Team AeroDynamix. An open Q&A Session. How do they do it?

Kahuna asked that I create a separate thread away from a recent thread about advanced, or low level, aerobatic manuevers. However, I believe it may relate to any high level activity you intend to participate in with your RV. Feel free to retitle.

I asked Mike to outline the committment it took for Team Aerodynamix to develop the skill set they have to safely demonstrate high level manuevers in formation in their crowd thrilling performances and the training regime they keep.
I was contemplating expanding my own formation activities to include some basic formation aerobatics. I quickly learned from Kahuna, there is no such thing as a basic formation aerobatic manuever. The level of comittment it would take to even begin exploring this envelope was well beyond what I was willing to invest.

You are all in, or your not.

So, Kahuna, it's your stage.....

Its difficult to answer a very complicated question like this. I could write a book. Maybe some day. Meantime, I think its useful to know how we got started in all this. I wrote an article a while back. I think its useful for this discussion.

I do get this a lot. 'How do we do it?' Its a complicated question because the 'it' covers a lot of ground. You know thinking about this as I type, this might be a fun thing to review over a Google on-air hangout. Where we could see and hear each other. You could 'raise your hand' so to speak, and I could answer and followup. I could do a number of these on various topics on the team. From the flying, to pilot selection, to training, to running the business, to our humble beginnings. Its a 'hobby gone wild' as I like to tell people. But it took a long time to develop. A long time. And the development never quits.

So if you think a Google hangout would be fun, I would love to do that. If you have a computer, a microphone attached, and some broadband, well we could cover a lot of ground on this and have fun in the process. Plus you could hear from some of the other Team AeroDynamix pilots. Some experienced, some FNG's that would have unique insight that only they can offer.

SO what do you think?

Ok Lets ditch google + for lack of interest and discuss what we do.
Formation it self is a very measured, disciplined activity. We take it very seriously for obvious reasons. Lets take these one at a time.
I believe a critical success factor is measured. In all our training, we first talk about it, what ever 'it' is.
To make this concrete, Ill use a real world recent example. Me, I do the choreography. I come up with some thing to do that I think will add to the program. We have a new maneuver for this season, a parallel diamond loop. 8 planes, 4 in each flight, 2 flights together doing parallel Diamond loops, each inboard wingman about 2 ships apart. I start by discussing it with the flight leads. We noodle on it. We get past the 'holy **** are you serious?' discussion, we talk about safety, our outs, potential issues. Then we walk it. If we bump into each other when walking, we have a problem.
With this item, its very close to something we have a lot of experience with, the parallel element loops. 4 planes, 2 in each flight, separated by a couple of ships, doing parallel element loops. I bring this up because we build on what we know and take baby steps towards something new. We have been doing the parallel element loops for a couple of years. That is the building block of experience to add a couple more planes to essentially the same maneuver as before. This is the 'measured' part.
After talking about it, we start with a 4 ship diamond loop, and one pilot, the flight lead of the second 4 ship, and we let him fly solo first, parallel with the other 4 ship. In theory, it should all work out. Since he has done this as lead of the parallel element loops over the years, no big deal.
Then we start adding ships and work our way up to 8 until we can safely repeat this activity reliably. And we learn stuff along the way. One thing, as parallel element loops, the second flight of 2 had an easier time adjusting to match the other 2 ship he was flying parallel to during the loop. He could adjust his radius to get to where he wanted to be. No power changes allowed. However, now that he has 3 wingman on board, this adjustment is not as easy, if you want the wingman to hang on and look really good. SO we have to fly the parallel Diamond loops under closer tolerances of speed and position and G as 8 ships, than we ever had to do as 2 2 ships. I hope this all makes sense. But a good example of how we approach the mission. Think, talk, walk, do, redo, redo, think, do better. Not unlike anything else you like to perfect.
This example is how we approach all our maneuvers. But unlike many other things in life, we are VERY conscious of the fact that the environment we fly in is NOT forgiving of mistakes. Low level, surface, formation aerobatics is nothing to take likely. Its no place for hot dogs. No place for anyone who is not 100% focused on what they are doing. So we take it very slow, very measured, and with lots of input from some very experienced pilots that have many screw ups under their belt.
It takes a lot of gas. Time, patience, attitude, dicipline, and some good ole fashion fun genes to put it all together. We do it as a team. Everyone, men and women, help make it successful.
I hope this was useful. What else you got for questions?

Sorry Mike, didn't mean to make work for you! It is an interesting read though.

However, when we spoke on the phone, what convinced me that I did not have the committment to take my formation flying into the aerobatic realm was what you did BEFORE you ever started.

You trained exhaustively in aerobatics, solo, to the point you could nail your lines, time and time again, with observers on the ground to verify before you ever took it low level. Then you did it again.

Your team trains what, three, four days a week? That is a lot of practice, hard core training, not just fluffing around. I know I am over simplifying.

I knew after we talked that I did not have the comittment to dedicate the time and resources to get to the most basic entry point of formation aerobatics. Yes, I have my Wingman's Card, I earned it. I know how hard it was too get. Yes, I do aerobatics, up at altitude, nobody checking my lines but me, and that isn't going to cut it. To even get to the starting point, even with my relative experience, it would take a huge comittment.

So, as people contemplate taking on more advanced manuevers, aerobatics, formation, mountain flying, stol, whatever, and they want to extend their flying into a more extreme realm, you better be comitted to the point of obsession with your training and practice. That takes a lot of discipline.

Based on the "can I do a climbing roll" thread, and "yes you can", if you contemplate what it takes to do it safely, at low altitude, few would be up to the comittment in training and preparation. Far more will be sucked into doing it because the airplane can, like the Pitt's guy in that video.

I would be interested in hearing about other folks training regime that do high level stuff. Heck, even basic training programs as one could argue putting yourself in the air in an airplane is extreme.

Kahuna,
Thanks for the write-up. I would love you hear you talk about your experiences learning to do what you do. I have to admit that formation flight has little interest to me, right now, but I am intrigued about how you went about executing it. I'd love to learn aerobatics one day and wonder if it is out of reach. Reading your article on how you got involved gives me hope that I can learn and enjoy aero as well. Let us know if you decide to do a hang out, I wouldn't mind hangar flying for awhile.

In terms of how we got started in aerobatics. Ill be perfectly honest. We are all self taught in what we are doing. I had no aerobatic training other than my R/C days, which honestly did help. There is no place to go to get formation aerobatic training for air show performers. Se we on this team are all self taught.
The building block is the basic solo aerobatic maneuvers that we move from flip flopping around t altitude to honeing in on being precise over a runway and at surface. This is not rocket science. Simply time, gas, commitment, and some friends on the ground to bark at you when you need adjustment.

As others have pointed out before, you know nothing about your aerobatic flying until you are over a runway. You suck unless you know if your being precise or not. Ground references and barking over a handheld from a ground observer is the only way to go. What I found personally was the transition from flipping around to being precise had mostly to do with rudders. I was mostly a single dimension aerobatic pilot early on. I did everything one at a time. Meaning a roll for me was pull, roll, push a little, recover. As you get box time your start connecting dots that its a lot of fluid motion of all controls moving together. That was a big jump for me as a pilot.

