S&F Opinons and Reports

I was disappointed with S&F this year. If you're for the airshow, I'm sure you'll have a great time. That being said, for homebuilders, it's not what is used to be.

The experimental ramp is pretty empty, in part due to it being open to the public and people getting scared of damage, but I also think that it's because attendance level is down in general. Less exhibitors and less buyers. One of the source I talked to usually shares an outside space with 4 others. This year they want 10k so he passed on the offer. The higher cost has been passed on to the customers as I didn't see as many special as in the past. Wicks has the best deal there, 10% off and free shipping, Avery has some special and for the most part the rest are business as usual. What I like the most about Avery is that they have inventory on hand.

I spend almost the entire week last year. This year, I wasn't going to be able to spend as much time due to other obligations, but even with an open bed waiting in a RV, I won't be going back this weekend. It's probably better for my wallet's health anyways.

P.S. Does anyone know the story behind the Cirrus that went into the ditch?

It has obviously been noticed by other vendors. The following is from the Sonex website discussing why they elected to not appear at SnF:

The Sonex exhibit team observed a drastic drop-off in Sun 'n Fun attendance in 2006, following several years of more gradual decrease in qualified homebuilt consumer attendance. We feel the show is no longer providing an adequate return on the significant investment in time and resources required to maintain a presence as an exhibitor.

Click to expand...

Sound like SnF needs to be careful that they don't price themselves out of a show! Or by removing the whole experimental industry... they will just turn into a weekend airshow. I've never been myself... and am still looking forward to my first pilgrimage to Oshkosh.

No reply

I emailed Sun 'n Fun several months ago when I found out that the public would be allowed on the flight line and mentioned that several of my friends said that they weren't going because of that. I also encouraged them to seriously reconsider.

No acknowledgement, no reply.

Sun N' Fun

I attended Sun N' Fun two years ago and I must admit I was not not impressed. I will probably go back again someday but it is definately no Oshkosh. But hey, if I was living a couple of hours in a plane away, I would be there every year.

One of the things that bothered me was their flightline. It is so far away from the actual runway you feel like you are standing in the parking lot watching the airshow. At Oshkosh you feel like you are sitting right next to the planes as they perform. It also doesn't have that Oshkosh feel with all the activities that are going on either.

People will give it a shot once but if you have been to Oshkosh, I bet most people figure they would rather spend more money and stay at Oshkosh for the week rather than go to Sun N Fun and Oshkosh for a couple of days each. There is also that vacation and wife issue. Most guys using their vacation on two shows per year just won't happen year after year. Sun N Fun needs to offer something different that Oshkosh can't.

SNF 2004 and 2005 were pretty cool

I went to SNF in 2004 and 2005 and I really enjoyed both visits. I'm sorry to hear they are pricing people out of exhibiting - that's a shame. The small startups are usually the most interesting, and if they can't afford to exhibit at SNF or OSH, I believe we all miss out.

I'm planning to go to a large European show this weekend, mainly focused on GA and ultralights. (http://www.aero-friedrichshafen.com/html/en/) It will be interesting to see if there are any new products.

What I found most annoying in '03 was the fact that the RV's were all parked ahead of the airshow safety line. So, for most of the afternoon airshow, you could NOT go to your airplane, nor could anyone else. That's not in the spirit of an EAA fly-in as I see it.

Product report - Whelan lights

Not the most exciting product, but one that may be of interest to anyone that has not purchased their lights. Whelan has is a new A650 type Nav light that uses LED's for the Nav part of lights. Identicial foot print as the existing A650 and uses the same strobe. The main benefit is much lower current draw for the Nav light. BTW, the old A650's can not be modified to use the LEDs in the new light.

I've only been to SNF twice. First time in '99 then again in '06. I also went to OSH for the first time in '99 and then again in '03 as well. Between the two, I really liked SNF better than OSH in '99. At the time, I got the impression OSH had a bigger focus on fleecing it's membership than SNF. I also saw a couple of instances where OSH volunteers were down right rude to paying attendees. That said, my wife and I went back to OSH in '03 and really enjoyed it. There didn't seem to be as many planes on the flight line as in '99 though. Last year, we were really looking forward to going back to SNF for the first time since '99. Once there, I too noticed a big drop off in attendance of planes and vendors. It really surprised me, but I wrote it off to the economy. I was wanting to go again this year but after reading the previous posts, I'm sort of glad we didn't. We are planning to go back to OSH again this year, I just hope the drop off at SNF isn't an indicator of what's to come at OSH.

I'm heading to SnF tomorrow (in the Car) which will be my 4th consecutive visit...because I?m a relatively short drive away.
But I have to say that previous years have been great fun with lots of planes on the grounds. By Saturday afternoon last year many people had departed due to bad weather coming in Sunday and just wanting to get home ready for Monday morning so the people attendance may well be up on the weekend but many flyers are off home, at least the homebuilts. Interestingly the regular GA planes and "antiques" were in abundance and filled the large field south of the active.
I hear Cessna has a full line up of planes including their jets this year to mark their anniversary which will be fun to roam around. The food vendors at SnF last year were priced on the high side but were also of higher quality than I have seen at other open air events.
All in all its just fun to be out in the sun, walking around planes, watching planes, watching Patty Wagstaff do some wild things in her Extra and just strolling around. The indoor vendors normally take up 3 large hangers (or is that 4?) and it?s a great chance to see, talk and touch new products. Last year I ordered my engine from TMX (inc a show special) after spending some time with Mahlon and my instrument panel after a great chat with Gary from Aerotronics. This year I hope to buy a Halo headset; maybe I?ll get a deal...no not a group buy but a good ?support the industry by turning up at their stall? kind of deal - we'll see.
The highlight last year was standing with Alicia, my 5 year old daughter in the homebuilt area which lies just ahead of the grass strip. It was around 6pm and the bi-planes were taking off over our heads and other planes were leaving the show from the main runway just to the north. After being there a while I said to Alicia "Ok its time to go" and she said "Daddy can we stay just a little longer this is so much fun" - we'd been there since 10am. Priceless!
As a final note access to the flight line last year was by special pass only (usual EAA members etc) but the homebuilt area had its own entrance which while it wasn't manned (while we were there) it was never-the-less separated. I would think SnF could allow access to the main flight line but only limited access to the homebuilt section...I?m sure they know what they're doing...following the winning formula of OSH?

