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New RV-10 for the wife!!

S

Slowpoke

Member
Hi All,

We just received our RV-10 emp/cone kit this week. We inventoried yesterday and we are setting up the shop to get started. The wife (Dana) is getting nervous. This will be our first build and we are going to be looking any helpful information you folks are willing to offer up.

I have a question that I could not find looking around the site, how do you strip the protective coating on just the rivet lines? Is there an easy way?

Thanks all,

Adam
 
Slowpoke said:
Hi All,

We just received our RV-10 emp/cone kit this week. We inventoried yesterday and we are setting up the shop to get started. The wife (Dana) is getting nervous. This will be our first build and we are going to be looking any helpful information you folks are willing to offer up.

I have a question that I could not find looking around the site, how do you strip the protective coating on just the rivet lines? Is there an easy way?

Thanks all,

Adam
Click to expand...


congratulations. I also just got mine recently and you have come to the right place for information.

The "standard" method is to take a soldering iron and a straight edge. once the tip is warmed up it melts the plastic and it will peel right back
 
Thanks Everybody, we are very excited.

We are now trying to make up our mind if we want to prime or not. From what I read it seems to be very up in the air which way to go, personal preference. We live in the desert but we do fly to the ocean and spend a week or so at a time.
 
Be CAREFUL!

The soldering iron tip WILL scratch the skins if you put pressure on it.

It is also recommended to round the tip of the iron so that there are no sharp edges.

I used a soldering gun with two loops of 14 gauge copper wire spaced about an inch apart?made both "cuts" at the same time...
 
Slowpoke said:
Thanks Everybody, we are very excited.

We are now trying to make up our mind if we want to prime or not. From what I read it seems to be very up in the air which way to go, personal preference. We live in the desert but we do fly to the ocean and spend a week or so at a time.
Click to expand...

i am priming but not going the fully overboard with it

clean with dawn dishsoap
acid etch
spray with SEM EZCoat.

i'm sure the SEM EZCoat will cost more than the primer by the quart/gallon. but not having the hassle of cleaning my spray gun for 10 minutes of spraying is worth it.
 
Adam,
Congratulation on getting started on a great airplane.
If your wife is excited about the build she'll be in love with the airplane once the 10 is finished and flying.
After having built and flown a RV-8 for many years and not getting my wife overly excited about flying in the back seat, she loves to fly in the RV-10.

As to your building question:
There is no reason whatsoever to not pull that annoying blue plastic off just as soon as you need the part or sooner. The longer you leave it on the more of a pain it becomes to pull it off.
Whether you prime or not has no bearing on pulling the plastic off. Once you are ready for a paint job the entire airplane will need to be "scratched up"
with scotch brite before applying primer.

In a nut shell I would encourage you to be efficient in your build and not get bogged down on unnecessary steps in the construction process.
Stick to the plans and you can get that airplane done before too long.
 
Great!!!

I will be buying a RV-10 on March, this is going to be my 3rd RV and this is going to be for my wife Macarena who is a pilot too!!!

She is going to love the RV-10, but I don't expect her to be involve in the building beside to decide color and avionics:D
 
Priming

"clean with dawn dishsoap
acid etch
spray with SEM EZCoat."

If you are using a Self Etching Primer, why go to the trouble to acid etch?
 
Tell the wife not to worry. My wife has been the head riveter for all the rivets I couldn't do the riveting I could do single handed. I'm the bucker. She truly enjoyed her job. I, on the other hand, didn't enjoy crawling back into the back of the fuselage.

Enjoy
 
Welcome to VAF!

Adam, welcome to the good ship VAF.

I will second what Ernst said, just get rid of the plastic when you start on a part.

As to the 10 itself, my wife just loves ours.

N427EF said:
There is no reason whatsoever to not pull that annoying blue plastic off just as soon as you need the part or sooner. The longer you leave it on the more of a pain it becomes to pull it off.
Click to expand...
 
