Van's Air Force
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Why don't pilots ride with other pilots?
- Thread starter Ron Lee
- Start date
Pilots want to be pilots, not passengers.
I'm convinced that the reason my wife won't fly with me is because she doesn't know how to fly, and therefor cannot "right seat drive".
"Don't you think you should have used 10 degrees on that takeoff?"
"You're a half mile off track, you know that, right?"
"When was the last time you did a VOR check?"
"You're 3 minutes past due for fuel tank change."
"You were a little low on that approach..."
I'm convinced that the reason my wife won't fly with me is because she doesn't know how to fly, and therefor cannot "right seat drive".
"Don't you think you should have used 10 degrees on that takeoff?"
"You're a half mile off track, you know that, right?"
"When was the last time you did a VOR check?"
"You're 3 minutes past due for fuel tank change."
"You were a little low on that approach..."
I think in some cases it similar to riding motorcycles. You don't see four guys on two motorcycles do you? Everybody wants to drive. That's why they built the thing! Now on long trips I think people double up.
N941WR
Legacy Member
Greg, that was good!
The other day I flew with a friend in an LSA he rents and it took every bit of willpower in my body not to put my feet on the rudder pedals and follow him on the stick as we approached the pattern. I've let a number of people fly my plane but other than a CFI friend/RV-7 owner, I'm the only one who has ever landed it.
The other thing I have found, and I'm not afraid to mention this, sometimes I get a little nauseous if I'm not the one flying. I've always wondered if other pilots have that same problem.
The other day I flew with a friend in an LSA he rents and it took every bit of willpower in my body not to put my feet on the rudder pedals and follow him on the stick as we approached the pattern. I've let a number of people fly my plane but other than a CFI friend/RV-7 owner, I'm the only one who has ever landed it.
The other thing I have found, and I'm not afraid to mention this, sometimes I get a little nauseous if I'm not the one flying. I've always wondered if other pilots have that same problem.
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
I don't get nauseous, unless it's aerobatic type flying in a Pitt's S2B, SF260, or perhaps an aerobatic glider. I think the "brain" has to prepare a few seconds before the maneuver!
L.Adamson
We are good, aren't we?
To paraphrase Garrison Keillor, "all the pilots are above average." At least we like to think we are. Yet we know pilots we look up to, those whose skills we really respect. I have no trouble at all flying with them at the controls but admit to not feeling real comfortable with someone who is probably of equal skills to myself. I really am uncomfortable with another pilot who has much less time than I do. No real reason why, but I admit it.
Bob Kelly
To paraphrase Garrison Keillor, "all the pilots are above average." At least we like to think we are. Yet we know pilots we look up to, those whose skills we really respect. I have no trouble at all flying with them at the controls but admit to not feeling real comfortable with someone who is probably of equal skills to myself. I really am uncomfortable with another pilot who has much less time than I do. No real reason why, but I admit it.
Bob Kelly
I hate flying commercial. I DO NOT like roller coasters. It IS a control thing.
My friend had to take his private checkride three times and was in training for years and years and finally got his ticket after 150 hours. I noticed while I was on short approach that his feet and hands were 'hovering' over the controls.
I didn't know whether to laugh or slap him.
My friend had to take his private checkride three times and was in training for years and years and finally got his ticket after 150 hours. I noticed while I was on short approach that his feet and hands were 'hovering' over the controls.
I didn't know whether to laugh or slap him.
rvmills
Well Known Member
Definitely a trust thing!
I enjoy flying with buds...but as others have said, trust is the key (in both the the pilot and his/her airplane!). If that's not there, well, just not happenin'.
Sometimes it affords the opportunity to fly a new aircraft type...recently had the good fortune to fly a Nanchang CJ, an RV-9A, and a tailwheel-converted Grumman AA-1B...all firsts. Always fun when the other guy utters those three magic words, "you've got it". And if they let you land their airplane, it's sure a good bet the trust is mutual.
As another poster said, riding in the back seat...one without controls...that's a whole 'nuther story!
Sounds like we're all cut from the same cloth!
Cheers,
Bob Mills
"Rocket" RV-6
N600SS
4SD
I enjoy flying with buds...but as others have said, trust is the key (in both the the pilot and his/her airplane!). If that's not there, well, just not happenin'.
