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need help deciding if I should do it.

ditch

Well Known Member
I desperately need help. I've been looking at the 7 for 1 year now and can't decide if I should dive into one. I have been through an A&P school but it wasn't that great and didn't learn as much as I wanted. I now want to build the 7 and I don't think I would have much troubles with the metal part of it but when I look at the pics of your panels with all the wires and stuff my brain hurts. Seriously, how hard are these things to build and how does a person get through all the tough stuff? Would it help to buy the small plans first and just go through them to see if its for me? Motors are not really my thing either and my brain hurts when I read some of the stuff posted about them to. HA. Actually it does. I would be fairly ok with the money part of it. I think I could have the money for the next step as I get to them. I just don't want to get the shell done and when it came to the instruments and engine, come to a grinding hault and not know what to do next. Do the plans tell you how to install engine components also? I could really use some advise right about now. Any help would be appreciated.
 
Commitment and passion are required

The skills that are required are many, but none are all that hard to learn. You just have to want to.

You have to want to build an airplane. I'll say that again...you have to want to BUILD an airplane. Not just own one. Not just fly one. Build it.

There is tons of help out there. Very few of us knew how to do this when we started. Virtually none of us have an A&P license, so you're ahead of the pack. There are training courses, books, web sites, experts, and this forum to get help and to acquire new skills.

The plans don't say much about installing the engine, or doing the wiring, or the panel, but there are other sources to learn that. The best source is a builder who's done it before, so if you want some concrete advice, start by finding a builder in your area.

Good luck,
Martin
 
You kept your A&P textbooks, no? I started my RV after A&P school, also. The books and VAF along with builders websites were great help along the way. Ask yourself how much you want it. It's not as tough as you think.
BTW, why "ditch"? Is it because you didn't attend class? :)
 
Ditch

Why not look at a flying aircraft?
You can probably buy one cheaper than you could build one. And you could be flying tomorrow instead of 3-5 years from now.

No, I don't have one for sale.

Bryan Carr
 
bsacks05 said:
You kept your A&P textbooks, no? I started my RV after A&P school, also. The books and VAF along with builders websites were great help along the way. Ask yourself how much you want it. It's not as tough as you think.
BTW, why "ditch"? Is it because you didn't attend class? :)
No, ditch is sort of the shorter version of ditchpickle, which was slang for the green arcticat snowmobile. People called them ditchpickles and since I had one, it kinda fit. Funny thing, usually when i register for a forum site, its already taken. I would rather build one than just buy one. Everything I do I do myself and it would be an incredible accomplishment to look back on when I'd be flying it. Plus you can't get the performance out of a cessna like these. A guy I know built one and after a ride, I really had to have one. I do plan on joining the local EAA chapter and talk to some real owners first. Every day at work I have myself totally convinced to do it and when I got home I seem to switch gears. Want to be totally sure before I commit though.
 
Ditch

Man do you bring back memories.....Early 2004 I began my search and went into the old should I .....but.....maybe I can...but.....it looks challenging......boy I would sure like to .....but .....do I have the patience.......will the family support me......$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and on an on.....until August 2004 got the preview plans and ordered the emp. Work began officially on Sept 4, 2004. Since then I finished a standard build emp/wings/fuse and have started the electrical/panel/engine stuff. Like you I had trepidation about the electrical/fwf/panel stuff. My research on this forum/matrionics/Aeroelectric Connection/and the fantastic builder web sites has made the job much easier. I can tell you that the panel work has been enjoyable even cutting the holes to spec. was not the monster I thought it would be. The more challenging chores were the fuel tanks (you can by pass this up with QB option) , the tip up canopy ( really wasn't as bad as I thought), my patiences.

I could write a book about my build,Oh Dan (Sharpie), plus many others have already done that. I would though in my first chapter dwell on the personel traits of you the build. It would include a few important questions. Like: are you a patient person, do you like to do detailed / tedious / repetitive / sometimes boring activities (knowing that the outcome is going to be great), will your family support you in this endeavor, well you know when to walk from the project and give the family quality time, welling to study, listen to advice, be a perfectionest (but know when good enough will do and be safe in the bargine)enjoy long term projects where the reward is a ways down the road, willing to patiently listen to friends/neighbors/family that either think your crazy, not doing it right (alot of will meaning want to be's will give you great, but usually bad advice), or they will say that you are just wasteing your time ("buy a C 172 and just go flying")....................................

