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Push Button Starter

starter button

Vonjet,

I can't imagine why one of those buttons wouldn't work and they look pretty cool. Go for it. It is your plane.

Mike Ice
 
I have flown planes with push buttons and from a safety stand point they are not a good idea. There is no key to lock the aircraft's ignition. Anyone can get it the plane turn on the master and push the button. :eek:

Story Time: I am reminded of SnF a few years ago where a customer was sitting in a light sport display plane and said; "What does this button do"? The Rotax 912S engine started full throttle, plane shot across a busy area, hit a ditch, went airborne, and then crashed into 3 cars. :eek: Push button stater? NOT a good idea in an airplane.

Go with the key lock. When the key is on dash or in your pocket the plane cannot be started.
 
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The specs from the manufacturers web site are as follows:

Switch Acutation Style: Push Button
Circuit Activation: Momentary
Amp Rating: 10A
Volt Rating: 12V
Terminal Type: Screw
Material: Plastic
Quantity: Sold Individually
Mounting Size: 24mm or 31/32"



Note that the he amp rating on the specifications does not say whether this is a rating for a resistive or inductive load

On face value this switch should be fine, especially if it has been design to control a car's starter contactor. However I would call the seller to clarify (don't mention it is for an aircraft!) as a contactor is a highly inductive device that is very hard on its controlling switch (don't forget to install the spike controlling diode).

However I do agree that installing a push button switch without protection is probably not a good idea in an aircraft, but if you want the look of this switch you could always protect the starter circuit with a hidden switch or using a simple SPST key switch in the circuit.

Mark
 
Don't count on it!

Go with the key lock. When the key is on dash or in your pocket the plane cannot be started.

I have seen MANY aircraft ignition switches that were worn enough that the key would come out with the switch in the "left" position. I had a friend whose Swift started with a small turn of the prop. The airplane had been sitting for days and the mixture was at ICO.
 
I love my push to start button from B&C. I also keep a throttle lock on when I'm not in the plane. Come to think of it though, wouldn't a mixture lock be better?
 
Push Button

According to the item description, it requires a key to illuminate, and I suppose arm the starter button.

Go for it!
 
I love my push to start button from B&C. I also keep a throttle lock on when I'm not in the plane. Come to think of it though, wouldn't a mixture lock be better?

I too am a fan of the push-to-start switch. I have had to dig the ignition switch key out of my pocket after getting buckled up...........zero times! :D

Never worried about unauthorized or accidental use of the plane. Hardly anyone can figure out how to get past the tip up canopy latch. :)
 
S-2000

My Honda S-2000 has a starter button - when I test drove it yrs back I thought it was the coolest thing. When I started work on my 7a back in 2003, I just knew it had to have one as well. I managed to locate a genuine honda starter button (http://www.handa-accessories.com/s2000-03.html near the bottom of the page) and sure enough, it's in my 7a. It's not rated to carry the starter current itself, so a relay was required.

s2kstart.jpg
 
I have seen MANY aircraft ignition switches that were worn enough that the key would come out with the switch in the "left" position. I had a friend whose Swift started with a small turn of the prop. The airplane had been sitting for days and the mixture was at ICO.

Well, I learned a long time ago never argue with Mel, but I guess we can choose to disagree on this one. If the ignition switch was faulty it should have been replaced. The push button system with no key is dangerous IMHO.
 
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I've got a Honda switch also

My Honda S-2000 has a starter button - when I test drove it yrs back I thought it was the coolest thing. When I started work on my 7a back in 2003, I just knew it had to have one as well. I managed to locate a genuine honda starter button (http://www.handa-accessories.com/s2000-03.html near the bottom of the page) and sure enough, it's in my 7a. It's not rated to carry the starter current itself, so a relay was required.

s2kstart.jpg
I have the Honda Start button in my plane. It activates a relay which activates the starter solenoid. It works great, and looks great. I've gotten lots of comments about how cool it looks, and no one has ever asked "What does that button do" :rolleyes:
 
Story Time: I am reminded of SnF a few years ago where a customer was sitting in a light sport display plane and said; "What does this button do"? The Rotax 912S engine started full throttle, plane shot across a busy area, hit a ditch, went airborne, and then crashed into 3 cars. Push button stater? NOT a good idea in an airplane.

The moral I get from this story it that you have to do some screening of the people you let in your airplane;)
 
Well, I learned a long time ago never argue with Mel, but I guess we can choose to disagree on this one. If the ignition switch was faulty it should have been replaced. The push button system with no key is dangerous IMHO.

Larry, go read the link.

Key is required.
 
