What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Rusty pilot with dusty RV-6 seeks advice/assistance

pjc

Well Known Member
Hi all,
I am a longtime lurker who finds myself with more free time than I?ve had in years ? time to (finally!) once again become proficient, well equipped, and start chasing some long-deferred dreams.

First the pilot ? I earned my ticket 30 years ago, flew a hundred hours or so, then jobs, family, houses, moves, kids in college happened. Now ? newly retired, with the last kid a senior in college I have the time and money to reconnect with the wonderful world of aviation. I have recently earned a Glider rating and am having fun learning to fly again. I have virtually no tail-wheel time and will be essentially starting over with an instructor in power craft soon. I live in Tampa, FL.

Next, the plane ? a very nice, basic, RV-6 with an fixed pitch 0-320 and a full panel of lovely steam gauges inherited from my father. Its an original slow build constructed lovingly by my father and a partner ? both now ?gone west?. First flight ? and Phase I flown off in 2009 and 2010. My father?s medical condition prevented further enjoyment. The plane has been in (careful) storage since ? pulled out occasionally for a ground run to move the oil around. It was maintained in annual until 2016, but now needs a battery and Condition Inspection (and I hope not too much else other than a pilot!). The plane lives (for now) at an air park near Houston. Documentation is complete in all respects.

Finally, the plan?
1). Get the future pilot (me) competent with an instructor in/near Tampa ? ideally in a tailwheel equipped trainer.
2). Complete a condition inspection in Houston. Ideally with someone well experienced with RV?s. While I provided occasional help bucking rivets, my father built the plane (his second after a previous Long-EZ) with a building partner. I see the workmanship as good to excellent, but don?t feel either competent or well positioned to judge. My primary interest is to be sure the plane is safe and also possibly learn what improvements might be made (or more modern options may be beneficial).
3). Have a competent pilot ferry the plane from Houston to Tampa.
4). Complete transition training in an RV6 ? Ideally this one (!) if there is a willing and competent instructor in the area ? or in another RV with an instructor experienced in transition training.
5). Hours consumed VFR happily turning avgas into smiles, pursuit of the $100 hamburger, maybe share the RV grin with a few young eagles.

If you?ve bothered to read this far, you can help with:
a). Any advice, suggestions, or encouragement ? I appreciate fully that I have MUCH to learn.
b). Recommendations for an instructor near Tampa ? bonus points if he/she would be interested in ferrying the plane, double points if willing and able to provide transition training in it once here.
c). Recommendations for someone to do an (extensive) Condition Inspection in Houston and make recommendations ? beyond clear airworthiness needs if any ? on how the plane could be improved/made safer/more reliable. Major enhancements (eg Glass panel) not anticipated.
d). Recommendations for transition training in/near Tampa. Is it feasible to find an RV experienced CFI that would be willing to do instruction in my plane? Is this insurable? Is a LODA required?

Recommendations of third parties appreciated via the forum for all to see, interested principals are welcome to PM me directly if preferred.

Thanks in advance,
Peter
 
Last edited:
I like your methodical, organized approach to this.

The only thing I can add to what you're planning is to have fun, and when you and the airplane are able to fly together, do a bunch of airwork and take-offs and landing, and then a lot of trips.

It might be necessary (or maybe it won't be) to do some basic flight testing so that you're familiar with the best speeds to fly, the cruise performance and fuel burn, and stall characteristics in different attitudes. If so, that's a good opportunity to learn things about your plane.

Finally, if you're planning any acro, get some good acro instruction first.

But I think you've already figured all this out.

Dave
 
Welcome to VAF

Peter, welcome aboard.

May I suggest a very detailed inspection prior to flying------not just a Condition Inspection-------look for anything that could have happened in the 8 or so years since it last flew. Rotten rubber items come to mind, also critter invasion issues.

Fuel systems dont like to sit for long periods of time------gaskets dry out, carb jets get gummed up etc. Is the build old enough that the tanks may have been sloshed?

Good luck, congrats on the retirement.
 
