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Honda 1.8L on RV6A Now Flying!

GOOD news on gearbox temp...

Good news. I got the green light from Viking to allow max temp of 230F. I cannot say why the max temp limit was changed, but at least this will allow me to head up in to the max torque RPM of 4800 that I really have been hoping/expecting to use for top RPM for climb and max cruise. It will be very interesting to me to see what 32" to 36" MAP results in for RPM at say 7000rpm with the prop set at 22 degrees. Considering I get 1000fpm at 34" MAP at MSL I suspect I will end up trying 23 degrees at some point.

He also said that I need more blast air to the gearbox. I will be increasing my main blast tube to 2" (centered on the bottom bearing) and I will and an additional 1.25" tube to the top gear as well as needed.

It is projected to be solid drizzle rain here for at least 5 more days. So it will be a while before I can report more test results.
 
Good news. I got the green light from Viking to allow max temp of 230F. I cannot say why the max temp limit was changed, but at least this will allow me to head up in to the max torque RPM of 4800 that I really have been hoping/expecting to use for top RPM for climb and max cruise. It will be very interesting to me to see what 32" to 36" MAP results in for RPM at say 7000rpm with the prop set at 22 degrees. Considering I get 1000fpm at 34" MAP at MSL I suspect I will end up trying 23 degrees at some point.

He also said that I need more blast air to the gearbox. I will be increasing my main blast tube to 2" (centered on the bottom bearing) and I will and an additional 1.25" tube to the top gear as well as needed.

It is projected to be solid drizzle rain here for at least 5 more days. So it will be a while before I can report more test results.

At 200+ degrees, the blast air will do a lot more good for you than it would at 170. Go play and see what results!
 
At 200+ degrees, the blast air will do a lot more good for you than it would at 170. Go play and see what results!

If I only had a magic weather wand.....but if I did, I would be rich, and then I would do something really stupid....
 
He also said that I need more blast air to the gearbox. I will be increasing my main blast tube to 2" (centered on the bottom bearing) and I will and an additional 1.25" tube to the top gear as well as needed.

If the plan is to ignore the cause and cool the box, consider adding a fins and a ducted enclosure. The heat transfer rate would be much higher, requiring less air to cooler more. Blast tubes are inefficient.

The front side of the box is mostly flat surface. The addition doesn't require tapped holes. There are thermal epoxies specifically intended for gluing premade heat sinks to hot things.

Even without internal finning, a cooling enclosure would be better than pointing blast tubes at the box.
 
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If the plan is to ignore the cause and cool the box, consider adding a fins and a ducted enclosure. The heat transfer rate would be much higher, requiring less air to cooler more. Blast tubes are inefficient.

The front side of the box is mostly flat surface. The addition doesn't require tapped holes. There are thermal epoxies specifically intended for gluing premade heat sinks to hot things.

Even without internal finning, a cooling enclosure would be better than pointing blast tubes at the box.

Watch out Charlie - Dan will have you building a full airbox with heatsinks and molded airflow pieces, and you'll never get to fly! :D
 
Please avoid rude, condescending comments

Dan....Your comment about the thermistors and heatsink fins are valid comments, that I welcome....but. ....to insinuate that there is a plan to ignore the cause is not only wrong, but rude.

As I have said many times, all comments are welcome, even contrary and opposing views on solutions. But for the sake of the readers, please do not post rude or condescending comments.

Thanks.
 
thanks for the humor

Watch out Charlie - Dan will have you building a full airbox with heatsinks and molded airflow pieces, and you'll never get to fly! :D

Greg,

Thanks for adding some humor to what Dan wrote...It was needed.
 
Greg,

Thanks for adding some humor to what Dan wrote...It was needed.

I think you may be a bit hasty on Dan - he's got a point.

There's a couple ways to look at this. Something is causing the temps to exceed the "limit" of 170F.

First is that the limit of 170 is there for a good reason - and you've got something causing excess heat - and you should find the cause of the heat, rather than treating the symptom by making it go away.