Sometimes it affords the opportunity to fly a new aircraft type...recently had the good fortune to fly a Nanchang CJ, an RV-9A, and a tailwheel-converted Grumman AA-1B...all firsts. Always fun when the other guy utters those three magic words, "you've got it". And if they let you land their airplane, it's sure a good bet the trust is mutual.
As another poster said, riding in the back seat...one without controls...that's a whole 'nuther story!
Sounds like we're all cut from the same cloth!
Cheers,
Bob Mills
"Rocket" RV-6
N600SS
4SD
jetjok
Well Known Member
I enjoy flying with buds...but as others have said, trust is the key (in both the the pilot and his/her airplane!). If that's not there, well, just not happenin'.
Sometimes it affords the opportunity to fly a new aircraft type...recently had the good fortune to fly a Nanchang CJ, an RV-9A, and a tailwheel-converted Grumman AA-1B...all firsts. Always fun when the other guy utters those three magic words, "you've got it". And if they let you land their airplane, it's sure a good bet the trust is mutual.
As another poster said, riding in the back seat...one without controls...that's a whole 'nuther story!
Sounds like we're all cut from the same cloth!
I hear you! I never miss a chance to go riding with a buddy, and usually get some stick time out of the deal. If I happen to ride with someone that I do not know well, I am on high alert until we are at an altitude where I can let my guard down. Also, with the exception of one particular plane, I have never jumped into an aircraft where I did not have some basic controls. The exception you ask? A MUSTANG!! I figured that if the good Lord decided that it was my time, I knew I would be going with a smile on my face. A Mustang grin is right up there with the RV grin!
Bryan Wood
Well Known Member
Flying with strangers
Back in the days of doing GA Avionics I rode with a lot of strangers, or rather people that I only knew as customers. Often times doing business with them meant riding with them for one reason or another and it always amazed me who was allowed to fly and apparently passed fight reviews. Notable flights included:
1. A plumbing contractor who was a giant of a man wearing the entire cowboy getup down to Hoss's hat from the old TV show Bonanza. This guy was behind his airplane from the time we were putting on our seat belts. He had enormous feet and they had cowboy boots on them that were so long they kept hanging up on wires and the like under the panel. Seriously! After landing I was actually greatful for getting thru it.
2. Another was with a guy that started apologizing for not being a good pilot as we were rolling onto the runway for takeoff. He said that he hardly ever flew and that he knew it was about time for him to hang it up. He went on about his landings, his memory, disorientation, etc. All of this while I'm in the back seat of all things. While flying with him I learned that he was right, he sucked as a pilot and that was another time that being on the ground was a good thing.
3. Flying with a Reno Race Pilot to test a 172 autopilot, (I know they don't seem to go together, but he needed this plane fixed) he found out that I was taking lessons. He did hammerheads, and spins in the 172 with me right there next to him with my eyes locked onto the placard stating "Not approved for spins." After several of these he told me that since my instructor wouldn't be teaching me spin recovery he was going to. I did two and still couldn't get my eyes off the placard. He then went up to about
5,000' or so and pulled the prop to idle and then pulled the mixture. After trimming for best glide he purposely held the nose up to slow us down until the prop stopped. Then nose over for best glide again. He then said to fly the plane and see that it doesn't know that it has an engine up there so I did. We lazily glided and decended when he told me that he never wanted to hear of me losing an engine and panicking because the plane will fly just fine. So he pushed the mixture forward and bumped the starter and the engine caught and with throttle he climbed up and did it again. Only this time after stopping the prop he said that if you have enough altitude a dive will get the prop spinning again if for some reason the starter won't work. He gave homebuilts without starters as an example of why knowing this is important which he said he flew all the time. So with a dead engine and a stopped prop he told me the approx. speed that a 172 will have the prop start spinning again and forward went the yoke. A 172 in a near vertical dive is not much faster than a 172 in level flight if any of you are wondering, and it took a long time in this plane to hit the 140mph or whatever it was to start the prop spinning. With the mixture rich it fired and we were climbing again a short time later. The crazy thing about this is that after we landed I jumped into a 210 with him and he showed me an autopilot glitch in that also. I thought this guy was way better than my instructor and jumped right back in. Amazing.