I can answer the very last question: A LODA (faa-speak: Letter of Deviation Authority) is required if you use your airplane for compensation or hire. But the faa presumes that you don?t rent the airplane to yourself. So if you use your own airplane, you may pay the cfi and no LODA is required. But if the cfi furnishes the airplane, then a LODA is required.
Insurance is available. Expect it to be expensive until you have 100 hours in type, give or take.
 
Hey Peter. Congrats on your new chapter!

I would suggest getting some basic tail wheel time in a Citabria or Decathlon or even a Cub / Champ first. Becoming proficient at tail wheel will help before getting comfortable in the RV.

Usually 10 hours and 60 laps in the pattern is par for descent proficiency with crosswinds, good wheel landings, and three pointers.

If you're in TX, here is a neat business owned by a good dude:

http://www.masterthetailwheel.com/

It's sad to know that the majority of damaged plans and egos happen on the runway. It doesn't have to be that way.

There is also some great books on the subject. Here is one of my favorites:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Con...mbHbAhVHRK0KHYn8DukQ_AUICygC&biw=1200&bih=694

I think getting your flight review and some descent tail wheel experience will help tremendously before the transition training. Than you will be great with getting out there and practicing on your own.

I think AOPA has a good Rusty Pilot program that would also be worth checking out.

https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/lapsed-pilots/rusty-pilots

Congrats Again!!
 
Last edited:
As Redbud40 said, Jan Bussell in Okeechobee will get you up to speed in no time. Once he said I was good to go, my first flight was a non-event.
The biggest issue was the drive! Three hours vs. 35 minutes in the plane I couldn't fly...yet!
He has a 6A and a 6.
 
Is Alex Dedominicus (sp?) still doing transition training in the Dallas area? That might be a good alternative.

On the other hand, since the OP has an airplane, there are probably plenty of RV experienced CFI's in the Houston area who could bring him up to speed.
 
Peter,

Welcome back to the wonderful world of flying!!!

I got back into flying about 4 years ago after a multi-decade layoff myself, and I am very happy I did. However I restarted by renting a Grumman Tiger (most of my previous time was in the Grumman AA-X line) with instructor to get back to a level of competence that I felt comfortable flying solo. Then after a number of hours renting, I purchased a used Grumman Traveler AA-5, and finally started building an RV-10 upon my retirement a couple of years ago.

One thing I didn't see in your plans was getting your 3rd Class Medical renewed. Unless you have already done that as part of your glider rating (I'm not familiar with the glider requirements), you might want to make an appointment with an AME and get the medical out of the way. Unfortunately I required a Special Issuance medical due to ravages of time, and that took about 10 months to finally jump through all the FAA required hoops. I didn't start the flight training until I received my medical certificate.

One very well regarded inspector of RV's for pre-buy inspections, Condition Inspections, and Airworthiness (DAR) inspections is Vic Syracuse. He will do an in-depth inspection that should give you confidence in your RV-6 before taking it airborne again. Vic lives in Locust Grove, Georgia but does work in the Houston area. So you might consider him for those services if you want an expert. (See his website at http://www.baselegaviation.com

You might also consider making the ferry flight home with the ferry pilot. This would allow you to start getting to know the RV-6 and perhaps get a bit of stick time as well.

Don't know if any of this will be of help. But again, welcome back!
 
Transistion

Jan Bussell Okeechobee Fl
Look on left side of home page pull up transition training. He?s in there

I second Jan Bussell. I spend a couple days with him enrote to pick up my ?new? RV7 in AZ and flew it home to VA. Piloting your plane home for the first time is an unforgettable experience. I too first considered using a ferry pilot but folks here and at the airport recommended I not miss the once in a lifetime experience.

Robert
 
ferry and TR training

I highly recommend Jesse Saint up near Ocala (X35) Give him a call. You will be miles, hours and dollars ahead with the plane near home to do your training in at your convenience.

Jesse Saint (Saint Aviation, Inc. - VAF Advertiser)
352-427-0285
[email protected]
 
Thanks for the warm welcome and suggestions.

