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RV-7/7a Plan Gottcha's

Same here...

Here's a gotcha for builders going with the horizontal air induction system snorkel. If you follow the directions on installing the baffles, you'll end up with a beautifully trimmed set of baffles, including the front-left inlet ramp (CB-1002A). Then, when you go to install the snorkel, you'll notice step 1 says "NOTE: Do not trim the length of part 2 Left Front Inlet Floor at this time". Of course they are talking about one of the baffle parts you just trimmed. Save $25+shipping by not trimming that piece.


I did exactly the same... :mad:

I have a beautyfully trimmed CB-1002A that fits perfectly to the cowl, but it's too short now...
Thinking about a way around it, maybe by adding a doubler to increase its lenght???
 
I did exactly the same... :mad:

I have a beautyfully trimmed CB-1002A that fits perfectly to the cowl, but it's too short now...
Thinking about a way around it, maybe by adding a doubler to increase its lenght???

Don't be surprised if you have to go a little off script in this area. My snorkel was a little outboard which changed the screw pattern and a few other things up. Just do something that makes it work and the baffles can seal against. You could go to a bigger length to get it like the plans but it may include modifying the snorkel for starter clearance.

Checkout post 534 here.
 
Thanks Jereme for the link to photos, it really helps!!
I notice that your CB-1002A is also short so there,s no front "lip". And you put an angle below the front filter overhang.

Did you you leave that as is??
 
Thanks Jereme for the link to photos, it really helps!!
I notice that your CB-1002A is also short so there,s no front "lip". And you put an angle below the front filter overhang.

Did you you leave that as is??

Yep, it's flying just like you see in the pictures. Seems to be working quite well. I did put some RTV in the corners so the baffle material could seal a little better as it forms a radius right there. Don't worry about bending the filleted piece of metal like it shows in the plans, if it's horizontal induction that piece gets eliminated as you can tell.
 
Panel platenut strips

Ok. Don't make this mistake. These two strips (photos) are riveted to the top skin. They each have platenuts for screws holding the panel. They are not symmetrical with respect to the screws but they are symmetrical to the rivet holes so they can be installed on the wrong sides. Yep. Did it. They were riveted some time ago. Windshield is long since installed. So imagine my frustration when I try to attach the panel and there's no platenuts behind 10 holes! Oh Bother!
I drilled out the platenuts. Fabricated a doubler strip and attached the platenuts in the correct locations.
Do as I say. Don't do as I do!
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Ok. Don't make this mistake. These two strips (photos) are riveted to the top skin. They each have platenuts for screws holding the panel. They are not symmetrical with respect to the screws but they are symmetrical to the rivet holes so they can be installed on the wrong sides. Yep. Did it. They were riveted some time ago. Windshield is long since installed. So imagine my frustration when I try to attach the panel and there's no platenuts behind 10 holes! Oh Bother!
I drilled out the platenuts. Fabricated a doubler strip and attached the platenuts in the correct locations.
Do as I say. Don't do as I do!
View attachment 9913
View attachment 9914
I’m attaching theses this weekend. Thanks for the heads up!!
 
FWF lines

Probably not a gotcha but I wish I had listened to my friend Jereme and deleted all the oil and fuel lines. Granted I'm off reservation with the RV10 oil cooler mounted on the firewall but the VA-136 fuel line is not a good fit with the new mount and gear. I wish I had relocated the contactors toward the starboard side. I'm sure Vans has a reason for them located so close to the fuel line.
So, as usual, Tom @ TS Flightlines to the rescue. In addition to a nice conversation, we swapped some photos and measurements and new lines are on the way. Thanks Tom.
 
Probably not a gotcha but I wish I had listened to my friend Jereme and deleted all the oil and fuel lines. Granted I'm off reservation with the RV10 oil cooler mounted on the firewall but the VA-136 fuel line is not a good fit with the new mount and gear. I wish I had relocated the contactors toward the starboard side. I'm sure Vans has a reason for them located so close to the fuel line.
So, as usual, Tom @ TS Flightlines to the rescue. In addition to a nice conversation, we swapped some photos and measurements and new lines are on the way. Thanks Tom.

