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  #11  
Old 03-02-2021, 09:05 AM
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cactusman cactusman is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
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"We know of many rotax 912 CDI failures. The most usual failure is the unability to start the engine from cold, in this case the CDIs will work and the engine will start after applying a heat gun for 3 or 4 minutes to the CDIs."

From rotax owner:

https://www.rotax-owner.com/en/912-9...tions?start=20
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  #12  
Old 03-02-2021, 09:15 AM
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Advanced Start Module (ASM) Ignition. The “advance” in performance comes from retarding the spark to After Top Dead Center (ATDC) during start-up, and then reverting to the normal Before Top Dead Center (BTDC) settings after the engine is running. The result, of course, is easier starting. Standard on 912 series engines delivered beginning in January, 2010, this modification can easily be made to earlier 912s by replacing the two CDI black boxes with ones marked as part number 966-727, and replacing the flywheel hub. The newer engines with the improvements installed at the factory have a yellow stripe on the CDI boxes. Check to see if you already have this improvement on your 912 by checking the CDI boxes for the new part number. Further information is detailed in Rotax Service Information SI-912-020.

https://www.rotax-owner.com/pdf/SI-912-020-R4.pdf

(scroll down a bunch of pages)
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  #13  
Old 03-02-2021, 09:35 AM
mbell mbell is offline
 
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My old 2009 Aerotrek had both modules fail in this way. The diagnostic trick from Lockwood is this: if it won't start don't touch a thing except to put an ice pack on the top module for a few minutes. In my case it immediately started. Once started it will continue to start and run all day, but likely need ice again the next day. Someone in Europe repairs them, but quickest fix is a new module or two. My understanding at the time was they don't tend to fail entirely, meaning once they start will continue to run. If you always start on both modules you could have one in this failure mode for years and never know it, as long as one of them is good for the start.
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  #14  
Old 03-02-2021, 10:58 AM
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cactusman cactusman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbell View Post
My old 2009 Aerotrek had both modules fail in this way. The diagnostic trick from Lockwood is this: if it won't start don't touch a thing except to put an ice pack on the top module for a few minutes. In my case it immediately started. Once started it will continue to start and run all day, but likely need ice again the next day. Someone in Europe repairs them, but quickest fix is a new module or two. My understanding at the time was they don't tend to fail entirely, meaning once they start will continue to run. If you always start on both modules you could have one in this failure mode for years and never know it, as long as one of them is good for the start.
Apply heat or cold - sounds like my Doctor.
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  #15  
Old 03-02-2021, 12:02 PM
n518jh n518jh is offline
 
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Location: Sun City West, AZ
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My plane is hangered at Glendale airport. #5 middle blue hangers. 480-249-6543
To answer the questions and suggestions from the group; thank you for the comments. Clarifying; The battery is fully charged, the engine when starting spins like a top, and either fires on both modules or not at all. And the start/ no start can be within 15 minutes of working around the engines that's what so damm frustrating, and it can be either way first start, then not, no start, monkey with wires and it starts, then put the cowling on and no start.

It's hard to imagine that both modules are independently having the same problem, unless there is a common point. Any other thoughts? Mark
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  #16  
Old 03-02-2021, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n518jh View Post
My plane is hangered at Glendale airport. #5 middle blue hangers. 480-249-6543
To answer the questions and suggestions from the group; thank you for the comments. Clarifying; The battery is fully charged, the engine when starting spins like a top, and either fires on both modules or not at all. And the start/ no start can be within 15 minutes of working around the engines that's what so damm frustrating, and it can be either way first start, then not, no start, monkey with wires and it starts, then put the cowling on and no start.

It's hard to imagine that both modules are independently having the same problem, unless there is a common point. Any other thoughts? Mark
yeah Rich is out there too i think. Hold old is the battery? I had a battery showing fully charged that was causing problems. Changed it out (actually a batteries plus chain store had one) and that solved all my problems at the time.

I would change out the battery if its original or more than 4-5 years old. Start there. Then call Lockwood and ask for advice - my guess is it is those teal/green modules that are bad.
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Last edited by cactusman : 03-02-2021 at 12:43 PM.
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  #17  
Old 03-02-2021, 02:09 PM
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Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
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If the battery cranks the engine fast enough to start then the battery is OK. The ignition modules do not get electrical power from the battery, so that can be taken out of the equation. See post #3 above.
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  #18  
Old 03-03-2021, 06:27 AM
jnmeade jnmeade is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Iowa
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Mark,
How are you sure that the engine is firing on both modules? And do you have a conventional rotary switch with spring loaded start position or are you running toggle switches for each module p-lead?
I can't think of anything that would cause the engine to run on both modules or not at all in the manner you're describing. I'm assuming your wiring is conventional.
I've just been through my Rotax ignition system thoroughly (not on RV) and the symptoms you're describing are puzzling, as you say.
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  #19  
Old 03-03-2021, 07:00 AM
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DaleB DaleB is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnmeade View Post
Mark,
How are you sure that the engine is firing on both modules? And do you have a conventional rotary switch with spring loaded start position or are you running toggle switches for each module p-lead?
I can't think of anything that would cause the engine to run on both modules or not at all in the manner you're describing. I'm assuming your wiring is conventional.
I've just been through my Rotax ignition system thoroughly (not on RV) and the symptoms you're describing are puzzling, as you say.
He's talking about an RV-12 with a Rotax 912 ULS engine. There are switches for the A and B ignition modules, and a spring loaded momentary start key switch. I've had a similar situation in mine. It's an older (2010) installation with two non soft start ignition modules installed, and an add-on soft start module on the A side. We normally start on A, then switch on B as soon as the engine is running. This reduces the possibility of a kickback during starting, which can damage the sprag clutch.

A few times we've seen where it won't start on the A side (newer battery, strong cranking, good power), but would start with both ignitions turned on. I've tried bypassing the aftermarket module; it doesn't make any difference. I'd love to replace both ignition modules with the newer version, but those modules are just a bit pricey.
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Omaha, NE
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  #20  
Old 03-03-2021, 07:38 AM
JBPILOT JBPILOT is offline
 
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Location: Jesup, Iowa
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Default Green Stripe Modules - -

Over the last several years I have stated this a few times, but I had both Green Stripe modules fail between 400 - 500 hours. In about 2012, Rotax had a program where they would sell you two new YELLOW Stripe ones for less than the regular price of one. I'm sure that program did not last long. The YELLOW ones have been very good. Due to Covid, have not flown much in last year. I think I have about 1,450 hours on my plane now. I also added the latest flywheel which really softens the starting process.
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