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Nose Gear Quality Control Issue

JimMac

Active Member
I just received my new retro fit nose gear. In the attached photo, I have clamped the bottom mounting bracket to my flat granite counter top. This the bracket that bolts to the bottom of my fuselage. This photo shows how this bracket is not flat. My concerns are (1) since this mounting surface is not flat, will the bolt holes align with the plate nuts in the bottom of my fuselage and (2) I know I can push the gear leg vertically upward to force the plate to be flat so that I can start the bolts, but doesn’t that produce stress in the weld joint where the bracket is welded to the gear leg? Has anyone else had this issue? Should I ask VAN’S to send me another nose gear leg or am I being too picky? It seems to me that the nose gear is not an item you would want to introduce an extra stress in a weld. Now if I can figure out how to upload my photo.
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Sorry the image is sideways
 

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I had an issue that sounds similar on one of my replacements. A pic of yours would help. I was working with Tony on the phone support at Vans to help resolve it. The higher-ups at vans were not offering much help so Tony and I worked out the issue and came up with a resolution.

In all fairness this was back in October 2020 and Vans was shut down with the COVID, I was lucky to get any help.
 
Mine was warped worse. It is happening when they heat treat the assembly. I used a rubber mallet and backed up the plate on a hard rubber pad. I was able to get it almost perfectly flat working one side then the other. When finished the paint was still perfect.

Keep in mind the weld is not supposed to be 90 degrees to the tube, the fuselage / firewall is not 90 degrees. The weld angle should be correct since it is done in a jig.
 
Nose gear Quality Control

Ok. I thought about that but it still seems you are stressing the weld by forcing it flat by hammering it. I was a little afraid of trying that until I got some comments from other forum members.
 
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The weld should not need flattening only the sheet metal past the weld.

I would not use a hammer, only a rubber mallet with something pliable backing up the plate. A hammer will stretch the metal causing more warp.
 
Yes, seagull, I understand, but the act of hammering on the bracket to bend it downward is applying a torque at the weld. I was just afraid it might weaken the welding bond. It’s probably ok to do that. If it did weaken the weld, but not show as an external crack, you would never know it until it visibly cracked. I would be interested in seeing the opinions of some more folks on the subject of weld strength when your applying torques to it.
 
If you are bending it downward you are not supporting it properly. The plate angle to the leg should not need changing, it’s only the warp in the plate you are trying to remove.


If you are not happy with it I would absolutely ask for a replacement.
 
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Seagull, you are absolutely right! I believe if I can clamp the thing in a vise in the areas shown in this diagram, then hitting it with a rubber mallet will bend it until it is flat. No torque will reach the weld and the overall angle of the plate will not be changed.
Thanks for your input. You helped me think my way through it.
 
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John Young,
I have the same question. I don’t understand why we have to work on the part and modify it before it will fit properly.
 
I'm currently on the waiting list for that part, but I don't think I would want that one if I had to hammer it flat! I would contact Greg Hughes @ Van's and also a forum member here and see what he has to say. I have found him to be very helpful on getting answers and getting things done recently.. https://vansairforce.net/community/member.php?u=14981

Cheers,
 
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I'm currently on the waiting list for that part, but I don't think I would want that one if I had to hammer it flat!

I agree, a hammer should never be used to fix airplane parts,........ a mallet is a different tool.

My plane was AOG and I have an understanding of metal and feel comfortable with my skills, I did the work myself so I could get back in the air.

I was initially told by Vans (in lieu of sending a replacement) to tighten the screws and it will pull it flat. That would have put a lot of stress on the screws. When I realized the weld was not the issue I discussed it with Tony (flattening) and we decided it would not hurt it structurally to use a rubber mallet if the weld area was supported.

I am in no way suggesting you should do the work yourself, only sharing my experience.
 
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Drilling the holes for the nose gear made me cranky (especially when I decided not to sharpen the drill bits after the first hole!), but not nearly as cranky as the new plexiglass rear window, the stab/tab reinforcements, and especially the flaperon brace fix!
 
I agree, a hammer should never be used to fix airplane parts,........ a mallet is a different tool.

My plane was AOG and I have an understanding of metal and feel comfortable with my skills, I did the work myself so I could get back in the air.