So I guess it boils down to YOU......do you want the pride of knowing you accomplished someting that few will ever try let alone finish.....do you want to fly one fine aircraft near and far.......do you want to overcome those things you think may be too hard to do but find the foretitude to learn/do/and finally overcome your objections and insecurities.

Ditch, it hasn't been easy for me. I have bought my fair share of parts that I messed up, drilled out many a bad rivet ( as a matter a fact I have become an accomplished rivet extractor), felt on some occassions I should just throw in the towel and buy that slow/old/spam can, but.......I want my wife/children/grandchildren/friends/especially on anagonistic EAA rich guy to know that when I start someting it will be finished. I lost my father last September 9, 2007 (he was 93 in good health to the end (except for that prostate cancer that got him) and I felt it dearly to the core. He took me to airshows, kindled in me the love of building stuff, to start someting no matter how hard and to finish it but more importantly do it well! My plane will be N74BZ in honor
of him and his life long nick name "BUZZ" . When I make that first flight in the next few months I will think of him and the motivation he even now gives me from the grave. I will also think of Van's and their great product and help, all you wonderful RV'ers and want to be RV'ers, all of the wonderful companies that provide new and innovative products that really enhance our flying experience, and last but not least my family for their suppor/understanding/and willingness to let me talk on and on about MY BIG PANE PROJECT.

Ditch give it a close look, determine your motivations, and then let it rip or should i say rivet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Frank @ SGU RV7A 80% done 150% to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now
 
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I didn't go to A&P school, so you are a couple of steps ahead of me.

I did go to a couple of the training classes at Oshkosh, but other than that I just dived in after trying out the Training Kit Van's offers. It seems overwhelming at first, but if you do it a step at a time and have someone to get advice/second opinion from you should be alright. (Obviously, joining an EAA chapter helps!)

As for the panel wiring, I'm way overwhelmed with that right now whenever I think of it. So I might either pay someone to wire it or use something like the Approach Systems' hub that takes a lot of the guess work out.

That said, I *am* looking forward to wiring and building the electrical system.

:D
 
you can do it

Ditch,

I agree with Martin in his earlier post. You are ahead of the great majority of us in your building skills and your knowledge of aircraft systems, because you are an A&P.

Most of us are guys and gals with no prior building experience. Nothing I learned in law school prepared me to build an airplane. It is a great learning experience. Each phase teaches you a different skill. None of those skills are outside the learning capability of most people.

This community is large and diverse. There is an expert here on just about any topic you can imagine that relates to building an airplane and all of them are willing to share that knowledge. There is no problem you can encounter in the build that has not been addressed by lots of other people here. The archives and search feature contain a wealth of knowledge. If you are stumped even after searching the archives post a question about your problem. It is not uncommon to recieve a "this is how I did it" response within 20 minutes. You can learn how to glue your canopy....and whether to glue or not...from Mickey in Switzerland. You can learn how to set up a warning light that will tell you if your beer is cool from our mate down under.

The RV community is great. I hate to think about building an RV without the resource of this website. You will make a lot of friends here who share your passion for building an RV.

Short answer....build it!
 
Well this is helping with the decision. One question I do have though, I noticed in all the pics most have their wings on while they are doing the wiring and engine stuff. Can you work it out so that the wings are the last part to be put on? Obviously some wiring and other stuff can't be completed until they are on but it would really help to get as much done as you absolutely can before you have to take it to a hanger and work on it there. Also, do most builders paint the plane as a whole when they are done or can you paint the individual parts as you complete them?
 
build sequence

Ditch,

My wings are in my hanger at the airport. My fusealge is in the garage at my home. I have done my wiring leaving wires long enough to reach the wingtips for various devices mounted in the wings. I will do as much as I can here at home before taking the completed fuselage to the hanger to be joined with the wings.

You can paint the plane before you fly, or after. There is information on that topic in the archives which you can access using the search feature.
 
