WXBRIEF - Let's take it's pulse

We are a large number of active pilots from just about everywhere. Please chime in on this and share recent experiences that you've had with the FSS's. How are they doin'? I keep reading that there are problems, but have only had reasonably good service myself. I'm finding that the horror stories are simply not matching up with the briefings that I'm getting. How about your experiences?

Best,

Horrible. I haven't gotten through. Just been on hold and lost patience. Way to make the system SAFE...not.

5-10 minute wait

on a nice Sunday morning. (Hey I live near the DC ADIZ, gotta constantly check for TFR's even for a local flights).

The wait to get to a human was not so bad, but due to their integration of new systems, well, they clearly aren't ready. The poor briefer apologized at least 4 times because his systems were so slooooowwwww. It took about 10 minutes and I only asked for an abbreviated briefing - surface and winds aloft and TFR's/NOTAMS.

Sounds like they weren't fully tested with their new systems before they deployed. My friend works for FSS, so I'll have to get the updated skinny post deployment. He did say that a lot of old FAA briefers were resisting their assimilation into the Borg, er ah, LM collective. His impression was that older FAA guys are unhappy and in his opinion are often rude to callers. Many were complaining that they would leave once the new system was implemented. These guys are used to the old bureaucratic ways and now have to learn to deal with real corporate America - undoubtedly a bitter pill for them to swallow.

I must say that prior to the most recent downsizing to 19 centers, the newer briefers were fantastic. I almost never had a wait time and the briefers were polite and helpful. That could be because I have a huge FSS in my area - one of the 19 remaining and they were undoubtedly gearing up.

Now, I have wait times too.

Lousy. Long holds (3-5 minutes. Trunk switched to FSS in KY vs VT. Lost flight plans. Phone search initiated after closing flight plan.

Not good service in my opinion. Much worse than last year. And to think, WE MAY GET THE HONOR OF BEING CHARGED FOR THIS!

Jekyll

Prior to the "consolidation" of the FTW FSS, it was fine. Hold times have been short, 2-3 minutes.

Since then, I haven't gotten through to a briefer once in three tries. Longest hold time was 15 minutes - I didn't want to give up because I was worried about TFRs and didn't have my laptop handy (YEA WeatherMeister).

Terrible. Shortest hold time has been over 15 minutes which is not surprising when a "standard briefing" is now a good 15 mins. My last briefing was for a 160 nm flight in south FL, the guy was giving me weather info for the NC and DC because it mattered (???). When I tried to tell him I didn't care about any weather system north of FL, he started to tell me why I should and that it wasn't a system. My last few briefings have been long, but the weather was more complex and they were just giving me a very accurate picture.

I think if they shorten their briefing back to the way the FAA did it, the system will work again.

I don't use it!

I still call Riverside AFSS directly, which will be open until 5/21, then I will use Hawthorne, which is scheduled to remain open until mid-june. Then I'll say screw that and use DUATS . It's a worthless system in it's current form.

dan said:

Horrible. I haven't gotten through. Just been on hold and lost patience. Way to make the system SAFE...not.

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Ditto here!

Useless.

It won't let me write just one word so I had to write this sentence too....

I have not been using it much but..

Last Sunday I call from the Seattle area and got right through to the briefer.
I didn't even have to listen to a security phone message. I ask for weather and NOTAM info to the Portland area. Got what I needed and 3 minutes later headed to the airport.

This worked well for me. The last time I call was almost one year ago.

Kent

Horrible, takes over 30 minutes to file a flight plan and get a standard briefing if you are lucky enough to get thru!

The strange thing is now they tell me to slow down!

I was doing some IFR training work the other day and asked for a standard briefing for a 30 minute flight. The briefer admitted he was in Fort Worth Texas. (I am in East Tennessee)

How would you feel about that briefing if you were about to fly into actual IMC?

No Idea....

I really don't know how well they're doing, because I haven't called for a live briefing in so long, I don't even think I have it in the memory of my current phone!

No granted, I have better than three decades of looking at weather from the cockpit and the ground, and I have been fortunate to have a little more training than the average pilot. But frankly, there are so many excellent sources of weather and flight briefing information available on the 'net and over satellite that I think you can get a far better picture using those tools than getting a voice-only description on the phone. Remember how revolutionary the Weather Channel was when it started? You could flip it on in the morning and get REAL weather maps within ten minutes of watching, and have a good idea about the "big picture" for the day!