You won't regret it. I used em for all my lines. P.S. You can also get your data plate and fuel caps engraved by Steve when the time comes if you want.
 
Panel cut

You won't regret it. I used em for all my lines. P.S. You can also get your data plate and fuel caps engraved by Steve when the time comes if you want.

Next phone call. He also cuts panels. Tom said he would send a draft CAD drawing to fine tune then cut the panel to the final drawing. Saves me drawing from scratch.
 
Real homebuilder

Next phone call. He also cuts panels. Tom said he would send a draft CAD drawing to fine tune then cut the panel to the final drawing. Saves me drawing from scratch.

Only real homebuilders make their panels with a drill and file.
 

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Contactors

Why does Vans want the contactors so close to the fuel line?
I put them exactly where plans show. It's interesting that the plans don't show both on the same plan. Fuel line doesn't show up on the contactor plan or vice versa. I'm sure I could have missed something. Wouldn't be the first time. I trusted they had a good reason and now with the engine and new gear, that area is super tight and the fuel line is very close to a power wire. Is there a reason?
I could easily have fabricated a doubler for the area under the battery. Oh bother!
Unless there's a reason, I'm moving them before I start running heavy wires.

Can someone give me a reason why I shouldn't move them to the open area under the battery?
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I agree

I agree they are really close and seems to be no reason expect the contactor has one screw thru the firewall angle support.
I was thinking about moving mine too, but the contactor is only hot when the starter is energized, so it is not a safety of flight issue. And it is covered with a boot. I am going to add a insulator to the fuel line too, maybe even a spot of rtv just to make sure a nut doesnt fall down there, get lodged, and wear thru the boot/ insulator.
 
I agree they are really close and seems to be no reason expect the contactor has one screw thru the firewall angle support.
I was thinking about moving mine too, but the contactor is only hot when the starter is energized, so it is not a safety of flight issue. And it is covered with a boot.

Bingo bango. Larry, I wasn't overly thrilled either but as long as there is some amount of gap it is really of no concern. Wire only hot when starter engaged and should have a boot on it. If you went with a 45 fitting on your fuel line right out of that bulkhead fitting it will get out of the way quickly. I'm guessing that is what Tom suggested to you, I think he was the one that made the suggestion to me as well.

Not the best pictures but here you go. There is a little gap between them but not a lot.
 

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Contactors

Thanks John, Jereme. Gonna ponder this for a bit. I agree it's unlikely but if it happens, it's fuel and a ton of sparks. Makes me feel like a long tail cat in a room full of rockin' chairs!
Jereme
What is the marine power unit near the battery?
It looks like if I move them over starboard a few inches, the positive will be a direct run straight down to the Master.
 
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Just me

I am using 40A for the alt and 35 A for main bus. I only have a pad mounted B&C alt, no big pulley driven one. ( my main bus wire and alt wire do notnhave the Adel clamps on yet)
 

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Current limiter

I am using 40A for the alt and 35 A for main bus. I only have a pad mounted B&C alt, no big pulley driven one. ( my main bus wire and alt wire do notnhave the Adel clamps on yet)

I get the alternator current limiter.
What is on the inside on the main bus? Breakers, VPX or Aircraft Control Module?
Just curious. I plan to use the ACM.
 
ANL fuses

Ok. Why? What amperage?
I have 2

60A for the main 60A alternator
40A for the backup 40A alternator...
For example, here's a photo of the 40A, without its cover installed.
As to why, here's what Dan H wisely proposed as a reason for the ANL:
It protects wiring. Specific to an alternator ANL or breaker, it protects the aircraft from an electrical fire (melting wire and burning insulation) due to available battery amperage, given a B-lead short among the collection of hot, vibrating parts in the engine compartment.
 

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I get the alternator current limiter.
What is on the inside on the main bus? Breakers, VPX or Aircraft Control Module?
Just curious. I plan to use the ACM.

here is my schematic. FYI.

The ANL protects the alt wiring and also the wiring going thru the firewall to the fuse block. Dont want smoking wires aft of the firewall.
 

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Stuff

here is my schematic. FYI.

