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SB 14-01-31; RV-6, 7, 8

RV-6A
First flight Nov 2012
208 hours
IO-360-B1B w/Pmags
Hartzell BA CS
(Very) occasional grass
Lots of aerobatics, frequently to 4g
No notches
No cracks
 
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-8A N192NM SB Inspections

Did both inspections yesterday - no cracks.

Inyokern CA (IYK)
IO-360 180 HP - 1 mag;1 Lightspeed Ignition
391 Hrs Total Time in 2 1/2 years
Never been on grass
Try to pull at least 3 g's and go upside down every solo flight (one of the benies of flying in the middle of nowhere)
 
NO CRACKS

RV-6
Tail built 1988
First flight 2012
Total time. 125
Lyc 0-360
Hartzell CS
No Acro
Some grass
No notches
No cracks


Doug McMullin
RV-6. N262DM
Ottawa, Ks
 
SB Inspections HS and elevator

RV6A
First flight 8-20-97
total time 1731 hours
Not builder
Last 500 hours since I have owned a/c no acro, no grass, no dirt
Previous usage unknown
O-360 A1A
Hartzell Contant Speed Prop

No notches
No cracks after careful inspection both SB's
 
No Cracks

RV-6A
First flight 2000
Total time 800
Lyc 0-320
Sensenich FP
Lots of acro and formation
Lots of grass in the last 7 years, occasional before that
No notches
No cracks in tailplane or elevator
A couple of slightly loose jam nuts (1/8 turn max)

Pete
 
No cracks, both SB's

This is my first post to the VAF website and the RV community since purchasing a flying RV-7 in March of 2013. After inspection using a magnifying borescope, and with the gracious help and critical eyes of my friends at Parkside Airpark (WA87), RV builders Jon Friedemann and Dan Miller, I can report that we found no cracks in either of the separate areas specifically referred to in Van?s Service Bulletin numbers 14-01-31 and 14-02-05. Following is information on my airplane for the database being developed for these SB?s.

RV-7 completed in 2008
Non-builder 2nd owner, purchased in March 2013
IO-360 EXP, 210 HP
Hartzell Blended Airfoil CS prop
369 hours TT as of February 2014
Mild acro <4 G's
Often push back on HS
Primarily operated on paved runways
Has relief notches
No cracks, both SB's
 
Steve RV7 said:
This is my first post to the VAF website and the RV community since purchasing a flying RV-7 in March of 2013. After inspection using a magnifying borescope, and with the gracious help and critical eyes of my friends at Parkside Airpark (WA87), RV builders Jon Friedemann and Dan Miller, I can report that we found no cracks in either of the separate areas specifically referred to in Van?s Service Bulletin numbers 14-01-31 and 14-02-05. Following is information on my airplane for the database being developed for these SB?s.

RV-7 completed in 2008
Non-builder 2nd owner, purchased in March 2013
IO-360 EXP, 210 HP
Hartzell Blended Airfoil CS prop
369 hours TT as of February 2014
Mild acro <4 G's
Often push back on HS
Primarily operated on paved runways
Has relief notches
No cracks, both SB's
Click to expand...

I would also note that this was done with paint removed and a high power boroscope that allows you to examine the edge of the relief notch, not just the surface of the sheet.
I think careful inspection might mean different things to different people. I would hazard a guess that many who reported no cracks are simply not seeing an obvious crack and moving on. Walt warned of this earlier in this thread, but with hundreds of posts, things get lost....
At this level of inspection, even if a crack is found, is it the type of crack the SB is all about? Was it caused by stress or fatigue?
Drill a few holes in some .032 material, examine the edge of them under high power magnification and tell me you won't find a crack here or there. T3 temper is quite brittle.
 
No cracks

N729PG RV7A
No cracks
Notched
No acro
Paved runways only
180 hrs TTSN (first flight 1 April 2012)
Lycomong 0 320 D1A
Sensenich FP prop
 
Maybe we should also be asking how much up-elevator deflection pilots are holding during taxi and especially during the engine run-up.
Those of us with mirrors for use when flying formation and dogfighting can also observe how the horizontal stabilizer dances at high power settings on the ground when the elevator is deflected up.
IIRC, Cessna had problems with their 210 stabilizers cracking and the cause was traced to high-power settings on the ground.
My Dog Ship has 660 hours, modest acro and formation but twenty-six pilots have transitioned into tailwheel in it so it has seen more than its share of rough handling plus it has been on its back once.
O-320, Sensenich FP, one tiny, very-new looking crack on upper right-hand corner of stabilizer front spar, no notches.
Have been running engine at full-power on the ground several times in the last month while troubleshooting other issues.
Service kit has arrived, may hold off installing it to see what the Engineers at Van's come up with.
 