Follow up question: Any recommendations on where to start with insurance given a low-time pilot will be listed ? (Was insured previously by Britt/Paulk via Falcon/EAA with the CFII test pilot for Phase I listed, but that coverage has lapsed).

A few responses to your comments ...

David - I am actually very interested in doing some real flight testing/data analysis/data reduction to understand the performance of this particular RV - after transition training. While the original Phase I did the "recommended" stuff and resulted in a reasonable POH, there are lots more interesting things to explore. Acro training will be down the road ...

Mike - yes a *through* inspection is the goal. Good points re: rubber bits, and yes, the tanks were sloshed (w/ Pro-seal I believe).

Mike, Robert - I met Jan at Sun n Fun this year, and am planning a pilgrimage to Okeechobee for at least the ab initio transition training. The 4 hour drive is a little off-putting, but a lot can be done in a couple of days with a good weather window. Still would be great to have a local CFI willing to work with me on recurrent training...

I have also now had several recommendations for both Vic and Jesse for inspections. Anyone of that caliber closer to Houston ?

Dave - 3rd class medical not required for Gliders, but done anyway. No issues for now. :)

Robert - While the ferry flight (perhaps with an instructor) would be fun, I think I will be driving a mini-van with the tools, jigs, documentation, "extra parts", etc accumulated during construction back to Florida.

Peter
 
Training

Hi Peter-

Congrats on getting back on the horse, aviation-wise. It sounds like you’re approaching this in the right way, and I see a lot of good advice in the other replies here. I’d like to second that of flyinhood regarding training in a different aircraft for tailwheel proficiency. I’ll tell you my story to illustrate:

I bought my first airplane back in November. I had been looking for one for about a year at that point, and when the “right” plane came along, it was an RV-6. I am an airline pilot, and I live more than 100 miles from my base, SFO, and had gotten exhausted with that drive occasionally taking over four hours. So I wanted to try flying to work, as a couple other guys I know do. The RV seemed the perfect blend of speed and fuel efficiency. And yeah, the tailwheel is sexy.

I figured this would be no big deal for me. I retired from the Air Force about 4 years ago. I flew the U-2, which in addition to being a challenging airplane overall, happens to also be a taildragger. I assumed my years in the “Dragonlady” would make flying a small tailwheel airplane a snap. Wrong. Turns out very little of that translated. My plan had been to get my airplane home from where it was in Florida, do a few hours of training with a buddy who also has an RV-6 and is a CFI, and be off to the races.

Before picking my airplane up, I went with my buddy and spent about an hour in the pattern in his plane. It was not pretty. I think at that point both of us wondered if perhaps other training wasn’t a better idea. But, we chalked it up to “first time jitters.” I flew out to Florida in November to pick up the airplane. My buddy met me, and we headed back. I had done a couple of OK tailwheel landings with the previous owner, and so my confidence was a bit higher. At the end of the first day, just after dark, I opted to do the landing into Phoenix. I flared high, and the airplane dropped to the runway from somewhere around 5 feet. We gave it a quick look the next morning, and it looked fine with the fairings on. We finished the last two legs and got it home to California.

But after it had been back for a few days, a couple of people had recommended I take the fairings off and get a good look at the gear legs. I’m glad they did.

The bad news: I had to replace the gear legs, which had both bent slightly. They cost ~$275 each. My airplane was in the hangar until March.

The good news: The engine mount and all other components were fine. Had them inspected by the local A&P. That was lucky. I also got to learn how to replace landing gear legs in my airplane, along with many other things associated with that task. I also got a huge amount of help from my new friends in the aviation community at my airport.

That’s a lot more good news than bad, right? Still, I don’t recommend the experience. The landing gear on your airplane is not designed for the abuse that comes with training. I am pretty sure Mr Van assumed his airplanes were going to be flown by people who knew what they were doing. I highly recommend finding an instructor and airplane that are up to the task, rather than putting your airplane at risk. I know because I tried and failed.

Hope the advice helps. Sorry that I tend to tell long stories. Best of luck with everything!
 