SnF

I was there on Tuesday and Wednesday.

Noticeably fewer Homebuilts on the show line. The rv ramp almost emptied every afternoon after the r/w opened back up.

Fewer small vendors, more high dollar guys. You could buy a Diamond Jet that seats four. I didn't even check the price.

I always enjoy the unconventional engine designers. Prettymuch none there.

It was chilly in FLORIDA. You could see your breathe during breakfast after rolling out of the camper.

cary

Just Got Back

I just returned from Sun-N-Fun Thursday night. The Indy Group flew down enmass on Monday morning. Getting in was a breeze, like 60 kts tailwind all the way and a 25 kts gusting to 35 kts crosswind at LAL. How about a 260 kts groundspeed? That was sweet.

I thought the show was about the same as it's always been. Fewer vendors for sure and fewer attendees too, but I recognize that most folks show for the weekend. Regarding the food, I think it is ten times better than AirVenture. There's more variety and there's BEER! Price is about the same but I found some good Italian food for about $5. I get so tired of the same lame food up at Oshkosh. There's a nice ice cream store with strawberry shortcake and malts too.

I managed to pick up one of the new in-the-ear headsets and used it all the way home. I found it very comfortable and reasonably quiet but it cannot mute out the lower engine sounds like an ANR set can. I need to try it out some more before deciding which I like best.

Regarding opening up the flight line, I had gobs of people over looking at my airplane and everyone was very polite and considerate. They were very careful and mindful of their behavior. I didn't have a single problem there. Generally, I think the crowd here is better than the crowd at Oshkosh.

Trip back was uneventful, but long. Fought headwinds all the way and it was bumpy, but safe.

While I haven't been to SnF in a couple of years, I have always enjoyed my visit there. I have driven there, flown there and camped under my Cessna wing with my son, camped there in a large recreational vehicle..

What I have generally enjoyed the most was the opportunity to "warm up" after a long winter in the farther north states. That's one thing SnF has always signified to me...that winter is over and the new flying season has begun.

Let's hope that this venue doesn't lose it's "end of the winter" shot in the arm!

Well, I had a good time.

I went on Wednesday, and as a builder, I once again Drove-In to the Fly-In. Since I live in Florida, about a 100 miles away from LAL, I've been going to Sun-N-Fun for about 15 years. I've missed 2 or 3 shows along the way due to other obligations, but I generally have a good time.

It's the biggest week-long collection of airplanes, vendors, and airplane people in the Southeast, so I'd hate to miss it just because they over-price the entrance fees, and food & refreshments. I ALWAYS learn something new or see some product I've never seen before, or see some new act that I've never seen before, or make a new friend. Hey, at least the general car parking and porta-pottys are still free.

The excitement for Wednesday a.m. was the "unintentional ditching" of a Cirrus. Taxied right off a taxi-way into in large gully. OUCH! Didn't see it happen, but heard no one was hurt. I did see the Cirrus get airborne again late in the morning . . . with help from a large boom crane and a couple of web-straps. Heard many theories as to why, no hard facts.

In the Warbird area, there were LOTS of T-6's, and lots of T-28's, one F4U Corsair, a couple of Yak-somethings, and a couple of P-51s. It sure seemed like there was a drop-off in Warbird attendance. However, there was some talk that some attendees may have been waiting for the weekend, and some were a little delayed by a Wx system in the Northeast. (It was only day 2 of the show, when I went.) There was a really nice B-25 Mitchell there, and it was even for sale. Billed as the "finest example of a B-25 currently available on the market", and asking only $695K, Thank you very much.
Worth every penny I'm sure. Still . . . wonder how many B-25's are currently on the market

The BEST "new-to-me" act was the P-51 flight demonstration team. Crazy Horse & Crazy Horse 2, flew a FABULOUS, tight-formation routine. I was just NEAT to see (& hear) 2 P-51s w/ same paint scheme make low passes and do some formation acro. Hard to capture in words, but worth the price of admission for me.

In the hombuilt parking area, there were LOTS of RV's of all varieties. Didn't count-em, but had to be at least 75 or more RVs already there on Wednesday a.m. I saw at least 4 RV-10's. There was lots of room for other Non-RV homebuilts to park. I saw a few Glasairs, a few Long-EZ's, Cozys, T-18s, and Mustang II's. But in general, the homebuilt attendance seemed to be lower than in past years. The homebuilt parking area closes during the airshow, so you can't look at RV's while the show is on, but it's been that way for many years.

There was some talk on flight line about the new policy to allow general public access to aircraft. I didn't see any problems myself, but heard one RV-8A fellow complain a bit about foot-prints in the dust on his wing. I wouldn't dream of climbing onto someone's wing or touching their plane without permission, but I suppose it happens.