Then the addition of formation took it to another level all together.
Here is another tid bit for you. I hate solo aerobatics. I do it only to stay proficient and pass check rides. I have no interest in it what so ever. None! I could get handed the fanciest acro plane there is tomorrow, say a new MX3. Someone could give me one and say here its, yours forever. Ill tell them to keep it. I have no use for it. What I do, I do because of the people I do it with.

Our team is often commenting at air shows as we see some of the greats fly fly alone and we say to ourselves. 'Man, I dont get it. That would bore me to death'. Flying solo aerobatics week after week, show after show. Where is the fun in that? For us the fun is who we do it with and what we accomplish as a team.

We know there is no school for what we do. But the formation clinics are a great place to start.

Our training happens in small groups and large ones every week. We practice in small groups the individual items and in large groups to pull it all together. This past week I flew several times with Leggs. He is desperately trying to nail a parallel 1/2 cuban in formation. Its really really hard. Takes lots of gas. But does not take or require the whole team. And we dont like to waist the teams time with this type of little stuff. So we practice a lot in little groups all week, and formally as a group this time of year every other weekend. Once we get into the air show grove, we essentially practice as a group every week.

Each pilot has his own level of skill. Some need much more practice than others. We all help each other. 'No wingman left behind ' as we say. Thats part of the culture and teamwork. Its not just about me and what I have to do, its about what I have to do to help someone else do what they need to do. We cant do it for them, but we can sure brow beat and push and help to get it done.

Our commitment to each other happens both in the air and on the ground. I assure you we spend much more time together on the ground as a team working out this or that than we ever do in the air. Much more. But we live for the time in the air together.

Sweet.

Very interesting topic, and I, for one, really appreciate your taking time to do this, Mike.

Thanks,

I agree... Excellent posts. I'd love to get into formation aerobatics, but I suspect I too am limited in the amount of time I could dedicate to it. I already don't fly as much formation as I'd like to... Enough to stay current, but not enough to take it to the next level.

Back to basics...

Jon,

You have started an interesting thread. The term ?basic formation aerobatics? implies that there is a fundamental starting point to do formation aerobatics. I contend that there are at least three starting points:

1. Basic piloting skills.
2. Basic formation skills.
3. Basic aerobatic skills.

Nobody but a fool gets up in the morning and decides to try some formation aerobatics for the first time without breaking the task down into basic skills. When we invite pilots to participate in a formation clinic we insist that they first be comfortable with their airplane. While flying in close proximity to other airplanes one needs to devote a great deal of attention to the task at hand and not be distracted by concerns about their ability to fly their own airplane in all phases of flight. I personally feel I have full command of an aircraft when I can ?put it on? rather than just ?get in?.

Formation skills can be self-taught. I don?t recommend it. By it?s very nature, formation flying is a group activity. As in any group activity there must be a common understanding of certain principles regarding communication, division of duties, and leadership. These principles should be understood by all participants before taking action as a group. That?s why we have formation clinics. I occasionally fly formation with pilots I have never flown with before. Knowing that they have attended a formation clinic removes much of the concern I may have about safely conducting the flight. I hate surprises! One never truly masters formation skills. I?ve been flying formation for over 40 years and I am still learning. I suppose I have mastered the basics and feel pretty comfortable on the wing or in the lead, so adding aerobatics to the formation seems like a natural progression.

Being comfortably proficient in aerobatics is a must. I have seen too many pilots who practice rolls and loops at altitude and pronounce themselves ?proficient? when they stop scaring themselves. At some point most everyone who practices aerobatics will find themselves along for the ride when the aircraft departs controlled flight. The prudent student of aerobatics will have previously taken a course in departure or spin training so they will know exactly what to do when faced with an aircraft out of control. Precision aerobatic training is not a solo endeavor. So when do you become safe and proficient at aerobatics? Some pilots never get there. I have coached several and it gives me a thrill to see the ?light? come on when the student finally ?gets it?. That?s the point where he stops flying by the numbers; he stops being mechanical; he stops being a passenger and takes command of the airplane. Now, to put a fine point on it and go beyond just being safe and proficient you need that coach on the ground with a radio. Without a coach you can easily become proficient at doing the wrong thing over and over again.

Armed with the skill as a pilot, a formation pilot, and an aerobatic pilot the next logical step is to put them all together. When we started introducing formation aerobatics into our show routine we found that we were stepping into uncharted territory. Some of us had done formation aerobatics in jets, but none of us had done it in the RV. I?m here to tell you that it?s not the same thing! Jet fighters have a tremendous wing loading which makes them easily slice through turbulence. Most have tremendous thrust and none of them have a spinning propeller that can shred aluminum like paper. The RV bounces around in all but the smoothest of air. I has a minimum of excess power and then there?s that prop! We fly many shows with the Blue Angels and have come to know Greg McWherter, the leader of the team for the past four years. Greg would love to build a RV-8 but just doesn?t have the time to do it. I talked with him at a reception at the Naval Aviation Museum at NAS Pensacola last November. The occasion was to honor Greg upon his retirement from the Blue Angels. I told him that he should get busy building that RV now that he would have more time on his hands. He said he would give it some thought but confessed that he had one concern: ?I?ll have to learn to fly all over again!?
We had similar concerns when we decided to take Team RV into the realm of formation aerobatics. We had the piloting skills, the formation skills and the aerobatic skills. But those of us with previous experience in jet formation aerobatics found that we didn?t have much to offer. Kahuna has touched upon the way we went about it. Baby steps.

I had a few years of experience leading the second element of Alpha flight and doing parallel element loops had become second nature. At the end of the 2012 season we were at a point where every member of the team would be carded for formation aerobatics in 2013. It was time to step it up. The next ?baby? step would be to take the parallel element loops (two 2-ship elements doing loops line abreast) and bring in four more airplanes to make parallel diamond loops (two 4-ship diamonds doing loops line abreast).



Kahuna was to lead Alpha flight and I was to lead Bravo flight. The hurdle to overcome is the geometry on the entry. We make a 90-degree turn onto the down line to enter the loop and I knew it would be impossible for me slow down to stay on the inside of that turn and then suddenly accelerate to stay line abreast with Alpha on the down line. I figured that I would have to position my 4-ship under Alpha during the turn so I wouldn?t have to slow down, then I could slide out to the line abreast position once Alpha rolled out of the turn. Kahuna and I first did this with just the two of us. Then we did it with Alpha in a 4-ship diamond with me the solo Bravo. Then I started adding wingmen to Bravo until we will now be doing the maneuver with all eight aircraft. Baby steps.

Still, we have a need for a coach on the ground. Our end goal is to entertain the spectators. We video every performance and most of our practice sessions and pour over the video during debriefings. To be sure, we beat each other up over the slightest transgressions but it?s all in an effort to achieve the best performance possible. We will never have a perfect performance, but half the fun is trying.

