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RV-6A Operating Costs

My dad and I are looking into buying an RV-6a or 7a. I have calculated our estimated operating costs and I want to put them up here so I can have some RV experts look my numbers over. Here is what I've come up with. Let me know If you think my estimations are off or if I'm missing something.

FIXED COSTS

Monthly Payment; $430 ($60k loan,15 yr term)
Insurance; $2000yr ($166/mo)
Tiedown at SNA; $1800yr ($150/mo)
Condition Inspection; $2000yr ($166/mo)
Maintenance Reserve; $1200yr ($100/mo)

This adds up to $12160 per year so I figure $500 a month "plane payment" for each of us. That's $16.43 per day. (Once the plane is paid off that would go down to $292 per month for each of us)

VARIABLE COSTS

Fuel; $56/hr (8gph at $7/gal)
Oil; $4/hr (1 QT per hour)
Engine Reserve; $10/hr
Engine Maintenance; $5/hr


That Adds up to $75 per flight hour of variable costs. If we each flew 100hrs per year(200 total) the total operating costs would be around $135/hr. A sports star LSA at a local FBO here goes for $127/hr.

If we each flew for just 50 hours per year, The cost would to closer to $200/hr. Still much less than renting an airplane of comparable speed(C-182, Cirrus SR-20)

Once the plane is paid off, these costs will get much cheaper. We could also sell a share to a third partner to reduce costs even more.

Would love to hear your feedback

T
 
I think your variable costs are high. Fuel is about $6/gal depending on where you live, and if your engine uses a quart per hour there is something wrong - most use one quart every 8-10 hours, with some even better than that.

No idea how many hours are on the engine/plane you are considering, but $10 may be high if you are planning just a overhaul. On the other hand, that would also accommodate a prop overhaul. There is also the point that TBO doesn't apply as a compulsory thing for part 91 ops.

Over the last 145 hours, my variable costs for my -6a have come in at $56/hr, and this includes set-asides for engine and prop overhaul.
 
Welcome to VAF!

Thomas, welcome to the good ship VAF.

I think you are pretty high on some of your estimates, like cost of annual, cost of fuel, cost of oil.
 
Thomas, welcome to the good ship VAF.

I think you are pretty high on some of your estimates, like cost of annual, cost of fuel, cost of oil.

I rather be high that be low ;-) 100LL here at SNA is $7.82 right now :eek: I would probably try to fill up at cheaper airports when possible
 
I think your variable costs are high. Fuel is about $6/gal depending on where you live, and if your engine uses a quart per hour there is something wrong - most use one quart every 8-10 hours, with some even better than that.

No idea how many hours are on the engine/plane you are considering, but $10 may be high if you are planning just a overhaul. On the other hand, that would also accommodate a prop overhaul. There is also the point that TBO doesn't apply as a compulsory thing for part 91 ops.

Over the last 145 hours, my variable costs for my -6a have come in at $56/hr, and this includes set-asides for engine and prop overhaul.

I said a quart per hr just to make it a round $75 :D I rather be a little high on overhaul costs. I leaves some extra $$ to add electronic ignition, FADEC, or maybe even swap the motor for a diesel come overhaul time. It seems like most the RVs on the market have less than 500hrs so there should be plenty of life left in the engine.

Thanks
 
I think

your conservative estimates are appropriate --- I have owned several airplanes, in partnerships (15-18), and the "real" cost of most of them was around $300.00 hr, mainly because the usage numbers are usually much lower than forecast. After the first year or two, "most" airplanes spend a lot of time on the ground.

Not to say owning is not the way to go, but to justify it strictly on the dollars will disappoint you.
 
your conservative estimates are appropriate --- I have owned several airplanes, in partnerships (15-18), and the "real" cost of most of them was around $300.00 hr, mainly because the usage numbers are usually much lower than forecast. After the first year or two, "most" airplanes spend a lot of time on the ground.

Not to say owning is not the way to go, but to justify it strictly on the dollars will disappoint you.

That is what we are most concerned about. If we are not flying a lot, the costs go up considerably, making renting or joining a flying club far more economical.

My parents want a good cross country cruiser to take them around the country. I want a fun, aerobatic airplane that I can fly on my days off and occasionally use for work. Renting a 172 doesn't satisfy either of these missions.

I figure that we could sell shares to more partners if the planes isn't flying enough.