I gotta mention the two little planes near the front of homebuilt parking. They both look like they would be a lot of fun for a budget builder. The BK1, and the Thatcher CX-4. Both are riveted aluminum, single-place, low-wing, tail-dragger, VW-powered, and could be finished for under $10K, including powerplant!! CX-4 has beautiful, classic lines, and can be flown with canopy off. I sat in the CX-4, 2 years ago. I'm 6'1", and 200+, and fit just fine, even w/ canopy closed. The BK1 has a more streamlined, contempory look, kinda like a Hummel bird, but bigger . . . I believe it had more cockpit room than CX-4 did AND I didn't see any fiberglass on it at all. Both of the designers/builders seem like 1st class gents to me.

In years past (1990s) there have been more RV-4s. That's what I'm most interested in, since that's what I'm building, (no offense to all the wonderful examples of the RV-others). Last 2-3 years, there have been only a dozen or so RV-4s during the mid-week timeframe. I met 3 of the RV-4 owners, and enjoyed talking to them. I felt bad that I kept one gentleman for over half an hour, but he was justifiably proud of his RV-4, and I got some TERRIFIC ideas from him. He had done a remarkable job keeping the weight down, only 920#, with O-360 & constant-speed prop! There were numerous details showing off his fine craftsmanship. I feel like I made a new friend to boot!

The vendor areas were laid-out pretty much the same as always. However, some of the bigger, corporate companies had more elaborate spreads. Cessna had their new LSA prototype there, but it was fenced off. Eclipse had one of their jets there, and there was also a big presence by Mooney, Columbia, Diamond, Adam, and others.

Compared to all the previous years I've been to Sun-N-fun, Van's Exhibit was pretty small, almost missed it. It wasn't in the usual place, and they only had the RV-7 & RV-9A. Not many sample parts on display like in years past, but plenty of hats & t-shirts available. I was kinda hoping to get an up-close look at the RV-12, but it wasn't there. I stepped through Van's tent, picked up a new accessories catalog, and slipped out of the way. Their staff was friendly, but seemed pretty busy with potential customers, and hey, they've already got my money. It's good to see them busy, hopefully means they'll be around for a long time to come. Those folks are responsible for many happy hours of mine spent tinkering in the garage!

I walked through the 4 big vendor hangars pretty quickly. Lots of the usual stuff. Avery tools seemed pretty busy. Had to wait in line several minutes to buy some extra drill bits, very nice folks at Avery. I met a really nice fellow at B & C Specialty Products. He took several minutes to explain the features of a couple of their products, and even though I didn't buy anything, I learned alot, and they will be near the top of my list for any future alternator or electrical system needs. There seemed to be more real-estate types there this year trying to sell air-park plots, and there was a fairly large display of fancy folding ladders. (I guess that's for all those high-wing pilots out there )

I didn't go to any forums, it just seemed too far for my feets to walk from the main airshow and exhibit area, and Wednesday's forum schedule didn't really float my boat.

Geez, this is getting WAY too long. Well, I was on the field for nearly 10 hours, walked a few miles, got some SUN, had some FUN, met up with a few friends that I didn't know before, ate some over-priced greasy food, & managed to get away without too much collateral damage to the wallet. Still looking forward to a trip to the big one someday - OSH.

If you're headed to Sun-N-Fun this weekend, get there early, wear plenty of sun-screen, and have a great time!

All the best,

Les,

GREAT REPORT! Better than some of the other aviation sites! You always get reports about the airshow, the warbirds, and the Commercial GA guys, but you really don't hear much about the experimental areas. Thanks Again.

--
Michael Crowder

Arlington Northwest EAA Fly-in

Hello-

I live near San Francisco and was thinking of attending the Northwest EAA Fly-in, at Arlington, Washington.

I have never attended, before, and I was wondering if it would be worth the long trip.

Thank you

combat404 said:

Hello-

I live near San Francisco and was thinking of attending the Northwest EAA Fly-in, at Arlington, Washington.

I have never attended, before, and I was wondering if it would be worth the long trip.

Thank you

Click to expand...

Dont forget the Golden west flyin at Marysville. Lots closer than Arlington.

http://www.goldenwestflyin.org/

Mike

The only real opinion I have from Sun-N-Fun is that Randy's Rocket is one of the most beautiful airplanes I've ever seen.

I'm not even sure the word beautiful does it justice. Well done, Randy.

Rick_A said:

Not the most exciting product, but one that may be of interest to anyone that has not purchased their lights. Whelan has is a new A650 type Nav light that uses LED's for the Nav part of lights. Identicial foot print as the existing A650 and uses the same strobe. The main benefit is much lower current draw for the Nav light. BTW, the old A650's can not be modified to use the LEDs in the new light.

Click to expand...

Is this for 14V? I know they have a version for 28V, but I wasn't sure that they released a 14V version.

jrsites said:

The only real opinion I have from Sun-N-Fun is that Randy's Rocket is one of the most beautiful airplanes I've ever seen.

I'm not even sure the word beautiful does it justice. Well done, Randy.

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Thanks for the great compliment. I appreciate it.

I live about 30 minutes from the SnF campus and got my yearly visit out of my system yesterday. We (my father-in-law and I) always try to go during the week to avoid the crowd, although I don't know if it helps much. We walked around for 7 hours and the weather was great. (Tip: If you forget sunscreen, visit the JEPPESSEN booth for free packets. They saved my hide, literally. )

I second what Les mentioned about all of the airpark displays there. Apparently, the new trend is to buy the most remote piece of land you can find, drop a runway on it, and start selling plots of land. There must have been 10 or so airparks represented there. On that note, I have rarely seen aviation-related businesses use the "sex sells" method of advertising. Heaven's Landing airpark (the one located in the Smoky Mountains that advertises in nearly every aviation magazine available) had a girl who looked to be about 18 or so, wearing a skimpy little angel costume, halo and all, standing around their booth all day. To me (a 24 year old heterosexual male), it was incredibly cheesy and just seemed out of place. For the record, the booth was empty.