Great stuff guys, very interesting, thanks for sharing.

Things often do not go as planned. BE flexible

We can talk, and we can walk, but in the air its different. Case in point. Another maneuver we are working for 2013 is the 'corkscrew'. This is where a flight of 4 enters from show left, and separates one at a time near show center and executes a barrel roll left to right at show center, one plane at a time pitching out of formation. Creating a series of 4 separate barrel roll smoke trails in the air. Thats the cork screw part. While that is happening, another flight, entering from show right. flies threw the middle of the barrel smoke trails and planes. Seemed simple enough on paper.
Not so fast. We talked, we walked, we talked and walked some more. Seemed simple enough. Then we put a couple of planes in the air to try it. YIKES! Things did not go as planned. its a complicated geometry problem to solve and even more complicated to explain. But the darn thing just would not work to our safety margin. I was on the ground barking while Smokey and the rest of Bravo flight tried to do what I was asking. Forget it. Safety issues all over the place.
OK ditch that. Lets try it from an extended trail entry.
Bingo. A giant success. Once we get that worked out, I go up and fly through it. Then I add a couple more planes to fly through the middle with me. One step at a time. Paying close consideration to outs and safety.
This brings up another point. When we talk safety, we dont just pay lip service to it. We talk about it alot. We want '3 mistakes from dead,' as I like to say. Things happen. Pilots make mistakes. Planes fail. We must build a safety net into the program that allows for these mistakes. We build altitude and speed. We build separation and outs. We work very hard at making sure that at all times we are 3 mistakes from dead. Now of course we are always one mistake from dead when your this low doing this stuff. Its more like 3 normal, expected, pilot and plane error mistakes based on our experience. As we eat into our margins, we perk up, get nervous, talk about it. Fight sometimes even. Yes. we dont always get along! Shocking I know. We all have different risk thresholds. You cant imagine the dynamics of pilots who have the mindset to want to do this. They are all type A stubborn pains in the @#@! But we would not have it any other way

You guys need to right a book. You have the makings right here in this thread. Good stuff.

Starting from scratch

Interesting thread and I've been living it for 7 years.

This year we are doing the same show but different, if that makes sense.

I've been flying in Alpha since aerobatics were introduced. Kahuna and I started formation acro over Lake Lanier several years ago and went one baby step at a time. For the last 3 years I've been #2 in Alpha and even though I knew the routine cold, I approached every show as a new challenge. We walked and talked each and every one like I our lives depended on it..

This year, I'm flying second element lead in Bravo flight. We are adding more aerobatics and needed to spread the experienced acro guys into other flights and bring other wingmen into Alpha to advance their capabilities and add overall strength to the Team.

Now this "new to me" position has required me to reset again back to let's talk and talk and walk and listen and learn from the guys who flew it last year. All my experience in Alpha flight will be put to good use, but I'm once again learning and expanding my capabilities. It's never ending. It's training and practicing and learning and committment.

Like the others above have stated, there is no such thing as the perfect formation flight. We all learn something on every flight.

I guess this relates to the opening post by reiterating, that this takes commitment and practice. There is no substitute for training, attitude and discipline. It takes all three to succeed safely.

By all means, jump on in. Just do it feet first with your eyes open to the challenges and rewards that are ahead.

Please, ask questions and get training and you will have the time of your lives.

Curse the 13 hour cross-country required to make it to a practice session.

I had the pleasure of flying a tiny bit of formation acro with Widget and Smokey a couple of years ago. Just scratching the surface was all we had time for, but it was enough to whet my appetite for learning more.

Kahuna isn't joking when he says it's a matter of committment.

Anybody know anyone in the South East who could point me at a flying job that would allow me to relocate closer to Team AeroD headquarters?

I have 11K total time with 3 jet type ratings and a burning desire to get good at something difficult.

VERY interesting thread guys! Keep it coming...

Joe Blank said:

VERY interesting thread guys! Keep it coming...

Click to expand...

OK. Is there a particular area you would like us to expound upon? We could ramble on about most anything.

Kahuna said:

OK. Is there a particular area you would like us to expound upon? We could ramble on about most anything.

Click to expand...

I have 450 hours in my RV-7A with all of them dirty side down. My goal for this summer is to achieve Smokey's definition of nirvana:

"I have coached several and it gives me a thrill to see the ?light? come on when the student finally ?gets it?. That?s the point where he stops flying by the numbers; he stops being mechanical; he stops being a passenger and takes command of the airplane."

Thats a great goal Steve. And its all doable. Any age, any experience level.
Step 1. Commit.
Step 2. Is the plane ready? Has it been put through the ringer? All the phase 1 stuff done and logged? If not, get an experienced pilot to do that. Im mean really ring it out. Shake loose rust, find bolts and nuts flying around the cockpit, determine if the stick is REALLY attached to all the flight controls Ect. You will be surprised what you and he will find needs dealing with.
Step 3. Find a partner in crime. You will need local support from an experienced pilot. Does not have to be RV. Any Experienced acro pilot will do. But like any CFI type activity, you both have to be compatible with each other and the goals.
Step 4. Get dual in your plane. You can always get dual in some other plane. But there is nothing like being in your own with your own planes behavior, good and bad.
Step 5. Let your partner in crime get you comfortable to the point of comfortable solo in all maneuvers. Let his experience drive the pace and training. Make sure your still having fun!
Step 6. Get in a box and practice, practice, practice with a spotter. This is where you will become one with your plane and achieve the nirvana you seek. Dont have a box? Make one! Start now. Do the paperwork. Its not that hard and Im happy to help. Changes in the requirements for boxes in 2013 have made life MUCH simpler to get these set up. Should take no more than 2 months now that the environmental study requirements have been removed.
Step 7. Take steps every week to move forward in your training.

This is a pretty good short list of the steps necessary. Sure we could fill in paragraphs of this or that. But dont make it too complicated. Its not.

newtech said:

I have 450 hours in my RV-7A with all of them dirty side down. My goal for this summer is to achieve Smokey's definition of nirvana:

"I have coached several and it gives me a thrill to see the ?light? come on when the student finally ?gets it?. That?s the point where he stops flying by the numbers; he stops being mechanical; he stops being a passenger and takes command of the airplane."

Click to expand...

Steve,

Congratulations. You have a goal. Now I encourage you to get organized and map out the path to reach that goal. You will need a few others to help you do it safely and productively. For your safety I recommend that you take a course in upset or spin training.

A few years ago I took a short course of instruction from Bill Finagin.

