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  #11  
Old 12-07-2019, 08:13 AM
Special Delivery's Avatar
Special Delivery Special Delivery is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: League City, TX
Posts: 602
Default The old days are gone... New online Certification process

We recently completed the Certification process using FAAs new online application process, and yes, you'll need at least an average level of computer savvy to get through it without frustration. For most, you'll have no problem... heck, we did it on the first try without reading the help/instruction files.

Suggestions based on our experience:

(1) No need to prepare a signed hard copy of the 8130-6 (Application) for upload. The online process does this for you based on a few questions and provides for an electronic signature.

(2) Prepare a hard copy of your signed Program Letter (EAA and Mel provide time proven formats).

(3) Generate a .pdf of your Program Letter and separate .pdf files for each supporting document (3-view, W&B etc.).

(4) No need to send your photo albums etc. The inspector will review these at the time of inspection.

All in all, if you have your documents in separate .pdf files, the process is not difficult... just different. BTW: worked great using FireFox on win10
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R. E. "Ernie" Butcher
Friends of the RV-1/Eagle's Nest Projects
"Mentors build the student...
Students build the airplane." -Glen Salmon

Dedicated to the historical preservation of the RV-1 Aircraft
and organized for the purposes of promoting, supporting,
fostering, and engaging in aviation and aerospace education.

www.RV-1.org
www.EaglesNestProjects.org
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  #12  
Old 12-07-2019, 08:33 AM
rockwoodrv9 rockwoodrv9 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Meridian ID, Aspen CO, Okemos MI
Posts: 2,699
Default

Carl, I just found that webinar on EAA too. Thanks. Im going to watch it and see how it works. The info sounds like it will be good. Here is the link - same as you posted.

https://eaa.org/Videos/Webinars/Airc.../6089409023001

Edit: Looking into it, it looks like you may have to post a public builders log available to anyone searching. I can see how that would be good for other builders but not so good for privacy. The webinar is an hour so maybe there are ways to make it private.
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rockwoodrv9a
Williamston MI
O-320 D2A
Flying N376E

Last edited by rockwoodrv9 : 12-07-2019 at 08:50 AM.
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  #13  
Old 12-07-2019, 08:52 AM
rockwoodrv9 rockwoodrv9 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Meridian ID, Aspen CO, Okemos MI
Posts: 2,699
Default Thanks Ernie

Thanks Ernie. Good information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Special Delivery View Post
We recently completed the Certification process using FAAs new online application process, and yes, you'll need at least an average level of computer savvy to get through it without frustration. For most, you'll have no problem... heck, we did it on the first try without reading the help/instruction files.

Suggestions based on our experience:

(1) No need to prepare a signed hard copy of the 8130-6 (Application) for upload. The online process does this for you based on a few questions and provides for an electronic signature.

(2) Prepare a hard copy of your signed Program Letter (EAA and Mel provide time proven formats).

(3) Generate a .pdf of your Program Letter and separate .pdf files for each supporting document (3-view, W&B etc.).

(4) No need to send your photo albums etc. The inspector will review these at the time of inspection.

All in all, if you have your documents in separate .pdf files, the process is not difficult... just different. BTW: worked great using FireFox on win10
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Williamston MI
O-320 D2A
Flying N376E
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  #14  
Old 12-07-2019, 05:38 PM
calpilot calpilot is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Independence
Posts: 69
Default DAR says.....

I am a DAR for the FSDO and the MIDO. The order that regulates EAB aircraft is 8130.2j; Starting January 1, 2020, all applications are to be uploaded through "AWC", a new web site that even the FSDO's and MIDO's are still having difficulty beta testing. The URL is: https://awc.faa.gov/AWCExternalApplicant/Splash/Index

6 documents need to be uploaded:

1. 8130-6 Application ( use 2018 form)
2. notarized 8130-12
3. copy of registration
4. 3 view drawing or photo
5. weight and balance
6. program letter.

If you are in the Northwest Mountain Region of the FAA, I am one of the few DAR's still active for EAB and ELSA.

Regards,

Gary Brown
please do not respond on VAF, just use my e mail calpilot123@gmail.com
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  #15  
Old 12-07-2019, 07:55 PM
rockwoodrv9 rockwoodrv9 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Meridian ID, Aspen CO, Okemos MI
Posts: 2,699
Default

Thanks Gary. I sent you an email.
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Williamston MI
O-320 D2A
Flying N376E
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  #16  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:26 PM
RV7A Flyer's Avatar
RV7A Flyer RV7A Flyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: US
Posts: 2,313
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by calpilot View Post
Starting January 1, 2020, all applications are to be uploaded through "AWC", a new web site that even the FSDO's and MIDO's are still having difficulty beta testing.
This is what gives government agencies and their employees a bad name. If it's still not working, *it hasn't passed beta test* and is not ready for release.