Second is that the limit of 170 is not really a hard limit, and 230 might be the hard limit, and you really don't have a problem.

The real trouble here is that you don't know (nor do any of us) which of the two statements above is true - which is what Dan was getting at. He's a smart guy, and he's forgotten more about airflow and cooling than I've ever learned. You would do well by thinking about what he has to say, rather than ridiculing it. If you really have excess heat and need to get rid of it (as opposed to stopping it being created), then you need to be good friends with Dan - he knows the tricks.

Bottom line - if something is hot and needs not to be, listen to Dan. If it's hot and it SHOULDN'T be, then you need to figure out why. Right now you don't know which path to follow - so calling one good and one bad is simply shortsighted.
 
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Dan H’s posts should be used as an illustration of the dictionary definition of “common sense” and by no means as an illustration of the term “rudeness”

Charlie, I am pretty sure you misread the meaning of Dan’s post.

I understood it to mean that there might be an underlying issue that causes the temps to be excessive and that issue might not be the inadequate cooling. Perhaps looking to provide additional cooling is an attempt to alleviate a symptom instead of fixing the problem?

You stated a number of times that you take Mr. J’s words at face value. Do you have a good basis for doing that? The gearbox might be the most critical component in your project. A gearbox failure seems to be the most common cause for alternative engine installations failures. Mr. J is not known for coming up with proven reliable products and, in particular, he is not known for well engineered, well tested, proven and reliable gearboxes. It makes me pause and think why is it that one day 170F is the max temp specified and then another day it becomes 230F. Was it additional research and testing that lead Mr. J to increase the max gearbox temps by 60 degrees? If not, perhaps he is trusting you to do the testing? That would be a sensible position as long as you understand and accept it. Do you?
 
I think you may be a bit hasty on Dan - he's got a point.

There's a couple ways to look at this. Something is causing the temps to exceed the "limit" of 170F.

First is that the limit of 170 is there for a good reason - and you've got something causing excess heat - and you should find the cause of the heat, rather than treating the symptom by making it go away.

Second is that the limit of 170 is not really a hard limit, and 230 might be the hard limit, and you really don't have a problem.

The real trouble here is that you don't know (nor do any of us) which of the two statements above is true - which is what Dan was getting at. He's a smart guy, and he's forgotten more about airflow and cooling than I've ever learned. You would do well by thinking about what he has to say, rather than ridiculing it. If you really have excess heaand need to get rid of it (as opposed to stopping it being created), then you need to be good friends with Dan - he knows the tricks.

There are two very different topics here.

1) The statement that there is a "plan to ignore the cause".
2) The topic of temps, the cause of the temps, what is the "norm", What is the upper limit, and is there a cause to be concern about the fact that the upper limit was changed, and is the upper limit a credible value? Is the 170 a limit for a different gearbox? (yes).

I welcome comments on (#2) the cause of temps and whether or not there is room to be concerned. Great topic and one that I welcome. Like one person who posted some data on typical bearing heat tolerances.

But as far as topic #1.... it is just too weird for me to think I need to be nice and be friends to someone who insinuates there is a plan to ignore topic #2 when it is obvious by my posts that nothing could be farther from the truth. Sorry can't ignore comment #1 even if the person is smart.

This is not a big deal to me. But as far as me being hasty, you may not know the history. (Ill leave it at that). When the rude comments start back up, I cannot ignore them. Those kinds of comments have killed many threads. People just pack up and leave and I don't want that to happen to this thread.

I really want to get back to talking about this project. I look forward to more flying of the Honda engine RV6A and the successes and challenges and various solutions to overcome those challenges. What works, what doesn't. I welcome all comments especially from "smart" people, I just ask they be respectful.

Sorry for being a bit long winded, but it is important to know my goal of this thread has always been to keep it fun and informative and only want to keep it that way.
 