To me, SnF was about the same as it is every year. I tried the in-ear headsets some of you rave about, and was blown away by the clarity of the speakers. Despite the pulished attenuation numbers of 32-39dB, I simply can't believe that they could provide the same noise reduction as could my old passive attenuation D. Clarks. I guess I need to try them out in an acutal airplane environment before passing judgment.

I wasn't too interested in the show specials (I don't have a plane), but we did pick up XM Weather. They are running a deal where if you buy the "Aviator" package (the fully-loaded package) for 6 months or more, they will waive the $75 activation fee and give you a 10% discount off the monthly rate. Not a bad deal. Here's a little secret: Even if you can't make it to SnF, call the 800 number (found on the website) and let them know that you were at Sun'n'Fun and want the aforementioned deal. We didn't have the serial numbers of the Garmin with us and were told that if we called, they would give us the same deal over the phone.

It's always nice to see the new airplanes. I've seen the Diamond-Jet mockup before, but it was neat to see again. It retails for $1.2. The Piper Jet had an amazing interior, which reminded me of a BMW. The Cesnna LSA concept looked neat. As mentioned above, it was fenced off and you couldn't get close to it. Having said that, it didn't have an interior in it anyhow. Maybe I've been in the dark as to Cessna's other new offering, but I saw something at SnF that I've yet to hear/read about in any publication. Now, I don't know where this thing came from, as it wasn't present at the Cessna display when we first visited in the morning, but as we were walking out, we noticed what looked to be a composie 172! They had it out in front of the Cessna display area, and it was surrounded by about 15 Cessna employees. They wouldn't let you get close it to it, and when my father-in-law got within about 5 feet of it, one of the Cessna employees put his hand up and asked him to step back. WTF? Don't bring an airplane to airshow if you don't want people to look at it! Anyhow, the plane looked pretty neat. It looked to be all composite, had no struts, and get this.......HAD A STICK!!! Now I didn't see the stick, but my father-in-law said that's what was in there. Maybe that's why it was so well-guarded?

The Van's booth wasn't very exciting. They had a -7 and -9 parked out front and that was it. I was really surprised that they didn't have a -10. Enough typing for me, I'm done.

rv7rv7 said:

Maybe I've been in the dark as to Cessna's other new offering, but I saw something at SnF that I've yet to hear/read about in any publication. Now, I don't know where this thing came from, as it wasn't present at the Cessna display when we first visited in the morning, but as we were walking out, we noticed what looked to be a composie 172! They had it out in front of the Cessna display area, and it was surrounded by about 15 Cessna employees. They wouldn't let you get close it to it, and when my father-in-law got within about 5 feet of it, one of the Cessna employees put his hand up and asked him to step back. WTF? Don't bring an airplane to airshow if you don't want people to look at it! Anyhow, the plane looked pretty neat. It looked to be all composite, had no struts, and get this.......HAD A STICK!!! Now I didn't see the stick, but my father-in-law said that's what was in there. Maybe that's why it was so well-guarded?

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It sounds like you were looking at the "Next Generation" airplane that Cessna has been touting since last year. It gave a flying exhibition at Oshkosh last year but did not land. It is more in line with a 182 than a 172 but has no wing struts and is of composite construction.

I didn't stop by the Cessna booth, but if I wanted to see it, I could have. I was in the show area before arround 7:30... no one at the Cessna booth to stop anyone from looking.

I think the don't get too close to the airplane is more for media hype than anything else.

For me, SnF started off on a sad note, having been on the flightline Monday afternoon when a plane crashed into a barn while landing at LAL. All I could think about was what their families were going to go through when notified of the accident.

On a lighter note, RV's were the most popular planes there. I can't wait to finish my -4 so I can join you guys!

Lot's of Fun at Sun-n-Fun

We too just put the 8 back in the hangar after our quick trip to Lakeland. It was not too crowded and great weather. The vendors area was always bustling and some places were offering discounts and others not. Great airshow yesterday. Had to leave early today before the airshow but did get to see Kahuna and his formation take-off in a six ship and do a flyby. Looked great. Can't wait to get checked out with FFI so I can fly with them.
Great trip back. Two and a half hours later we were back in the hangar here in Dahlonega.
Worth the trip down...
you bet!!

Here's a couple of photo's of the formation T/o

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Phyrcooler said:

It has obviously been noticed by other vendors. The following is from the Sonex website discussing why they elected to not appear at SnF:

Quote from Sonex Website "The Sonex exhibit team observed a drastic drop-off in Sun 'n Fun attendance in 2006, following several years of more gradual decrease in qualified homebuilt consumer attendance. We feel the show is no longer providing an adequate return on the significant investment in time and resources required to maintain a presence as an exhibitor."

Sound like SnF needs to be careful that they don't price themselves out of a show! Or by removing the whole experimental industry... they will just turn into a weekend airshow. I've never been myself... and am still looking forward to my first pilgrimage to Oshkosh.

Click to expand...

I guess I read that a bit different having helped construct major portions of a Sonex. If you have ever seen their builders manuals or lack thereof, you will understand.

RatMan said:

I guess I read that a bit different having helped construct major portions of a Sonex. If you have ever seen their builders manuals or lack thereof, you will understand.