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2019 Dues paid!
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  #17  
Old 12-08-2019, 06:41 PM
Charles in SC Charles in SC is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 705
Default

My guess is that this will be kind of like the IACRA portal which is the way pilot licenses and some other ratings and certifications are handled now. This started a few years ago. I did not use it until I had to but once I started it worked well. It is a way of doing the paper work online and eliminates a lot of errors.
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  #18  
Old 12-10-2019, 08:33 PM
Vern's Avatar
Vern Vern is online now
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Peachtree City, Ga
Posts: 1,050
Thumbs up Delay of new certification process

Got an email from the FAA today that the new digital process has been moved out to the end of March 2020.
Good move!
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Vern Darley
Awarded FAA "The Wright Brothers 'Master Pilot' Award"- for 50 years safe flying

RV-6A N680V / RV-10QB N353RV
Luscombe 8E N2423K 50+years
Hatz Biplane N2423Z soon to be birthed
Falcon RV Squadron Founder
KFFC Hanger D-30
Peachtree City, Ga
770 310-7169
EAA Technical Counselor #5142
EAA Flight Advisor #486336
ATP/CFI/A&P/DAR
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  #19  
Old 12-24-2019, 08:40 PM
calpilot calpilot is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Independence
Posts: 69
Default New certification procedures

I am a DAR-T and DAR-F. Also a multiple RV builder, I service the needs of the EAB and ELSA builders in the Northwest Mountain Region. The new "AWC" online submission is being tried in the NW, has a few issues. My experience is that many of my clients can build a fabulous aircraft, but not operate a computer, so it will have a lot of issues, not exactly user friendly. I suggest clients work with their DAR and perhaps submit to the DAR the documents, the DAR can offer corrections to make the documentation "perfect" prior to uploading. then the client needs to upload in the AWC web site, part of that process is they can choose the DAR they want for the certification. Once the FAA approves the package, they will assign a DAR. (Hopefully informed by phone or email). The DAR will then enter the package into another WEB site called "DMS". The FAA will delegate the process to the DAR, and the DAR can schedule for inspection. I deal with the Seattle MIDO and the Portland FSDO. If the documents are correct, I can usually be delegated to inspect within 48 hours after the client uploads proper documents into AWC. If anyone thinks the DAR charges too much ( I charge $395) they should see how much "secretarial" time we put in to keep the FAA happy with regulatory compliance. Often, each ASI in either office has their own way they "read" the order. I have a post it board full of notes of how each ASI wants the documentation proffered, so I try to make everyone happy, and try my best to make sure that the builder manufactured a safe aircraft. Registration takes a few weeks, so get on it well prior to wanting inspection!

Regards,

Gary Brown I answer to:
calpilot123@gmail.com
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  #20  
Old 03-07-2020, 04:05 AM
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cderk cderk is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Park Ridge, NJ
Posts: 676
Default Not bad, but not great

I went through the online process this week. Its pushed out til the end of March, but some locations are wanting folks to use the process now. So I gave it a shot. It wasn't terrible - and it only took me about 30 minutes. That said, I agree with some of the posts here that there are going to be a lot of folks who aren't as technical as others who may struggle.

The site is created to apply for all kinds of airworthiness certificates, which is great (overall, I'm all for modernizing things). The bad thing about this is that throughout the process, there are terms and options that can be selected that don't really apply to us E/AB builders. There were a few things that I had to look up on google to figure out what they were.

My suggestion for anyone who has to go through this process is this: Get the EAA Step-by-Step Certification guide and follow it. When it comes time to use the FAA AWC site, turn to the page in the guide that shows a sample FAA Form 8130-6. Basically the site is having you fill out this form by stepping you through a bunch of questions. For example, one of the first things that happens is that it asks you what kind of airworthiness certificate you are applying for. The EAA guide shows you exactly which boxes have to be checked. The aircraft certification basis was another section that was confusing... again, having the EAA guide open to the sample form would have helped.

All-in-all, not terrible... but there is a lot that I feel the FAA can change to make it better. The biggest improvement that they could make would be to ask what kind of airworthiness certificate you want to apply for, and then tailor the rest of the application for that only. They leave a bunch of options in there that don't make sense for E/AB which I feel just adds to the confusion.

I'll report back on how long the process takes. I do know that as I was filling out the application, even before I hit submit, the local FSDO had visibility of my application. I submitted in Thursday, March 5. My DAR should have received the completed application yesterday. I'll check in with him over the weekend or Monday to see where things stand.

I did touch base with EAA government affairs (thanks Joe), and I actually created a PPT slide deck with each of the screens and indicated where I had some confusion and sent it over to the FAA, in the hopes that they would take the constructive criticism and help make things easier to use. There will definitely be a learning curve here - for both applicants and DARs. By nature we are resistant to change, but in concept, I think this is a great move to modernize things.
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