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It would be good to find out why it's getting so hot but I'd be very surprised if it's bearing related. It would take tremendously high loadings to generate significant heat here and the bearings would probably have shown significant distress already if that was the case- assuming the bearings are properly selected and of good quality (not cheap offshore brands I hope).

Typically a lot more heat is generated at the gear set where the profile/ mesh isn't good or surface finish is poor.

Support shaft deflection can cause edge loading on gears and roller elements.

Some ideas from another poster whose posts are a reason for me hanging around this forum.
 
Gearbox temps.

There are a lot of great questions being asked. Why do max temp limits on the different Viking gearboxes vary from 170F, 180F, 220F and some are 230F. Only Viking can answer that.

It does not surprise me that the original 110 box was lower/different than the 130 and the 130 is lower/different than the HD box.

What is the "norm"? Would box on a 90 or 100 HP rotax be expected to see the temps that I see. Would a 1.5L honda be expected to see the same temps as a 1.8L turbo charged engine?

For me the question is why did Vikings limit on my box increase from 180F to 230F? For those who may not follow this thread very closely, the increase was on the heals of him inspecting my gearbox and I took that to be something he was comfortable with after he did the inspection. Just my thoughts. But I have not pinned him down for an explanation. I will ask him to comment.

As always I will post my experience (successes and failures) as long as there is interest.
 
What an epic read of an epic "experimental aviation" story! I really take my hat off to you, Charlie, for sticking with this project.

I'm a huge fan of Honda engines and, thanks to the rational, polite discussion found in this thread and the excellent and helpful responses from those who have copious experience in auto conversions, I might even try a conversion.

My thanks go out to all here who have helped keep this discussion positive and helpful, and to you, Charlie, for tackling this project and bringing it to flight and sharing your story here.
 
My experience in highly loaded gearboxes goes back 30ish years when I was developing turbocharged road racing engines and reliable drive trains to go with them.

As we found more hp, the weaker links started to be exposed- clutches tended to remove their friction material rather suddenly into a big ball floating around in the bell housing, despite triple the stock pressure plate clamping force and gearboxes originally designed for 70hp/ 100 lb./ft. engines didn't stand up long with 4 to 5 times that.

After a couple input shaft to main shaft bearing failures where the rollers turned black and square after only 5 minutes, it was clear that these parts were not up to the task and I adapted a much larger and heavier gearbox to the engine and added a cooler and pump. The differentials also needed pumps and coolers to stay alive.

We used Chevron gear lubes designed for mining industry trucks with good results and later synthetics which is what I run in my Marcotte gearbox.

Nitrile seals are typically good up to 250F and I never had a temp related issue with them. Steel gear, ball and roller elements are pretty safe to 250F as well however while oil temps may be 250F, that probably means there are higher temps present at the junction of the gear sets and bearing elements. Life starts to be impacted at 300F to some degree.

As Bill stated before, Isotropic gear finishing makes a huge difference in reducing gear set temps and extending life. I wonder if Jan would consider doing this? https://gearsolutions.com/departments/materials-matter-isotropic-superfinishing/

As torque is increased, gearboxes run hotter and your 1.8L turbo engine almost certainly is putting out more torque than a naturally aspirated 1.5L engine. You are exploring that corner where Jan probably has little experience.

Knowing Jan as I do, the GBs were probably not extensively bench tested with temperature instrumentation and his temp recommendations may be guesses. Obviously 170F is safer than 230F but 230F may be entirely safe. Only running it there for many hours would prove or disprove that.

I'd recommend a look at the oil every 5 hours initially which could be extended slowly if no evidence of distress is found. Use a magnetic drain plug if not already fitted and check backlash at the prop tip on every pre-flight. These cautions should prevent an in-flight surprise like the other Viking customer had.
 
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I recall about 2.5 years ago Jan attempted a flight to Alaska in the Viking Super Duty Zenith and made the decision to abort and return to Florida because of elevated gearbox temperature. I do not know if there have been improvements in the gearbox since that time. Little details were revealed about the aborted flight.
 