4. A ride in a 182 with a very, very old man. Again, another test flight of sorts and as we taxied out he had the seat all the way forward in his 182 and he leaned over the yoke and his chin was about even with the glareshield. Good Lord, was this guy blind or something? I could see him squinting and he was leaned so far forward that he did everything with his right hand by feel. He never checked to see what switch or whatever he was moving. Skipping ahead, he is now smoking a cigerette just holding it in his lips, the plane is getting harder to breathe in and we are turning final. He is even closer to the windshield now with his face and the last mile of this flight has the stall warning horn blaring in the cockpit. Tempting fate and riding with the customers has obviously caught up to me this time and I'm feeling real fear, even terror as we approach the mall on short final. The fence passes under us and we touch down and make the first turnoff. As we taxi in he starts talking with the cigarette flopping up and down in his lips. He asked if that scared me and I said that it did. He laughed without losing the cigarette and told me that he was a retired carrier pilot and that most likely I had just experienced the best landing that I would ever have the priveledge of experiencing. Whatever, just let me out of this thing.
The list goes on and on. Nowadays, I choose to fly myself!
Back in the days of doing GA Avionics I rode with a lot of strangers, or rather people that I only knew as customers. Often times doing business with them meant riding with them for one reason or another and it always amazed me who was allowed to fly and apparently passed fight reviews. Notable flights included:
1. A plumbing contractor who was a giant of a man wearing the entire cowboy getup down to Hoss's hat from the old TV show Bonanza. This guy was behind his airplane from the time we were putting on our seat belts. He had enormous feet and they had cowboy boots on them that were so long they kept hanging up on wires and the like under the panel. Seriously! After landing I was actually greatful for getting thru it.
2. Another was with a guy that started apologizing for not being a good pilot as we were rolling onto the runway for takeoff. He said that he hardly ever flew and that he knew it was about time for him to hang it up. He went on about his landings, his memory, disorientation, etc. All of this while I'm in the back seat of all things. While flying with him I learned that he was right, he sucked as a pilot and that was another time that being on the ground was a good thing.
3. Flying with a Reno Race Pilot to test a 172 autopilot, (I know they don't seem to go together, but he needed this plane fixed) he found out that I was taking lessons. He did hammerheads, and spins in the 172 with me right there next to him with my eyes locked onto the placard stating "Not approved for spins." After several of these he told me that since my instructor wouldn't be teaching me spin recovery he was going to. I did two and still couldn't get my eyes off the placard. He then went up to about
5,000' or so and pulled the prop to idle and then pulled the mixture. After trimming for best glide he purposely held the nose up to slow us down until the prop stopped. Then nose over for best glide again. He then said to fly the plane and see that it doesn't know that it has an engine up there so I did. We lazily glided and decended when he told me that he never wanted to hear of me losing an engine and panicking because the plane will fly just fine. So he pushed the mixture forward and bumped the starter and the engine caught and with throttle he climbed up and did it again.
Only this time after stopping the prop he said that if you have enough altitude a dive will get the prop spinning again if for some reason the starter won't work. He gave homebuilts without starters as an example of why knowing this is important which he said he flew all the time. So with a dead engine and a stopped prop he told me the approx. speed that a 172 will have the prop start spinning again and forward went the yoke. A 172 in a near vertical dive is not much faster than a 172 in level flight if any of you are wondering, and it took a long time in this plane to hit the 140mph or whatever it was to start the prop spinning. With the mixture rich it fired and we were climbing again a short time later. The crazy thing about this is that after we landed I jumped into a 210 with him and he showed me an autopilot glitch in that also. I thought this guy was way better than my instructor and jumped right back in. Amazing.4. A ride in a 182 with a very, very old man. Again, another test flight of sorts and as we taxied out he had the seat all the way forward in his 182 and he leaned over the yoke and his chin was about even with the glareshield. Good Lord, was this guy blind or something? I could see him squinting and he was leaned so far forward that he did everything with his right hand by feel. He never checked to see what switch or whatever he was moving. Skipping ahead, he is now smoking a cigerette just holding it in his lips, the plane is getting harder to breathe in and we are turning final. He is even closer to the windshield now with his face and the last mile of this flight has the stall warning horn blaring in the cockpit. Tempting fate and riding with the customers has obviously caught up to me this time and I'm feeling real fear, even terror as we approach the mall on short final. The fence passes under us and we touch down and make the first turnoff. As we taxi in he starts talking with the cigarette flopping up and down in his lips. He asked if that scared me and I said that it did. He laughed without losing the cigarette and told me that he was a retired carrier pilot and that most likely I had just experienced the best landing that I would ever have the priveledge of experiencing.