Dent-Air, Inc.
Bill Finagin
6 Romar Drive,
Annapolis MD 21403
Tel: (410) 956-0047
Cell: (410) 353-2622
[email protected]

Bill is a very experienced aerobatic pilot and IAC judge. If you have an opportunity to take his course, do it! I had been flying aerobatics for years before I took Bill's course, but I thought I might learn something new so I took the plunge. During the ground school I mentioned to Bill that I kept hearing of a foolproof method to get out of any out-of-control situation: throttle idle, full aft stick, full left rudder. (Sounds like pro-spin controls, right?) The objective is to put the airplane into a normal spin then use normal spin recovery procedures. Bill got a big grin on his face when I described the technique and invited me to try it when we flew his Pitts S-2C later that day.
I had a banana for lunch and then Bill stuffed me into the front cockpit of his Pitts and we climbed to 7000 feet to give the aforementioned recovery procedure the ultimate test. Bill quickly put the Pitts into an inverted flat spin and said "you got it". I pulled the throttle to idle, pulled the stick into my gut and slammed in full left rudder. The nose dropped to near-vertical, the roll rate increased to something just short of warp speed and I started to taste that banana all over again. So much for that procedure! Turns out that by pulling the stick back, lowering the nose had the same effect that a spinning ice skater feels when he/she pulls the extended arms tightly into his/her body. I had put the Pitts into an accelerated inverted spin! I was humbled that day and I learned a few things that may some day save my life. I never stop learning.

I don't want to steal all of Bill's thunder. Fellow RV pilot and friend Dave Hirschman did a great AOPA Live video with Bill. Watch it to get a sense of Bill's expertise. If you can't manage a session with Bill, please find someone who offers similar training.

To do your training productively you need a coach; someone on the ground with a radio that can point out your mistakes so you don't get comfortable doing the wrong things over and over. An aerobatics instructor would be nice, but another pilot with some aerobatic experience can be a valuable coach as well. There likely is a IAC chapter in your area that can help in this regard. I was fortunate to find Eric Sandifer at our nearby IAC Chapter 19. Eric is a fine competition pilot who recently became a competition judge. His posts to the VAF Forum are always informative and spot on! Just a few sessions with Eric coaching from the ground was worth more than a hundred hours of un-coached solo aerobatics.

Steve, let us know how you are progressing towards your goal. Good luck.

Kahuna said:

OK. Is there a particular area you would like us to expound upon? We could ramble on about most anything.

Click to expand...

Would any of the team members care to comment on team airplane maintenance. Are there differences in what I as a "flopper" would look for. Are inspections more frequent? Things that break more often? Does everyone perform their own maintenance or do you have a team mechanic?

Thanks,

Joe

Caveman said:

Would any of the team members care to comment on team airplane maintenance. Are there differences in what I as a "flopper" would look for. Are inspections more frequent? Things that break more often? Does everyone perform their own maintenance or do you have a team mechanic?

Thanks,

Joe

Click to expand...

HI Joe,

That's a great and important question.

Every year besides our normal "Condition" inspection we have at least 2 other team members, preferably builders, look over our firewall forward installations. It's amazing what a couple other sets of experienced eyes will pick up that you don't. It's a no questions asked situation, if the other person finds a squak, or something that he/she says, what about this, we fix/secure/inspect it. Period. You would be surprised that we all find something on each others planes every year. Either something shifts, rubs or wears, or we have a better idea for fixing it. During every show and practice, I put between 1/4G to 5.0 G's on the plane. I replaced my Dynafocal mounts this year because I was getting just a bit of sag and the spinner was rubbing on the cowl. We've had to adjust/shorten alternator belts to keep the pulley from rubbing on the inside of cowls.

In short on the firewall forward you have to look at everything. It's really important to have an experienced extra set of eyes back you up on this, as well as the rest of the airframe.

On the airframe itself, I personally have had no issues. We pay close attention to the horizontal and vertical stab attach points. We routinely approach Vne speeds on the downlines so for me the elevator trim tab get close scrutiny as well as the ball ends on all the control push/pull tubes.

My airframe has over 1700 hours on it and it is holding up extemely well. Van designed one heck of a plane.

We don't have a team mechanic, but we are all always looking at each other's planes and asking questions. We have a vast pool of experience to reach out to on the Team and this site just broadens that exponentially.

Caveman said:

Would any of the team members care to comment on team airplane maintenance. Are there differences in what I as a "flopper" would look for. Are inspections more frequent? Things that break more often? Does everyone perform their own maintenance or do you have a team mechanic?

Thanks,

Joe

Click to expand...

Joe we maintain our own planes, to a very high standard. Inspections are frequent. We dont settle for half !@#!@!. We demand a lot from our planes and we demand the same from the pilots that maintain them. A broken plane reflects poorly on the pilot. We put a lot of pressure on our pilots to bring a top shelf plane, ready to rock and roll. No pilot wants to be the one who impacts a performance with a down plane. Its hard on the team. Requires us to make changes, which we practice and plan for. But its a change none the less. Show up with your plane in tip top shape period. Dont, and you suffer the wrath of the entire team. And that wrath is brutal!

Further we have mandatory inspections that are required on all planes, where 2 other team pilots must sign off on that plane firewall forward, that it has met our team standards which we document and require. We put a lot of eyes on it. Given that the other planes and piltos have a vested interest in each others plane being right, we use that desire to our mutual benefit by requiring these team inspections.

We find what you would expect from planes that fly alot. Baffles cracked, chaffing, oil leaks, etc. Most of our risk is in FWF. So we spend an inordinate amount of time there. The rest is tires and brakes which we go through a lot of due to our frequent flying, complex ground handling, and show ground activities. The simplicity of air frame and flight controls makes those areas of little concern on a routine basis.

I hope this answered your question.

Kahuna said:

OK. Is there a particular area you would like us to expound upon? We could ramble on about most anything.

Click to expand...

ronschreck said:

<snip> To do your training productively you need a coach; someone on the ground with a radio that can point out your mistakes so you don't get comfortable doing the wrong things over and over. An aerobatics instructor would be nice, but another pilot with some aerobatic experience can be a valuable coach as well. There likely is a IAC chapter in your area that can help in this regard. I was fortunate to find Eric Sandifer at our nearby IAC Chapter 19. Eric is a fine competition pilot who recently became a competition judge. His posts to the VAF Forum are always informative and spot on! Just a few sessions with Eric coaching from the ground was worth more than a hundred hours of un-coached solo aerobatics.

Click to expand...

First, thanks for sharing your time and experience with us, its very much appreciated! And thanks for setting the bar where you do...max respect here boyz!

I'd like to ask about the details of the ground coaching, and then a bit on "outs".

First, on the coaching: I'm fortunate in that I have an aerobatic box at the home drome, and a hangar neighbor who is an aerobatic instructor...a Decathlon guy who is an IAC judge, and more than willing to help. Comments to date have been mostly along the lines of "nice round loops Bob" or similar...or "not so", at times.

Is there a list of areas of aerobatic execution that you scrutinize, or that I can work with my friend to scrutinize? We talk basic lines and geometry...what "big picture" and what "nuts and bolts" items do you focus on from the ground? I read your rudder comment, and figure there are many details you look at. Perhaps you can start with solo aerobatics, and build it to formation aerobatics. In a sense, this is "help me, help him, evaluate (or train) me". Others may find this useful too...its not just for me, of course!