Ditch, If you are not going full blown IFR and using 1 comm, transponder and a GPS the wiring kit from Van's is very good. I havn't done a lot of wiring in my life but managed to wire my airplane unasisted. I have the Dynon 100 and 120 efis/ems autopilot, 396 in a Gizmo mout comm, trans, intercom etc and you just take it one wire at a time. Vans basic scematic is very good and the basic wiring harness worked out great. I wired the whole airplane before I installed the front deck and the wings. I have plug ins on each side that plug into the wings. It is a lot like doing the rest of the airplane. Fabricating one part after another until there are no parts left then go fly. Don
 
Ditch, I've learned to look at it this way....

If you believe that you can handle the financial aspect of the whole airplane, then you can certainly afford to gamble a little on a tail kit. $2K for the tail kit, and another $1.5K for tools. Build the tail, see if you enjoy the process.

If you really hate it, you can sell both the tail kit and tools for maybe half what you paid, you've learned something about yourself and what you do and don't like, and you move on to a faster snowmobile....

If you get hooked, you're on the road, and all your questions can be answered by people here and local builders....and they are EVERYWHERE!!

Take the gamble, give it a try - because you will never KNOW until you try it....

Paul
 
Personal minimums

Ditch,

Know thyself. I think a measure of innate stubborness is an airplane building virtue because building an airplane is a huge economic and emotional commitment. It demands uncommon dedication and sacrifice. Often, even a time saving quickbuild kit can take a given builder many years to complete. Those same years will inevitably include a healthy portion of life's normal passages that can include any random combination of birth, death, sickness, graduation, jobs, marriage, divorce, accidents, financial setbacks and who knows what else. If life doesn't get in the way, you will also be faced with countless technical challenges.....challenges that can easily require as much creativity to overcome as any building skills you may possess. You have to know how, where, and when to seek technical help. In the end, it is the unmet challenge that discourages the weary builder. All too many airplane projects end up as an aborted money pit languishing in a corner or sold at a great financial, even emotional loss.

Everything you need to know to build an airplane is "out there." Most of us never hung an engine or wired an instrument panel until we bashed our head against the wall trying to do it, often failing at first. To finally get it right, it often takes a healthy measure of stubbornness or tenacity to prevail.

Many well intentioned people will quickly repeat a variation of the oft told bromide that if you put your mind to it, you can do anything including building an airplane...particularily if it is a Van's proven and highly popular design. Well, yea.....I guess so.

My advice remains the same.....Know thyself.
 
My question is this, what didn't you like about A&P school? I went to A&P school, and worked as one for 4 years, i would have never considered building without that background. Some people have different comfort levels that I do, but it's a lot of information to learn when it comes to systems and stuff. Like you said, the structure is no big deal, easy to do, and there is tons of guidance on it. Once you start into systems however... the guidance goes away to a great degree, and you are left to fend for yourself.

If engines weren't your thing in A&P school, thats fine, since you are in no way obligated to overhaul or build you own, as long as you can hang it on the mount and plumb the oil/fuel lines you will be fine.

If the panel is where you get hung up, you can have a panel built and pre-wired for you.

You NEED to be commited and to understand to some degree how the fuel, electrical and other systems work, but if engineers can build these airplanes, anyone can... (sorry, I just had to say it...)
 
For background you might be interested to know that when I started this I had never held a rivet gun, never cut sheet metal, never done any fiberglass work, not much experience with engines (I can change oil) and I'm scared of electricity.Today I have nearly completed wings and fuselage in my shop. Among homebuilders I am not unique.

Early in all this I ran across a quote that seems to apply particulary to the affliction of building airplanes. This has been taped to my tool box ever since:

"Until one is committed there is always hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness concerning all acts of initiative and creation.

There is one elementary truth, the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: The moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. All sorts of things occur to help that would never otherwise have occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising to one?s favor all manner of unforeseen accidents and meetings and material assistance which no man could have dreamed would come his way.

Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it.
Boldness has genius, power and magic in it."


Good luck

Jim McChesney
Tucson, AZ
RV-7A finishing
N622WR
 
osxuser said:
...but if engineers can build these airplanes, anyone can... (sorry, I just had to say it...)