I went to all the work to take the plastic off over the rivet lines throughout the whole tailcone. By the time I was on the fuse, I noted that the rest of the plastic was peeling around the edges and would catch aluminum shavings and create potential for scratching. I took it all off shortly thereafter. If I was going to polish the plane, it might make a difference, but maybe not. I'll probably have the slowest built RV-10 anyway with all my deployments and cross-country moves. I'd say take it all off as you do each part; I have no corrosion and only a couple minor scratches and I've had this thing on both coasts and several places in between with over 10,000 highway miles on it.

I have, however, primed every interior part with AKZO 2-part epoxy primer. ;)

PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
Albany, GA
 
N427EF said:
Adam,
Congratulation on getting started on a great airplane.
If your wife is excited about the build she'll be in love with the airplane once the 10 is finished and flying.
After having built and flown a RV-8 for many years and not getting my wife overly excited about flying in the back seat, she loves to fly in the RV-10.

As to your building question:
There is no reason whatsoever to not pull that annoying blue plastic off just as soon as you need the part or sooner. The longer you leave it on the more of a pain it becomes to pull it off.
Whether you prime or not has no bearing on pulling the plastic off. Once you are ready for a paint job the entire airplane will need to be "scratched up"
with scotch brite before applying primer.

In a nut shell I would encourage you to be efficient in your build and not get bogged down on unnecessary steps in the construction process.
Stick to the plans and you can get that airplane done before too long.
Click to expand...

I second Ernst's recommendation. I striped mine and five years later I had some surface corrosion along the edges of the blue film. They turn out to be real dirt collectors,,which in turn holds moisture.

If I was building again I would remove all the blue film the first time I touch the piece. Your painter is likely to scuff the surfaces anyways, so don't worry about a few scratches.

Bob
 
I like to wash and etch with Krud Kutter Metal Prep, then prime with Stewart Systems Ekoprime. It's water-based so you don't have the horrible fumes and toxicity. Use a Harbor Freight HVLP sprayer.

I strongly recommend priming all over. Got to see a Rocket undergoing its condition inspection a few months ago that had been primed only on mating surfaces; there was significant corrosion on the unprimed parts of the skins inside the aft fuselage.
 
rocketman1988 said:
"clean with dawn dishsoap
acid etch
spray with SEM EZCoat."

If you are using a Self Etching Primer, why go to the trouble to acid etch?
Click to expand...

i was advise by several on here, as well as 3 different autobody shops that even that the self etch primers have acid in it, its not the greatest for aluminum and i was better off performing a secondary etching.
 
Almost finished with my empennage build after more than a year at it. Good to hear I'm not the only one who pulled off all the blue wrapping from the get go. I started out doing the soldering iron thing on the VS and shortly there after said to self, why am I doing this?

I began priming with 2 part AKZO primer on the inside only and thought as long as I'm priming, I may as well do the outside too. I did an adhesion test on Alodined vs plain scuffed Alclad and found no difference. Survives the occasional forgotten dimple without chipping or peeling. Abrasion or stripper is the only way that primer will come off.

Mike
 
Lots of great information, we have decided that we are going to prime the interior before we start building. We will remove the plastic and prime each exterior piece as we finish. That is sad to hear about the Rocket with corrosion, mine is not primed on the interior and I would be not happy to see that.

The wife and I did some practice riveting this afternoon and she is feeling better about the project we have taken on. She still think that it is a lot of parts, good thing we did not get the whole thing at once.
 
N427EF said:
Adam,
Congratulation on getting started on a great airplane.
If your wife is excited about the build she'll be in love with the airplane once the 10 is finished and flying.
After having built and flown a RV-8 for many years and not getting my wife overly excited about flying in the back seat, she loves to fly in the RV-10.

As to your building question:
There is no reason whatsoever to not pull that annoying blue plastic off just as soon as you need the part or sooner. The longer you leave it on the more of a pain it becomes to pull it off.
Whether you prime or not has no bearing on pulling the plastic off. Once you are ready for a paint job the entire airplane will need to be "scratched up"
with scotch brite before applying primer.

