin...
Are these available on the open market? My pax stick has a 10-32 bolt in it now, but I'd prefer something just a tad easier to remove.Ironflight said:My rear stick is secured with a PIP pin - it takes a push of the button and a pull of the pin to remove it - two distinct actions. Same thing thing used all over the place in things like the Space Shuttle. (In fact, exactly like ones used all over in the Space Shuttle...
Paul
dan
Well Known Member
www.mcmaster.com
search for "push button quick release pins"
Just make sure if you do use something like one of these pins that it doesn't interfere with anything, won't get caught in a stick boot, etc. It would be a shame to create a NEW problem trying to fix a...well...a non-existent one in my opinion but whatever.
search for "push button quick release pins"
Just make sure if you do use something like one of these pins that it doesn't interfere with anything, won't get caught in a stick boot, etc. It would be a shame to create a NEW problem trying to fix a...well...a non-existent one in my opinion but whatever.
the_other_dougreeves
Well Known Member
They are used extensively and make life easier. However, it's not recommended for essential applications, i.e., standing rigging. The pins can and will fail, particularly with wear. So, it's find for the Pax stick, but not the PIC stick!Davepar said:
HERE IS WHAT I WOULD DO......
Velcro! Purchase some wide velcro and cut the loop part about 3/4 to 1" wide and wrap one piece around the socket, another the same around the stick so they are touching when the stick is in the socket.
Then cut the other part of velcro 1 1/2 or 2" wide to cover both of the loop part. Cut it 3/8" longer so you can grab it as a tab to peal off.
TRY THIS..... AND JUST TRY TO PULL THE STICK OUT!! it won't happen. Have the tab face front.
Warren
Velcro! Purchase some wide velcro and cut the loop part about 3/4 to 1" wide and wrap one piece around the socket, another the same around the stick so they are touching when the stick is in the socket.
Then cut the other part of velcro 1 1/2 or 2" wide to cover both of the loop part. Cut it 3/8" longer so you can grab it as a tab to peal off.
TRY THIS..... AND JUST TRY TO PULL THE STICK OUT!! it won't happen. Have the tab face front.
Warren
Maybe could use a PTO lock pin or an all purpose pin as shown at http://www.ssbtractor.com/page42.html.
These pins have a spring that would wrap around the stick to engage the end of the pin and lock it in place. Easy to remove; not likely to be removed inadvertantly. Find them at trailer supply stores where they are used to lock trailer hitches in position. Also at tractor / farm supply stores for power take off applications.
These pins have a spring that would wrap around the stick to engage the end of the pin and lock it in place. Easy to remove; not likely to be removed inadvertantly. Find them at trailer supply stores where they are used to lock trailer hitches in position. Also at tractor / farm supply stores for power take off applications.
Potential gotcha
If you have a side-by-side RV, you haven't drilled your stick weldment yet, and you are planning to use a quick release pin instead of the recommended AN3 bolt, take note:
I drilled my stick weldment a few days ago, then ordered a pushbutton Kwik-Lok pin from MSC. It arrived yesterday and now I'm kicking myself for not having it on hand when I was making the hole. See, I drilled the hole parallel to the airplane's lateral axis (left to right) as shown in Van's service bulletin. However, the pushbutton pin has a pretty big head on it, which interferes with the seat ribs when the stick is moved to the limit of its travel in certain directions. In hindsight I wish I'd drilled the hole along the longitudinal axis (fore/aft) since I think the pin would fit that way without hanging up on anything.
Now I'm trying to decide whether to put another hole in my stick weldment so I can use the pin, or just forget about it and use a bolt.
mcb
If you have a side-by-side RV, you haven't drilled your stick weldment yet, and you are planning to use a quick release pin instead of the recommended AN3 bolt, take note:
I drilled my stick weldment a few days ago, then ordered a pushbutton Kwik-Lok pin from MSC. It arrived yesterday and now I'm kicking myself for not having it on hand when I was making the hole. See, I drilled the hole parallel to the airplane's lateral axis (left to right) as shown in Van's service bulletin. However, the pushbutton pin has a pretty big head on it, which interferes with the seat ribs when the stick is moved to the limit of its travel in certain directions. In hindsight I wish I'd drilled the hole along the longitudinal axis (fore/aft) since I think the pin would fit that way without hanging up on anything.
Now I'm trying to decide whether to put another hole in my stick weldment so I can use the pin, or just forget about it and use a bolt.
mcb
You could always use a clevis pin and a cotter pin. Or a bolt with a long shaft drilled for a cotter pin. Or, if you felt like getting fancy and know someone that can weld (every EAA chapter has someone that can weld), something like this:
Where it says "stick weldment" it should just say "stick". Forgive the primitive drawing skills....Visio was all I had to do this in.
Use clevis pins as the pins. Springs are readily avialable at the hardware store.
Where it says "stick weldment" it should just say "stick". Forgive the primitive drawing skills....Visio was all I had to do this in.
Use clevis pins as the pins. Springs are readily avialable at the hardware store.
I had looked at the push button release pins but didn't the large head so went with a ring grip quick release pin. McMaster-Carr #98404A011 not only much smaller but lower cost $1.93. 3/16" dia and 1.1" grip length.
www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?partnum=98404A011&pagenum=3236
www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?partnum=98404A011&pagenum=3236
PIP pins
There are a few styles of these pins. We use a bunch of them on the DC/MD-10 series aircraft. There are "T" handled ones, and straight ones. The ring on some is removable. I would remove it because the only reason we have that is to lanyard it to something solid so we do not loose the dang thing.
PIP Pins
There are a few styles of these pins. We use a bunch of them on the DC/MD-10 series aircraft. There are "T" handled ones, and straight ones. The ring on some is removable. I would remove it because the only reason we have that is to lanyard it to something solid so we do not loose the dang thing.
PIP Pins
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