The ANL protects the alt wiring and also the wiring going thru the firewall to the fuse block. Dont want smoking wires aft of the firewall.

Thanks John
Ok folks. Cough it up.
What else don't I need that I don't know? No wait.
What else do I need that I know? No wait.
What else... Oh bother!
Just give me the scoop please.
Feel like I'm sucking a Sweet Cream Malt through a cracked straw.:D
 
Mine are both 60A fuses for the reasons mentioned above. Many argue they aren't needed because the wire will arc any shorts with the firewall until the metal is gone and no more arcing. Ummmm... I'm not comfortable with that. Hence I used two of them. One for alternator and one for the main line into the cockpit. You will want to do a search on this topic as there are many different ways a guy can hook it all up especially when you throw a shunt into the mix. The Dynon manual shows the different ways the shunt can be positioned.
 
Brass bar

Vans plns show a brass bar between the two contactors. I can't find it on my inventory or parts.
Is it a local hardware store item?

Is it permissible to use a bar to connect to the ANL and or Shunt?
 
Copper

I am using a VPX-Pro and elected not to use a shunt per Vertical Power installation options.

But here is what I did. The ANL's are for main and standby B&C alternators.

I used .125 copper sheet obtained economically from the usual big online vendors (not ACS, although that will certainly work) and fabricated what is in the picture.
 

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Copper

I am using a VPX-Pro and elected not to use a shunt per Vertical Power installation options.

But here is what I did. The ANL's are for main and standby B&C alternators.

I used .125 copper sheet obtained economically from the usual big online vendors (not ACS, although that will certainly work) and fabricated what is in the picture.

Copper. Sorry. I knew. Just typed the wrong metal.
Very neat!
Exactly what I planned. Thanks for the confirmation.
 
Mixture bellcrank

Here's another small Gotcha. Photo=1,000 words
The C-670 Bushing is pressed into VA-165 Mixture Bellcrank.
When the bellcrank is bolted to VA-164 Mixture Bracket, it doesn't freely rotate unless the bolt is left loose enough so it rotates. The result is friction against the flanges. Not correct in my mind.
The bushing should be captured by the bolt between the flanges so the bellcrank can rotate freely on the bushing.
Maybe not the correct fix, but I drove out the bushing. Then the Mixture Bellcrank was reamed to 3/8" and polished. A tiny bit was removed from each side of the bellcrank so the bushing was a few thou wider. A bit of Lubriplate applied. Slip the parts back together. Now when the bolt is tightened, the bellcrank rotates either way freely.
Yes, I scratched it a little. I have touch up paint.

Edit...
Ditch the Vans bushing. Every time I reassembled and tightened the bolt, the bushing swelled and the bellcrank froze up. Go to the local hardware store aviation department and but a steel spacer bushing. I got one 1/4" ID X 3/8" OD and almost exactly the right length for less than $2. A little sanding and polishing and the bolt can be torqued to spec. Bellcrank rotates like butta!
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It won't show when flying...

Yes, I scratched it a little. I have touch up paint.
View attachment 10659

Good catch Larry!!!
Don't worry about the scratches, how many times do I have to remind myself that I'm not building a 35000$ Swiss Watch...
...wait a minute... my project will cost way more...:eek:
It won't show at cruise speed and altitude... :rolleyes:
 
Scratches

Good catch Larry!!!
Don't worry about the scratches, how many times do I have to remind myself that I'm not building a 35000$ Swiss Watch...
...wait a minute... my project will cost way more...:eek:
It won't show at cruise speed and altitude... :rolleyes:

Doesn't bother me. That's for the builders that always comment about stuff that doesn't matter just to point out the mistake. Figured I would save them the effort. :D
 
Quick question, I'm also using a VPX will not be using the Garmin supplied shunt on the B lead... wonder what I want to measure with it? Thinking battery state charge / discharge, ideas? Single B&C 60a in my case.
 
Looks like I get to move my throttle cable mount over... installed per Van's with stock exhaust on I(O)360-M1B...

Untitled by Dave Hock, on Flickr

Untitled by Dave Hock, on Flickr

This is too close and can't really even get the heat shield in place. I will attempt to flip the bracket over as others have done.
 
