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Any reason for A&P to get a repairman certificate?

Cannon

Well Known Member
I?m a couple of years into my RV-8 build and have been documenting the build for the day I apply for my repairman certificate.

I?m not sure why it didn?t occur to me sooner, but since I already have an A&P, is there ANY reason to go through the hassle? I certainly don?t need any more certificates - I have more than enough already.

Chris
 
Only thing I can think of is if certificate action is taken against your AP you loose the ability to make money but could still sign off your CI. A bit of a stretch, but still a possibility.
 
Only thing I can think of is if certificate action is taken against your AP you loose the ability to make money but could still sign off your CI. A bit of a stretch, but still a possibility.
^^^This^^^

And of course, bragging rights.

 
Why

If you're one of those people that like collecting certificates go ahead. The feds will definitely appreciate the pointless paperwork and may start questioning your sanity and start looking into if you should continue to hold your privilege to have a A&P. Do not forget it is a privalege not a right and they can screw with you from many directions.
As a A&P you should know this. Would a MD get a RN degree? They could if they wanted to but why would they?
The only reason would be if you worried about certificate action against your A&P and if that's the case I doubt they'd want you near any airplane.
This sort of reminds me of the guy in a B-757 systems class when we were going through emergency landing gear extension. The instructor trying to make a joke said "don't ask how they retract the gear in a emergency". On cue one guy asked "why don't they have a emergency retraction?". There was always one of those guys in every class I attended.
 
I understand now, you're a professional pilot. Not a jab, no malice intended, just general animosity that exists between line maintenance airline guys and the pilots we have to deal with.
 
This sort of reminds me of the guy in a B-757 systems class when we were going through emergency landing gear extension. The instructor trying to make a joke said "don't ask how they retract the gear in a emergency". On cue one guy asked "why don't they have a emergency retraction?". There was always one of those guys in every class I attended.

We can?t stand those guys, either. Now imagine he?s your sim partner for 4 weeks... ugh.

I only work on my own airplanes, so I think I?m going to pass on the repairman cert. If I ball up an airplane because I screwed something up and the feds get involved, I?ll have bigger things to worry about than my A&P.

I?m taking enough pics to document the build for when my kids want to sell it, but I?m not going to go crazy anymore.

Thanks everyone.
 
It may make sense to use a repairman's certificate to sign off your 8 if you sell it to a idiot that does something stupid and the estate goes after you. Maybe it will protect your A&P, maybe not, couldn't hurt to get one but I'd wait for the smoke to clear because fed employees aren't very happy right now. That way your A&P number wouldn't be all over the log books, the estates's lawyer couldn't drag your expected higher qualification into the case. It's all about CYA. They might not ever know about your A&P. I'd get one and use it on the 8.
 
Rapairman's Cert

One reason the obtain a repairman's certificate for you build is that there is no currency requirement. I believe an A&P certificate does have currency requirements?

Skylor
 
It may make sense to use a repairman's certificate to sign off your 8 if you sell it to a idiot that does something stupid and the estate goes after you. Maybe it will protect your A&P, maybe not, couldn't hurt to get one but I'd wait for the smoke to clear because fed employees aren't very happy right now. That way your A&P number wouldn't be all over the log books, the estates's lawyer couldn't drag your expected higher qualification into the case. It's all about CYA. They might not ever know about your A&P. I'd get one and use it on the 8.
Any lawyer who failed to do that sort of basic research would be bordering on malpractice. I wouldn't count on using a Repairman's certificate to avoid being found out as an A&P.
 
Keep in mind that documenting the build is for more than just getting a Repairman cert.
It is to also prove meeting the build requirements for being eligible for amateur built certification.
I do agree that there is no point in applying for the repairman cert.
 
I have an A&P license, but plan to get the repairman cert as well. An A&P license has a currency requirement, but as far as I know, a repairman cert does not. I figure it is better to have it and not need it.... doesnt hurt either way.
 
I?m not sure why it didn?t occur to me sooner, but since I already have an A&P, is there ANY reason to go through the hassle?

Chris

FAR 65.83 imposes a recent experience requirement on mechanics:

? 65.83 Recent experience requirements.
A certificated mechanic may not exercise the privileges of his certificate and rating unless, within the preceding 24 months -
(a) The Administrator has found that he is able to do that work; or
(b) He has, for at least 6 months -
(1) Served as a mechanic under his certificate and rating;
(2) Technically supervised other mechanics;
(3) Supervised, in an executive capacity, the maintenance or alteration of aircraft; or
(4) Been engaged in any combination of paragraph (b) (1), (2), or (3) of this section.

