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Andrew M

Well Known Member
Well I went and ordered the tail kit today. Please see what I have in mind here http://andrewsrv-9project.blogspot.com/. and let me know what you think of the "plan". I am really intrested in meeting 2010 or 2011 RV-9 (A) starts.
Thanks in advance for the brain power! I can't have too much, (as long as it is properly directed.;))
 
Welcome! It looks like you have done your homework as everything is planned out very well.

Have you thought about larger tires since it sounds like you'll be doing some "bushing"?
 
Ambitious

That an ambitious project Andrew! Will be very interesting to follow you ski and float modifications.
 
Hi Andrew...

Sounds as though you're looking to expand the RV-9's already great capabilities even further; that's why they're called "Experimental"! Please keep us updated on your mods (especially the "droopable ailerons") as they develop. Of course, any deviations from the plans tend to extend your build time, but that's a big part of the fun anyway. I do have one question (and this is in no way intended to sound negative): Why a low-wing design, given the rough operations that comprise part of your mission?
Anyway, congratulations, and happy building!
 
Off airport

My off airport stuff is limited to beaches, and gravel bars in the summer. And lakes in the winter, provided the snow isn't to deep. I was supprised how little my 1200lb Aeronce Cheif settled in deep snow. With a set of Landis 2000's, it sank about 6 to 10 inches in waist deep snow. Of course with the higher cruise speeds more airports will be availabe for half day flights. I will go back to my original promise to ny wife when I got the Chief. No off airport stuff for a year.
 
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as long as you know what you are doing...

i don't want to thwart you but your planned modifications sound somewhat major. they could have the potential to increase the building time by a factor of two or three. that factor also applies for the hazard of a project abort.

it's a huge task already, even if you build it with no deviations from the plans at all.

but you are an airframe guy, so i don't see a problem here. :)

have much fun and keep the community informed.

Kay
 
Just curious why you chose an RV. From the list of proposed mods, it appears that one of the high wing bush-oriented aircraft might meet your needs better.

Also, where would you hang the external cargo/lumber rack? Under the belly?

Also, if you plan to lengthen the gear or use significantly larger tires you'll also need to modify the engine mount to accommodate that, I think. While I've encountered RVs in the wild, and they've done just fine, it was always on actual back-country airstrips. I've never seen one off-airport.

Interesting project, good luck, and feel free to share your thoughts with us.

Thanks,
Dave
 
I agree...

as long as you know what you are doing...

i don't want to thwart you but your planned modifications sound somewhat major. they could have the potential to increase the building time by a factor of two or three. that factor also applies for the hazard of a project abort.

it's a huge task already, even if you build it with no deviations from the plans at all.

but you are an airframe guy, so i don't see a problem here. :)

have much fun and keep the community informed.

Kay


I fly an Air Tractor in which the ailerons droop to 7 degrees when the flaps are fully extended and the designed mechanical system to do that started on paper. To re-manufacture any RV to do that will take a complete redesign of Van's control system...no easy task. I supppose making the pivot point of the aileron bellcranks moveable as the flaps are lowered would be the easiest, the mechanics to do that will be quite an engineering feat.