DPerhaps looking to provide additional cooling is an attempt to alleviate a symptom instead of fixing the problem?

I think we need to be cautious in throwing around a lot of speculation here as fact. Do you think that lycoming was just lazy and didn't want to do the hard work when they decided to put cooling fins on their cylinder barrels and heads?

Heat generation is a complex issue and some mechanical or chemical operations simply have a linear or similar relationship with heat generation.

I think it is great that everyone is throwing out ideas to help and Dan's point is a valid one. However, I doubt even he knows whether or not something can actually be done to reduce the heat generation. I speculate that his point was to determine IF something could be done on the generation side and address it there (apologies in advance if I mis-understood). Trouble here is that we have a unique installation of a product and therefore cannot assume that the OP's configuratoin is producing more heat than "normal." Just because another poster with a different version of the product and a different engine runs at 170, doesn't make it normal for the OP's installation.

Larry
 
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Dan....Your comment about the thermistors and heatsink fins are valid comments, that I welcome....but. ....to insinuate that there is a plan to ignore the cause is not only wrong, but rude.

Plain speech, in the interest of clarity.

I don't care if you welcome a comment. I write for your benefit, not your detriment, something you may not always grasp.

Right now, a few hours into Phase 1, you're precisely where I was a little more than 22 years ago, flying a conversion created entirely at home, from a bare crank outward...except for a purchased PSRU, which was showing signs of distress. I diligently took steps to mitigate the distress, but I did not address the underlying cause, because I didn't know enough about it. At about 35 hours, I deadsticked it a few miles back to a departure runway with about 100 feet to spare. I was lucky. Failure to understand the underlying physics did not kill me.

Not convinced? Fine. You're not required to accept advice. I will write for the others, the readers who may well do as I did, and as you are currently doing.

Bag of luck, bag of experience. You know the saying.
 
I have been following your project with great interest, this is an awesome work.

Also, without insinuating anything malicious here, I would gladly even pay for the type of comment/advice that Dan has provided.

Good luck and will follow your progress
 
I'm curious... Does this Viking Gearbox have a magnet plug to collect and show ferrous metal wear? Maybe even a chip detector like helicopters have?
 
I'm curious... Does this Viking Gearbox have a magnet plug to collect and show ferrous metal wear? Maybe even a chip detector like helicopters have?

Jim

I don't think so, but not a bad idea. its has a 1/8" NPT plug on the bottom. There are also large cap screws on the front of the box at the center of the lower and mid level gear. I am not sure what their function is.

I suspect you could probably find a 1/8" npt chip detector plug. It is just a low volt open line that gets "closed" when the chips are big enough to touch both of the probes thereby completing a circuit that is wired to a warning light on the dash.
 
Gearbox issues

I have an Eggenfelner gearbox on my Subaru powered RV. I suspect your higher temperatures are from a higher power engine than what the gearbox normally pairs with.

There’s really no way to know what’s normal with your configuration or how long the gearbox will last. Some of the early Subaru gearboxes failed in only a few hours. I would suggest careful monitoring and inspection while you build a track record.

Here’s some things I’ve watched for over the years and some symptoms other users have had. I would monitor the temperatures. Try to get a reproducible record of what temperatures the gearbox runs under given circumstances and watch for changes. Monitor the condition of the oil. Som of the failures I know of were proceeded by a noticeable change in the oil. The oil will get darker as metal parts deteriorate inside the gearbox. If you don’t have a sight glass on the gearbox, you might have to drain it regularly to inspect. Measure the “backlash” of the gears. This can be as simple as moving the prop back and forth measuring how much “slop” there is. As gears and bearings wear the backlash may increase. If possible, remove the gearbox at intervals and rotate it by hand feeling for roughness and noise. Maybe even open it up for inspection. Over time you will be able to gain confidence in the gearbox and hopefully find problems before a catastrophic failure.