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Nah... just responding to the reported issues at SnF with what I had seen on the Sonex website since last year. I took it at face value. I briefly considered the Sonex - but want something with a bit more room. And my personal opinion is that they are a bit funky looking. But I must say... I've never heard from anyone that they didn't like theirs. They are supposedly a hoot to fly. It is kind of like the old saying about mopeds... loads of fun... but you don't want your friends to see you riding one. (I left out the inappropriate half of that joke!)

RVbySDI said:

It sounds like you were looking at the "Next Generation" airplane that Cessna has been touting since last year. It gave a flying exhibition at Oshkosh last year but did not land. It is more in line with a 182 than a 172 but has no wing struts and is of composite construction.

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I've been all over that airplane and as sexy looking as it is it is not composite. Aluminum and rivets just like your RV. Well of course the cowls and fairings are composiste but not the main structures.
Tom

Cirrus

Jenny and I were both amazed at the landscaping that Cirrus did at their display! There were walkways from plane to plane (about 5 airplanes) that were lined with landscape timbers and then bark was heavily laid between them.....really well done. The walkways to their V.I.P. booth and exhibit area were also done this way....a real class act.

The warbird show at the beginning of Friday's show was a wonderful reminiscence (sp) of bygone days and our soldiers in Normany and D-Day stripes on the C-47 (Miltary DC-3) twanged the heart strings as it made several flybys.

Looking over the huge experimental airplane parking lot always impresses both of us that all these beautiful airplanes were lovingly built over years and years in barns, mobile homes (yup, it's true) and in living rooms as I did years ago and in garages everywhere.......very gratifying indeed......worth going to.

Build on...

Perspective

When I was a young boy and there was an air show I would be there if at all possible. The feeling was one of almost religous devotion from an acknowledged unworthy position of one who could never even get close to an airplane let alone work around them or be a pilot. Those are the folks that really benefit from these airshows. It is probably hard to imagine within our community but most people have no chance to enjoy the adventure and the freedom of flight. We should support these events for them.

For myself I no longer enjoy airshows at all. I like flying for reasons that are special to me best enjoyed airborn with my wife or alone. Now, one could make S'n'F interesting to me personally if they brought back the Sun 100. I still have my letter from Jim Irwin returning my 2005 entry fee with the slightly angery explanation that after all of there promotion, organization and work the S'n'F management arbitrarily cancelled it.

Bob Axsom

RV-10?

rv7rv7 said:

The Van's booth wasn't very exciting. They had a -7 and -9 parked out front and that was it. I was really surprised that they didn't have a -10. Enough typing for me, I'm done.

Click to expand...

The 10 was there Friday. Don't know about the rest of the week. Saw several others(10s) in the RV flightline area.

Food was OK, $5 for a cheese Bubba Burger. Frozen margaritas were served in cheesey plastic coconut cups. Still miss the Margaritaville Cafe and shirt shack.

Friday night airshow was shorter than last year, probably due to winds up to 25MPH. It was still great.

I wish the vendors would give us a couple extra hours, say 8:00AM to 6:00PM, instead of 9:00AM to 5:00PM. We did not get to see all of the vendors.

Some things never change, [this sentence removed by admin due to rules violation] We saw some really neat Subaru powered Gyro planes from Macon, GA. A really impressive unit.

We all agree that attendance in planes, vendors and people appeared to be down. Prices for rooms seem to be up, but the hospitality at the show and especially at BOW was GREAT. BOW has a first class staff and facility. Good security, too.

I enjoyed a good seafood dinner and BBQ dinner with Capitan Ron and met some new RV friends. I bought a panel for my RV-10 and had sore feet, but my only complaint is TOLL ROADS! Don't you guys in FLA pay enough in taxes to give visitors a break. Big Brother at its worst!

See you next year at SNF08.

Much Sun, even some Fun!

Spent Friday vendor shopping, bought some knick-knacks like a Halo and a Mattituck. Tempted to get a Garmin 496, but resisted. Had a great time hanging out with Robby Knox! Actually managed to stay out of jail! Went back again today and left for home around 2:30. Have to fly tomorrow for profit. Hope everyone that went makes it back home safely.

captainron said:

.....bought some knick-knacks like a Halo and a Mattituck. ....

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My -7 needs a few trinkets, too. Any chance you have a grab bag of doo-dads you could send me?

Just left SnF a little lighter, bought a few odds and ends To me the crowds were nice and talked to many RVers. The show specials were at Eggenfellners, put the money down on the H6 turbo. He went the extra mile and that was appreciated As far as Vans not having much , as the crow flies, thats a long way to bring alot of stuff and the product speaks and sells itself.

TruTrak?

Did anyone get by TruTrak's booth?

If so did you see the new EFIS, get to touch it, what did you think of it, was there a price on it?

RatMan said:

Did anyone get by TruTrak's booth?

If so did you see the new EFIS, get to touch it, what did you think of it, was there a price on it?

Click to expand...

Nice basic VFR unit, intuitive and easy to use and, rumor has it the price will be 4000+ Release MAYBE!! sometime this fall

The Arron Tippen concert was really good, it was more of a jam session with four or five hundred of your airplane buddies

Bill

Extra Time and Snake Oil

With one or two days to visit, with money in hand and for a once a year event, 14 extra hours could pay off in a big way for a CUSTOMER SERVICE oriented vendor. BTW Bill what booth are you in? Maybe we can get our questions IQ screened and approved prior to visiting. Did you ever hear that the only STUPID questions are the questions you don't ask! Hope you enjoy your cold one.

On another note, I hope you have better experiences after your final check clears than a friend of mine had with the snake oil. I'd rather fly than mess with his junk.