Last edited:
Peter,
I live in Zephyrhills and have an RV-6 myself, and am also a member of the local soaring club. I will speak up for Jesse Saint and Saint Aviation up the road in Dunellon. I have known him for a few years now and he has been very helpful regarding maintenance and upgrades on my airplane, and he is a few minute flight from Tampa so you would have a RV knowledgable shop very close by. I am a CFI and have done RV transition training, I just don't know if I have the time to do full transition training, but if you need help getting yours back after it is flying again, we could probably figure something out and I could help you get up to speed in your airplane. Let me know if I can help out.

Matt Laseter
 
not just rusty pilot

One thing I'd be concerned about is camshaft condition on that -6A. Doing ground run-ups only for several years means the oil never got hot enough to get rid of the moisture in the crankcase and could have done more harm than good. I'd fly it for a few hours and change oil and get the oil analyzed and cut open the filter. Chances are everything is good, considering it's lived its life in TX, but better to inspect first.
 
Peter, my story was similar to yours; PPL in 1989 when I was 24, then job moves around the country, family and 3 kids in private colleges grounded my aviation dreams with the exception of an hour or two per year with friends. 3 years ago I started back up in a Citabria and last year I purchased an -8 when I concluded that I didn't want to wait to complete mine before flying more.

Regarding insurance, call Leah Ringeisen with Gallagher Aviation Insurance at 877-520-6247. They insure lots of RV's. I had pretty low time, but most of it was in TW's, so they only required one hour of transition training. I ended up with 2 hours in a -6 and 2 hours in an 8. It was worth it.

There are lots of resources around 52F that helped me out immensely with inspections, ferrying and transition training and they could probably help you too.

-Brian
 
Last edited:
I haven't talked to Gallagher but they seem to have a very good reputation on this website. I switched my Grumman insurance to the EAA sponsored insurance company Falcon Insurance last year after talking to several companies about their requirements for the RV-10 that I am building. They had the most reasonable requirements regarding total hours and specific training, and their rate for my Grumman was less than half of what Avemco was charging me for the same coverage.

After talking to Avemco about the RV-10, I knew I would need to change insurance companies. They wanted a minimum of 25 hrs in a complex aircraft (they suggested a Piper Arrow) and 250 hrs total PIC! When I questioned the reason for the complex aircraft, their reasoning was that while the RV-10 isn't retractable, it has a high rate of climb and is fast, so they believe it is similar to an RV! Crazy, right?

Glad you have take care of getting your 3rd class medical renewed. Now you can switch to the Basic Med program in the future so long as you don't intend to fly outside the USA.

Enjoy the journey to making your father's RV your primary aircraft,
 
I can also highly recommend Leah Ringeisen with Gallagher Aviation Insurance
at 877-520-6247 for the insurance. My 6A with just a little over 100 hours time
runs about $1000/year. I can also HIGHLY recommend Jesse Saint not only for
inspections and upgrades but also for ferrying the plane to Tampa. He ferried
my plane from Texas to South Carolina and was VERY reasonable.

Welcome back to the sky!!
 
Insurance

I?m currently using AOPA insurance and have been satisfied with the reasonable requirements/rates.
 
Rusty pilot

I can confirm the rusty pilot issues here - very real. After 8 hrs and maybe 20 pattern laps, still a long way to go getting back into it. Got to get really ready before moving over to the RV. My 8A in the barn will have to stay put for a bit longer.
 
Get some time in an airplane that requires you to use the rudder and proper tequnique. Cubs, Champs, etc... will get your feet and head in the game. If you show up for transition training into an RV and have good tailwheel and stick and rudder skills, the transition is much easier.
 
PIREP: The Journey so far ...

Thought I'd post a 6 month update ... and again thank those who provided advice.