Heck....even girls can build these things.

Now quick, somebody hide me from Roberta... :p
 
osxuser said:
but if engineers can build these airplanes, anyone can... (sorry, I just had to say it...)
That is sooooo hilarious!!!:p :p My side hurts from laughing so hard on that one!
 
Ditch-Lots of good advice here as always!
Another nice thing about building a Van's plane is you can be as much of a loner or a social animal as you want to be. You can keep all of your hard earned knowledge to yourself or freely give it away. Be as selfish or generous as you want.
The whole gamut lurks or participates in these forums, EAA chapters, breakfasts, airshows, and on and on. Whatever skill, building, or "emotional growth" stage you're at, this is a great place to be! Many of the best people you will ever meet, virtually and/or in person...
 
Well, after thinking about it all day AGAIN.... I think I made up my mind to go ahead and do it. I'm 37, have a nice 3 car garage that just holds a pickup, single, and a good job. Should have plenty room. I really can't see why I shouldn't do it other than getting past the fear of ordering the first part. I've had 2 houses built in the last 3 years. Basements were totally empty and I finished them both doing absolutely everything myself from electrical, framing, sheetrock, mudding and even put in a couple fire places. Learned everything as I went along. Thats kind of how I am. Grew up on farm and you learn that you have to do things yourself to get them done right. My friends give me **** because once I start something I won't quit till its done. They said I would be the same with an airplane. I don't doubt them one bit. Plus going through A&P school, I think I'd be ok.
This is what I had originally planned. Save up the money and do it when I retire. I started thinking, the body is going to hurt alot more at 57 than 37 and I want to have it done before then. I can probably come up with 6-7 grand a year to put toward it. Probably up to 10 if I were to really pinch pennies but I still want to have a beer now and then. I figure if it takes 8 to 10 years thats just about perfect timing. Still have 10 years of flying before I retire. I know that I will run out of cash before running out of patience or ambition. So there you have it..... You'll probably be seeing alot from me in the future and I hope to gain alot of extra knowledge from all of you. WISH ME LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!
 
osxuser said:
My question is this, what didn't you like about A&P school?
Well, I didn't not like it. I wanted to fly more than anything but after getting my private and seeing how much cash a degree in aeronautics was going to cost, I decided that if I couldn't afford to fly them for a living, I would work on them, just to be around them. A high paying job presented itself to me and I was tired of being broke from college. I took the job and just figured that I could get my own someday and fly when I wanted to. And here I am, at someday. I just talked to a commuter pilot and he said if he had to do it over again, he would get a high paying job, buy his own plane and fly when ever he wanted to instead of flying when they wanted him to.
 
Ditch

For gosh sakes, do not wait until you retire if you can work it!! I did wait. I finally decided to build an RV-7A at Sun & Fun in 2002 after 8 years of going to OSH to determine the plane I wanted after I retired. I am now 68. Started my canopy plexi yesterday. I had a year and one half when I had to do other things,( had prostrate cancer, wife retired, had to get house ready to sell etc).

I so wish my plane was done so I can fly!!!. I love the building but want to fly. I worry that I won't be able to pass a medical, (passed last year, hopefully I will pass it next year to). No one close to me to fly with or see a real Vans aircraft to see if I am doing it right.

I am bound and determined to finish the plane this year. working 8 to 13 hours a day to do just that.

Like the guys say, GIT-R-DONE!!!

Good luck and pound those rivets!

Carl Nank

RV-7A, Canopy
 
ditch said:
.....Every day at work I have myself totally convinced to do it and when I got home I seem to switch gears. Want to be totally sure before I commit though.

The prime issue is commitment. It's like getting married, some are ready for it some not.

Beyond that, the reason you get a head ach is you are trying to digest the entire project in one stroke. It can't be done. Take it one step at a time and it will all work. Example, don't be cluttering your mind about electric stuff when building the rudder. Focus on the rudder and then move on the next step.

If your mind can not separate the project into such steps and not be all cluttered with stuff not applicable for the task at hand, it might be best to buy an airplane already built. You will not enjoy the project.
 
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