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Water landings in an RV?

Steve Brown

Well Known Member
I'm talking about ditching the airplane.

Anyone either done it or know of anyone who has done it? What was the outcome?

I've kind of assumed that the tall gear on mine would certainly cause me to flip. After which I would be hanging upside down by the belts, having only have seconds to get the canopy open, the belts off, and get me and my wife out of the airplane before it went to the bottom.

So far this has kept me within glide distance of shore. That is generally good single engine practice anyway, but watching the 1549 event got me thinking about how water is sometimes the safest place to set down. If it can be done without drowning.
 
Scary Scenario

Steve,

Before flying over the ocean a couple of years ago (548 nm's) in the RV I read about ferry pilots and their techniques for just such an occasion. Basically the advice for a fixed gear airplane was to land sideways between the swells or on top but also 90 degress to the swell. The trick to doing this successfully apparently is to dip the wing at the last minute so that one wing tip hits the water first. This is supposed to transfer some of the energy that would typically cause you to flip over frontwards and make the plane try to flip to the side by adding the cartwheel type action. Only on the other side you have a wing to stop you and bleed of the kinetic energy. I wouldn't want to try this, would you?:eek: The call sign "Soily" would likely follow a successful water landing in an RV.
 
Thanks

I had not read that before. What a great article to knock us all down a notch and remind us it really can happen to anyone and fast. I have been putting my survival vest together as i complete my build and will always wear it for all cross countries...you just never know. Fly safe.
 
Risk vs Benefit

I have flown several aircraft over water from Florida to the Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, Puerto Rico, and the British Virgin Islands. The British Virgins are 1200 miles from Florida. We all know that the airplane doesn't know wether it is flying over land or water, but we do. I have always said that it is a mind game. If you don't mind it is fun.

I have also flown over lots of places over land that you could never land a plane in, either lots of trees, rugged terain, or very uneven ground. I always felt that water would be more survivable than trying to land in the forrests of Minnesota, Georgia or any of the other states that have woods that go on for miles and miles. My risk management mind said that it is super important to maintain the plane to the highest standards. I know we cannot eleminate all risks, but minimise them to a comfort level that you can live with.

With the current personal locator devices rescue is more likely than ever. You just need to survive the crash. Air bags might be a way to increase the odds here.

The bottom line is to find your risk comfort level. Some folks feel fine ferrying planes across the north Atlantic in winter. I would not, but I would fly over the Carribean with Islands every 20 to 50 to 100 miles depending where you are. If you can get your mind under control, you can have lots of fun.

Gary Specketer
 
I think air bags are a great idea but would not want them in my plane if I had to ditch. I think they would prevent you from egressing or at the least make it very difficult. You are right about mind games. My float plane that I had years ago always seemed like the engine changed sounds as soon as I was not with in gliding distance of water. Like the water and sand traps on a golf course, mind games.
 
They deflate

I think air bags are a great idea but would not want them in my plane if I had to ditch. I think they would prevent you from egressing or at the least make it very difficult. You are right about mind games. My float plane that I had years ago always seemed like the engine changed sounds as soon as I was not with in gliding distance of water. Like the water and sand traps on a golf course, mind games.

Automotive style airbags deflate almost immediately after they have been deployed. It would be nice to have some other device, not in the cabin, to inflate to give more time to get out. The panel airbag would only protect from the initial impact.
 
Canopy je****on

Just this morning, I was discussing this very topic at the EAA Chapter 690 Pancake Breakfast in Lawrenceville, GA. I am planning a RTW flight in my 8A, once it is completed, so I have been keenly interested in this topic. From my research, it is my belief that it would be advantageous to jettison the canopy before actually striking the water, so as to prevent entrapment after the inevitable flip. I could install removeable clevis pins on the canopy frame instead of the bolts called for in the plans. I wonder, however, if aerodynamic forces would make it impossible to jettison the canopy in flight. I have read that is is virtually impossible to slide the 8 canopy back in flight because of aerodynamic forces. Any thoughts?
 
Just this morning, I was discussing this very topic at the EAA Chapter 690 Pancake Breakfast in Lawrenceville, GA.

I read this and was wondering how the weather on the east side of Atlanta could be so much better than the west. (200 OVC, 2 SM Vis) But then I remembered you can actually drive to EAA breakfasts as well. :)

We did manage to get 2 hours in this afternoon though...

Sorry to sidetrack the thread. Back to water landings.
 
Water landing an RV will probably have the same outcome as landing a Cessna or Piper - not good. The fuselage will break open and the machine will sink quickly if it does not flip over or cart wheel and lose its wings. Fly over miles of water if you must, but don't plan on a ditching to be a piece of cake.

Several composit airplanes have ditched and floated but I don't know of any SEL metal airplanes that have floated for long.
 
From my research, it is my belief that it would be advantageous to jettison the canopy before actually striking the water, so as to prevent entrapment after the inevitable flip.

That would make sense... I remember the C172 I used to rent, in the checklist, in the "Ditch" section there was a "open doors before toutching down".

Probably to make sure you can get out.
 
If you hit water at 60 mph with no canopy and flipped, It seems like it would be quite an impact on your body. The article said it shattered the canopy on impact. But it would suck to be pinned inside also.

Any volunteers to try this out? I'll pass for now:D
 
It can be opened, Steve...

........ I have read that is is virtually impossible to slide the 8 canopy back in flight because of aerodynamic forces. Any thoughts?

.....since one unfortunate guy did it to bail out of his on-fire -8 several years ago. Adrenaline, methinks, would help you get it open if/when the chips are down.