I'm not aware of a similar requirement imposed on repairmen.
 
FAR 65.83 imposes a recent experience requirement on mechanics:

? 65.83 Recent experience requirements.
A certificated mechanic may not exercise the privileges of his certificate and rating unless, within the preceding 24 months -
(a) The Administrator has found that he is able to do that work; or
(b) He has, for at least 6 months -
(1) Served as a mechanic under his certificate and rating;
(2) Technically supervised other mechanics;
(3) Supervised, in an executive capacity, the maintenance or alteration of aircraft; or
(4) Been engaged in any combination of paragraph (b) (1), (2), or (3) of this section.

I'm not aware of a similar requirement imposed on repairmen.


Thank you for posting, that is the wording I recall. I guess currency was the wrong term though.
 
FAR 65.83 imposes a recent experience requirement on mechanics:

? 65.83 Recent experience requirements.
A certificated mechanic may not exercise the privileges of his certificate and rating unless, within the preceding 24 months -
(a) The Administrator has found that he is able to do that work; or
(b) He has, for at least 6 months -
(1) Served as a mechanic under his certificate and rating;
(2) Technically supervised other mechanics;
(3) Supervised, in an executive capacity, the maintenance or alteration of aircraft; or
(4) Been engaged in any combination of paragraph (b) (1), (2), or (3) of this section.

I'm not aware of a similar requirement imposed on repairmen.

I am sure they changed the requirement for a repairman certificate but when I finished my plane, they automatically gave me the certificate so it was a no brainer;however, if you will reference (b)4, working on your own aircraft would qualify you for recent aircraft experience. That would be a good reason to get the certificate just to keep your A&P active.
 
however, if you will reference (b)4, working on your own aircraft would qualify you for recent aircraft experience.

Exactly

That would be a good reason to get the certificate just to keep your A&P active.

If working on your own aircraft met the recent experience qualification, I don't see why you would need the Repairman Cert to keep your A&P Cert. active.
By simply working on it (which you need no certificate at all to do) you are meeting the requirement.
I imagine that someone could argue that since the A&P Cert. is not required to work on an experimental (other than to do a condition inspection) that an A&P doing work on his own RV doesn't meet the "for at least 6 months" requirement.

I am employed full time as an A&P that works exclusively on experimental aircraft. I interface with the FAA regularly and they know that. They consider me an active A&P that meets the recent experience requirement.
 
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Last time I looked and spoke to the FSDO it did.

My post was meant in the context of anything needed to be done outside of actually working on an aircraft, to maintain currency (such as an IA renewal seminar, etc.).
If an A&P was maintaining and inspecting their own aircraft (or working on it during the build... leading up to certification), by definition they would be meeting the requirement without doing anything in addition to that.
In that context, a Repairman Certificate is not needed.
 
So is there a time limit after you finish the plane that you have to apply for the repairman's cert? Or can you do it anytime, even say 10yrs after first flight?
 
Get It

You've spent years and thousands of manhours manufacturing an airplane, why would you not expend the additional trivial effort (one form, show up at the FSDO with ID) to receive the Repairman's? Do it at the same time as completing the AW documentation.

Now it may just be that living in an aviation friendly state (Idaho) with a local sensible FSDO blinds me to the travails of some builders. But I think way too many slave over extensive documentation, ridiculously beyond what's needed to establish your 51% bonefides. For five builds, I never offered a photo of in-progress work, simply a holographic terse log of activity, later shifting to word-processed, but the content was no more expansive. No problem. With abundant witness, stacks of receipts, and shop-heating power bills, my builder status was never at issue. Don't waste time doing more than you NEED to do; put your time into doing something significant, like obtaining the RC.

Making a family heirloom album? Uh huh. No one, including the builder, is going to be interested five years hence.

Get off this thread and start riveting!

John Siebold
 
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So is there a time limit after you finish the plane that you have to apply for the repairman's cert? Or can you do it anytime, even say 10yrs after first flight?

My airplane is over 21-years old and I never applied for the repairman's certificate. Last time I looked, EAA recommended that A&Ps get the repairman's certificate for the airplane they built.

I know of one individual that applied for his repairman certificate after his airplane was one year old so that he could do and sign off the required Condition Inspection.
 