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Looks like I get to move my throttle cable mount over... installed per Van's with stock exhaust on I(O)360-M1B...

Untitled by Dave Hock, on Flickr

Untitled by Dave Hock, on Flickr

This is too close and can't really even get the heat shield in place. I will attempt to flip the bracket over as others have done.

Something else to keep an eye on Dave is the two exhaust pipes where they cross underneath. Both mine and another -7 had made contact with one another and actually rubbed an oval shaped area. One of them rubbed all the way through and actually had a pin sized hole. Sent back to vetterman who took care of it.
 
Dave-
I had a similar problem and made a new bracket o replace the one Vans sent. The new one elevated the came up closer to the sump. You can see in your pictures there is some space available above the cable now. I used that to give me more room off the exhaust.

I made the new bracket first as a template out of 032 aluminum in order to get my dimensions right (took 2-3 trys), then ordered some 4130 (I believe I used .062) and mad it from that.

I don't seem to have any clear pictures of it on hand but I will be at the airport this weekend and will take some if you like.

-Ivan
 
Bracket

Dave-
I had a similar problem and made a new bracket o replace the one Vans sent. The new one elevated the came up closer to the sump. You can see in your pictures there is some space available above the cable now. I used that to give me more room off the exhaust.

I made the new bracket first as a template out of 032 aluminum in order to get my dimensions right (took 2-3 trys), then ordered some 4130 (I believe I used .062) and mad it from that.

I don't seem to have any clear pictures of it on hand but I will be at the airport this weekend and will take some if you like.

-Ivan

I would love to see photos! Same problem.
 
I would love to see photos! Same problem.

Yup - same problem on my IO-360-A1B6; I also didn't like the angle/routing of the cable.

I did the same thing as prior poster -- make a new bracket out of 18ga 4130 plate. Move the cable hole over closer to the screw bosses and closer to the sump.
 

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Simple fix, I just flipped the standard Van's bracket over to other side (with a little bending to clear the pan) and put the bolt and spacers on on the throttle arm on the other side also:

Untitled by Dave Hock, on Flickr

Untitled by Dave Hock, on Flickr

Tons of clearance now to the hot exhaust pipes!
 
Here's how I shielded my throttle cable from exhaust. Works OK through 90-hours. I have a Superior cold air sump. so I had to fabricate an additional plate to use the Superior boss with the Van's bracket.

If I remember correctly, I did have to warp or flare out the sides of the shields a little bit due to exhaust pipe bends.
 

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Throttle bracket

Here are some pictures of my homemade throttle bracket. Like other's the Vans supplied bracket positioned the cable too low. I made this out of 4130 sheet. It positions the cable higher, closer to the sump. As an added benefit, it gave the cable a slightly better angle relative to the linkage.
Haven't flown yet, but I have run the engine on the ground and no problems so far.

Mine is a factory Lycoming IO-360-M1B bought through Vans.
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U-00713C, DWG-C1, Nose Wheel Fairing Bracket

U-00713C, DWG-C1, Nose Wheel Fairing Bracket
They are loose if you follow Vans plans. The vibration couldn't be a good thing. Here's the fix.
The nose pant brackets are fixed.
If you haven't bored the forward holes to Vans dimension, just carefully bore them so the flat washer is a tight fit then add a stainless washer outside so the lock washer and hex bolt hold everything tight.
If you did bore the holes...
Buy washers. Two grade 8-5/16" washers and two 3/8" stainless washers. The grade 8 were ground down to fit tight in the forward holes then bored to 3/8 ID. That helped a lot. The stainless were placed over the holes and under the lock washers so the bolts would lock it down. Now the brackets are solid.


