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Dogfighting: Yes/No/Other

Have you or do you dogfight with your RV?

  • No, it?s crazy stupid/dangerous

    Votes: 12 11.2%
  • No, not interested

    Votes: 21 19.6%
  • No, but I?d like to

    Votes: 26 24.3%
  • Yes, against similar (RV) aircraft

    Votes: 24 22.4%
  • Yes, against dissimilar (non-RV) aircraft

    Votes: 7 6.5%
  • Yes, against anything with wings!

    Votes: 17 15.9%

  • Total voters
    107
  • Poll closed .

ChiefPilot

Well Known Member
I've seen this topic brought up a couple of times but it's always been treated lightly and in seemingly "hushed" tones. So, I'm curious: Have you, or do you, engage in 1v1 ACM with your RV and another aircraft?
 
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Dog fight

Yes ,great fun . Similar discipline as formation , have some basic rules , floor altitude , only right hand turns when head on ,etc... Have done some in my Skybolt looking forward to fighting in the 8.
 
Yes, I have done ACM with my buddies, granted all parties had professional (US Navy) ACM training. We set floor altitudes, used a tac freq, and were conservative. It can be a lot of fun, but only if all parties are thoroughly briefed, and on the same page, with proper risk controls in place.
 
I did the Texas Air Aces thing for a birthday 20 years ago. T-34s with lasers, smoke, and video. They later lost 2 planes and folded.

Makes you wonder - how much less expensive would it be today to rig an infrared laser on each plane and tail detectors that could activate the smoke?
 
The RV4 is especially well suited for ACM. Lightweight, great visibility, maneuverable and strong it is a worthy opponent to most other RV's or similar type aircraft. My RV4 has flown against RV3's, RV4's 180hp/CS, Busby Mustang 200 HP/CS also a Pitts S2B and IO540 powered Skybolt. The Bipes are no match at all with all the visibility issues they have. We had a group in Prescott AZ, "The First Composite Pursuit Squadron", that practiced tight military flight formations but also exercised our planes to the max with ACM. Done correctly, this type of training and flying is on the same level of satisfaction as a hand flown CAT 1 raw data approach, aerobatics or formation flying. It's not for everyone however and should not be considered unless the subject has been studied.
 
Careful

Just fly safe and remember you are not flying a Pitts or extra. We lost a very nice plane and pilot up here when they were doing just that. Easy to get engaged in the fun and show off a bit. Not suggesting not to have fun, just fly within your abilities and that of your bird.
 
We had a group in Prescott AZ, "The First Composite Pursuit Squadron", that practiced tight military flight formations but also exercised our planes to the max with ACM. Done correctly, this type of training and flying is on the same level of satisfaction as a hand flown CAT 1 raw data approach, aerobatics or formation flying. It's not for everyone however and should not be considered unless the subject has been studied.

Right on. As with anything, I think education is the first step. Like aerobatics, simply going out and "trying it" seems to be a less-than-optimal way to approach the topic from both a safety as well as educational perspective. Mastery of the aircraft in all attitudes is a must, of course, but there is a lot more to it than that. Perhaps even moreso than aerobatics, a knowledgable IP here is a must.

Some books I've found very helpful in better understanding the terminology, geometry, strategy, and most importantly safety issues surrounding this topic are (in order) :

  • Every Man a Tiger by Frank O'Brien.
    This book is a great introduction to the subject for someone coming from a non-military aviation background. O'Brien is a former AF fighter pilot who presents the topic as it pertains to light aircraft.
  • Fighter Combat: Tactics and Maneuvering by Robert Shaw.
    I've heard this called "the bible" of ACM for it's depth and completeness in treating the topic. Definitely a textbook, it nonetheless has mounds of valuable information. My recommendation would be to read and study this after memorizing Every Man a Tiger.
  • BASIC FIGHTER MANEUVERING SECTION ENGAGED MANEUVERING, USN CNATRA
    This is a textbook from the USN which I'm sure Rhinodrvr and others are familiar with. The specific numbers in the book aren't of value here since they apply to a different aircraft, but the way it addresses tactics, safety, and procedures are especially instructive. I doubt this would be of much value on it's own without understanding the theories presented in the previous two books listed.

Anyone aware of something which could/should be added to this list?
 
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Just fly safe and remember you are not flying a Pitts or extra. We lost a very nice plane and pilot up here when they were doing just that. Easy to get engaged in the fun and show off a bit. Not suggesting not to have fun, just fly within your abilities and that of your bird.

I was thinking of this very incident when I started reading this thread.

It's important to remember when chasing another RV that it's very easy for the chase plane to blow through Vne while the lead plane is still under the red arc. Just be careful and have fun. One possible aid to not exceeding the designed flight envelope is setting conservative alarms on EFIS units.
 
Dogfighting sounds like a blast. So does a roll at 50' on takeoff to impress your friends.

I know there are people who can safely do both. But I ain't gonna.
 
Yes, I have done ACM with my buddies, granted all parties had professional (US Navy) ACM training. We set floor altitudes, used a tac freq, and were conservative. It can be a lot of fun, but only if all parties are thoroughly briefed, and on the same page, with proper risk controls in place.

I'll beat Mike S. to the punch, and say welcome to VAF, home to many happy fighter pilots! Now, send Doug some beer cash!
 
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