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Tip: Riveting 101

I saw that about a month back and thought about posting it. Kinda neat. I'd never heard of the double dimple flush riveting method (around the 4min mark) where you use the rivet to form the dimple in .040" or less combined sheet thickness and a custom bucking die. I wonder if that method has fallen out of practice since this movie was made.
 
This video is how Brian and I taught ourselves to rivet when we first bought the kit. :)

Neither of us had ever riveted anything before and we didn't take a class. We just bought the toolbox practice kit, watched this video then went out in the shop and practiced until we were confident enough to start working on the air frame.
 
Oh oh! Never saw ANYTHING about using different dimple/counter sink angles for different sheets to make them nest correctly. :(. Hope my plane doesn't fall out of the sky.

Just checked Aircraft Spruce. I didn't even see any dimple dies other than 100 degrees. I'm assuming it has become normal to just dimple/CS everything at that angle?
 
Oh oh! Never saw ANYTHING about using different dimple/counter sink angles for different sheets to make them nest correctly. :(. Hope my plane doesn't fall out of the sky.

Just checked Aircraft Spruce. I didn't even see any dimple dies other than 100 degrees. I'm assuming it has become normal to just dimple/CS everything at that angle?

I had the same thought!!! Ten Thousand rivets rattling at speeds above 200kts. :)
 
Notice the Angles!

What's interesting to me is the 120 degree female die on the bottom sheet when double-dimpling, and the 110 degree c'sink on a thicker bottom sheet. Standard RV practice is using the same dimple die on both sheets, and the c'sink is 100 degrees. Some use tank dies on the second sheet to simulate (sort of) the 120 degree female die.

Using the same tooling for both sheets always bothered me; the film shows why. Also, I always c'sink deeper than a dimple would form. The need was obvious if you measure the diameter of the backside top dimple. The angles I couldn't measure, so it was a bit of guesswork.

I wonder what was Disney's reference. Handbooks I have don't go into this detail.

John Siebold
 
Cleaveland Tool sells Substructure dimple dies that create a slightly larger dimple under the normal sized dimple. Don't know if it also forms a different angle, but I'm sure it helps create a better fit.

http://www.cleavelandtool.com/Subst..._32-Rivet/productinfo/DIE4263SS/#.UxVm8vRdUXQ

Cleveland recommends using the tank dies as substructure dies under a standard die dimple. Their substructure dies are used under a tank die dimple. I used them on my tanks. Nice fit.
 
Strange... in their description of the Substructure die, they say this: "Used for substructure dimples where standard 4263 die is used on the skin."
 
dies

Strange... in their description of the Substructure die, they say this: "Used for substructure dimples where standard 4263 die is used on the skin."

I stand corrected.
After using all of them though, the substructure dimple is a bit too deep for a standard die dimple. It wiggles just a little. Using the tank dies the two parts fit tight.
 
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