Whatever, just let me out of this thing. The list goes on and on. Nowadays, I choose to fly myself!
It's a guy thing?
When riding in a car, I too would rather be the driver. Never liked being a passenger on a motorcycle. When I'm driving the car, I can't help but notice that in all the other cars, if there is more than one adult in it, it has a male driver. So maybe it's a guy thing, a control thing, but likely just a trust thing.
Bevan
When riding in a car, I too would rather be the driver. Never liked being a passenger on a motorcycle. When I'm driving the car, I can't help but notice that in all the other cars, if there is more than one adult in it, it has a male driver. So maybe it's a guy thing, a control thing, but likely just a trust thing.
Bevan
Dennis Madden
Active Member
still laughing...
This one made me laugh pretty hard... ;-)
I think I married you wifes sister... LOL
DM
This one made me laugh pretty hard... ;-)
I think I married you wifes sister... LOL
DM
alpinelakespilot2000
Well Known Member
I won't fly with another pilot unless I know the person well and trust their judgement. I don't have any interest in putting my life in someone else's hands. It's the same reason I don't have any interest in flying formation, even with others who are supposedly competent in doing so. Sometimes I miss out on rides here or there, but I can live with that.
BTW, Bill R.- I too will sometimes get nauseous as a passenger if I haven't flown myself in a long while. I'll also very likely get sick in a small plane if I sit in the back seat from which I can't see the horizon in front of me, and that's regardless of whether I've flown recently or not.
BTW, Bill R.- I too will sometimes get nauseous as a passenger if I haven't flown myself in a long while. I'll also very likely get sick in a small plane if I sit in the back seat from which I can't see the horizon in front of me, and that's regardless of whether I've flown recently or not.
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I'm not a pilot yet, but on a related note, I hate being in the KC-10 when another boom operator is flying the boom. Whether I'm up front in the cabin watching passengers, or back in the ARO station sitting next to the other boom operator, I can't stand it.
I also dislike being a passenger in cars... maybe it's all related???
I also dislike being a passenger in cars... maybe it's all related???
Steve Brown
Well Known Member
Control
I want it.
I've only flown with one other pilot who was not a CFI. He was the previous owner/builder of my current airplane.
I had a lot of apprehension in advance, but once in the cockpit he inspired confidence that he knew what he was doing, and he did.
I wish I could say the same of all the CFI's I've flown with. Most good, but a couple I've vowed never to fly with again. Since they are pro's it makes me think there are a lot of private pilots out there I wouldn't want to fly with.
I want it.
I've only flown with one other pilot who was not a CFI. He was the previous owner/builder of my current airplane.
I had a lot of apprehension in advance, but once in the cockpit he inspired confidence that he knew what he was doing, and he did.
I wish I could say the same of all the CFI's I've flown with. Most good, but a couple I've vowed never to fly with again. Since they are pro's it makes me think there are a lot of private pilots out there I wouldn't want to fly with.
Surprised!
As a student pilot, ALL of my flying has been with other pilots. I would never give up the experiences I have had as a passenger - RV-8 (lots, thanks LB), Rocket, Waco, Cub, Cessna 182, Sea-Rey, Robinson R-22, Varga Kachina
I look at the good will generated by rides given by Doug Reeves, Dan Checkoway, Paul Rosales (just to name a few).
Should I quit helping with the Young Eagles? (rhetorical)
If you think I'll stop "bumming rides" once I complete my training, you're crazy!
And while we're on the topic, anybody available to ferry me 375 nautical miles one-way from KINT to KSGJ on Sunday June 22? I'm buyin'!
As a student pilot, ALL of my flying has been with other pilots. I would never give up the experiences I have had as a passenger - RV-8 (lots, thanks LB), Rocket, Waco, Cub, Cessna 182, Sea-Rey, Robinson R-22, Varga Kachina
I look at the good will generated by rides given by Doug Reeves, Dan Checkoway, Paul Rosales (just to name a few).
Should I quit helping with the Young Eagles? (rhetorical)
If you think I'll stop "bumming rides" once I complete my training, you're crazy!