What kind of connection is between the engine and the gearbox? The Subaru gearbox problem were solved by using a “dual mass” flywheel to absorb some of the impulses. Maybe that is something you can adapt to your application.

Good luck with your project, very impressive so far.

-Andy
 
I have an Eggenfelner gearbox on my Subaru powered RV. I suspect your higher temperatures are from a higher power engine than what the gearbox normally pairs with.

There’s really no way to know what’s normal with your configuration or how long the gearbox will last. Some of the early Subaru gearboxes failed in only a few hours. I would suggest careful monitoring and inspection while you build a track record.

Here’s some things I’ve watched for over the years and some symptoms other users have had. I would monitor the temperatures. Try to get a reproducible record of what temperatures the gearbox runs under given circumstances and watch for changes. Monitor the condition of the oil. Som of the failures I know of were proceeded by a noticeable change in the oil. The oil will get darker as metal parts deteriorate inside the gearbox. If you don’t have a sight glass on the gearbox, you might have to drain it regularly to inspect. Measure the “backlash” of the gears. This can be as simple as moving the prop back and forth measuring how much “slop” there is. As gears and bearings wear the backlash may increase. If possible, remove the gearbox at intervals and rotate it by hand feeling for roughness and noise. Maybe even open it up for inspection. Over time you will be able to gain confidence in the gearbox and hopefully find problems before a catastrophic failure.

What kind of connection is between the engine and the gearbox? The Subaru gearbox problem were solved by using a “dual mass” flywheel to absorb some of the impulses. Maybe that is something you can adapt to your application.

Good luck with your project, very impressive so far.

-Andy
f

Andy,

Great comments. Your real life experience is most meaningful to me and I appreciate you sharing them.

I do have the latest HD box that has a sight glass. Funny you should mention watching the color of the gearbox oil. Viking said the same thing. 230F as long as the oil stays clear and I add more cooling to the box.

As far as watching and recording temps to learn the "norm" - you nailed it. I am beginning to know how the temps increase and decrease with RPM and MAP. The temp rise is quite methodical and seeming appropriate in its correlation to power inputs. I'll be watching this with great interest as I increase RPM at higher altitude to see if the temps stabilize at some point. This will be after I enlarge the blast tube.

I have had both the standard 130 box and now the HD box. Both used very large Guibos. The HD box guibo is significantly larger that the standard box piece. I am very impressed with the rubber guibos. The nice part of this design incorporates a centering bushing. Both of my boxes seemed dead on so much that even though there was zero play in rotation, I could still move the guibo elements for and aft with just finger pressure, telling me that they centering was spot on and the angular offset was good yet there was no play. I am really impressed with this aspect of the design.

The gear lash play is minimal but I should create a record of the precise measurement of it and review it to see if it stays put. For the same reason, I need to pay careful attention to the root of the blades to make sure they do not show any signs loss of integrity. I have been in close contact with the guys at Warp Drive and they have been great to work with and have given considerable advise and input.

I do like the idea of occasionally removing the prop to rotate the box with out it being attached to the engine. That might be something to add to a 100 hour inspection.

If the lash is good and the rotation is smooth and the oil stays clear I will be good with that, If any of those other checks are "off" norms, Ill ship it back to Viking for them to inspect probably before I would be inclined to crack it open myself.

Thanks again for great advice.
 
I suspect you could probably find a 1/8" npt chip detector plug. It is just a low volt open line that gets "closed" when the chips are big enough to touch both of the probes thereby completing a circuit that is wired to a warning light on the dash.

Many helicopters have safely landed before transmission or tail rotor gearbox completely failed. A chip detector provides a little bit of early warning and may save your bacon. If not available in 1/8 NPT then perhaps change thread to 1/4 NPT or even make your own chip detector. You seem to be pretty handy with tools... :D
 
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Gearbox temps

Many of you will remember I promised to check of a validation of the gearbox temp sensor.