Vern's S&F 2007

It was not as exciting as the first S&F I attended back in 1972 where I snapped a photo of Steve Whitman and Paul Poberezny together, but having hosted a few airshows, I really appreciate the huge effort made to accomodate such a crowd and to finance the event. Unless you have ever been involved in the administrative end of something this huge you have no concept of what is involved.

I am very impressed with the sacrifice of the huge team of volunteers. Many of them set aside a week each year to return to serve us so we can enjoy 'our thing.'

It was fun to meet Paul Rosales and his entourage of 8 California RV'ers stopping in for few hours before continuing on to the Islands.

I was also very appreciative of the regulars who show up year after year and let us learn from their RVs and experience. Thanks all! I recognized many RVs that I had learned a tip here and a tip there to use on my own bird. It tickled me to see folks taking some obscure photos of my RV-6A and thus continuing the helpful provision on each RV generation providing 'Chinese Blueprints' for the next generation.

Hanging out with Mahlon Russell and picking his brain is a real treat.He knows engines! There is a lot of balony passed around thru various highly opinionated postings but IMHO, if Mahlon says it,you can take it to the bank.

Bruce Bohannon was glad to sit around and share his learnings about getting the performance and techniques needed from his RV-4/Rocket and what it takes to reach new high altitude records. I will always remember how kind and patient he was many years ago at Oshkosh with questions from my then-teenaged son. Bruce just traded in his old Cub for a new 100 HP one and is doing tailwheel training in the Houston area.

Finally, seeing all my normally distinguished friends running around all stinky and sunburned in flip-flops and funny hats {myself included} was a show in itself.

See 'ya next year?

Sun n Fun 2007

Tobin and I flew in Tuesday evening, Camped in the Home Built Camping aera. Great Fellowship.
Great airshow. Love the WWII aircraft!!Worth the price just to see and touch these old planes.
Venders got some of my money but not too much. I want to build the kit I am looking at... Alll of them!! I was a kid in a candy store.
Lots of fun lots of fun.
I am looking forward to Oshkosh.

My wife and three children came with me this year. My wife hasn't been for 4 years and made the comment that it was bigger and better than she remembered and more families than she remembered. This may be because of the $15 special FL resident rate on Saturday (and Sunday).

Some observations:
1. The lines to get in were longer than previous years (10.30am Saturday)
2. That would be both lines, EAA members and general public
3. The Vendor booths were very well presented and the highlight, for me, of the big dollar booths was the Piper Jet mock up which other than having no wheels looked just like the real thing, ready to fly. The inside is quite tight but it seats 6 whereas the D-Jet seats 4 (inc. pilots)
4. Cirrus and Lancair booths were huge, sprawling affairs and again well presented with walkways to the planes. Their demo flights over the airfield before the air show were great. The Columbia flyby was particularly impressive with its engine tone, speed and agility.
5. I found and bought a pink headset for my daughter from Gulf Coast avionics. The guy told me the start of the week was slow but boy did it pick up towards the end of the week - they were rushed off their feet. He figured the slow start was weather related - that ugly storm passing through the country a week or so ago.
6. Quiet Technologies had a small booth (N-096) which I couldn't find on the map and dragged my family around for an hour to find but when I did I was very impressed with the product and, Phil McCandless, who was more than helpful. So, I came away with a Halo. My wife and I tested them, wearing a pair each. I'm just glad she realized other people could hear what she was saying!! She used the smaller foam inserts and found them, for the mins she wore them, very comfortable and quiet. She wanted a pair for around the house!
7. The food was of the same high quality as last year but is on the pricey side.
8. Walking around there were definitely equal to or more people than last year but interestingly although there was supposedly open access to the flight line, there was in fact controlled access through gates. This was also the case for the homebuilt area which was not on the main flight line but off to one side and again had a "security access". I walked in this area with my family at around 12noon and we were the only family with small children in the area. It would appear the general public worked their way around the high quality booths, spent their money at the high quality, highly priced food stalls and then headed straight to the main flight line with the big metal - F16's, P-51's, A-10's and the KC-130 and C-130 (I think). The security gate access to the homebuilt area may have put people off. There was a healthy number of people milling around the planes but obviously an aviation crowd by virtue of their T-Shirts and conversation with owners etc. This mix I would think has to be good, getting the general public interested (and spending money) and yet still catering by enlarge to the homebuilding and GA community as a whole. We need the support of the general public, and particularly now with user fees on the political agenda. I signed the AOPA petition board?maybe the general public did too.
9. Walking in to SnF you pass by the seminar booths and workshops leaving no doubt about SnF?s roots and its core.
10. Vans booth was smaller than last year but how big does it need to be? There so many examples of RV-8?s that are nicer than the Vans well used (warn) example, why bring it? They had lots of the Vans guys on hand and plenty of merchandise.
11. The NC National Guard had some big iron with long lines but hey when your little girl wants to play pretend boom operator or sit up front in a C-130 what can you do but line up. The crews were very accommodating and courteous, in particular the chap in the C-130 who made my daughter feel at home by allowing (encouraging) her to sit right up front in the copilots seat - priceless.
12. There were 2 guys with a partly built BD-5 - not sure if they were collecting money or what but they were certainly grass roots EAA types. They were close to the Cessna stand with their new generation and LSA offerings. The NGA was much bigger than I expected and actually makes the high wing design look quite sporty. I was more impressed seeing it in person than in pictures. The 2 Mustang Jets were, well, two Jets and looked rather regular. People were free to roam around inside and out. The Mustang from an aesthetics only point of view doesn't fall in the same category as the D-Jet or Piper Jet - aesthetics only!!
13. There were a good mix of planes in the homebuilt parking area from the Longeze, to (I think) Midget Mustangs, to something I took a picture of and have no idea as to what it was, to RV's to Lancairs to some very strange turboprops. Looked like some true homebuilt modifications. And the GA parking areas ware a sea of planes as previous years.
14. I saw what was the nicest RV8 I have ever seen. Spoke to the owner who was more than willing to chat and share ideas and experiences. The 10?s in attendance were also very well put together with some high quality paint designs. Many RV?s looked as good as if not better than the production planes.
15. The air show was its usual excellent mix of stunt flying, jets, Classics (Matt Youkin flying the Beach 18 in honor of his father Bob Youkin who flew the beach in a similar display for many years- quite spectacular) and awe inspiring with the B2 spirit flyby...or 2.
16. For me, Patty Wagstaff is still the highlight of the air show - great takeoff sequence.
17. New things - GRT have a new display coming out in Nov but on display at SnF. Not a wide screen but more inline with Advanced's screen. I didn't get to ask any questions - too many people for the staff. The picture is much better than the existing screen - brighter, smoother. Advanced's EFIS had the PFD, MPA and Eng info shown on all one layout.