And while we're on the topic, anybody available to ferry me 375 nautical miles one-way from KINT to KSGJ on Sunday June 22? I'm buyin'!
f117fte
Active Member
It's not a guy thing.... Trust me
It’s just me and the plane. Flying when the air is so still in the morning and the plane just jumps off the runway and climbs at 1500 ft/min….. The turn to crosswind with the wing up and you are just cruising …..You do some S-turns and the plane just responds. It’s just beautiful.
I watch the sunset as I’m flying home across the desert and it’s just me and the engine noise but it’s so quiet… How can it be with the hum of the engine... but it is. You come in for landing and you don't even feel it touch the runway..... and all you can do is smile...... You'll smile the rest of the evening cause it was a perfect day. Only your flying buddies can relate... Cause they are smiling too..... cause they were behind you on the overhead break
It's definitely not a guy thing. .. It's just me.... and my plane..........
Mercedes
RV-6A
It’s just me and the plane. Flying when the air is so still in the morning and the plane just jumps off the runway and climbs at 1500 ft/min….. The turn to crosswind with the wing up and you are just cruising …..You do some S-turns and the plane just responds. It’s just beautiful.
I watch the sunset as I’m flying home across the desert and it’s just me and the engine noise but it’s so quiet… How can it be with the hum of the engine... but it is. You come in for landing and you don't even feel it touch the runway..... and all you can do is smile...... You'll smile the rest of the evening cause it was a perfect day. Only your flying buddies can relate... Cause they are smiling too..... cause they were behind you on the overhead break
It's definitely not a guy thing. .. It's just me.... and my plane..........
Mercedes
RV-6A
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pierre smith
Well Known Member
I enjoy others....
....I've instructed here. Probably 60 or 70 guys have been down here and they all fly differently, from precise control handling to really sloppy so I remain on guard. It nevertheless has been fun relating to all the other RV builders from all walks of life. Be choosy with who you fly though, and especially who you'll let your children go with!
Yeah, that back seat ride in a P-51 with my late boss was a thrill, especially when I almost blacked out in an Immelman from ground level at over 400 MPH!
Regards,
....I've instructed here. Probably 60 or 70 guys have been down here and they all fly differently, from precise control handling to really sloppy so I remain on guard. It nevertheless has been fun relating to all the other RV builders from all walks of life. Be choosy with who you fly though, and especially who you'll let your children go with!
Yeah, that back seat ride in a P-51 with my late boss was a thrill, especially when I almost blacked out in an Immelman from ground level at over 400 MPH!
Regards,
Louise Hose
Well Known Member
Sometimes, I prefer to learn from others
It certainly isn't a "guy" thing. Like Mercedes, I prefer to fly than ride (especially over riding in the back of a tandam). I also prefer to drive. So does my dear husband. But, we trade off.
I've ridden a lot with both Paul and Larry Pardue. Both are excellent and far more skilled pilots than me. I bet at least 30% of my skills and practical knowledge in flying has come from them. I think it's a great opportunity to fly as a passenger with skilled pilots.
And, yes, I do remind Paul that his fuel pump is still on or that the field TPA is non-standard. We think of it as teamwork.
It certainly isn't a "guy" thing. Like Mercedes, I prefer to fly than ride (especially over riding in the back of a tandam
). I also prefer to drive. So does my dear husband. But, we trade off.I've ridden a lot with both Paul and Larry Pardue. Both are excellent and far more skilled pilots than me. I bet at least 30% of my skills and practical knowledge in flying has come from them. I think it's a great opportunity to fly as a passenger with skilled pilots.
And, yes, I do remind Paul that his fuel pump is still on or that the field TPA is non-standard. We think of it as teamwork.
wickedsprint
Well Known Member
It all depends on how much horsing around the other pilot wants to do, if it's a normal joyride around the local area I could care less who I'm riding with...if they feel like yanking and banking, they can do it without me as I have a weak stomache for other pilot's antics. Now if we're talking about flying in the back of a tandem with no controls...no dice.
Red Voodoo
Well Known Member
After over thirty years of riding motorcycles (sometimes as my only vehicle) I felt perfectly at ease with them. Always on alert from danger from ?cagers?, but quite comfortable. Then, a few years back, I had occasion to ride on the back of a friend?s (another long-time, very experienced rider) Goldwing. I was terrified the whole of the 2-mile trip. I didn?t need a shrink to tell me it was because I wasn?t in control.