No Cracks - Both SB's

RV-7 S/N 72555
Completed AUG 2009
400 TT
IO-360-M1
Hartzell BA
Lots of grass.
Lots of short rough strips.
Some Mild Acro
Notches per plans - I remember doing a second set of front spars as wasn't happy with the first notches circa 2005.
 
Guessing about whether other owners can detect cracks or not

"I would hazard a guess that many who reported no cracks are simply not seeing an obvious crack and moving on."

This comment was made a couple of replies ago.

Really?

I do not agree with your hazardous guess. I think RV owners after reading the extensive comments on this subject know where to look, how to look, what to do to prepare the surface for inspection etc, particularly after some earlier comments that some of the early inspections did not detect a "not so obvious" crack. Many owners are bringing an extra set of eyes into the inspection process, photos, magnification, borescopes etc to ensure any "not so obvious" cracks are not missed.

My a/c luckily did not have any cracks but I could post the pictures I took to prove it, if I knew how.
 
dabney said:
"I would hazard a guess that many who reported no cracks are simply not seeing an obvious crack and moving on."

This comment was made a couple of replies ago.

Really?

I do not agree with your hazardous guess. I think RV owners after reading the extensive comments on this subject know where to look, how to look, what to do to prepare the surface for inspection etc, particularly after some earlier comments that some of the early inspections did not detect a "not so obvious" crack. Many owners are bringing an extra set of eyes into the inspection process, photos, magnification, borescopes etc to ensure any "not so obvious" cracks are not missed.

My a/c luckily did not have any cracks but I could post the pictures I took to prove it, if I knew how.
Click to expand...

Yes - really. This comment came after I assisted in an inspection AFTER, they had already reported "no cracks". They are removing the paint now to re-inspect. I do not expect them to find anything..... their build is top notch.
I did not "hazard" a guess, so I should not have worded it as such, and I should not have said "many". I certainly did not mean to offend you or anybody else.
From my past experiences, RV owners are not much different than anybody else, and with the long, long posting, it would be very easy to miss the prior comments you mentioned.
If my comments send one person back to inspect and that one person finds something different, it was worth reminding people.
 
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No cracks

N747JG RV-8
No cracks (close-up HiRes photos)
No notches
Mild acro, less than 4 g's
Paved runways
590 hrs TT (first flight July 2008)
Lycoming (Barrett) I0-360-X 215 hp 10.1 pistons
Dual P-Mags
WhirlWind 200RV CS prop - professionally balanced

Regularly back the airplane and steer into the hangar using the empennage

Jim Gray
www.rmrairshows.com
 
Starting over

I had a twisted aileron and tried to drill out the rivets to save the skeleton but after a few rivet holes enlarged I threw it all in the scrap aluminum pile in the corner and ordered a complete new aileron kit. I do feel for you all who find the cracks in the H.S. parts. I felt the worst part was re-painting.:(
 
I have no cracks....or flt hrs, still under construction, but still, I drilled mine all apart this weekend and waiting for the parts to come in. No rivet holes were harmed. 4 Hrs
 
Thanks!

Building a 7. And I am the 3rd owner of a 6 purchased last summer with about 1,000 hours. My understanding is the builder worked for Gulfstream and used their paint system. Beautiful craftsmanship and paint (very tough) throughout - including on the parts that require inspection.

I was stumped on how to proceed, but posts to this thread clued me in. Planning to use Methylene Chloride based stripper (nasty, but won't harm aluminum), Q-tips, and plastic or wooden scrapers to remove the paint for a proper inspection with a magnifier or camera (borescope). I will report back with results.

Kudos to Van's for their quick follow up to develop and publish these SB's. And a special thanks to RVBuilder2002 (Scott) for his hard work to keep up with this forum, and for his patient and thorough answers to the sometimes "tedious" questions and comments. Keep up the good work!

While I'm at it, I can't say enough about this website and these forums. Way to go Doug Reeves for having the vision, skills, and tenacity to make it happen!
 
No Cracks

I-RVBL RV-7
No cracks
notches as plan
Mild acro
Paved runways 10% , Grass 90%
110 hrs TT (first flight April 2013)
Lycoming 0-360-A1a
Hartzel-Tonini CS prop - professionally balanced

Regularly back the airplane and steer into the hangar using the empennage
 
n747jg said:
Regularly back the airplane and steer into the hangar using the empennage
Click to expand...
Well stop it, then! :D

Use the tailwheel / spring, either in your mitt (I do) or via a tow bar!
The spring is designed to take the weight of the aircraft, in side loads as well as vertical ones.