Thanks
 
Not much to add

My cruise fuel burn rate is higher 10-11 gph with a O-360-A1A and C/S Hartzell. I used to get exactly 10 gph with a O-360-A4M in the Archer II we had based at SNA for 22 years (Tiedown #304 - there may be a red/silver/black ghost of a PA28-181 there). Oil estimate is far too high - as previous poster said 8-10 hours per quart (0.125 to 0.1 qt/hr) is more common. My wife Jeanine and I built our RV-6A in Laguna Hills before I retired and I flew to work every day from SNA to EMT and I never bought my fuel at SNA. I still fly all over the country to participate in ~20 air races per year and I have never yet seen fuel prices as high as what you are quoting for SNA. I usually see them in the low $6+ range at the expensive stops. The tiedown cost at SNA sounds about the same as when I left there in 2004. I am now paying $160/month for a large T-hangar with good lighting and electrical outlets in Fayetteville, Arkansas. Speed ... I routinely beat Bonanzas and Mooneys. I extracted all of the RV-6A speeds from the SARL database available for download at www.sportairrace.org and pasted them here for you:

Race Date Class A/C Type Pilot/Crew KTS MPH
AirVenture Cup 2012 7/22/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 195.26 224.70
AirVenture Cup 2008 7/27/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 194.56 223.89
Taylor 150, 2013 4/13/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 193.71 222.92
Rocket 100, 2010 11/20/10 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 192.80 221.87
BCAF 2013 5/3/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 192.30 221.3
Memorial Day, Terrell, TX 5/25/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 190.97 219.77
Great Northwest Air Race IV 9/7/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 190.90 219.68
Firecracker 100, Marysville, OH 6/29/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 190.64 219.39
Ghost Run Air Race, Jasper, TX 10/27/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 189.21 217.73
Lone Star Air Rally, 2012 10/6/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 189.28 217.68
MERFI Air Race 2013 8/24/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 188.87 217.35
Texoma 100, 2008 4/20/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 188.36 216.80
Pappy Boyington Memorial Cup 8/17/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 188.26 216.64
Ozark Grove AR, Grove, OK 11/3/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 188.22 216.6
Mount Vernon 100, Ilinois 7/27/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 188.15 216.51
Hill Country 150 II 4/27/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 188.05 216.4
Big Sky Air Race, Townsend, MT 7/6/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 187.89 216.22
GNAR III, Ephrata, WA 6/16/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 187.74 216.05
MERFI 150, Urbana, Ohio 8/25/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 187.68 215.98
Tennessee Valley Air Race 2010 10/30/10 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 187.52 215.83
Indy Air Race 2013 8/10/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 186.72 214.88
Pagosa Springs 160 9/21/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 186.54 214.52
Indy Air Race 2012 8/11/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 185.39 213.35
Cleveland Air Race, 2012 10/13/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 185.33 213.27
AirCap 200 8/24/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 185.16 213.08
Tullahoma 150, Tennessee 9/29/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 185.02 212.91
Hill Country 150, 2012 4/21/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 184.97 212.86
Rocket 100, Taylor, TX 11/10/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 184.77 212.63
BCAF Time Trial 4/28/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 184.38 212.18
BSAR II, Three Forks, MT 7/7/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 183.99 211.74
Pappy Boyington Memorial Cup 8/18/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 183.86 211.59
Rocket 100 2008 11/23/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 183.83 211.55
Taylor 150, 2011 4/2/11 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 183.41 211.07
Big Muddy, Carbondale, IL 6/9/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 183.34 210.98
Texoma 100, 2013 4/6/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 182.69 210.24
Taylor 100 2009 3/16/09 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 182.35 209.85
AirVenture Cup 2013 7/28/13 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 182.15 209.61
Taylor 150, 2012 4/14/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 181.47 208.84
BCAF 150, 2008 5/4/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 181.45 208.81
Grace Flight 2010 10/2/10 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 181.23 208.54
Texoma 100, 2012 3/31/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 180.87 208.14
Memphis 100 2008 10/19/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 180.26 207.44
AirVenture Cup 2007 7/23/07 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 179.99 207.13
AirVenture Cup 2010 7/26/10 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 179.83 206.94
Memorial 150, Terrell, TX 5/26/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 178.44 206.28
Tennessee Valley Air Race 2009 6/14/09 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 178.98 205.97
AirVenture Cup 2007 7/23/07 RV Red RV-6A Klusmier, Larry 178.90 205.87
Colorado 150, 2008 6/29/08 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 178.63 205.56
West Texas 100 6/6/10 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 178.04 204.89
Pagosa Springs 150, Colorado 9/22/12 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob 177.22 203.94
Memphis 100, 2007 10/28/07 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 176.86 203.52
Rocket 100, 2007 11/18/07 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 176.33 202.92
BSAR II, Three Forks, MT 7/7/12 RV Blue RV-6A Klewin, Kurt 172.79 198.84
Wichita 300 7/17/07 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 169.91 195.53
Great Canadian Air Rally 2010 8/22/10 RV Blue RV-6A Kukura, Dave 169.62 195.20
Taylor 100 2007 5/20/07 RV Blue RV-6A Axsom, Bob & Jeanine 168.72 194.16
Thunderbird Air Race, 2012 10/13/12 RV Red RV-6A Ahrens, David 167.42 192.66
Big Sky Air Race 7/9/11 RV Blue RV-6A Klewin, Kurt 165.48 190.44
Texoma 100, 2012 3/31/12 RV Blue RV-6A Gehle, Dave 165.08 189.97
West Texas 100 2009 4/12/09 RV Blue RV-6A Nymeyer, Rance 164.12 188.86
Rocket 100, 2011 11/19/11 RV Blue RV-6A Moore, Mike 163.43 188.08
TVA II 2009 10/18/09 RV Red RV-6A Phillips, Mark 162.66 187.19
Texoma 100, 2008 4/20/08 RV Red RV-6A Heathco, Charlie 161.75 186.17
Ozark Grove AR, Grove, OK 11/3/12 RV Red RV-6A Heathco, Charlie 160.07 184.21
Memphis 100, 2007 10/28/07 RV Blue RV-6A Lee, Ron 158.66 182.59
Lone Star Air Rally 5/14/11 RV Red RV-6A Bivens, Darrell 154.86 178.21
Great NW Air Race 6/13/10 RV Red RV-6A Hungelmann, Bill 152.37 175.35
Texoma 100, 2013 4/6/13 RV Red RV-6A Heathco, Charlie 145.01 166.88
Lone Star Air Rally 5/14/11 RV Red RV-6A McGinnis, Patrick 144.92 166.77