In summary, Saturday, the day I was there, Sun N Fun was just that, living up to its name. The vendors were plentiful, there appeared to be more homebuilt planes than last year, the organization was excellent and the weather was just right...oh and I found and bought what I was looking for.

I just returned from Snf. <2.5 hours from Lakeland to Cartersville, GA in the RV-6. A great trip to a nice airshow, as usual...

On the way down on Thursday, I got into smoke from some fires in SE Georgia that caused awful visibility. Had to abort an approach to Moultrie, GA because of it. Couldn't see anything and choking on smoke too - not fun. So I waited a few minutes, and came back when conditions improved a bit. Why Moultrie? $3.40 gas. That gave me enough fuel to get to SnF and return to Cartersville without tanking up again.

At the show, the B-1, the B-2, and a Spitfire acro demonstration were the highlites for me. Also, I really enjoy the night airshow. There were about the same number of RV's as always, but it seems like the other types don't visit as much as they used to. I guess lots of the EZ's are getting long in the tooth, and Glasair hasn't delivered many kits recently. I'm always puzzled why there are not more Sonexes (Soni?) at airshows. I know they have sold a lot of kits, but either the kits are not being completed at a high rate, or the owners don't go far from home with them.

From a product perspective, I didn't see much new that interested me. Talking with the Lowrance people, they would have had XM weather out before Garmin, except for some changing priorities internally. They may have an XM product out next year.

From a product presentation perspective, Heaven's landing, with the girl dressed up in a very skimpy angel costume and AvFuel with several hotties in interesting outfits went out of their way to catch your eye. Didn't stop at either booth.

I did stop at the workshops and learned to run a bead with an oxy/acetylene torch. Also, went to the metal shaping workshop and made an aluminum bowl. Welding and metal forming are both skills I'd like to develop.

Attendance? Equal to or slightly down from recent years. Food? Other than one visit to the corn roast, we either ate what we brought with us or went off site.

We stopped at Homerville, GA for some $2.79/gal gas.. Of course, the line was long so we waited about 30 min for our turn. We ended up flying into Plant City and that turned out OK in the end. No delays getting in or out of there.

It was great to see Team RV/Palmetto guys do formation fly-by @ SnF... they did a great job.

SnF

I went to SnF on Tuesday and Wednesday. I went with my 83 year old dad (no longer flying--sold his Flybaby a year ago) and his 93 year old buddy who was spookin for a new plane to build! More power to him!

The first day I was finally able to take a test flight in an RV9A over at Plant City airport. I have been building one for 2 plus years and picked up my empennage kit at Van's in Aurora. It just so happened that the day I was there Bush and Kerry were there campaigning and they had a TFR on the whole area all day. It was the only day I could be there so went away with my new stuff but no ride. Now that I've finally gotten one I am thrilled about how it flies and can't wait to get out in the garage. Not today though, just had a 23 hour odyssey getting from Tampa to Bakersfield courtesy of USAIRWAYS.

I hadn't been to SnF for three years but noticed the drop off of experimental stuff and the increase in certified stuff I can't even afford to look at. Where do people get all this money???

I had a cheeseburger, diet coke and a piece of cake at the main food tent---$12. Next day a hot dog at the little place near the warbird flightline, more reasonable.

Bought the autopilot from Blue Mountain as I plan to put in their EFIS/ONE. Had a nice show special ($400 off) so went for it since I'm working on the fuselage and wanted to get the wing servo mounted so I can button up the wings. It was nice to meet the gang from Blue Mountain and put the faces to the names I'd seen on their discussion board. LARZFROMARZ looks pretty much like a regular earthling I thought.

Spent a lot of time talking to people about electrical systems, e.g. 28v vs 14v systems, internal vs external regulated alternators, 1 battery vs 2, etc. I'm not sure of whole lot except there sure ar a lot of opinions out there. I guess I'll just have to make up my own mind, scary as that thought is.

All in all I thought that the small fry was definitely less represented at SnF compared to the last time I was there. My dad and his friend lament that there are very few clean sheet designs that guys make just for the fun of making them and not to sell a kit anymore. For me a kit is the only way to go but I sure do appreciate the scratch built plane my dad built before the Flybaby.

Bruce Peters
Bakersfield, CA
RV9A, fuselage

I liked it

mhflyit said:

17. New things - GRT have a new display....... I didn't get to ask any questions - too many people for the staff. The picture is much better than the existing screen.