Then on building outs: It may be very specific to each maneuver, but can you categorize outs, or describe some of them? We train on outs in basic formation and basic (dirty-side down) formation airshows. As our routines get a bit more dynamic and complex, I/we (the Ravens) beat the safety drum a lot, and we take it seriously. I really like the "3 mistakes to dead" margin you descibed! I'd love to hear more about what you look at as you build routines and maneuvers, and how you build in the outs, to whatever degree you can describe it in a post. Might be a topic to be shared while buying you guys many beers sometime, but anything you can share, thanks!

Cheers,
Bob

rvmills said:

Then on building outs: It may be very specific to each maneuver, but can you categorize outs, or describe some of them? We train on outs in basic formation and basic (dirty-side down) formation airshows. As our routines get a bit more dynamic and complex, I/we (the Ravens) beat the safety drum a lot, and we take it seriously. I really like the "3 mistakes to dead" margin you descibed! I'd love to hear more about what you look at as you build routines and maneuvers, and how you build in the outs, to whatever degree you can describe it in a post. Might be a topic to be shared while buying you guys many beers sometime, but anything you can share, thanks!

Cheers,
Bob

Click to expand...

Ill take the outs since its one Im primarily responsible for it in the choreography. Plan the program for outs. Ways out. Contingencies for the most likely issues we face. These vary from say, engine outs, to the less obvious like typical pilot errors in a maneuver, to environmental factors like wind. They all play into the overall safety margins of the program. One extreme example. You will notice some pilots take off, go straight to knife edge, and hang on the prop at 20kts ground speed down the runway. Cool yes, but they are not 3 mistakes from dead. They are one little cough from dirt. We would never do this. Its not because we cant. Its because its not who we are and we would not expose ourselves to that risk. We would throw ourselves the BS red flag if we proposed something like that.
So with that very obvious example, lets try one thats not so obvious. We all the time must be concerned with the most obvious, engine outs. We have had them. At all times a pilot must have a place to go safely, and plenty of energy to make an uneventful landing with no harm and no foul. He must know where that is. He must know where the rest of the team is. SA is key. So , where say in a typical formation flight, up and out is always your out, that is not the case with planes all over the place. Not the case when your slow, upside down, and in the slot as an example, with a dozen planes beneath you. In that example your out is a simple 'bunt', as we call it, to get vertical separation from the flight for just a moment. From then on no amount of any power in the troubled plane will ever catch them so you are now safe to maneuver and do what you need to do. I look at all phases of the flight and make sure that everyone has not only a place to go, but an easy place to go, without working hard at it and taking too much energy to do it. In the heat of battle, conditions are never perfect. Give the wingman PLENTY of opportunity to easily make a very safe controlled landing. That might be in the water, but he will be fine.
So from there its a matter of working in typical pilot errors. Overshoots, timings, sloppy performance, poor wind correction, mental jam (overloaded), rogue planes, weather, night etc. Where given those issues, can we deal with it without any concern at all with a couple of them at once. This is all very subjective of course, but this is where experience comes in. An example. For our head on element loops. Meaning one pair from the right, one from the left. With less than ideal vis, on crowd winds, sloppy set up lines, we still build enough separation in the head on to deal with it. And we have eaten up this margin before. Meaning we have come over the top looking at each other nose to nose and said "****, he is off-line and coming right at me" but we also have lateral separation to handle it,and it did. Point being, we dont get too close for that reason. We build in margin separation both laterally and vertically to make it safe even with 2 breakdowns. I spend countless hours studying our program, every portion, looking for areas of risk, and managing to it as best we can. Sure, we step in it from time to time. When we do, we address it in diciplined professional ways.

We also train for failures. Example. Last week in training, I killed my engine (yes dead. we do this all the the time), pitched out (lead out is very dangerous. Please dont try this at home) and left the flight to Stripes my element lead at a time in the flight where there is a lot going on. He is new to the position we are training him for. But he needs to be prepared to take the flight and deal with it. He did, for a minute or so, but got maxed out and ultimately a knock it off call was made. He learned something. We all did. And he went straight home and stayed up all night mentally dealing with it. Its his job to be able to take over for me. He knows it. He will be more prepared next time. Wingman outs are generally no big deal. Lead outs are really bad and really dangerous for a number of reasons. But it is a risk we train for.

So net net. We plan for failures that we see and prioritize for. We build outs and safety nets into the program to make it as easy as possible to deal with typical failures of high risk. We can never train and plan for everything of course. But we train and practice and are ready for most things that can and do happen. We have had pilots depart the flight and land right in the middle of a show. No one but us knew, thats the way it should be.

Thanks Mike, good stuff!

Cheers,
Bob

Comments from a lesser experienced member ...

Being the Team member with the least aerobatic experience, I decided to chime in to give additional "newbie" perspective.

I will you a prior posting as the guide.

James Clark
"CB"

...............


Thats a great goal Steve. And its all doable. Any age, any experience level.
Step 1. Commit.

<<CB>> Once the Team decided to have every member this year have Statements of Aerobatic Competency (even though not REQUIRED for what will be done in "Charlie Flight"), it was time for me to decide whether or not I was "IN". After thinking it through, I informed myself that I wanted to do it and informed the Team that I was "IN!".

So the "commit" here is both to myself as well as to the Team. It takes a lot but this is serious business. You need to be prepared to GIVE a lot.

Step 2. Is the plane ready? Has it been put through the ringer? All the phase 1 stuff done and logged? If not, get an experienced pilot to do that. Im mean really ring it out. Shake loose rust, find bolts and nuts flying around the cockpit, determine if the stick is REALLY attached to all the flight controls Ect. You will be surprised what you and he will find needs dealing with.

<<CB>> Although aerobatic maneuvers were "good to go" in my plane, I wanted one of the Team members to be very "aware" of its handling. To be sure there were no surprises. So one of the guys took it up and declared that it was "good to go" for what we do. This was important for me as a "newbie" to not have worries about that as I do more and more training.

<<CB>> Not to mention, as mentioned we have at least two members review the condition of our planes each year before one is allowed to fly with the team. It is AMAZING what yet another set of eyes will find. Different people look closely at different things. If you are going to up close to another plane you want to know that is in good working order.

Step 3. Find a partner in crime. You will need local support from an experienced pilot. Does not have to be RV. Any Experienced acro pilot will do. But like any CFI type activity, you both have to be compatible with each other and the goals.

<<CB>> This is where we as a Team have a distinct advantage over most people. I know that **I** have an advantage! There are about a dozen guys around with WAY MORE EXPERIENCE than me who are WILLING TO HELP me through this. PRICELESS!

<<CB>> Several of the guys have flown with me and I have learned a lot from EACH ONE, even if it was only one flight. I have been spending the most time with Widget. He has spent many hours helping me past the boogey-men that are out there for me. What I mean by that is that I tend to be a belt/suspenders/duct tape/rope kinda guy. I want to know what any why. It tends to make me too mechanical until the light goes on. Then the confidence starts to kick in.