I wish I had not retired and left southern California even with its high prices - the best and brightest cancer doctors do not flock to small towns in NW Arkansas to perform their work. I now fly alone.

Bob Axsom
 
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One can never justify owning an airplane by looking at the financials.

It's about convenience and fun and utility, and avoiding TSA lines at airports, and being able to fly on your own time schedule - not on a rental's schedule.

If you can afford it, find the airplane that suits your missions and buy it.
 
My cruise fuel burn rate is higher 10-11 gph with a O-360-A1A and C/S Hartzell. I used to get exactly 10 gph with a O-360-A4M in the Archer II we had based at SNA for 22 years (Tiedown #304 - there may be a red/silver/black ghost of a PA28-181 there). Oil estimate is far too high - as previous poster said 8-10 hours per quart (0.125 to 0.1 qt/hr) is more common. My wife Jeanine and I built our RV-6A in Laguna Hills before I retired and I flew to work every day from SNA to EMT and I never bought my fuel at SNA. I still fly all over the country to participate in ~20 air races per year and I have never yet seen fuel prices as high as what you are quoting for SNA. I usually see them in the low $6+ range at the expensive stops. The tiedown cost at SNA sounds about the same as when I left there in 2004. I am now paying $160/month for a large T-hangar with good lighting and electrical outlets in Fayetteville, Arkansas..

I wish I had not retired and left southern California even with its high prices - the best and brightest cancer doctors do not flock to small towns in NW Arkansas to perform their work. I now fly alone.

Bob Axsom

But at least you're states not bankrupt with huge unemployment, but I digress.

Look on airnav for the fuel prices. Fuel is consistently in the mid $7 range these days:mad: What kind of cruise speed do you get out of your 6a at 10GPH? I assume thats at high power settings and ROP.(Lets not get into the whole ROP vs LOP discussion here);)
 
Seriously ...

I have nothing to say in response to your dominant concern for the state of your state's economy. I have flown 286 hours so far this year so when I say something about fuel prices it is about current events from coast to coast and border to border not your average pancake breakfast or hop around the pattern. The true airspeed is typically in the 150 to 170 kt range (I tend to focus on ground speed) in economy cruise. To get that burn rate I lean ROP approximately 75F, RPM 2450 and MAP 20. At WOT, 2700-2720 RPM, leaned for max power & speed the burn rate is approximately 18 GPH and the KTAS is 186-190.

Bob Axsom
 
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...maybe even swap the motor for a diesel come overhaul time.

Diesel is still pretty far off on the horizon for aircraft engines suitable for an RV-6 or -7 (e.g. in the 160-180hp range). However there are, if I remember correctly, two RV-9s out there flying successfully with the WAM 120hp diesel. Adapting an engine mount and cowl to fit a nonstandard engine can be a fairly involved amount of work... sticking with the tried and true lycoming is definitely the "path of least resistance".

BTW, my 160hp RV-6 at "full rental power" cruise speeds of 165-170 kts TAS at 7500-8500 MSL altitudes burns right about 8.9 GPH.

I never try to calculate my fixed and variable ownership/operating costs because... frankly I don't really want to know how much I'm spending on this hobby :p As long as I can keep making the loan payments, hangar rent, insurance and put some fuel in the tanks and still eat meals and keep a roof over my head, I'm happy.
 