Best,
 
What I'm thinking

Thanks everyone for your input. The common thread many of you expressed was addition of time and complexity. When I hear this from a few people its time to step back and really think about what I want and why.
First I want to go fast. If this means no bush work, I am O.K. Years ago the FAA put out a little safety flier that had preliminary accident data on the back page. Ninety percent of the incidents (in Alaska ) started with the phrase “ during off airport take off” or “landing”. The one year ban on that kind of flying when I got my first airplane gave me time to meet other pilots and get tips on that kind of work and plenty of time to get to know the airplane and how to practice in safer conditions. What can the nine do?
With 8.50 X6’s I can expect to go anywhere a 172 or 206 can go with the same tires. Beaches and gravel bars. Those tires have been put on a -9, and I expect to see that airplane before I purchase the gear legs. Flying in the fall (read hunting season ) the water level drops as things start to freeze. The surfaces are plentiful, the width required for low wing will be the bigger issue. If it were a matter of “ I want to go there”, it could be problematic. I just want to go someplace. And at 170 MPH there are more places to pick from.
Second, once having found a place to go, I might like to go back. Making a place to got back to can be beat out of what is already out there in a week or two, with the exception of floor and roof. The cargo rack has now been abandoned for hard points. Its like a two hole antenna mount on steroids to screw eyes into. I want to (try) to carry 2’X8’ plywood and tin roof. Enough to cover a 12’x12’ pole cabin in two or three trips. I think it can be done. (not that it should!) Other things to carry are, a dip net, kayak, fold a boat, sono tubes, a long shovel, or even aluminum poles for a large tent. The eyes come off, the holes get plugged and I am back to being speedy. Antennas will have to go up top. I got my practice mounting about 20 com antennas for fleet upgrades on a curved surface this year, so know by experience that each new mount will take 6 hours and each mirror image will take half that. Hard points tie to existing heavy members without adding any extras hole to that member. However extra rivets will go in the skin to “repair” the ¼” or 5/16” hole in the skin. Longer gear is not even considered. Moves the wheel back, forces a change in angle at the mount, changes the angle that the spring works. To complicated.
Third, stall fence. Seems to me Van tried this? Any one know anything about this? Making and installing the internal supports for this removable fence will again, be quick as this kind of thing is my life work and I already have lots stuff lying around.
Last. Aileron droop. At first I was trying to envision how to do this with dual controls between the control sticks. I’m pretty sure I have a workable solution (if it fits),but then quit that as I value simplicity (I’m lazy) I gave it up for pilots stick only. It has already been done, on the original RV-3. The picture I have doesn’t show much, just where, and that it works. With this I have dreamed up three basic ways to do this, but until I have existing parts in hand, further development is just not doable. I have worked on the Robertson stol conversion and I imagine this is what the Ag cat has. To much monkey motion!
The one thing you guys missed is for the ski’s. The twisting load put on this or any gear during a slow taxi or ground handling can be considerable. How big are the gear mount bolts?
If a 200 MPH Super cub were available, I wouldn’t be building this. An argument can be made that the PA-18 was originally a piece of farm equipment, judging by the spray equipment found in the factory parts book. Look how far it has come. How far can the -9 go? Stretching this airplanes usefulness just a little sounds exciting. I don’t think I am really proposing to do that much. An avionic upgrade would be more mentally taxing for me. The rivet gods I have appeased, the demon electrons, not so much.
Thanks again for helping me flush out these ideas, as time thinking and not sleeping is better spent than time lost losing sleep, over time spent uselessly. (I'm a sheetmetal guy, not a writer!)
 
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Andrew (et al)

Re Droop Ailerons, as Pierre says, difficult to do if linked with Flaps. However, if done independently, not necessarily so ;) and has been done before: Link to RV-3 prototype article which includes a (poor) picture of the mechanism. Also a quick discussion on VAF Link with a further link.

Whether an RV-9 needs/benefits from such Ailerons is a moot point, it lands so slowly anyway!

Andy
RV-8 G-HILZ
RV-8tors
 
in case you're not a mastermind.... i believe that you will have no joy with your planned project. take the advice, buy a piper cup, live with the lower speed and be happy with it.
 
sounds like you really need two planes...

you really need two planes for the mission profile that you are dreaming of... trying to turn a -9 into a super cub is beyond ambitious; there are simply too many compromises for the flight profiles to mesh with reality. rethink the -9 and make sure that it is really the plane for you.

i have a similar interest in slow, ski, off airport work but it will be in a super cub or variant of some kind, perhaps a rans s7 to go along with my -7... but that is for another day! the -7 is simply amazing and commands all of my flying interest :)
 
This advice worth what you paid for it...

I'll be first to admit I'm far from an expert, but hey, it's an Internet forum... anyone can be an expert! ;)

I have time in both Supercubs and RV's. They are quite different. When I hear things like "gravel bars" and "hauling lumber" I think Supercub, not RV. Of course, when I hear "170 mph" I think anything but Supercub! I love the plane, and dearly wish I could afford two so I could have one, but speed is not it's strong point.

Your RV9 plans are ambitious. Personally, I don't think your mission suits the airframe. Through significant effort, time, money, and compromise, you may be able to do what you want with it... maybe not.

Have you considered other homebuilts? Check these out...

http://www.dreamaircraft.com/site/index.php?lang=EN

http://www.bearhawkaircraft.com/

http://www.glasairaviation.com/

http://www.cubcrafters.com/kits

All of these are probably better suited to your mission (I say without having flown any of them, so take with a grain of salt), and some will still travel at a pretty good clip. You said something to the effect that if there were a 200hp Supercub, you wouldn't be looking at the RV9. That configuration may be available in one of these.

RV's are pretty awesome, and hard to beat in their role, but they aren't the best gravel bar, ski equipped lumber haulers.

All that said, I have been regularly amazed at the innovation builders have shown. Please keep us in the loop on your journey.
 
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