Edit...
I read the plans wrong. The 11/16" hole is drilled in the pant for the tow bar. Duh! The bracket is bolted with the socket head screws. Watch the excess screw protruding in toward the tire. I added a washer or two to move the bolts outboard a little.
View attachment 27890
 
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U-00713C, DWG-C1, Nose Wheel Fairing Bracket
They are loose if you follow Vans plans. The vibration couldn't be a good thing. Here's the fix.
The nose pant brackets are fixed.
If you haven't bored the forward holes to Vans dimension, just carefully bore them so the flat washer is a tight fit then add a stainless washer outside so the lock washer and hex bolt hold everything tight.
If you did bore the holes...
Buy washers. Two grade 8-5/16" washers and two 3/8" stainless washers. The grade 8 were ground down to fit tight in the forward holes then bored to 3/8 ID. That helped a lot. The stainless were placed over the holes and under the lock washers so the bolts would lock it down. Now the brackets are solid.
View attachment 27890

Okay Larry, I'm confused again. Are you saying you modified how the black bolt in front holds everything with those new washers you made? Sorry this is taking so long but I'm wondering if our brackets are different somehow.

The problem I was referencing in our email chain is that the aft slots are ever so slightly loose and that is where I have a tiny bit of movement coming from.
 
Bracket

Okay Larry, I'm confused again. Are you saying you modified how the black bolt in front holds everything with those new washers you made? Sorry this is taking so long but I'm wondering if our brackets are different somehow.

The problem I was referencing in our email chain is that the aft slots are ever so slightly loose and that is where I have a tiny bit of movement coming from.

Yes. The hole Vans calls out is a few thou bigger than the washers. The were only a tiny bit loose but enough to vibrate. Vibration causes wear. I just made a washer that fit the hole then used a larger stainless washer over the bracket hole to allow the lock washer and bolt to hold the bracket firmly attached to the fork.

The aft slot on mine is also loose. No way to fix that without an accurate bushing. Fixing the forward hole tightened the bracket. No more vibration.

Edit...
I read the plans wrong. The 11/16" hole is drilled in the pant for the tow bar. Duh! The bracket is bolted with the socket head screws. Watch the excess screw protruding in toward the tire. I added a washer or two to move the bolts outboard a little.
 
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Bracket

Here's the problem. Notice the note to drill the forward hole 11/16". That's bigger than either washer so it's loose. You can't remove the bracket whithout removing the socket head cap screws anyway. Best solution would be to drill the holes 3/8" for the bolt.

Edit...
I read the plans wrong. The 11/16" hole is drilled in the pant for the tow bar. Duh! The bracket is bolted with the socket head screws. Watch the excess screw protruding in toward the tire. I added a washer or two to move the bolts outboard a little.

20220711_075618.jpg
 
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Would like to ask some clarification for "gotcha #14" (redoing the firewall work for the other components to be installed).

1. The gotcha mentions brake reservoir. However, DWG 19 seems to position such that it requires a two completely new holes (for AN3 bolts). So, doesn't really matter, could be done later with the same outcome.

2. The battery box. Do I understand correctly that per DWG 31A (tail-dragger), the battery box reuses 3 existing holes which need to be drilled up for the AN3 bolt. Again, other than removing existing rivets, no big deal, as the hole is upsized. The platenut go on the battery box mount.

3. The relays reuse two existing holes and add two more holes. However, in this case, the platenuts go aft, so this must be the place where you need to resort to counter-sinking if not doing it during an initial assembly, as mentioned in "gotcha #14". Existing holes are upsized to AN3, so, again, this part should be fine. Here if using NAS1097 rivets for platenuts, shouldn't make a difference because they require light counter-sinking anyway.


So, if using NAS1097 for the platenuts, this gotcha doesn't really impact the end result, only the frustration of removing perfectly fine rivets.

Am I correct?
 
Firewall

Correct on all with a couple of caveats.
When you prep for the battery box, use the holes in the box for reference. Vans calls out reuse of existing holes but they do not match perfectly. Hopefully yours will be perfect.
When you start drilling for the contactors, watch the post on the starter contactor. The injected model has the fuel line very close to the starter contactor. Easiest fix is to move the fuel fitting a little. Drawings are pretty close for everything else but I had to move the prop cable penetration a little because I installedd a firewall oil cooler and the scat wouldn't clear.
 
Got it.

But I see another "gotcha" here: the firewall doubler from OP-32 reuses two of the holes on the firewall. Since it goes to the front of the firewall, the firewall (ideally) should not be dimpled in these two holes (and stiffener behind the firewall should not be counter-sinked). Right?
 
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