Don't waste time doing more than you NEED to do; put your time into doing something significant, like obtaining the RC.

I agree
The problem is that there is no established standard regarding what is needed.

You are required to have supporting documentation to convince the inspector you met the amateur built requirements.
I assure you there are instances where people had issues with specific inspectors in ways that don't match your experience.
I believe it is better to have too much, than not enough.......
 
Paragraph A, ?able to do that work??

I think that covers the issuance of a new A&P certificate.

If someone just received it, they don't have the requisite 6 months of work within the previous 24, but since the FAA just deemed them as meeting the requirements to receive the certificate, that is good enough.
 
I’m curious if there are any A&P’s here that have gotten a Repairman’s Certificate after they held an A&P. When I got my A&P, I was told by my FSDO that I would be unable to get any Repairman certificates in the future, and I seem to recall looking that up and finding out that he was speaking the truth. However, I can’t now find what I was looking at, and can not be sure that is correct. Of course, it would not be the first time that one FSDO disagreed with another, or that they gave a correct interpration to teh rules.

Regarding which number you put in the logbooks, all of my licenses - Airman and Mechanic - have the same number these days, so it doesn’t really make any difference. They know who you are.....
 
When I got my A&P, I was told by my FSDO that I would be unable to get any Repairman certificates in the future, and I seem to recall looking that up and finding out that he was speaking the truth.

Paul,

14 CFR 65.104 is the controlling regulation for this specific repairman certificate, and it does not contain any restriction or prohibition on issuing the certificate to a person who already holds a mechanic certificate.

I have never heard of anyone being denied a repairman certificate because they hold an A&P.
 
I?m curious if there are any A&P?s here that have gotten a Repairman?s Certificate after they held an A&P. When I got my A&P, I was told by my FSDO that I would be unable to get any Repairman certificates in the future, and I seem to recall looking that up and finding out that he was speaking the truth. However, I can?t now find what I was looking at, and can not be sure that is correct. Of course, it would not be the first time that one FSDO disagreed with another, or that they gave a correct interpration to teh rules.

Regarding which number you put in the logbooks, all of my licenses - Airman and Mechanic - have the same number these days, so it doesn?t really make any difference. They know who you are.....

Paul,

I had my A&P long before I build my 8. When I finished my 8 I went down the FSDO in Teterboro and asked for a Repairman certificate. Yes, he asked why. I told him I just felt like I only wanted to have my new number in the 8 logbook and not my A&P number. He agreed and issued me a Repairman Certificate.

My pilot license and a&p are the same number, but the repairman cert is different.

Does it...or will it make a difference ? Don?t know. But all the work I did working on Corporate Jets is entirely separate from my 8 which was what I wanted.
 
May be better than an OH

One thought ? Offer the privilege to the next person to encourage interested buyers when you sell your AC.
 
Absolutely

I?m a couple of years into my RV-8 build and have been documenting the build for the day I apply for my repairman certificate.

I?m not sure why it didn?t occur to me sooner, but since I already have an A&P, is there ANY reason to go through the hassle? I certainly don?t need any more certificates - I have more than enough already.

Chris
The answer is YES! get your repair as certificate. You earned it. And you are eligible.
 
Nope. EAB rules only ask for 51% of the plane built by amateurs. Doesn?t matter which amateur.

Sorry - the 51% rule pertains only to licensing the airplane, and not to the issuance of the Repairman certificate.

The person applying for the Repairman certificate must be named in the original list of builders, and must be able to satisfy the inspector who is goign to issue the certificate that they are familiar enough with the Aircraft to conduct its condition inspection.

Paul
 
Makes sense to me.

Sorry - the 51% rule pertains only to licensing the airplane, and not to the issuance of the Repairman certificate.

The person applying for the Repairman certificate must be named in the original list of builders, and must be able to satisfy the inspector who is goign to issue the certificate that they are familiar enough with the Aircraft to conduct its condition inspection.

Paul
 
The person applying for the Repairman certificate must be named in the original list of builders, and must be able to satisfy the inspector who is going to issue the certificate that they are familiar enough with the Aircraft to conduct its condition inspection.

Right on, Paul. 14 CFR 65.104 specifically states that the only person eligible for a repairman certificate for an amateur-built aircraft is the "primary builder of the aircraft". Too, that person must be able to "how to the satisfaction of the Administrator that the individual has the requisite skill to determine whether the aircraft is in a condition for safe operations". No second owners need apply.
 
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