Just because RVs are tough as old boots there's no need to treat one like an old boot!
 
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49clipper

No notches, no cracks, 325.0 hrs/light acro, less than 3.5 g's, RV-6, O-320,
90% grass.

so what is the tally so far on cracks?
 
Quite a long thread, and have only went through half of it thus far. The SB states to ?Clean the area and remove any paint, overspray or primer that could hide a crack.? The pic that Van uses in the SB shows the crack without them removing the primer. Also noticed quite a few taking pics stating no cracks found, which didn?t bother to remove paint/primer either.
 
Step 13 Question

I don't understand why enlarging the forward top most holes of the flanges of HS-405 from #40 to #27 in step nr. 13 of the SB.
Those holes aren't anymore for any good after the SB fix, are they? I can't see from the drawings.
I rather don't want to enlarge them, 'cause they are already a tiny bit out of MED tolerance.
The most obvious reason I can imagine of, is to eliminate the 3/32 dimple around that holes. But why bother?

any ideas on that?

I probably should add that I haven't riveted the skin on the HS yet. Lucky me :rolleyes: .So maybe that is why I don't understand the reason for step 13 yet.
 
There is a specific reason.

magiccarpet said:
I don't understand why enlarging the forward top most holes of the flanges of HS-405 from #40 to #27 in step nr. 13 of the SB.
Those holes aren't anymore for any good after the SB fix, are they? I can't see from the drawings.
I rather don't want to enlarge them, 'cause they are already a tiny bit out of MED tolerance.
The most obvious reason I can imagine of, is to eliminate the 3/32 dimple around that holes. But why bother?

any ideas on that?

I probably should add that I haven't riveted the skin on the HS yet. Lucky me :rolleyes: .So maybe that is why I don't understand the reason for step 13 yet.
Click to expand...
After the inboard spar flange gets trimmed, there is a gap between the rib and the skin at the location of this hole. If a rivet is installed as is, it can suck the skin inward and the rib outward. Undesirable for both.
Structurally there is very little benefit having them riveted together, so the hole gets enlarged to allow filling the skin hole with a rivet, but not attach it to the rib.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
After the inboard spar flange gets trimmed, there is a gap between the rib and the skin at the location of this hole. If a rivet is installed as is, it can suck the skin inward and the rib outward. Undesirable for both.
Structurally there is very little benefit having them riveted together, so the hole gets enlarged to allow filling the skin hole with a rivet, but not attach it to the rib.
Click to expand...

That makes perfect sense. Thanks a lot for your explanation
 
RV-7 290 hrs
Notches per plans
No cracks

75 % pavement
20 % grass
5 % snow-covered ice rwy's

Lots of std acro maneuvers (max +4)
Lots of formation

10 % at MTOW

Superior IO-360
MT C/S prop dynamically balanced

Moved with towbar on TW
 
RV7 225 hours
No cracks
Builder # 71313
Notches per the plans dimensions
Mild acro
-5% grass
Always pushed around with the empennage. :mad: I'm changing that habit...
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
After the inboard spar flange gets trimmed, there is a gap between the rib and the skin at the location of this hole. If a rivet is installed as is, it can suck the skin inward and the rib outward. Undesirable for both.
Structurally there is very little benefit having them riveted together, so the hole gets enlarged to allow filling the skin hole with a rivet, but not attach it to the rib.
Click to expand...

Could you just use the cut out flange piece and use it for a spacer with a rivet?
 
tracy said:
Could you just use the cut out flange piece and use it for a spacer with a rivet?
Click to expand...

You obviously haven't cut your flanges off yet :)
They are not pretty. I needed a right angle dremmel.

And you're not really complying with the SB if you add your own twist.
Minor as it may be, it wouldn't fly in the certified world. No pun intended.

Mark
 
Called Vans this morning inquiring about the repair kit. Apparently they sold out of the first batch pretty quick. Next week they should have the next batch ready to ship out she said. Just curious how many folk are doing the mod?
 
Yep, I ordered the kit, like you Bret I'm going to do the mod to my finished but unmounted HS. I figure if it gets too messed up I can build another one before I match drill it to the fuselage!
 
I was going to order one and then heard that they had stopped shipping them because Van's engineers were putting their heads together... Sounded like there may be a change coming. Maybe Scott can comment whether that is true or not? If not, i'll be ordering the kit pretty quickly.
 
Snowflake said:
I was going to order one and then heard that they had stopped shipping them because Van's engineers were putting their heads together... Sounded like there may be a change coming. Maybe Scott can comment whether that is true or not? If not, i'll be ordering the kit pretty quickly.
Click to expand...