Goals accomplished:
- Instruction and Flight review completed in Tampa in a 172. Very useful to get the surface corrosion off the pilot in a familiar (and predictable) airplane. Good instruction helped a lot with local airspace familiarization also.
- Tailwheel endorsement earned ... got some great instruction in a American Legend Cub
- Completed a very comprehensive Condition Inspection on the RV6 with help from ChrisMallory in Houston. Ended up replacing a balky Mag, and an immobile Vernatherm, and fixing a fuel tank leak (dryed out inspection panel gasket) but so far no issues have surfaced from the well rested O-320 with some 25 hours of recent exercise to date. The upcoming oil analysis should provide additional valuable data.
- Found the vacuum system lacking (deteriorated coupling disk in the Tempest pump-easily fixed), suction gauge flaky, and a permanently tumbled AI (not yet addressed).
- Insurance bound (with lots of good advice from this thread)
- Got 10 hrs of dual with Bruce Bohannon in Houston in the now airworthy airplane. Extremely valuable ! I now can get the plane on the runway safely, and appreciate how much more this vehicle has to teach me !
- Ferried the plane to Tampa (again with help from Chris!) in a delightful VFR XC. Foreflight was quite useful!
- Have flown another 15 hours or so "turning avgas into smiles" from the new base at KZPH. Getting in 1-3hrs/week, gradually expanding my personal limits-- long way to go.

Still to do:
- VFR Xponder check
- Better (permanent) installation for the Stratux
- Work to improve Comm Rx sound quality
- Fix or replace the AI (maybe with a D10A or G5?)
- Mount the wheelpants
- Finalize a rudder trim solution (either replace the temporary trim tab with a permanent one, or install adjustable spring based trim system)
- Redo/validate much of the Phase I testing and upgrade the POH
- $100 hamburgers, Young eagle flights
I'm beginning to understand that with experimental aviation the building/upgrading/improving never ends ... you just add flying to the experience -- there is always more to do !

Future goals:
- ADSB Out - GDL82? uAvionix ?
- Panel upgrade
- Install Landing/Taxi lights
- Aerobatic training
- Return to test phase to allow clearance of "No Aerobatics" in the current Op Lims
- Formation training ?
- Fly my own plane to Oshkosh (last years arrival challenges notwithstanding) -- I guess this has to be on every EAB owners list ...
- Learn how to post pictures on VAF :)

Meanwhile ... I've absorbed more help than I could have imagined from the good folks of VAF. I will be re-upping my contribution in 2019, I hope you will too so Doug can keep this thing going.

Peter

Here's what the plan looked like back in June. Didn't go exactly to plan, but I have no complaints! (Someone smarter than me said "Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans.")

Hi all,
I am a longtime lurker who finds myself with more free time than I?ve had in years ? time to (finally!) once again become proficient, well equipped, and start chasing some long-deferred dreams.

First the pilot ? I earned my ticket 30 years ago, flew a hundred hours or so, then jobs, family, houses, moves, kids in college happened. Now ? newly retired, with the last kid a senior in college I have the time and money to reconnect with the wonderful world of aviation. I have recently earned a Glider rating and am having fun learning to fly again. I have virtually no tail-wheel time and will be essentially starting over with an instructor in power craft soon. I live in Tampa, FL.

Next, the plane ? a very nice, basic, RV-6 with an fixed pitch 0-320 and a full panel of lovely steam gauges inherited from my father. Its an original slow build constructed lovingly by my father and a partner ? both now ?gone west?. First flight ? and Phase I flown off in 2009 and 2010. My father?s medical condition prevented further enjoyment. The plane has been in (careful) storage since ? pulled out occasionally for a ground run to move the oil around. It was maintained in annual until 2016, but now needs a battery and Condition Inspection (and I hope not too much else other than a pilot!). The plane lives (for now) at an air park near Houston. Documentation is complete in all respects.

Finally, the plan?
1). Get the future pilot (me) competent with an instructor in/near Tampa ? ideally in a tailwheel equipped trainer.
2). Complete a condition inspection in Houston. Ideally with someone well experienced with RV?s. While I provided occasional help bucking rivets, my father built the plane (his second after a previous Long-EZ) with a building partner. I see the workmanship as good to excellent, but don?t feel either competent or well positioned to judge. My primary interest is to be sure the plane is safe and also possibly learn what improvements might be made (or more modern options may be beneficial).
3). Have a competent pilot ferry the plane from Houston to Tampa.
4). Complete transition training in an RV6 ? Ideally this one (!) if there is a willing and competent instructor in the area ? or in another RV with an instructor experienced in transition training.
5). Hours consumed VFR happily turning avgas into smiles, pursuit of the $100 hamburger, maybe share the RV grin with a few young eagles.

