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RV-10 very short T.O and Landing on grass ?

fdeppieri

Member
Hi all,

I'm an italian guy with a dream to build an RV-10.
Since several months I'm trying to understand the specific limits of that Aircraft with a particular reference about the capability to operate in a short grass strip.
I read a lot about that, but still I do not have a clear idea of the subject.

I live at sea level (near Venice) and I granted the possibility to open a short grass strip for Flying (not so easy in Italy). 1000 feet. Thats all!

So the question is very simple: with a proper training do you think it is possible to use an RV-10 with only 1000 feet of RUNWAY ?
Note that there are not high obstacles out of the runway; open field on one side (other 1000 feet before an obstacle of 50') and a small river on the other side with many other fields.
I mean not a gross weight, but with the most common usage conditions (2 people, half fuel etc) and the typical meteo condition (20-30 C?).


I'd like understand if I can fly, whitout figuring out every day to estabilish a guinness record to minimize the runway..

An answer to that question is very important for me. It is a sort of "Go" or "Not go" for that project.

Thanks a lot
Francesco
 
Our elevation is 3500ft and with no wind and light I can get stopped in 600ft and never more than 700ft. No wind take off is about 600ft. At see level I am always loaded so I never seen how short I can stop light. I can see 1000ft at see level and loaded being ok. You will just have to pick your days. This is considering a clear approach to touch down as you have to drag it in under power to really get short. When you are heavy and want to stop short I think you need better brakes than stock.
 
While it is doable, I don't think you would be comfortable in the long run.
I have 1500' (645' msl) and don't have a problem but I wouldn't want any less for daily use.
 
Hi,

thanks for the reply.
Reading the posts, it seems possible? but not all the feedbacks are positive.

About the possibility to pav the strip I must investigate. For sure, there are many other authorizations I need to follow this way.
So at the moment grass is mandatory for the evaluation; I can not wait a couple of years to grant the pav autorizathions (I?m not in US) before to start building?

Thanks a lot
Francesco
 
I don't have an RV-10, but I do have a Cessna 180. For that plane, 1,000 feet is acceptable - if the pilot is doing everything right. These days I'm not flying as much as I used to and I've found that I need more than that; currently I need 1,500 feet or even more to be minimally safe.

So the lesson is that if you're at the top of your game you'll be able to do considerably better than if you're merely average in proficiency. Note that getting that good takes a lot of work and regular flying.

Dave
RV-3B, now skinning the fuselage
 
Also keep in mind that people will up their game when consistently challenged, and relax when their "normal" dictates otherwise. My main runway is 30 foot wide and subject to pretty extreme crosswinds. Some people refuse to land there on a calm day, but I rarely have difficulty anymore. A "normal" runway seems absolutely luxurious.

If the 1000 feet at sea level has the option of going around easily, then I don't see the harm. Chances are it will end up being plenty as you gain proficiency. I suspect that you will have to develop the mindset that every landing is a likely go around, and be prepared to execute that decision at the first sign of trouble, however.
 
Grass Runway use

Hello Francesco

I operate an RV10 in the UK. Unlike our good friends on the other side of the Atlantic I rarely operate from hard runways as most of the small GA airfields here are grass.

I would strongly recommend that you do not routinely operate an RV10 from a 1000' grass runway. I think there is a very strong likelyhood it will end up leading to a serious incident or accident. I do about 60 hours a year in our 10 and the shortest strip I have operated from is 1000' but to be safe everything has to be perfect.

The RV10 is incredibly capable and ground roll on take off is very impressive however stopping on a 1000' grass runway requires you touch down at EXACTLY the correct spot and EXACTLY the correct speed.

So from my perspective routine use of anything below 1500 feet leaves insufficient margin.

We all have different attitude to risk, my threshold is normally high, however with all of my experience of operating an RV10 from grass I felt obliged to give you another opinion.
 
Hi Francesco
I just have been at Venezia Lido with my -10 and I have to second what my pre writer said. I operate from a grass runway in Switzerland which is about 2200 ft at 2372 ft. o have trees in the final and use usually around 1300 ft. However I do brake only once the plane has slowed down. I think it can be done but it will not leave room for. PM me and I can send you my landing distance table which has. Den performed on a dry concrete runway.
Kind Regards
Michael
 
To clarify my post, the distance is the total touch down roll. Meaning you touch down 300ft long...:eek: I would only operate out of 1000ft if I was light and the day was right.
 
I’m reading all the different points of view about that and I see it is not an easy choice.

Probably some numbers about the measured distances vs landing speed at a different pressure altitude could be very interesting; anybody have some graphs about ?

Here I’m in the situation where this decision involves the possibility to fly or not.
I mean, the primary purpouse for flying is job. I have to reach frequently some places not so near where I live but very easy to get using some airfields. So I can not take in account a different solution using another airfield far from the place I’m based. The secondary usage of the aircraft is with family, even in this case, I can operate using another arifield not so near.
I know it is possible to use two different aircrafts…. but it becames too complex… etc.

Also, I was thinking for some small modifications to minimize the stall speed for landing (brakes, wheels, reverse pitch propeller etc); anybody has some experience about ?

Thanks,
Francesco
 
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There are some aircraft which you can build and which give 4-place capability and something closer to STOL performance which would make your 1000 foot field a slightly safer choice. Off the top of my head I can think of some of the Bearhawk models and, of course, the Glasair Sportsman.

Still, as has been mentioned previously, 1000 feet is fairly short for any aircraft and leaves you with very small margins of error. Before you make your decision, please do a very thorough risk analysis, starting with the risks associated with YOUR personality and skills.
 
Here you go, click on the image in case it doesn't show.
Regards
Michael

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Bearhawk

I would second the suggestion to look into the Bearhawk. This plane ranked second on my list of 4-seaters to build. The RV-10 won (in my case), but only by a small margin. The Bearhawk is cheaper to build than the 10 and can be equipped with an engine that gives it a decent cruise speed, while still having excellent STOL performance. It is larger inside than the RV-10. Many people even equip theirs with a 3rd jump seat in the back for kids (6 person capability). It has a nice useful load, decent cruise and range, plus the ability to sling the windows open in flight and enjoy the scenery (it's a high-wing). I would strongly recommend you build or buy a 4 place Bearhawk, as I think you could easily operate it off your grass strip, have a family aircraft with decent cruise speeds to get you where you want to go, and also great ability to load it up with business cargo, if you like. The Zenith 801 would be another choice, but might be too slow in cruise for you... Happy hunting.
 
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