Hum...no word of a .....change order for the mod, just a delay of getting the next BATCH out?
 
bret said:
Hum...no word of a .....change order for the mod, just a delay of getting the next BATCH out?
Click to expand...

I talked to them and asked if there maybe another solution than already exist. They told me that there is no other engineering work is being done other than including this part into the regular kit.
 
Bevan said:
I was thinking the same thing. My spar web looks the same as in the picture above. No notches per MY plans (dated Feb 28/01). Instructions say to "trim to fit"

Bevan
Click to expand...

My older kit has the same narrow spar web as shown in my previous pic. Hopefully this will avoid any future cracks!
 
Pilot Dog Ship said:
It was post #319 that I may have mis-interpreted.
I read it as there might be a different type of fix coming down the pipe from Engineering...
Click to expand...
I read it that way too, but it sounds from later posts like the current one is the only fix though, so I'll get over to Vans and order the kit.
 
Inspection results

RV-7A
500 hours
Notches yes
Cracks no

IO-360
2 blade aluminum C/S MT (now replaced by 3 blade MT)
mild aero
paved runways
 
No Cracks

RV-8A N698BS
470 hours
No Notches, No Cracks.
IO-360
2 blade aluminum C/S MT
No aero
Almost exclusively paved runways

:D
 
Got a break

RV7a
915 hours
0-360 with 2 Blade hartzel CS
No notches
Very little acro
Very little grass strip

No cracks, HS or Elevator spar
 
No Cracks

RV-8 C-GNHK Ser # 80427
280 hours
No notches, no cracks
IO-360-A1B6 with 3 blade MT prop
Used almost exclusively on paved runways, with very occasional grass strips.
Occasional aerobatics.
 
Another inspection

Inspected hangar partner's aircraft today:

RV8 C-GLZR Bald Eagle
Completed 2007
300 hours
O-360
Sensenich FP
Moderate positive G acro
Mostly pavement
No notches
No cracks
 
no cracks

RV-8 655CL
450 TT
IO-360A1B6
Hartzell C/S

Go upside down or a loop almost every flight
Std acro up to 4 G
Mostly paved but 5% grass
almost always use tow bar

no notches
no cracks - stab or elevator :)
 
No cracks both s/b's 9855J

RV-6 kit no. 22300
147 hrs
Very limited grass rwy ops lots of bounces on pavement though.
O-320 fp Sensenich
No notches
No cracks anywhere.
 
I earlier asked what methods folks were using to remove the paint for inspection.

Mine is PPG epoxy primer, base, and DCU clear, which is pretty tough. What worked was rolling a strip of rag about 1" wide into a roll about the diameter of a cigarette butt. Soaked it with MEK, stuffed it into the corner, put a piece of aluminum tape over it, and came back in 15~20 minutes. Worked well; the trapped vapor and long soak time made a nice soft patch of paint which came right off with just a little rubbing. MEK isn't going to cause a corrosion issue later.

For the next one I'll try a cotton ball.

35a16k9.jpg


I had looked last week with paint in place and found nothing. With the paint removed I spotted what looked like a crack to the naked eye. However, it is worth grabbing a camera...a high-resolution photo says no:

2rfvhgz.jpg


RV-8
325 hrs
390, Hartzell CS
acro, grass
no notches
no cracks
 
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Thanks Dan, I did not think that MEK would eat through clear! I best keep that stuff away from my paint job.
 
RV8 stab crack

Latest Vans answers.
As of this morning 17 Feb, send time for the -8 kit is "one week". Also talked to a tech rep; "There is no additional fix in the making". 'Can not see advantage to using blind rivets'.
I used 2 hrs to dismantle the tail. Vans tech rep says 8-10hrs to make mod. I guess 4 hours to reinstall.

RV-8, #620
550 hrs over 13 years
Gentlemans aerobatics
Hard surface, 190HP C.S. prop
One small crack upper right corner, no reliefs.

Cheers,
Ed


.
 
Completed second SB inspection on elevator spar and no cracks found. IMHO, for aluminum to crack it has to flex, and for these parts to flex, either the elevator hinge line must not be dead straight, or some heavy loads are moving the stabilizer tips up and down, or both things in combination are happening. For those who found cracks in either spar, I wonder if viewing down their hinge holes they are perfectly concentric.

LeRoy Johnston, Ohio

RV-6A
O-360, 180HP
Hartzell
SN 25764, first flew 2006
765 Hrs TT
No acro
99 percent on pavement
No cracks, no notch on first SB inspection
 
Inspection Results

RV-80094
705 Hours TT
No relief holes
No cracks in HS or Elevator Spars
50% grass /pavement occasional aerobatics
 
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