I will be doing the same in my 8A. I will rig the starter button in such a way that it only gets power if three conditions apply: the master is on, the impulse mag is on , and the second mag or EI is off.

Anyone who thinks that a key switch will prevent a motivated thief from taking their plane is fooling themselves. I also read in the aerolectric connection (no first hand knowlege of this) that the four-way (off-left-right-start) starter switches fail all the time and that is why Knuckolls discourages their use. In fact, the way he wires the starter circuit is with two off-on-(on) toggles: when you toggle both mag switches to the (on) position, the starter contactor is engaged.
 
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That is when wired as recommended to a car. The switch is wired as an alternative to the start position of the key switch, but the vehicle's ignition must be on before pushing the button...

O.K., I'll take your word for it.

Statement in the ad can be interpreted a couple of ways:confused:
 
I have flown planes with push buttons and from a safety stand point they are not a good idea. There is no key to lock the aircraft's ignition. Anyone can get it the plane turn on the master and push the button. :eek:

Story Time: I am reminded of SnF a few years ago where a customer was sitting in a light sport display plane and said; "What does this button do"? The Rotax 912S engine started full throttle, plane shot across a busy area, hit a ditch, went airborne, and then crashed into 3 cars. :eek: Push button stater? NOT a good idea in an airplane.

Go with the key lock. When the key is on dash or in your pocket the plane cannot be started.

This switch only controls starter engagement, not the ignition circuits. If this is what you were intending to say, I agree with you completely. The ignition is, or should be still key locked, which would preclude the engine starting.
I have flown four different Rans LSA aircraft (all with Rotax 912 powerplants), and none of them had push button or toggle switch starters. There must have been some serious inattention by the owner/pilot as getting it started would require activation of four switches; Master, left and right ignition coils, and then the starter.
My PA-20 has a monentary toggle switched starter with keyed mag switch, and I have encountered no problems in the 8 years that I have owned it. However, as Larry pointed out, it could be possible for an airshow knucklehead to turn on the master and engage the starter. Therefore when I am away from the plane for long periods of time, I simply wrap a ty-rap around the back of the master switch and up front around the toggle. I have had a few morons decide to test my strobes, and check the operations of my digital guages!
There is one distinct advantage to some of these lighted push button switches, and that is they can be wired to illuminate only when the starter is energized. This provides a measure of safety in being able to ensure that the starter selonoid has opened after start.
 
MEL IS CORRECT!

Piper had an a.d. on their key switch way after I had the problem. Check an old in service switch, when you turn the key to off, if you can continue to turn the key past off by a hair, it will heat the mag back up and the key will pull right out.

Another problem with the key switch is engine kick back. When the key is in start position cranking the starter, it is also shorting the advanced mag. With a good fast starter spinning the motor, and it does not fire, and you let off of the start position, the key now heats the advanced mag......... and if the cyl is ready to fire, YOU WILL GET KICKBACK.
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the old C-150 I learned to fly in have a T-handle starter? Still had a key switch for the mags but I think I remember having to pull the handle to engage. Isn't that the same except you pull rather than push.
 
Alternative to keyed electrical systems.

I'm surprised that Vertical Power has not jumped in here. Their system does not need a key to secure the starter switch. Instead, you have to enter a 3 or 4 digit code to enable the starter button.

Tracy.
 
In fact, the way he wires the starter circuit is with two off-on-(on) toggles: when you toggle both mag switches to the (on) position, the starter contactor is engaged.

A friend of mine has this setup in his RV6 and I don't understand why it isn't more popular. I was sold on the idea the first time I saw it, actually I felt kind of stupid for not thinking of it.

In my opinion the traditional off-left-right-both-start switch that is in most airplanes offers no real security and leaves a lot to be desired in terms of convenience and longevity.

There is something inherently cool about starter buttons though.
 
I will be doing the same in my 8A. I will rig the starter button in such a way that it only gets power if three conditions apply: the master is on, the impulse mag is on (grounded), and the second mag or EI is off.

Anyone who thinks that a key switch will prevent a motivated thief from taking their plane is fooling themselves. I also read in the aerolectric connection (no first hand knowlege of this) that the four-way (off-left-right-start) starter switches fail all the time and that is why Knuckolls discourages their use. In fact, the way he wires the starter circuit is with two off-on-(on) toggles: when you toggle both mag switches to the (on) position, the starter contactor is engaged.

The impulse mag is off when it is grounded.

You never want the non impulse mag to be hot when you engage the starter. In fact, it should be wired to not allow the starter button to engage without the advanced mag grounded.
 
The rules for my Drag Race car that I also drove on the street at the time required a battery switch. I found this to be an excellent safety and anti theft device. Although out where it could be seen thieves are not looking for a battery switch and the engine can not be started.