Step 4. Get dual in your plane. You can always get dual in some other plane. But there is nothing like being in your own with your own planes behavior, good and bad.

<<CB>> The other thing about the dual in YOUR plane is that when you go to practice solo, you can visualize the dual flights. You can hear the words of your "instructor". Your muscle memory develops for YOUR plane, which I believe will a little different from any other plane. AND, again for someone like me, it helps build confidence in the combination of you and your plane.


Step 5. Let your partner in crime get you comfortable to the point of comfortable solo in all maneuvers. Let his experience drive the pace and training. Make sure your still having fun!

<<CB>> To me this has been one of the most important points in my journey. We focus on one thing at a time and the notion of getting me not only comfortable, but to the point where when I don't do something right, I have a good idea as to WHY and HOW to make it better next time. Don't always do it better next time but I have an idea as to why. A recent round in the box with Smokey coaching on the radio led to a really "feel good" comment, even though I was doing quite lousy and kicking myself in the plane. He said over the radio .. " .. the good news is that you explained what you were doing wrong before I even got a chance to tell you ...". THAT was an important radio transmission for ME.


Step 6. Get in a box and practice, practice, practice with a spotter. This is where you will become one with your plane and achieve the nirvana you seek. Dont have a box? Make one! Start now. Do the paperwork. Its not that hard and Im happy to help. Changes in the requirements for boxes in 2013 have made life MUCH simpler to get these set up. Should take no more than 2 months now that the environmental study requirements have been removed.

<<CB>> Fortunately we have access to three boxes. One is fairly close to me (KSMS) and the person in charge (RB) is available just about any time I can get away from business stuff and the weather cooperates. This is invaluable once you get beyond the basics.


Step 7. Take steps every week to move forward in your training.

<<CB>> As one might expect, this is important. My plane was down and the weather was bad enough to keep me grounded for two weeks. WOW!! Felt like I was starting all over again. Took several times up to get back "in the groove" of prior times. Now, what I try to do is make sure I get up many times a week, even if it is ONLY to go a few miles south and do a roll before dark and return. Trying to keep my head, body and spirit "IN THE GAME".


This is a pretty good short list of the steps necessary. Sure we could fill in paragraphs of this or that. But dont make it too complicated. Its not.

<<CB>> As the guys have told me, a key is PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.

CB ...

Bringing up the rear.
And actually starting to enjoy it! (But don't tell Kahuna!!! )

rvmills said:

I'd like to ask about the details of the ground coaching, and then a bit on "outs".

First, on the coaching: I'm fortunate in that I have an aerobatic box at the home drome, and a hangar neighbor who is an aerobatic instructor...a Decathlon guy who is an IAC judge, and more than willing to help. Comments to date have been mostly along the lines of "nice round loops Bob" or similar...or "not so", at times.

Is there a list of areas of aerobatic execution that you scrutinize, or that I can work with my friend to scrutinize? We talk basic lines and geometry...what "big picture" and what "nuts and bolts" items do you focus on from the ground? I read your rudder comment, and figure there are many details you look at. Perhaps you can start with solo aerobatics, and build it to formation aerobatics. In a sense, this is "help me, help him, evaluate (or train) me". Others may find this useful too...its not just for me, of course!

Click to expand...

OK, Kahuna took the "outs" so I'll try to address "ground coaching".

I can tell right away when a pilot is being mechanical and flying figures by the numbers. Take a simple aileron roll for example. The pilot says to himself, "check speed and altitude, pull to 10 degrees nose high, unload, left aileron, pause, right aileron, done!" What the pilot does: Looks at the airspeed and altimeter, pulls to 10 degrees on the attitude indicator, pushes forward on the stick about that much, pushes left aileron, looks outside somewhere or closes his eyes , slams in full right aileron, pulls hard to recover from the dive. The end result is usually an arcing roll with varying roll rate that ends up 20 degrees off heading in a steep descent. Satisfied that he lived through the experience the pilot does another just like before, and another and another. A coach on the ground could tell him:
1. Your pull up was abrupt and too high or too low.
2. You didn't unload enough as the heading began to change as you passed 90 degrees of roll.
3. You were still loaded up when inverted because the nose came down quite rapidly.
4. You got spooked when the nose came down and you were looking at the dirt so you rolled the last half at a much greater rate than the first half.
5. The pull out was jerky and abrupt because you were scared!

OK, that's an extreme example, but you get the idea. Even a coach with little experience can be a big help by pointing out things that you may never realize from your seat in the air.

So once you begin to pay attention to what your coach has to say, things get a lot better: You still check altitude before starting the maneuver but now you have a "feel" for the airspeed and know that if it's a bit low you will need to pull up a bit more before starting the roll. Faster, not so much. You pick a point on the horizon and keep it in sight throughout the roll. Now unload until you feel about 1/4 "G" in the seat. Feed in aileron (right or left) to achieve a nice roll rate and use rudder as necessary to keep that point on the horizon right in front of you. Vary aileron deflection to keep the roll rate constant. Still watching the point, feed in opposite aileron to stop the roll as you play back pressure and rudder to pull gently out of the descent while keeping that point at 12-o'clock. (If you have inverted systems then the pull up can be minimal as you will be using negative "G" to maintain altitude during the roll.)

When the pilot is flying almost totally with reference to outside reference points it is obvious to the ground observer and this is the point where the pilot is taking command of the airplane.

Now let's extend this to formation aerobatics. One of our signature maneuvers is the 4-ship line abreast hammerhead turn. A solo hammerhead is pretty simple to describe: enter at any speed, pull up to 85-90 degree climb, wait for 50-40 KIAS, unload, full power, kick full left rudder, full right aileron, rudder and aileron to vertical down line, recover from the dive. And that's exactly what most wingmen do when they start doing it in formation. The result is differing turn rates, differing final altitudes and a ragged line on recovery. In formation aerobatics the lead still must use outside references to position the flight and he must turn, pull and roll at rates somewhat below the maximum attainable so the wingmen have some excess control to catch up if necessary. Same with power; the leader can never be a full power or full idle. The wingmen no longer use points on the horizon as references, but use their leader as the outside reference. It is very easy for a ground observer to tell when wingmen stop using their leader as their primary reference. It is actually possible to make a hammerhead turn with reference to the leader all the way through the turn so that you turn at the same rate and come out at the same altitude. It takes concentration and a reminder from the ground when you screw it up. There is no luck involved.

Right now we are struggling with parallel Half Cubans. Here it is absolutely essential that the wingmen fly totally with reference to their leader. A half-second delay when unloading and starting the half roll on the down line can put the wingman totally out of lead's sight! I'll let you know when we master that one!

''A coach on the ground could tell him:
1. Your pull up was abrupt and too high or too low.
2. You didn't unload enough as the heading began to change as you passed 90 degrees of roll.
3. You were still loaded up when inverted because the nose came down quite rapidly.
4. You got spooked when the nose came down and you were looking at the dirt so you rolled the last half at a much greater rate than the first half.
5. The pull out was jerky and abrupt because you were scared!
-----------------------------------------------

Geez Smokey, I didn't know you were on the ground when I did my ''perfect '' roll.....;-)

You Guys are a pleasure to look at...Great flying..