While my gauge is analog, so it is not eactly precise I did find it was reading 223F with insertion in to a pot that had just subsided with boiling water. That is my real world test results. While not exactly space shuttle certifiied, I am taking that to mean that it reads high. May be up to 10F high.

So, with advice from Viking and from many others here I am going to proceed with testing at higher RPM with a NE limit of 230F. While I have not ventured in to that area, I am somewhat confident I will see temps I can live with even at 4800 RPM.

I believe it will be very important to pay close attention to the color of the oil and any changes in backlash. Fortunately, this model of Gearbox has a large glass site gauge that has a plate inset in it that allows for very easy view of the color of the oil. Nice design.

I also increased my air blast tube to 2" today and this is in addition to the two 4.5" inlets to the cowl. Lots of fresh air in that cowl. I am prepared to add an additional blast tube if more cooling is needed. I also like the idea Dan H shared about cooling fins if needed.

Thanks to all for your comments. Sooner (than later) I hope to gain some confidence on the viability of this project. There is much promise of testing so far, but quite a few sqawks to work out too. Some of these I have not shared too much about (like my left brake keeps sucking air in to the line after I retract pressure from the pedal OMGA - and that my ADSB is not showing a pressure altitude) but those are a bit O.T. So I better not go there. Those are PM topics. I guess.
 
my left brake keeps sucking air in to the line after I retract pressure from the pedal OMGA .

I have posted about this several times. Might want to search for them. It is a seal failure in the Matco M/C. It is an age issue, not use. My 10 brakes did it at initially filling (MC's were on the shelf for 13 years).
 
Charlie -

You're not the only person using a Honda engine. This project has four (4) Honda engines.

I remember when I was a kid and a neighbor was building a rowboat in his basement. I thought, man it doesn't get any better than this.

Fast forward 60 years...

-----
 

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I have posted about this several times. Might want to search for them. It is a seal failure in the Matco M/C. It is an age issue, not use. My 10 brakes did it at initially filling (MC's were on the shelf for 13 years).


Larry,

Yes. I rebuilt both the MC and the Caliper, and thought it was solved. Then it came back. Ill be isolating and swapping lines and MC to see isolate the culprit. Just takes a lot of time......
 
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Never used filters on turbos and never had a bearing issue in 42 years. Blow out the oil feed line before installing. The engine has a filter on it. If there is that much metal floating around in the engine oil, you've got bigger issues.

OK. I was just curious how significant their value is in real world use.

Thanks
 
pushing it harder

I was finally able to get up for an hour today. It has rained here for 10 days straight, and the forecast is for about 10 more straight days of rain.

I climbed out at 34" of MAP and kept it there till 6000ft. I saw over 1000FPM AT 85mph. I get 1000fpm at 6000fpm at 34" MAP and about 4600 RPM. I also allowed the RPM to cruise at 4600-4700 RPM and the gearbox temp stayed about 195F - 200F. I was not able to do any triangulated flight routes, so I cannot say for sure any reliable cruise speeds but for what its worth. I think I was seeing 135-140mph at 4600RPM and about 26" MAP. Sure wish I could use more pitch, but warp is a bit uncomfortable going past 22 degrees pitch. But as fast as I climb I might increase it half a degree if I find a need to remove the prop.

I got rained out and had to land about about an hour.

So I am encouraged and very happy with the ship right now. Other than a pesky oil line fitting leak, things are quite well......

I swapped my cleaveland master cylinder that I had on the passenger side to the pilot side and left brake is better. But still not as solid as the right side. More investigating needed.

P.S. If you ever thought of moving to the great Pacific "Northwet" DON'T - unless you don't like to fly 6 months in the year.

B
 
Prop pitch

Why would Warp care about what pitch you use? I have warp drive blades on an electric adjustable prop and I would bet my full course setting is 40 degrees. I would suggest for a future project, find an electric adjustable prop to use. I think my aircraft would be 20 knots slower and burn more fuel if I had to pick a pitch that gave acceptable take off and climb performance. It will pay even bigger dividends with your turbocharged engine.