Any computers or nav equipment that must have some power for memory can be wired to the battery side of the switch.

From a safety stand point the engine can not be started unless the battery is turned on, the ignition on etc. If you are outside the plane and people are around, turn off the battery such as at shows then bungling hands can not start the engine or whack you with the prop. Also if an electrical problem occurs than the entire system can be shut down easily. In automobiles even if fuel is involved in a fire the statistics I read said that over 90 % of the fires were started by the battery.

Nothing can be made "Fool Proof" I have been told because Fools are far too inventive but we can make it more difficult for them.

The marine type switch is probably too large and heavy for aircraft but there are smaller ones that would do the trick.

Bob Parry
 
Push button with interlocking key-switch!

Because the Key switch I am using, only has three positions (OFF / AUX / AUX+MAIN), I installed a push button for starting as well (probably only 2 to 3 amps rating, but it manages to "click" the starter solenoid). I have wired it in series with one of my 9 master-key-switch contacts, in such a way that it will only work if the key is in the AUX + MAIN position. That way I am also sure that I am not going to accidently start the engine on the AUX-battery (only 4 A/hr !). I am going to install a diode though, to hopefully help the push button and master contact, to live longer.

Regards, Tonny.
 
I learned a long time ago to keep people out of my plane, so a lock will be on my latch for the tip up, simple, drill a hole and insert lock. I don't want anybody in my plane, yup, I know, the lock will not keep out people that are desperate, they can break the canopy to get in. I want to keep the honest people out... honest. Never fails, if there is an open door, in people go. So if it's locked, even with the cheapest lock, people stay out, that's good. The last time I left a door open on my airplane, every switch was on and all controls messed with, no thanks. Oh and I have a push button start switch, very cool. Oh one last thing that helps a bunch, a cover over the canopy, what people can't see... well I think you know what I mean. If I'm sitting around the airplane, off comes the cover, they can look all they want, just don't touch.
 
I learned a long time ago to keep people out of my plane, so a lock will be on my latch for the tip up, simple, drill a hole and insert lock. I don't want anybody in my plane, yup, I know, the lock will not keep out people that are desperate, they can break the canopy to get in. I want to keep the honest people out... honest. Never fails, if there is an open door, in people go. So if it's locked, even with the cheapest lock, people stay out, that's good. The last time I left a door open on my airplane, every switch was on and all controls messed with, no thanks. Oh and I have a push button start switch, very cool. Oh one last thing that helps a bunch, a cover over the canopy, what people can't see... well I think you know what I mean. If I'm sitting around the airplane, off comes the cover, they can look all they want, just don't touch.

Along this line, if leaving the plane at an air show I lock the canopy with a very wimpy little combination lock. The thing is so flimsy it could be cut with a good set of wire cutters, but it tells honest folks I don't want them messing with the plane.

Why not use a more substantial lock? If someone is determined to get in the plane, pleeeeze cut the lock instead of busting that expensive canopy! :eek:

Another feature I like about my pushbutton starter setup is the "starter light" that glows when the contactor is hot on the starter side. A stuck starter contactor can really pull down a battery in a hurry, so the light is checked following a start to make sure it isn't still on.
 
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the old C-150 I learned to fly in have a T-handle starter? Still had a key switch for the mags but I think I remember having to pull the handle to engage. Isn't that the same except you pull rather than push.

The 150 I had used a regular L-R-Both-Start switch, but my 1950 C-170A had a big old knob in the center of the panel that engaged the starter of the Continental O-300.

PITA!

My -8 has the key but I'll switch to Aerolectric's switch setup if I ever rewire the panel.
 
Cool button.

I'm using a regular key switch for mags, push-button start on the infinity grips. (taildragger)

(and one mag is is not a mag: LSE-Direct crank, which has option for keyswitch control)
 
I believe we have found a new "Hot Button" topic (pun intended). 4 pages and growing.

I have a momentary toggle. I might consider a DPDT toggle for the plasma and tie it in with the starter solenoid. (starter toggle is not active unless the plasma is hot)
 
The impulse mag is off when it is grounded.

You never want the non impulse mag to be hot when you engage the starter. In fact, it should be wired to not allow the starter button to engage without the advanced mag grounded.

You are right. I had that backwards and went back to edit it but not before I had been quoted. Oh well. I stand corrected.
 
Any issues with kill switches and electronic ignition?

I have a push button starter in the -6 I bought flying, and during my recent panel upgrade, I placed a kill-switch (as described in a couple posts in this thread) in line between the mag and the Lightspeed switches and their components. With the kill switch off, the starter will turn the prop, but the mag and LSI are disabled, so no start can occur. Seems to work, but...