I was initially told by Vans (in lieu of sending a replacement) to tighten the screws and it will pull it flat. That would have put a lot of stress on the screws. When I realized the weld was not the issue I discussed it with Tony (flattening) and we decided it would not hurt it structurally to use a rubber mallet if the weld area was supported.

I am in no way suggesting you should do the work yourself, only sharing my experience.

Come on Walt.. Do you really think I was suggesting the use of a hammer? I was using it as a verb.. I wouldn't want to hammer it flat with a mallet or any other appropriate tool until first speaking with someone at Van's...
 
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Come on Walt.. Do you really think I was suggesting the use of a hammer? I was using it as a verb.. I wouldn't want to hammer it flat with a mallet or any other appropriate tool until first speaking with someone at Van's...

Joe, when I post here it is to help others. Some readers may take your words literally, I was just clarifying, nothing personal.

Tony at Van's is who suggested flattening the plate with a mallet. I was apprehensive as you are but after some convincing tried it. My option was to wait for the upper management to approve a replacement then another month or two to get it shipped. This was my second leg after the first one was not bent to spec, (different thread). I really wanted to have the job behind me.
 
Joe, when I post here it is to help others. Some readers may take your words literally, I was just clarifying, nothing personal.

Tony at Van's is who suggested flattening the plate with a mallet. I was apprehensive as you are but after some convincing tried it. My option was to wait for the upper management to approve a replacement then another month or two to get it shipped. This was my second leg after the first one was not bent to spec, (different thread). I really wanted to have the job behind me.

Hopefully they’ll get it figured out by the time I get mine, probably much later this year.
 
Mine was warped worse. It is happening when they heat treat the assembly.

It is distortion from the welding, not heat treating. Warpage (rapidly cooling metal in the HAZ shrinks) during welding operations is quite common and good welders will compensate in the setup. If it were heat treated, it would not have bent; It would have cracked. With medium carbon steels like 4130, you need to be careful not to bend in the HAZ (heat affected zone), as that area WAS partially hardened during the welding operation and can crack.

hardened steel, even if tempered, is quite brittle and will crack easily if bending is attempted. Try bending a file (thought that is high carbon steel and therefore even less ductility) Spring steel like 1095 are different and still have flex after hardening.

Larry
 
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It is distortion from the welding, not heat treating.

I agree that welding can cause distortion issues but that is not the case in this instance.

This is indeed distortion that occurs during the heat treating process of the nose gear leg.

There is a rather elaborate fixture that each gear leg gets bolted into before it is put through the heat treat process.
When that process is complete, there is a variation from one leg to another in the level of distortion that occurs, but it happens to some degree in every one.
 
New gear leg

Well I just got mine.. Yes the mounting plate isn’t perfectly flat, but more concerning to me is the plate isn’t perpendicular to the gear leg. Is this normal? At the end of the mounting plate it’s 3/8” (about 6 degrees) from being perpendicular to the gear leg. Email sent to Van’s.. :confused:
 

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Steel is ductile enough that you can bend that plate flat without causing undue stress on the weld. The plate will yield locally just out away from the weld.

I might try to set up a series of wood blocks and a vice or C-clamps. You will need to go a little bit past flat to allow for spring-back.
 
Steel is ductile enough that you can bend that plate flat without causing undue stress on the weld. The plate will yield locally just out away from the weld.

I might try to set up a series of wood blocks and a vice or C-clamps. You will need to go a little bit past flat to allow for spring-back.

Again, not worried about the plate being warped or not flat from heat treating, I can deal with that.. Concerned about the entire plate not being perpendicular to the gear leg.. Is that angle normal? I don’t have the old one off of the airplane, so I don’t know if there’s suppose to be an angle between the plate and the gear leg.
 
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Looks good to me. The belly and the firewall are not exactly at right angles. If the plate was at 90 degrees, the top fixture would not touch the firewall.
Cheers DaveH 120485
 
Looks good to me. The belly and the firewall are not exactly at right angles. If the plate was at 90 degrees, the top fixture would not touch the firewall.
Cheers DaveH 120485

Correct

Hold the leg up to the firewall. I think you will find that the bottom plate matches pretty closely to the angle of the fwd belly skin.
 
Correct

Hold the leg up to the firewall. I think you will find that the bottom plate matches pretty closely to the angle of the fwd belly skin.

Thanks Scott... I just sent an email to Fedosia to disregard re: the gear leg issue..
 
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