If you?ve bothered to read this far, you can help with:
a). Any advice, suggestions, or encouragement ? I appreciate fully that I have MUCH to learn.
b). Recommendations for an instructor near Tampa ? bonus points if he/she would be interested in ferrying the plane, double points if willing and able to provide transition training in it once here.
c). Recommendations for someone to do an (extensive) Condition Inspection in Houston and make recommendations ? beyond clear airworthiness needs if any ? on how the plane could be improved/made safer/more reliable. Major enhancements (eg Glass panel) not anticipated.
d). Recommendations for transition training in/near Tampa. Is it feasible to find an RV experienced CFI that would be willing to do instruction in my plane? Is this insurable? Is a LODA required?

Recommendations of third parties appreciated via the forum for all to see, interested principals are welcome to PM me directly if preferred.

Thanks in advance,
Peter
 
great! thanks for the update

good hearing from you on this, we're often left wondering how things turned out. keep an eye on socialflight for excuses to fly, lots of great pancake breakfasts in central FL.
 
Thanks for the update. Sounds like your return to flying and transition to the RV-6 was well planned and executed.

One suggestion as you proceed with your still-to-do and future goals. In executing some of your still-to-do plans, keep in mind your future plans for ADSB out and your panel upgrade. Think about what you want your panel to be once upgraded, and make your equipment selections with that in mind.

For example, replace your non-functional AI with a G5 or D10, making the decision as to which instrument based on which would work best included in your future panel. Do you want this device to communicate with your future EFIS system? If so, you should probably decide now which brand (Garmin or Dynon/AFS) you want. And if improving the current comm sound involves a new radio, again select the new radio so that it will work with your future EFIS. And if you want to add an auto pilot in the future, consider that as well in the selection of your replacement for your AI. (The Garmin G5 can drive a Garmin auto pilot system.) You might also want to select your ADSB Out equipment so that it will fit well in your future panel avionics system.

Enjoy your return to flying and the RV-6 your Dad built!
 
Yeah, so many choices ...

Excellent points. I am beginning to wrestle with all this stuff right now :). I have been hoping to do the upgrades progressively rather than in one go, but as you point out, even what appears to be a relatively minor initial choice, eg ADSB out ES xpndr vs ADSB out add on, has lots of implications for potential later steps...

I?m working through sharpening the big picture: Mission, Priorities, Potential Architectures, and Budget and doing a lot of reading right now. Hopefully that will generate some answers (or at least good questions) re: vendors/technology. I will try to post some details in a new thread if/as the fog clears and I formulate more specific ideas.

For now it just feels good to have gotten one of the 10,000 back in the air!
Peter


Thanks for the update. Sounds like your return to flying and transition to the RV-6 was well planned and executed.

One suggestion as you proceed with your still-to-do and future goals. In executing some of your still-to-do plans, keep in mind your future plans for ADSB out and your panel upgrade. Think about what you want your panel to be once upgraded, and make your equipment selections with that in mind.

For example, replace your non-functional AI with a G5 or D10, making the decision as to which instrument based on which would work best included in your future panel. Do you want this device to communicate with your future EFIS system? If so, you should probably decide now which brand (Garmin or Dynon/AFS) you want. And if improving the current comm sound involves a new radio, again select the new radio so that it will work with your future EFIS. And if you want to add an auto pilot in the future, consider that as well in the selection of your replacement for your AI. (The Garmin G5 can drive a Garmin auto pilot system.) You might also want to select your ADSB Out equipment so that it will fit well in your future panel avionics system.

Enjoy your return to flying and the RV-6 your Dad built!
 
Back
Top