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Real Men Don't Paint...

Piper J3

Well Known Member
I?m starting my Annual Condition Inspection and needed to access the transponder wiring for ADS-B. While I had the Avionics Bay Cover removed, I decided to strip the paint and apply 3m 2080 Gloss White Vinyl. Easy job ? just take your time. Looks like white gelcoat on a high-end fiberglass boat.
I use Stainless Steel conical washers so flathead screws won?t twist the vinyl on tightening?





 
Wondering what the life expectancy is on vinyl wrap on a hangared plane? What does it do for weight compared to paint, on a whole RV-12?
 
That looks beautiful! Way better than I'm ever going to paint it.

Do you have a ballpark estimate of what it would cost to buy enough to cover a plane versus having it pro painted? More? Less?

Also, and this might be tough to estimate, but any guess on weight? Is it lighter or heavier than the same surface primed and painted well?
 
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Hey Jim ... where's you get the SS conical washers?
I put 3M vinyl on the panel face & will similarly need washers since the center section of the panel has countersunk holes. Thanks
 
I would imagine, on a hangered airplane, the vinyl would last a very long time with no degradation. I don?t know first-hand, but many folks have said vinyl is less weight than paint. From what I see, this appears true.

My horizontal/vertical tail surfaces and turtle deck are vinyl covered. What?s kind of neat about vinyl on an airplane Vs. car is airplanes already have lots of seams. You can match vinyl pieces to aluminum pieces parts or even make new seams out in the middle of a large piece without calling much attention. Seams can be butt splice or overlap. I use overlap seams made using 3M ?knifeless? tape. The tape has a Kevlar cutting thread. Overlap can face into the ?wind? with no problem at aircraft speed.

Vinyl comes in 5? wide roll. 3M is best brand. 2080 is 3M?s newest product. Buy on eBay or Amazon. If I was building a new airplane I would 100% vinyl wrap. No paint mess ? wrap the plane in your shop as you build. Great building incentive to see parts finished in full color. Maybe enlist an artist to design something really wild with fluorescent colors?

See? http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=172571
 
My -7 is covered in 3M 1080. Took a day to wrap it and $1200 worth of vinyl. Over 2 years old and looks new. Has always been hangered though, and I don't know how well it would fare to the elements.[ROyxark.jpg](https://postimg.cc/F17pLQnx)
 
Looks kind of similar to SS grade cabinet finish washers, but the cabinet versions provide the countersink feature already
.

Countersink angles on pretty much all general hardware (screws, washers, etc.) outside of aviation are 82 deg instead of 100.
 
I just watched a few of the videos that were linked above regarding the 3M 2080 vinyl. I was wondering if someone could share what surface prep is required before wrapping? I assume a good wipe down with panel wipe first, but scuffing, priming, etc? (In the cold and damp UK, not Arizona!)

I reckon I could have a good stab at wrapping rather than painting, with better results...

Thanks.
 
I just finished wrapping my -10 about 6 months ago and will say, it's much better than painting. It's not as forgiving as paint but is much cleaner. Surface prep is very important, use 90% ISO alcohol and lint free micro towels. Trying a few test parts will help too. 3M makes very good vinyl but Avery has better stuff for complex curves and sharp forms.





 
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I used green Scotch-Brite to knock off any pimples/bugs and then a wipe with 90% isopropyl alcohol. Requires practice to develop technique. Probably best to get professional help if unfamiliar before taking on such a "large" project.
 
I just finished wrapping my -10 about 6 months ago and will say, it's much better than painting. It's not as forgiving as paint but is much cleaner. Surface prep is very important, use 90% ISO alcohol and lint free micro towels. Trying a few test parts will help too. 3M makes very good vinyl but Avery has better stuff for complex curves and sharp forms.

Curious, did you use 1080 or 2080? 3M site says the newer 2080 is "Highly conformable and great cold stretch, better than 3M? Wrap Film Series 1080." Or is the Avery even better still?
 
Curious, did you use 1080 or 2080? 3M site says the newer 2080 is "Highly conformable and great cold stretch, better than 3M? Wrap Film Series 1080." Or is the Avery even better still?