Click to expand...

I was there earlier in the week and access to the vendors may have been easier than Saturday (the day I left). Todd explained that they found this screen has a faster refresh rate that happens to just compensate for the heavier data flow needed from the main processor. In total, it gave the desired graphics without a speed penalty while still using the same hardware in the background.

I also spent much time at Mattituck Friday morning with John before he started engine assembly scheduled for noon. I watched him do an engine at Osh '05 but didn't get to really talk to him much. These guys are top of my list when I get around to writing that big check.

Anyway... I can't compare to previous SnF events. This was my first. However, I can compare to Osh since my first in '71 and many after. I enjoyed SnF simply because it was different. The airshows were great. I will stand, watch and listen to a 'stang any time. Multiple are better. The pair doing the tight formation show Wed afternoon was a real treat. The B1B overflight kicked butt and the night show was excellent. My wife says all other fireworks shows will be tame in comparison. We left too early for the B2. I was able to actually TALK to vendors for extended time without having to scrunch and elbow into position. I found all the pieces I wanted to buy too. Y'know the ones too small to pay shipping because it is one from this vendor and one from that vendor. ....And for whoever complained about the ladder salesman, I really got a chuckle from it I am starting my house construction so I thought the show pricing and free shipping was handy. It's on the way....

I'll be back next year. Camping way out on the fringes next to the cows and Sand Hills Cranes was quite relaxing.

Scott Will said:

Here are some pictures:
Sun N Fun 2007 pics.

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Great pictures, Scott. The B2 photo is one of the best I've seen - really impressive. Thanks for sharing them with us.

rzbill said:

...Camping way out on the fringes next to the cows and Sand Hills Cranes was quite relaxing.

Click to expand...

I really enjoyed Sun N Fun the two times I went but I can't say the camping was a great experience. The facilities are not nearly as good (or big) as Air Venture. The last time I went we were out in the West 40 and I mean that literally. SNF rented land from the farmer, chased the cows off, and put us on it. We had to rake the cow pies out of the way before we could pitch a tent! And don't even think about going to the potty in the middle of the night lest ye have yer rubber boots on - it like playing hop-scotch around all of the cow dung. The camp grounds were really crowded and people ended up camping on top of each other. Some were camping in the driving lanes so nobody could get out. I know they hate to turn people away, but there needs to be some reasonableness to the number they let in. It was the pits. The second time we stayed in a hotel. It made the visit much nicer.

SNF 2007

Let me first start off by saying that I live in Lakeland and keep my plane here. I have been coming since the late 70's and love it but it does have some issues. I'll try and address some of the points that have been mentioned here without getting to much into the politics.
Attendance has been gradually falling for years now. Hanger talk has come up with some pretty good observation on a number of points. First we wanted to be just like Oshkosh so we replaced Billy Henderson (who brought SNF to its notoriety) with corporate people who were not entrenched in the aviation world. It became and still is all about the money. Just ask the vendors they have been complaining for years. They keep raising the prices for the spaces at the same time the attendance is falling. We then change the time frame from Saturday to the following Sunday to be like Oshkosh to Tuesday thru Monday. In theory it sounds good but look were we are located. Our biggest draw is from above us. Oshkosh can draw from all around itself. The planes fly in on Tuesday Wednesday and leave on Friday Saturday to get home for work on Monday. At least with the old way the first weekend was incredible. Most of the warbirds now are gone before the weekend. There usually is another event a Leeward that they go to. This is when the public comes and they don't get to see all the great warbirds and their history.
Some of you have mentioned that you thought that Saturday was the biggest day but to us here we thought that Friday was the better day. Not sure if the numbers will bear that out. I did forgot to mention that there are a bunch of us locals that camp out and spend the entire week here so we get a pretty good feel for it.
As far as opening up the flight line this year to the public I haven't heard any bad reports. I do know that some of the guys didn't bring their planes across the field because of that fear.
As for Vans I went to the banquet and I think Van or Tom said the reason for the smaller area was that they were trying to get closer to the center of the field and that was the only space available. They didn't like being down at the end. Next year with the 12 being out they hope to have more space.
I agree with most of you that the airshows are incredible. What they do is poetry in motion.
As for the Cirrus we heard that it was a right brake failure but have no confirmation.
I think one of the observation we made this year is except for the weekend the average age was quit high. The hobby is pricey and climbing. We need to find a way to make flying affordable. Even if you look at the LSA's your talking $70 -$100 or more. We need to find a way to let the young participate. Except for them volunteering because we can't get volunteers anymore I just don't see their involment. But the way we treat our volunteers and why we don't have enough is a story for another day. Overall I would give the event a 6 or 7 out of 10 compared to previous years.

I would like to add this one observation. In ALL the material I reviewed coming from Sun-n-Fun like the daily newspapers, online news organizations, video feeds, etc., you almost NEVER see or hear about the homebuilt aircraft in attendance. In my opinion, that's the fatal flaw in their thinking.

I went and had an enjoyable time, not because of what S-n-F provided, but because I spent time with other fliers like myself. In my opinion, we need to move away from these organized events and create our own event like LOE is out West.

Perspective...

First - having never attended... I am a sideline QB to this show...

A lot of really good and interesting comments here.

Hopefully if the management of S-n-F are wise, they will solicit input and suggestions for improving the show... and then listen to constructive criticism. And then WE have a responsibility to take the time to send them our thoughts and ideas.

That said... I'd like to take a little bit of literary license to express a couple of my other thoughts:

"I've never met an airshow I didn't like..." and

"The worst day at the airshow is still better than the best day at work"

DJ