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I track every penny on a spread sheet. I don't have a payment but
do have an equivelant hangar rent cost. I also don't set aside for
engine overhaul. But do account for GPS updates, XM weather etc...
My yearly budget is 12K based on about 70 hrs/yr. This year I will
be lucky to fly 60. So your 200+/hr estimate is reality for me.
But, it has been said before, my plane is ready whenever I am
and everything in it works. It is always clean and I smile everytime
I open the hangar doors :)
 
Diesel is still pretty far off on the horizon for aircraft engines suitable for an RV-6 or -7 (e.g. in the 160-180hp range).

I wish diamond would start selling the engines they use on the DA42. There's also the Centurion 2.0 engines with are used on the red bird red hawk. Diesel technology seems very promising ones the price comes down.
 
Fellow RV6a stats

I have only done a few 4:30-5:00 legs and my fuel burn is right under 7.0/hr at 145kts. 2250RPM 25 degrees ROP.
If you can afford this wonderful vehicle. Get it. You will not regret it. There are so many impromptu rides/trips that turned out to be a great day or so of flying. 15k+ hours and I love flying the RV.
Enjoy,
Rich
 
Just buy it and fly it. Dad for a partner, what more can you ask for. You won't regret it. Priceless. Keep us posted. :)
 
If you buy the RV-6, try to find another RV or T-18 to share a t-hangar with. A's and tailwheels fit fine together in a small T. You WON'T be happy with it tied down outside. If it's an extra $100-200/mo, it would still be worth it.
I just got back from a 3-day trip to St.Simons and I still hate seeing my baby outside for 2 nights :)

I've had my RV-6A for 11 months now and have just passed 100hrs. I'm only a 300hr pilot, and paid $1,200 for insurance last year and it just went down to $900 ($60k hull). $220/month for shared hangar rent. My 1st annual's coming up, but have several A&P friends and I'll be doing most of the grunt work. There are low time RV-6s out there. I bought mine w/ 300hrs TT. Not a squawk in 100hrs other than an annoying oil leak I can't track down. Heck, I look forward to putting gas in it, because I know I'm going somewhere!! My wife and I have had 7 awesome x-countries this year and I take it out on the weekends to roll and loop to my heart's content.

If it's been yours and your dad's dream, it's not even a tough decision. I sweated the #s for 3yrs before buying my bird. I'd rather be airplane-poor and memory rich :cool:
 
But at least you're states not bankrupt with huge unemployment, but I digress.

Look on airnav for the fuel prices. Fuel is consistently in the mid $7 range these days:mad: What kind of cruise speed do you get out of your 6a at 10GPH? I assume thats at high power settings and ROP.(Lets not get into the whole ROP vs LOP discussion here);)

Checking AirNav Fuel Prices for SNA, I see that you're paying FS (Full Service)price @ $7.82 gal. That will typically add $.25 - $1 per gal to your fill. As you mentioned, definitely consider flying to another stop to fill up or, stop and fill (better) before you land and park it.

Additionally, another thing to consider with building/owning is the factor of renting a spam can for a weekend. At my airport, WJF, if I want to rent to hop over to Vegas or Laughlin or any other weekend stay, they want me to pay for the time they're not renting it, minimum 4 hours. If I take off Friday for a 1.75 hr flight, park it, don't fly it Saturday, fly it back on Sunday for the same time, I've got 3.5 hours on it and they'd like you to pay for 12. NOPE! Owning is much better!! Fly on your own time, when you want!

Best wishes on the decision. (whisper in the ear) *build* *build* *build* ;)
 
Checking AirNav Fuel Prices for SNA, I see that you're paying FS (Full Service)price @ $7.82 gal. That will typically add $.25 - $1 per gal to your fill. As you mentioned, definitely consider flying to another stop to fill up or, stop and fill (better) before you land and park it.

Additionally, another thing to consider with building/owning is the factor of renting a spam can for a weekend. At my airport, WJF, if I want to rent to hop over to Vegas or Laughlin or any other weekend stay, they want me to pay for the time they're not renting it, minimum 4 hours. If I take off Friday for a 1.75 hr flight, park it, don't fly it Saturday, fly it back on Sunday for the same time, I've got 3.5 hours on it and they'd like you to pay for 12. NOPE! Owning is much better!! Fly on your own time, when you want!

Best wishes on the decision. (whisper in the ear) *build* *build* *build* ;)


My thoughts exactly. Renting is cheaper per hour but when I consider than renting a 152 to take to the Grand Canyon for a weekend could cost as much as $1200 and taking an rv that I owned is only $300-$400 owning makes more sense. Not to mention I'd have to reserve said c152 weeks in advance to have it for 2-3 days.

Unfortunately we have neither the time, space, or desire to build a plane right now. Maybe someday...
 
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