I used the 3M 1080 on most of the flat surfaces. I ended up using the Avery on the horizontal stabilizer because I really wanted to wrap it using one piece of film. The 3M just couldn't make the tight radius at the ends of the stabilizer.
 
Update: I just reinstalled the avionics bay cover and looks really good. Now I want to wrap the top cowling. I think it can be done with a single piece of vinyl. I haven?t done anything with compound curves so I?ll wait for warm weather when material is more pliable. I have seen YouTube videos where hot air gun or open-flame Bernzomatic torch is used to facilitate stretching. Probably take until warm weather just to work up my nerve?

 
I used the 3M 1080 on most of the flat surfaces. I ended up using the Avery on the horizontal stabilizer because I really wanted to wrap it using one piece of film. The 3M just couldn't make the tight radius at the ends of the stabilizer.

How well did the colors match? I was afraid to try two sources because of color matching.
 
The white on the -7 as well as the striping is vinyl. One sheet for the top of the wing and one on the bottom. One sheet on each side of the fuselage fuselage split down the middle. The only seam there is aft of the slider track. Striping is accomplished using 3M knifeless tape.
 
The white on the -7 as well as the striping is vinyl. One sheet for the top of the wing and one on the bottom. One sheet on each side of the fuselage fuselage split down the middle. The only seam there is aft of the slider track. Striping is accomplished using 3M knifeless tape.

And all that was accomplished in one day per post #8?

Done professionally?

Cost for labor?
 
Update: I just reinstalled the avionics bay cover and looks really good. Now I want to wrap the top cowling. I think it can be done with a single piece of vinyl. I haven?t done anything with compound curves so I?ll wait for warm weather when material is more pliable. I have seen YouTube videos where hot air gun or open-flame Bernzomatic torch is used to facilitate stretching. Probably take until warm weather just to work up my nerve?


Jim-
Your top cowl will be very easy to do with one piece. Start off working from the middle out, not much heat will be necessary on that shape. Stay away from torches, no need for them. My heat gun is only turned up half way and I only use it on real tight surfaces. Cold stretching the film is your friend.
 
How well did the colors match? I was afraid to try two sources because of color matching.

with white film, they're all pretty much the same. I also don't have the two different ones right next to each other.
 
Printing and vinyl

Things in the industry have moved right along with the vinyl. Many print shops will have a latex printer (not solvent based) that can produce high resolution artwork on vinyl and along with a protective laminate, create a sandwich that can be used to wrap complex surfaces. Used all the time with vehicles.

I've experimented with vinyl prints through weprintwraps.com out of Phoenix. The quality is good - can go with matte or gloss images. Pricing is good too.

While I'm currently working on creating a console for my RV14a and wrapping the aluminum sides with the printed vinyl, I intend to do larger artwork on the vertical stabilizer and cowling.

I'll provide photos once installed.
 
Corrosion under wrap?

Maybe asked before, but...

Will the wrap keep moisture from collecting between wrap and the bare aluminum?
 
Jim,
Yes we covered the -7 in one ( long) day, one of us had experience with applying vinyl wrap. The flat flight controls literally take only minutes apiece. The wings are 2 big sheets, definitely a 2 man job. The fuselage took the most time, however the beauty of the 3M vinyl is if you screw up laying it down, you just pull it up and reapply. A Good heat gun and some sharp razor blades as well as felt covered plastic squeegee will do the trick. The striping is a lot of fun using the knifeless tape, you can experiment with the design till you are happy. Slap on the colored vinyl, peel the wire and you have a very nice fine line stripe. Maybe some day I will peel the vinyl off and white base coat the fuselage, but I am very pleased with the vinyl up to this point. Regardless however, I will always be using vinyl for the striping.
 
Just ordered 7 sample pieces in 4x6 inch sheets for $2 each on Amazon to see the color differences and to try it out a little. You convinced me!
 
If you were worried about corrosion, you could do some sections in patches, maybe on the underside or on an access piece, that you could peel off and replace every year or two to watch for corrosion, rather than risking the entire plane for a decade.
 
Corrosion

Interesting - this I why I was wondering about surface prep before wrapping. Perhaps prime the surface before wrapping? Even then, a layer of film over it is going to stop it ?breathing?...? I really like the idea of it, especially having seen the range of colours and patterns you can get in vinyl. My only concern (well, alongside durability and wash-ability) is the corrosion issue. I suppose you can?t see what?s happening under the paint, either.
 