In a nut shell I would encourage you to be efficient in your build and not get bogged down on unnecessary steps in the construction process.
Stick to the plans and you can get that airplane done before too long.
Click to expand...

Ditto the above.

Keep it light if you want to haul four real people, full fuel and 15 lbs of baggage each. My wife, 13 & 10 yr old love ours.
 
Adam we are receiving our RV10 tail cone/empennage today!! My son and I are first time builders so we are excited and looking forward to getting the process started. However, we will also need as much help as we can get!!
 
I don't know about other primers but, a gallon of mixed up AKZO weights 11 lbs. minus 5.4 lbs. of volatiles, a cured dry weight of around 5.5 lbs./gallon. Subtract the overspray and waste to get the true weight increase to the airframe. The data sheet says .0093 lbs/ft2 at 1 mil. I've used 1 gallon on the empennage, inside and out. My guess is that priming the inside has added between 3 and 4 lbs.

Mike
 
Welcome to the madness.

It's a real roller coaster ride, so remember: 1) the scary parts will come and go, so just hold on.. and 2) once in a while, throw your arms up, look around and enjoy the ride! :D
 
Prime

Slowpoke said:
Thanks Everybody, we are very excited.

We are now trying to make up our mind if we want to prime or not. From what I read it seems to be very up in the air which way to go, personal preference. We live in the desert but we do fly to the ocean and spend a week or so at a time.
Click to expand...

Im in SoCal (KFUL) have ocean year round, I primed but if I was going to do this again, I would leave the aluminum, as is and prime any spot that is scratched. (SW self etching primer).
You may move out of the desert sometime, if you leave the plastic on and dont scratch anything, there is no need for the short times you'll be near a ocean.
I am 8 miles from the ocean, there are certified aircraft that are rather old with no priming and they are fine, no issues.
As Ernst said, stay focused on the build and not "extras".
I totally enjoyed the build process, hope you do to!
Pascal
 
Thanks for the welcome, I've been lurking for quite some time and feel like I know most of you. I'd like to say thanks for all the posts you have made, they have been invaluable!

I'm enjoying the build immensely, more than I thought I would. Only challenge has been splitting my time between the RV10 and a Helicycle build, I have about 300 hours into each of them.

Mike
 
MLH said:
I don't know about other primers but, a gallon of mixed up AKZO weights 11 lbs. minus 5.4 lbs. of volatiles, a cured dry weight of around 5.5 lbs./gallon. Subtract the overspray and waste to get the true weight increase to the airframe. The data sheet says .0093 lbs/ft2 at 1 mil. I've used 1 gallon on the empennage, inside and out. My guess is that priming the inside has added between 3 and 4 lbs.

Mike
Click to expand...

Two things come to mind.

1. You are probably applying the AKZO too thick. I sprays so nicely that it is easy to do. The 1 mil spec has a film coverage that is almost see-through, the grain of the aluminum should be just about visible when the primer has dried.

2. The AKZO is an interior primer, it may not take top coats too well on an exterior surface. You should check with your projected paint shop.
 
The grain and blue felt tip marks are still visible, micrometer shows an average 1 mil. I painted outdoors and probably lost more to overspray than booth painting. I'll have to estimate the empennage square footage, probably added less that what I thought to the weight.

With the wing at 148 sq. ft. wing and a factor of 1.5 for ribs, spar..., I'm estimating 2 lbs. additional weight for those internal primed surfaces and maybe another 2 lbs. for the fuse at the most. That brings the total to 7 lbs. for the whole aircraft.

I spoke with a Boeing engineer before embarking on my project, the interior verbiage in the spec sheet does not preclude exterior use, "avoid leaving it parked out in the sun, subject to UV for an extended period before application of the final finish". Lots of "green" Boeing primer aircraft get delivered to customers for custom paint, polyurethane adheres great to scuffed AKZO.