Now when I run-up the engine, if I turn off the mag switch (and run off only the LSI) I get a 100-110 RPM drop, and the motor runs noticibly rougher (it used to drop maybe 20 RPM and ran fine during run-ups with the mag off before the new switch was added). Drop is normal and engine runs fine when I turn off the LSI.

An RV friend just told me he saw a post that described problems with adding extra switchology to electronic ignitions or P-Mags, but a search has come up empty for me. Has anyone had similar problems or can anyone point me to possible solutions? I've checked for vacuum line leaks and wiring issues, checked all the plugs (which are new), and can't seem to find a reason for the rough running. Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks, and Cheers,
Bob

PS: That Spitfire starter button is very cool, as are the others shown! Mine is a very basic red button

n600ssleftpanelfo8.jpg
 
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Master security

The master on an Ercoupe is behind the pilot's shoulder. On a tri-pacer it's under the seat. Even experienced pilots (not familiar with the make and model) will sit there for an hour trying to figure out how to crank it. No better security than not being able to turn on the power until sombody shows you how!
 
Spruce has

a shrouded red push button switch that I used for my starter. I wired it through a hidden toggle for security. Haven't run it yet, but it should hold up OK with the diode across the starter solenoid. For the mags, I used two locking toggles (no lock really, just need to pull out before actuating). I like this setup because you have no single point of failure for both mags (like the standard keyed switch).

For higher security than the hangar, I will use a throttle (or mixture) knob lock.
 
Did anyone mention using a keyed on-off master switch? Start button doesn't work if the master is off and the key is in your pocket.

The new bird has a canopy lock because I once walked up to my airplane at dawn-thirty to find a certain jerk aviation editor taking pictures. He had removed the cockpit cover and all the loose contents; they were piled in the wet grass, and dew from the upper wing was dripping on the leather seat. Point is, it ain't just Bubbas who take liberties, so do figure in some switch protection.

No, I didn't hit him, but I should have.
 
I will be putting a lock on the canopy. If I catch anybody trying to get in my airplane for any reason... well lets say he will have a sore rump. Here is my setup, the button is the one from B&C.

panel6.JPG
 
Tracy is correct. You have to enter a 4-digit code before the starter is enabled. So you have a lot of flexibility regarding what type of starter switch you want to use, if at all. You can always start the engine from the display screen in Start Mode.

Here's a picture of the starter button in my -7.

start1.jpg



And a link to a site with more info: http://www.verticalpower.com/forums/showthread.php?t=501


I'm surprised that Vertical Power has not jumped in here. Their system does not need a key to secure the starter switch. Instead, you have to enter a 3 or 4 digit code to enable the starter button.

Tracy.
 
push button on stick

I have the Infinity grips and put the start button on the pinky button of the grip. Makes for easy starts now. Left hand on the throttle, right hand can now hold stick all the way back while starting. I use to have to hold the stick back between my legs while the right hand went to the dash to hit the start button.

bill whidden
RV-4
 
Starter Push button safety

I have a push button start on my 8A. I put a covered switch in the forward lockable bagage compartment and ran wiring in series to the start switch. With the switch off, no power gets to the starter switch.
 
Proximity Switch

While looking at the new Harley's and later a car with a proximity switch, I decided I had to have one. I also want the same push to start switch as you installed (they come in multiple colors too!). Anyway I decided that the two should work together pretty nicely. I haven't ordered yet, but basically my push to start will be enabled if I have the transducer (Fob) in my pocket and turn on the master and mags. No key needed - except for the canopy.

pushbutton and proximity switches are available here
 
While looking at the new Harley's and later a car with a proximity switch, I decided I had to have one. I also want the same push to start switch as you installed (they come in multiple colors too!). Anyway I decided that the two should work together pretty nicely. I haven't ordered yet, but basically my push to start will be enabled if I have the transducer (Fob) in my pocket and turn on the master and mags. No key needed - except for the canopy.

pushbutton and proximity switches are available here

At a rating of 50mA, 24V d.c., I wonder if these switches are adequate for closing the starter relay?
 
Just a note about starter buttons on the stick or panel. They have been inadvertenly pushed while the engine was running and shearing off the tips of the ring gear.
 
One of the great things about the VP-X is that it has an automatic cut out on the starter circuit once RPM is above 600. Still, I plan to install a starter arm switch so that the starter isn't accidentally energized on the ground, since I plan to have the starter button on the Infinity grip
 
I just used the recessed-in-the-bezel B&C starter button. I have it way over to the left. I don't see any realistic reason why it would get pushed accidentally while underway.
 
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