Since vinyl wrap is a relatively new process for aluminum aircraft, I will probably remove some vinyl from the belly within the next year or so to inspect the condition of the aluminum. It will be 3 years old this fall. Will keep you posted.
 
Since vinyl wrap is a relatively new process for aluminum aircraft, I will probably remove some vinyl from the belly within the next year or so to inspect the condition of the aluminum. It will be 3 years old this fall. Will keep you posted.

Inspecting the belly skin "may" be simply inspecting an area which is not exposed to rain and other contaminates as much as the upper fuselage, leading edges etc. I would suggest inspecting other RVs to see where corrosion starts, then inspect in those areas.

As mentioned earlier, for those worried about corrosion, prime the plane first. Best would be to use a Mil Spec epoxy primer. If you prime the panels prior to riveting, priming will be MUCH easier. That is because you can lay each panel down horizontally. For the beginner painter it's a lot harder to get a run or screw up when painting horizontal surfaces. Priming individual panels also eliminates the need for a paint booth. You can do the priming in your driveway on a calm [no wind] early morning. It also helps to wet the ground around where you will paint. The water will keep down any dust.

Charlie
 
Don't count on it

Corrosion

snipped Even then, a layer of film over it is going to stop it ?breathing?...?snipped My only concern (well, alongside durability and wash-ability) is the corrosion issue. I suppose you can?t see what?s happening under the paint, either.

I'm old enough to remember vinyl tops on cars back in the 1970s. You notice that is no longer popular. The manufacturers applied the vinyl tops over bare steel. The rust and corrosion under the vinyl caused many cars to go to the scrap yard. Nicks, seams and chips will allow moisture a way in.

Corrosion under paint will cause the paint to bubble. That is the tell tale sign you have a corrosion problem with paint.

Charlie
 
Alodine

I alodined the exterior and plan to start vinyl as soon as 3M releases my color in 2080.
 
vinyl and corrosion prevention

Can an air frame that is coated in vinyl be treated later internally with products such as Corrosion X or ACF-50 without harm to the vinyl? Has anyone had experience applying either of these products to a vinyl covered aircraft?
 
Can an air frame that is coated in vinyl be treated later internally with products such as Corrosion X or ACF-50 without harm to the vinyl? Has anyone had experience applying either of these products to a vinyl covered aircraft?

I think not. I used 3M 2080 on my Panther. I'd previously treated the steel tubing with Corrosion-X, which, of course, leaked out. It affected the vinyl adhesive so it wouldn't adhere. Fortunately, I was able to clean up the area so I could apply the vinyl.
 
I'm old enough to remember vinyl tops on cars back in the 1970s. You notice that is no longer popular.
My understanding is the 3M products that exist today are worlds away from vinyl that existed in the 70's. Not saying corrosion protection should not still be a concern but referencing what happened due to the state of the technology 50 years ago is hardly useful in this discussion.
 
real men...

.....don't paint too much. I wanted to leave as much CAD-cut rivet lines as I could, for once painted the effect is much less. So, I put some (!) elbow grease into it, and painted only the epoxy parts - and some design blocks. What do you think?

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To those who have wrapped, what did you do on the edges? I'm talking about the recessed areas like the ends of the flaps and ailerons and the trailing edge of the wing. Did you slice the vinyl right at the edge or did you wrap it around the edge into the recess?
 
To those who have wrapped, what did you do on the edges? I'm talking about the recessed areas like the ends of the flaps and ailerons and the trailing edge of the wing. Did you slice the vinyl right at the edge or did you wrap it around the edge into the recess?

Wherever I could I tried to keep edges out of the airflow so tended to wrap around the edge. 3M also makes a Primer that I used on any edge facing into the air stream.

Having said that, the adhesive is amazingly strong. I had to remove a fuel tank from the wing after it had been wrapped (don't ask :( ). I just sliced the vinyl along the tank edges and removed it. It was stuck VERY well. After I applied the vinyl I post-heated it to 190 deg. After reinstalling the tank I just applied new vinyl over it - easy.

btw, I used the 3M 2080 product.
 
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