-Andy
 
Agree with Andy here. The faster you go, the more pitch you need. FP is a big compromise on turbo auto engines unless you find the TO and climb performance adequate with a good cruise pitch setting at your typical cruise altitudes.

Climb higher and rpms will start to increase again.
 
Andy, Ross,

Yes, absolutely, a constant speed and or in flight adjustable pitch prop would be better.

One of the intentional decisions that I made early on for this project was to try to keep it simple and that is why I started with the fixed pitch. I am very happy with it - albeit - with its inherent limitations. I might not have conveyed warp drives position real well. They did not say I cannot go beyond 22 degrees, it was something more like, going beyond 22 degrees was out side of their recommendations and that it was in their experience somewhat like uncharted territory. Those are my words and not theirs and just my way of trying to describe my conversation with them. And that if you do go beyond it to make sure you watch for any signs of stress at the root of the blades. I appreciate their position. Daryl and the other guys at warp drive have been very supportive.

I am working through all the phase I typical issues and many of them I have not writtten about in this thread if they are not engine related. Except my slight rant on the brake issue. (Thanks Larry - The swap fixed (mostly) the symptoms so I suspect the matco cylindar is somehow bad. (Scored in side?).

I did find/fix my pesky turbo feed line oil leak. It was just a fitting that was not sealed well. It is fixed now. No more (so far) streaks of oil down the belly!.

I have to say I think I have overcome 98% of the engine related sqwacks in this project. It is just a matter for proceeding with Phase 1 testing. I think I have about 22 hours now. ADSB in and out done. I have not done a papr yet but it is on my to do list.
 
long cross country from WA to KY via Las Vegas,

At some point after Phase I. I will be flying from Washington State to KY.

I have not done a true (2000mi) cross country trip before so I am really looking forward to it.

I am particularly interested in talking (PM) with anyone who has done that especially if you have cut on the north side of the las Vegas Controlled airspace where it intersects both Restricted airspace and the MOAs. I prefer not to go south of that airspace as the airports are limited and many do not have fuel. At least in a comparative sense.

If you have comments, please PM me. It is O.T. for this thread.

Thanks. !
 
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Good to see your progress Charlie!! One thing, someone suggested a magnetic plug inside the gear box, that is a really good idea. I had the company gear (engineering research) experts reporting to me at one time and learned a ton about gears in the industry. It is hard to spec and source gears, and some will shed particles as they break in. Monitoring that is a really good idea. Particularly with a low volume gear like you have. If they are shedding particles continuously, ground the plane! It means they are wearing out and not in - a bad surface hardness and heat treatment. Cloudy oil is likely metal, but you need to catch it long before that.

Trust is ok, but please verify.
 
ADS-B in and out done. I have not done a PAPR yet but it is on my to do list.

Charlie -

You can ask for PAPR report for any of your flights. You can ask for yesterday's flight if you flew in Rule Airspace. Worst that can happen is report come back with insufficient data. No problem, just try again on another flight. I ask for PAPR on most of my flights just for the heck of it while sitting in living room easy chair drinking cold one...
 
Fuel

Do you have the ability to use MOGAS with your engine? Reason I ask is that Subaru engines have a history of stuck rings when running 100LL. If you have to use 100LL I recommend using Marvel Mystery Oil in the fuel. This helps keep the rings free. You’ll notice a stuck ring in the way the engine cranks when starting and when you turn over the engine by hand. I had one once and was able to free it up by removing a spark plug and dumping in MMO. I knew you aren’t using a Subaru, but any auto engine uses tight tolerance on the rings. For anyone suggesting Decalin , I was using it as directed on every tank of fuel when I got my stuck ring.