Jimmy Buffet once tumbled an amphib and remembered his underwater scenario training..."Bubbles up", meaning to follow the bubbles, since they always go up and you'd more than likely be very disoriented, as he was, following a tumbling airplane. He lived to talk about that one and I dare say you could too. I like the idea of your pins, Steve and also a small O2 bottle like the Top fuel boat dragsters use during a 200 MPH + run.

Regards,
 
That would make sense... I remember the C172 I used to rent, in the checklist, in the "Ditch" section there was a "open doors before toutching down".

Probably to make sure you can get out.

The doors in a Cessna should be opened before you crash land on any surface because if the door frames deform with the doors still in them and latched, there's a good possibility you won't be able to get them to open. I think an RV would be a different situation, and I'm not sure I'd want to ditch any aircraft where you've jettisoned the piece that's going to protect you from taking water in the face at 60mph.

PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
 
Several composit airplanes have ditched and floated but I don't know of any SEL metal airplanes that have floated for long.

I have always wondered if a kayak flotation bag would give a little additional buoyancy. I used them in my kayak when I traveled the Maine coast in heavy seas. It seems they would be the perfect size to fit into the tailcone.

I also remember what my instructor taught me: "There is nothing more useless than the amount of altitude that you have above you." The article about the Hawaii ditching said the pilot called his mayday from 2,000' and many miles from shore. With additional altitude, he may have been able to glide closer to shore.

My 2?, FWIW
 
I have always wondered if a kayak flotation bag would give a little additional buoyancy. I used them in my kayak when I traveled the Maine coast in heavy seas. It seems they would be the perfect size to fit into the tailcone.

I also remember what my instructor taught me: "There is nothing more useless than the amount of altitude that you have above you." The article about the Hawaii ditching said the pilot called his mayday from 2,000' and many miles from shore. With additional altitude, he may have been able to glide closer to shore.

My 2?, FWIW

A floatation device is not a bad idea, especially if you are planning to fly extended overwater operations. Water displaces about 62 pounds per cubic foot, so you would need about 19 cubic feet of floatation for a typical 2-place RV, probably more than the kayak floatation bags quoted above. However, it shouldn't be too hard to come up with a custom floatation bag big enough to do the job that would fit in the aft fuselage http://www.subsalve.com/custom.htm. It wouldn't necessarily help egress, because the cockpit would still most likely be underwater, but it would allow something to hang on to after you got out, make you more visible, and perhaps allow the aircraft to be salvaged.

In Hawaii, light aircraft routinely cross between the islands of Maui, Lanai, and Molokai at altitudes as low as 1500 feet. In fact, local procedures dictate east bound altitudes of 500', 1500' and 2500', west bound 1000', 2000' and 3000'. Oahu to Kauai is a bit further stretch and higher might be appropriate. The lower altitudes are better for sight seeing, whale watching, etc. Despite the relatively high volume of inter-island single-engine GA traffic, there are very few ditching incidents.

The chance of a ditching is very remote, but being prepared would definitely promote more peace of mind on any extended overwater flight. My first priority would be an emergency air supply for egress, then floatation to assist survival. If you can float the whole airplane, all the better.
 
I was thinking the same thing

I have always wondered if a kayak flotation bag would give a little additional buoyancy. I used them in my kayak when I traveled the Maine coast in heavy seas. It seems they would be the perfect size to fit into the tailcone.
...........

My 2?, FWIW

Particularly the very large ones like is use in my Mariner Kayaks. The airplane would float nose down, but I'd rather be 5 feet under water than 50 feet.
 
Water landing an RV will probably have the same outcome as landing a Cessna or Piper - not good. The fuselage will break open and the machine will sink quickly if it does not flip over or cart wheel and lose its wings. Fly over miles of water if you must, but don't plan on a ditching to be a piece of cake.

Several composit airplanes have ditched and floated but I don't know of any SEL metal airplanes that have floated for long.

A friend, who does post on this forum from time to time, ditched a PA-28 Piper with his wife aboard. He exited the plane and didn't see wife. It turns out he swam right by her on the way out. She did get out before the plane went down. He said the Piper floated, tail up for a while but not long. His mayday broadcast brought the rescuers fairly quickly.

He went on to say he put all his rescue stuff on his lap, which went into the foot well on impact and he never saw it again, including his life vest.

If you take a look at my POH, posted with the others, there is a section on Ditching. My friend went over it for me and it includes the key stuff that helped him.

As for ditching my -9. I figure it is best to open the tip-up canopy and let it float in trail. When the plane hits the water, that thing will flip forward and may rip off, give us easy exit. I would not try to jettison it as I don't want to have to worry about wind in the face or a different handling airplane while I'm trying to gently place it into the water.
 
ditching

Great to read about an actual ditching, kudos to Bob for sharing that.
I like the 02 bottle for another thing.....in-flight fire. Lets you breathe while you disharge your extinguisher! Like anything, if you don't practice it, you are not going to be able to find and use it in an emergency.

I wear a CO2 life vest at all times. At first I'm sure most people think I'm a dork, then think I'm a test pilot, especially when I sign my gas receipt, "Chuck.......( Yeager Jr.?)"
Mostly flying over the okanagan valley, the landing sites are 90% treed or steep rocky hills, or nice flat open water near beaches and highways. Rescue time is critical of course.
Jettison the canopy? true....I'd like to know it's going to open post-impact, but I might need the extra 2 gulps of air before it fills up??????

check out 'ditching' videos on Youtube, and they seem to bear out the 'wing-low' technique which avoids the flipover.
 
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