Mike
 
Adam,

If you and Dana would like to take a trip up the hill, you are welcome visit our RV-7 project, and see how much progress can be made in 2 years, even in a cluttered and disorganized shop :eek:. I'd be happy to show you what I'm doing with the plastic and priming. I can also show you the effects (none) of leaving the plastic on for 16 years in this environment (HRII project on long term hold).

cessna170bdriver(at)yahoo(dot)com
 
Priming

If you really want to get a shock, contact the primer manufacturer. I used SW P60 G2, just like Van's on the QB kit. I was curious after reading these forums, so I called Sherwin Williams, and spoke with a tech.

Long story short, SW said that the P60 G2 primer needs to be top coated within 4 (FOUR) HOURS of application! I told him that the QB parts had been primed months ago, and he said "no problem, just sand it off". Yeah, right?

Anyway, if I build another, I will either NOT prime, or use a chemical conversion process like Alodine.

Priming takes a BOATLOAD of time, and I'm not sure it's worth the effort?depends on whether you want an airframe that lasts 50 years, or 100 years?
 
Hi Rocketman,
Usually you need to top coat within a certain time frame so you don't have to scuff the surface for adhesion, I would not think that you would need to remove it all. 4 hours is a very short window at that. I will talk with my painter before I paint the exterior to make sure I don't make more work for myself, that is the last thing I need. My painter is great but he makes me do most of the labor.
 
"SW said that the P60 G2 primer needs to be top coated..."

Not wanting to be the bearer of bad news, I didn't mention the SW P60 G2 wash primer. It's not a sealer like the AKZO or other two part epoxies. It's moisture permeable, that's why it need's to be top coated. I was going to go quick build with the remainder of my AC until I found this out. I've also heard reports of the wash primer flaking and coming off in sheets. If your not a fan of primer then it does not make a difference, just treat it as if it's bare metal and move on.

Mike
 
For those who are curious, the empennage inside square footage is around 243 sq. ft. A 1 mil coating of AKZO will set you back about 2.5 lbs., I estimated high at 3 to 4.

I made an error in a previous post and forgot to double up on the wing skins for primer coverage. The weight of the primer inside the wing's is closer to 3.5 lbs. not 2lbs.. Still works out to be about 7 lbs. total for priming everything inside the AC.

Mike
 
"...I've also heard reports of the wash primer flaking and coming off in sheets?"

I have the QB Fuse and Wings and have not experienced this at all. In fact, it is d@#n near impossible to get the primer off!

Anyway, after investing many, many hours of prep and priming, and then looking at my 1957 C-172, that was never primed, during the last annual, my views on priming have changed. In the beginning, I was all for it. Now, not so much?

Again, do you want an airplane that will last 50 years, or 100 years?
 
I would not be happy if I spent all that time to prime and then it falls off. I am looking into some two part epoxy primers, we will want her to last as long as possible so we can hand it down to the kids.:)
 
I agree with the last post and pass on the primer. My last 2 RV's were not primed. Same with my 1953 Bonanza and 61 Cessna and they still look clean. As far as blue plastic protecting the aluminum the very first thing my painter did was take a sander to all the surfaces dentin to be painted so what was the point in preventing scuffing anyway?
You will love your -10 once flying.
 
MrMoisture said:
...so what was the point in preventing scuffing anyway? ...
Click to expand...

This is the point:;)
polish_pix.jpg
 
Miles,

A polished plane is beautiful, but that is a lot of work in its self.

The wife and I would like to see your 7, is it at the airport?
 
Adam.

I'm working on the fuselage at home, the wings and empennage are at the airport keeping my 170 company. I sent you an email with my contact info.

I look forward to meeting you!
 
Pretty cool picture. We had a 1956 C-172 that we decided to polish?

Looked beautiful! Problem was we had to pay a local high school kid to come out twice a week and keep it that way?

TONS of work...
 
My riveting looks pretty good compared to what I've seen, but not good enough to consider polished metal.
 
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