Bruno

Team maintenance

Hi everyone. There were some notes on this thread about plane maintenance, and who does it. I was fortunate to spend a day at Kahuna's Skunk Works, with Kahuna, Smokey, Widget, Leggs, Speedy, Dubes, and Stripes. My purpose there was to build hose assemblies for the Team, but I have to tell you guys that I was amazed by the attention to detail each team member had, not only to his plane, but to his fellow team members planes. Yes, experimentals. Yes, mostly pilot built. Yes, wear and tear.
But, what impressed me the most was the professionalism, and the seriousness of the critique of the planes. That particular Saturday, there were 7 sets of eyes going over each others planes. These guys depend on each other, and leave nothing on the table. If it needs repair, it gets repair. Fortunately, there we not any major issues. Many of them received upgraded hoses. Some were not needed. But ALL were inspected FWF, and in a couple of cases, brakes.
And, none were allowed to fly home until 2 OTHER members looked over the plane.
Alot of us can learn from the way Team AeroDynamics goes about its work. Safety, Commitment, and attention to detail. Even the little things like a clamp, or safety wire. It takes alot of effort to maintain their planes, they they do an outstanding job. So, if yo are fortunate enough to see Team AeroDynamics in person, take a look for yourselves. Talk to them. I spent a day with them, and some more coming soon. You can learn alot-----I did!
Thank you guys!
Tom

Thanks Jim and Ron...excellent stuff from all of you throughout this thread. We're eatin' up every word out here!

Best of luck on the parallel loops and half cubans development! Hope you have a fun, safe and phenomenal season!!

Cheers,
Bob

Another great training aide is video, we have hundreds of hours of images. These are useful for many purposes. Primarily for training. Each of our flights is recorded then replayed frame by frame. Various angles in the cockpit and on the ground are used to determine how we are progressing. I have installed a small roll bar mounted camera behind my head that I am utilizing for my own purposes. Later I will use a head mount for a pilots eye view. At my point in the training cycle I cannot be distracted by the weight of a camera pulling G's.

Additionally the training does not stop when your wheels touch the ground. You also learn thinking and "dirt" rehearsing your routine. Walk your flight then fly what you walked, lastly debrief your flight.

Thanks guys for the great read!

Fly Safe....

What else you got?

Kahuna said:

What else you got?

Click to expand...

How does the team afford it? Planes, gear, maintenance, fuel, oil, time, travel, etc. All that practice must add up!

Is everyone full time, retired or just independently wealthy?

In other words, how does the worlds largest airshow team do what they do and make the bottom line?

In the early years, typical of most start up performers, you fly for gas. Meaning the venues pic up your gas at the venue and at least you have that. Like most aviation endeavors, you have to start with money to make money.

In the early years, we did it for fun, and the program reflected that. There is only so much you can ask from pilots that are doing it for fun and on their own dime. But we did.

As we evolved, we actually started getting paid. WOW! We thought that was great! They are paying us to have fun. It was not even enough split between 12 guys to buy dinner that night. But it was something. Start small, think big.

About 3 years ago we decided it was time to go from hobby to professional commercial operation. This required many many changes in everything we do. From our brand, to our program, to our sponsors, to everything. We demanded much more from the pilots both in terms of their flying and their ground game. This takes time. Its like a startup. Lots of money goes in for a period of time before anyone will actually pay you for you new product. In time they did.

We now are funded completely on sponsors and fees from the shows. To the point where myself as an example, I quit my day job last summer to do this full time. I am not making what I was at big blue, but I adjusted my life so I dont have to. Several of us just do this full time, others have day jobs. It takes a very special day job to do this. We travel a lot. Small business owners, those that can dictate their schedules fit well. 9-5 bankers could not do this at all. We depart mid week for a show, return Sunday night best case.

There will never be a fortune in this. We know it and we dont care. We just want to live our dreams and make a decent living at it. We could NOT do it without our sponsors. Sponsors are the key to any motor sports entertainment team. We have some exciting sponsor announcements coming up so stay tuned for that.

Driving the sponsor activity is a long arduous task. This economy does not help. Marketing dollars are very hard to come by. But if your persistent, have a marketable product, run a good business, it can be done.

It also took a very long time, years, to convince the market that we were serious. To convince venues, other performers, sponsors etc, that these RV's could actually deliver a professional air show that people would enjoy, maybe even demand. The RV just simply was not accepted for a long time as a plane or set of planes that could do it. This was a pretty big hurdle. That is far behind us now. The demand is there.

I can not understate the importance of the business and entertainment side of what we do. The flying is what you see, but frankly thats the easy part. We compete daily with some very good and well known acts. None of them have to pay 12 guys. Our size is always a double edge sword. Always. We try and leverage our size to deliver the best entertainment and value to the venues, and our sponsors at every turn. The dynamics of the air show business are very unique. This is not a mature motor sport like NASCAR as an example. Its young and evolving. Immature in so many ways. But it is changing. We are part of the driving change as well.

The best part now is we are still evolving. We are still demanding more from each other, more from the team, and more from the market. The best is yet to come and we are really just getting started. Much of the fun is in watching it happen. Watching the pilots achieve what they never thought possible. We do it together. It is hard to believe sometimes that we actually get paid to do this. We have so much fun as a team. "Do what you love, you will never work a day in your life" as they say. I never knew how true that was until I turned the corner to do this full time.

Brantel said:

Is everyone full time, retired or just independently wealthy?

Click to expand...

If anyone on the Team is independently wealthy they sure don't show it! Kahuna did buy me lunch yesterday but it was my birthday. (Thanks, Mike!) You can read our bio's to get a sense of the makeup of the team. About half the team is retired, half retired from the Air Force. As Mike mentioned, the guys that still hold down full time jobs do some pretty amazing juggling to fit the air shows into their busy schedules. It was pretty hard to make ends meet in the early years. Not so long ago we were seeing checks for $65 or less for a 3-day air show! The market now sees the value we provide and the income now exceeds expenses. The personal aircraft travel deduction allowed for tax purposes is generous so the tax benefits are welcome.

Even with serious sponsor involvement, I don't see anyone becoming wealthy in this business. I count my wealth in terms of the fun I derive from the challenging flying and the friendships I enjoy with Team pilots and their families.

If a big sponsor (eg, Red Bull,Breitling) knocked on your door, and offered big $$'s but required all the aircraft to be repainted identically in return for their commitment, would the team consider it?

EdH said:

If a big sponsor (eg, Red Bull,Breitling) knocked on your door, and offered big $$'s but required all the aircraft to be repainted identically in return for their commitment, would the team consider it?

Click to expand...

We have had this discussion. The simple answer is "probably not".

Of course money talks and I would never say never, however we would certainly require a large amount in escrow to repaint the airplanes if the sponsor pulled out.