At the time, this incident caused me to reflect back on my first light aircraft flight. It was maybe 15 years before, with a good friend who was a CFI. Just tagging along on a local practice flight; nothing extreme. I had a death grip on the edge of my seat the whole time. I don?t think I EVER relaxed. It was that experience that made me decide to get my pilot?s license; I realized that it was the feeling of no being in control of what was happening that had me so tense.
Many of the comments made in this thread reinforce the notion that the feeling of being completely in someone else?s hands makes many of us uncomfortable. As for me, I now have no problem being another pilot?s passenger? but you?ll never get me on the back of a motorcycle again!
So Ron Lee, you are definitely not alone.
At the time, this incident caused me to reflect back on my first light aircraft flight. It was maybe 15 years before, with a good friend who was a CFI. Just tagging along on a local practice flight; nothing extreme. I had a death grip on the edge of my seat the whole time. I don?t think I EVER relaxed. It was that experience that made me decide to get my pilot?s license; I realized that it was the feeling of no being in control of what was happening that had me so tense.
Many of the comments made in this thread reinforce the notion that the feeling of being completely in someone else?s hands makes many of us uncomfortable. As for me, I now have no problem being another pilot?s passenger? but you?ll never get me on the back of a motorcycle again!
So Ron Lee, you are definitely not alone.
Frank Smidler
Well Known Member
Bryan,
When I was 18 I wanted to see what it was like to fly a 1960 Cessna 172 with the engine stopped. So on my own I went up to 6,000 feet, shut off the engine and glided down to 4,000 feet. I also just stuck the nose down until the prop started turning, turned on the mags and pushed the mixture in and flew on. In Indiana I wasn't too concerned about finding somewhere to land, we have plenty of flat fields. FYI, I later got my glider rating and I think it was one of the best ways to become a better pilot and become confident that I can land an airplane with a dead engine.
Back to the subject of flying with another pilot. With a 1000 skydives, I have flown with a lot of other pilots. Some, like ex P-51 pilot Bob, was without trepedation. But, there were a few that I was glad to get out of the plane and not have to land with them. Usually on the next load I'd try to get by the door for a quick exit.
That brings back memories!
When I was back in high school and didn't know any better, I was taking skydiving lessons at a little strip in West Texas. The pilot was about 3/4 nuts and would regularly take off with barely enough fuel to make the round trip, often landing on fumes. On one trip up to 12,500', he absolutely, literally, ran out of fuel at about 11,300 or so, threw open the door and hollered "Everybody out!" with a big goofy grin on his face as the prop slowly windmilled to a stop. That's one time I was glad I had an alternative to landing with him.
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rodcritt
Member
Ouch
My wife smacked me in the back of head for what you said. I told her I was laughing because it was funny. Not because SHE does that.
My wife smacked me in the back of head for what you said. I told her I was laughing because it was funny. Not because SHE does that.
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roadrunner20
Well Known Member
I believe it's a CONTROL thing.
I love to drive motorcycles but will never be a passenger.
I don't mind other/better pilots in the left seat but prefer to do it myself.
I love to drive motorcycles but will never be a passenger.
I don't mind other/better pilots in the left seat but prefer to do it myself.
n5lp
fugio ergo sum
It can be rewarding
I certainly pick and choose. There are quite a few I won't ride with, period, because of their war stories. If they got themselves in that situation I'm not going.
There are others I will go with, as long as I'm in the front seat, even though that can be a perilous position. You are not PIC and if you feel the need to "help" your legal position is precarious in the event of an incident.
When you do choose to ride, it can be rewarding over time. From the right seat I have seen people who were quite unfinished, through persistence, improve to the point where I was very relaxed riding with them. Neat experience and not to be missed!
I certainly pick and choose. There are quite a few I won't ride with, period, because of their war stories. If they got themselves in that situation I'm not going.
There are others I will go with, as long as I'm in the front seat, even though that can be a perilous position. You are not PIC and if you feel the need to "help" your legal position is precarious in the event of an incident.
When you do choose to ride, it can be rewarding over time. From the right seat I have seen people who were quite unfinished, through persistence, improve to the point where I was very relaxed riding with them. Neat experience and not to be missed!
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