-Andy
 
Do you have the ability to use MOGAS with your engine? Reason I ask is that Subaru engines have a history of stuck rings when running 100LL. If you have to use 100LL I recommend using Marvel Mystery Oil in the fuel. This helps keep the rings free. You’ll notice a stuck ring in the way the engine cranks when starting and when you turn over the engine by hand. I had one once and was able to free it up by removing a spark plug and dumping in MMO. I knew you aren’t using a Subaru, but any auto engine uses tight tolerance on the rings. For anyone suggesting Decalin , I was using it as directed on every tank of fuel when I got my stuck ring.

-Andy

Andy,

Thanks. I have been using MMO from just about hour one. I think Im using about 2 oz per 5 gal. I always use 92 Octange. I have not used 100LL yet, but of course I will when I go cross country. I did buy Decalin when I go beyond Phase 1....(hard to make a decision on MMO vs Decalin when experiences vary...) but I do like the MMO - but my experience is limited and arguably anecdotal on my part).

P.S. what CS hub are you using with Warp Drive blades?
 
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Charlie -

You can ask for PAPR report for any of your flights. You can ask for yesterday's flight if you flew in Rule Airspace. Worst that can happen is report come back with insufficient data. No problem, just try again on another flight. I ask for PAPR on most of my flights just for the heck of it while sitting in living room easy chair drinking cold one...

Thanks Jim,

I am going to have to re-read up on that again soon. I have avoided Rule airspace during Phase 1 but of course that will happen in my near future.
 
Good to see your progress Charlie!! One thing, someone suggested a magnetic plug inside the gear box, that is a really good idea. I had the company gear (engineering research) experts reporting to me at one time and learned a ton about gears in the industry. It is hard to spec and source gears, and some will shed particles as they break in. Monitoring that is a really good idea. Particularly with a low volume gear like you have. If they are shedding particles continuously, ground the plane! It means they are wearing out and not in - a bad surface hardness and heat treatment. Cloudy oil is likely metal, but you need to catch it long before that.

Trust is ok, but please verify.

I agree. BTW , one of my favorite quotes from Ronald Regan, a great USA leader, Trust but verify.
 
Andy,

P.S. what CS hub are you using with Warp Drive blades?

It’s a 3 blade hub from italy called Quinti. They’re out of business. I believe that they also made 4 blade hubs. Both versions come up for sale occasionally. There’s an electric adjustable prop from Australia that I saw at Oshkosh a couple of years ago that looked even better. Can’t remember the name, I’ll try to find it.

-Andy
 
Yup

It’s the Airmaster from New Zealand. If I were looking for a replacement, that’s what I would be looking at.
 
airmaster

OK. That is good to know, thanks.

As much as I like the idea of a in flight variable pitch prop, I am going to try to keep things "as is" for a while to really get settled in with things the way they are. I have had my share of challenges, ( intercom, brake cylinder, fuel pump).....but fortunately, I think most of them have been fixed. At 24 hours now, I want to see some more relaxed flying before I change things up a bit.

It has been very rewarding though, and something I am very glad I did. And, yes, I do think this engine is a viable concept for this airframe....
 
hard climb info on PSRU

I did some hard climb tests today.

Normally in level cruise the engine/gearbox seems to settle in best at 4500RPM and depending on altitude about 25" of MAP. The gearbox stays about 190-195F

During hard climbout after take off at about 35" MAP and 4800rpm, about 1000FPM.....the gearbox rose slowly to about 225F when I had reached about 7000 ft. I had to level off to let it cool off. OAT was about 45F MSL and about 32F at 10K.

When I reduce the climb to about 500fpm the box stayed at about 200F.

I have not added my second blast tube to the top of the gearbox yet, but I absolutely will do that on the next rainy day I cannot fly.
 
On long cross country flight from WA to KY

Im on a long cross country from WA to KY. Im in Pahrump NV. I will fly south of Las Vegas then folliw US40 east. So far so good. Im texting on my phone so ill keep it short.

Feel free to ask questions.
 
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