But there are good reasons for keeping individual paint schemes. The most important is for safety. People are amazed that we can put 11 or 12 airplanes into an aerobatic box, do multiple formation changes, separations and rejoins and somehow do it all without losing situational awareness. It's not easy and we spend a lot of time practicing in order to make it look easy. If all the airplanes were the same color the job would be extremely difficult and downright dangerous! Secondly, we are proud to represent the homebuilder community. Most of our pilots built their own airplanes and the differing paint schemes display our individuality and emphasize the customization that homebuilt airplanes afford. Our fans, especially women enjoy seeing such a diverse palate of colors and we are often asked "which one do you fly?"

Yes, love the different colors!

Being one of the aforementioned "women", I vote for keeping the planes all painted differently! It is more interesting with that diverse palate of colors!!

Seriously, I think it does make for a more fun and interesting show than ---all the same color---, and viewers can track one airplane through a maneuver, etc.

And happy birthday a day late, Schreck!

ronschreck said:

Kahuna did buy me lunch yesterday but it was my birthday. (Thanks, Mike!)

Click to expand...

Happy Bday.

EdH said:

If a big sponsor (eg, Red Bull,Breitling) knocked on your door, and offered big $$'s but required all the aircraft to be repainted identically in return for their commitment, would the team consider it?

Click to expand...

Besides, I have the best looking paint job there is.

ronschreck said:

Now let's extend this to formation aerobatics. One of our signature maneuvers is the 4-ship line abreast hammerhead turn. A solo hammerhead is pretty simple to describe: enter at any speed, pull up to 85-90 degree climb, wait for 50-40 KIAS, unload, full power, kick full left rudder, full right aileron, rudder and aileron to vertical down line, recover from the dive. And that's exactly what most wingmen do when they start doing it in formation. The result is differing turn rates, differing final altitudes and a ragged line on recovery. In formation aerobatics the lead still must use outside references to position the flight and he must turn, pull and roll at rates somewhat below the maximum attainable so the wingmen have some excess control to catch up if necessary. Same with power; the leader can never be a full power or full idle. The wingmen no longer use points on the horizon as references, but use their leader as the outside reference. It is very easy for a ground observer to tell when wingmen stop using their leader as their primary reference. It is actually possible to make a hammerhead turn with reference to the leader all the way through the turn so that you turn at the same rate and come out at the same altitude. It takes concentration and a reminder from the ground when you screw it up. There is no luck involved.

Right now we are struggling with parallel Half Cubans. Here it is absolutely essential that the wingmen fly totally with reference to their leader. A half-second delay when unloading and starting the half roll on the down line can put the wingman totally out of lead's sight! I'll let you know when we master that one!

Click to expand...

Some really great stuff here guys- The ground observation make perfect sense...And the opposing fly through barrel roll sounds like

I've enjoyed this thread and seeing the continued aerobatic development in the Team. You guys do an awesome job and have some great pilots...if Ron Schreck is any indicator. One of the neatest formation acro maneuvers I've seen was done by Matt Chapman and Rob Holland (2-ship), but is totally within the capabilities of the RV. It's a line abreast hammerhead where one ship does a 1/2 vertical roll on the way up so that when they both hammer left, the planes go in opposing directions and cross each other. When done on the Y-axis in front of the crowd, it's hard to see how much depth of spacing there is for safety between the two airplanes as they pivot toward each other, which makes for a neat effect. Not sure if they start the vertical line with the depth adjustment already in place, or make the adjustment on the way up. Looks neat with smoke. You guys do plenty of neat stuff...but it sounds like you're continually looking to step up the acro stuff. So that's just one idea...from someone who knows nothing about formation flying.

Kahuna said:

What else you got?

Click to expand...

Very interesting thread - thanks. My question has to do with the physiological part, specifically, the pressure to fly. Seems like get-there-itus big time. I know there are days when I might have planned a little flying, but just felt a little tired or perhaps getting the beginnings of a cold, so stayed home. Could I have flown those days? Yes, but perhaps only at 80 or 90% sharpness. How do you deal with the decision making in this regard when your teammates are relying on you? Do you practice changing up the lineups if someone can't make it, either due to physiological or maintenance issues?
Thanks!

Alex this is a great question. Each pilot is responsible for attending rehearsals
However, issues arise that hinder a teammates arrival. Mechanical or medical, things happen. When a program a member is absent we shift into high gear and begin discussing the changes, then walk the changes until we know it. Our routine allows some changes on the ground and also moments prior to a performance. Depending on whom is missing and why these changes may be minor to major. An example is if a Charlie 4 is out a minor issue is at hand. If Kahuna is out we would likely hit the pause button during the performance, contact the Airboss and either abbreviate the performance or outright land.

As far as a performers acuity is concerned first the pilot makes the call. If there has been some discussion among a few pilots we call out the pilot and within the group we point blank ask for his status. In our group your word is your bond. If you profess your status is a "go" your expected to be 100% if not stand yourself down. This is no time for bravado lives are at stake. We would rather you sit out than increase the risk profile of the team

There is no question there is pressure to fly. Like any of a hundred other paid flying jobs there are, we have a responsibility to be there. Its not like decisioning for a pleasure flight. This goes for practice and shows.
Professionals in aviation have pressure to fly. You have a job to do. It is what it is. Not where you are supposed to be and your not doing your job. Like any pilot job as an employee, you have responsibilities that go beyond the need for flying for fun.
We do mitigate the risks in a few ways.
First weather. We arrive the day before. Get there early. Plan ahead. If you have to arrive 2 days early to get there, then do that. Technology in weather planning and instruments have improved our decisioning. Do what you need to do to be where you need to be. If that means leaving a week early. Then do that. Need to stage somewhere enroute with a friend to improve your odds?, then do that.
Another thing we do is send a lead team ahead. This group gets on station early and makes a presence. There are many logistics issues to deal with. From briefings, box assessment, to rooms cars and ramp functions. That team gets on station earlier than the rest to get things in order so that if there are delays from other pilots, they can be dealt with. This takes some pressure off the others on arrivals.
Im hard pressed to think of anytime over the past 11 years of doing this where get there itis was in play. Get home itis probably more so than get there. We are tired and want to get home to our family. We check on each other, fly together, use some CRM(Crew Resource Management) practices. No one is alone.
We do have different program routines for reduces pilots. Part of the choreography is to be able to deal easily with a plane down or pilot missing. You see similar solutions with other teams like the Blues. Its rare that we have to use it. We have gone entire seasons without having to use it at all. We usually have a stand by plane with us if need be as well. You all have seen Tony Spicer on this list. He was our crew chief for a long time. His plane was show ready and insured to fly the show. We flew it a few times in practice so we knew the plane. Another example of mitigating the risk as much as practical.
High maint standards, high pilot standards, and some of the other items here go a long way toward mitigating the risk.
But we do not stick our heads in the sand about it and call it done. We know there is pressure. We know family and other issues get in the way of flight status. We know planes still break. Weather is still weather. We focus on it, and apply common sense risk mitigation practices to reduce the risk.