Today, I use Weathermeister for detailed and up to the minute "briefings before heading to the airport. I use The VAF weather page and ADDS for outlooks. U usually bring up DUATs for a briefing if I want an official "record" of my weather checks, and to file IFR. I even use the Weather Channel's weekly weather maps for long range trend information. (I also have a room full of NOAA weather forecasters at work, and I sometimes bother them if I don't understand what is supposed to be happeining....)

And I can do all of this while other guys are waiting on hold!

Once I head to the airport, I turn on the 396, let the XM warm up, and I have everything I need for the flight. I can be in the middle of the desert with no cell phone or computer coverage, and I can get the sequence reports, TAFs, winds aloft, TFR's, radar....all right in the cockpit.

I'm afraid that the only time I have talked to an FSS guy in the past couple of years is to offer pilot reports on Flightwatch.....



Paul

Ironflight said:

(I also have a room full of NOAA weather forecasters at work, and I sometimes bother them if I don't understand what is supposed to be happeining....)

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Paul, what is the phone number there?

Kent

FSS GOOD TO ME

I've had great luck with FSS, both in SoCal out of North Island (KNZY) and now at NAS JAX (KNIP).

Often I would use DUATS first and then update the info with FSS prior to T/O.

Maybe just lucky??

The local AFSS are great, it's the 1-800-WX-Brief number with the stupid redirect system which sucks. I think it has something to do with locality too.

Flighty service

At the moment, the weather rock just outside the FBO is more responsive and informative than WXBRIEF. I have not been able to talk to a briefer since the change occured.

The unresponsiveness is a real pain because my CFII prefers a verbal briefing rather than using either of the DUATs. The mess nearly caused me to cancel an IFR training flight because we spent so much time trying to file a dang flight plan. (finally did through DUAT)

unhappy people

most recent call (week ago) was with a person who sounded like he really didn't want to be there. everyone has bad days, but it sounds like this might not be atypical.

Did you use a cellphone?

Brantel said:

. . . The briefer admitted he was in Fort Worth Texas. (I am in East Tennessee)

How would you feel about that briefing if you were about to fly into actual IMC?

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Are you sure you called from the same area code as the area you are in (i.e, not from a cellphone or Vonage?)

The last visit to a FSS...

I was at the Rancho Murieta AFSS for the last FSS tour / Wings seminar they would ever have as a FAA organization - just a month or so before the takeover. Gee, they sort of seemed a bit bitter... heard stories of people who had just a few months short of earning a retirement but would be denied a new job with the FAA and Lockheed. Seemed like the older guys were to be kept on just long enough to help Lockheed take over then they would be out of a job. Didn't sound good.

The last time I called FSS I got through within two minutes and was given a helpful briefing.

--REK

Ralph Kramden said:

Are you sure you called from the same area code as the area you are in (i.e, not from a cellphone or Vonage?)

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I called on a land line, was on hold for 30 minutes and yes the system transfered me. The briefer said to me that it happens all the time now....

Add to that there is no music when you hold. Sometimes I think I've been disconnected.

When they privatized, I used them a couple times, but they were a little pissy. I don't file file plans anymore, and just call the wife before takeoff and after landing if cross-country for the search and rescue aspect (wait, maybe I better change back ). DUATS etc gives all the weather I need.

weather briefing

I rarely us them any more, unless I'm not near a computer, if one is available I use www.weathermeister.com , custom fit to my airplanes.

Dangerously Bad

I call 1-800-WXBRIEF every time I fly IFR and it seems that the once proud FSS gets worse all the time. I will wait whatever time it takes to get through but I no longer have confidence in what I am told. On a recent trip from northwest Arkansas to Charleston, SC weather was IMC and I refueled at Musscle Shoals, AL. Because of the prevailing IMC I called for a weather update. I was told that conditions were bad along my already filed IFR flight plan route with a line of thunderstorms just south of Atlanta moving northeast. So I got out my charts and planned a more northerly route over Chattanooga then I called again to change the flight plan on file. The new briefer sounded like he had very little experience and did not inspire confidence but he contradicted what I had been told by the earlier briefer and said that my new route was much worse than the the one I had on file. For some reason I believed him and continued on my original flight plan route and experienced very bland IMC. Then, this past weekend as reported in another thread (How is your flight service lately) I filed IFR from Taylor, TX to Fayetteville, Arkansas and had to pick up my clearance after takeoff (no tower and no contact could be made on the ground). The clearance could not be found by Austin Approach and I had to call FSS and re-file at low altitude under a solid overcast. The briefer was hesitant but eventually we worked it out and his last words were there were some typos in the original flight plan but the controllers should be able to find it now. Well, Houston said there was nothing in the system at first but after some discussion the controller found it. I believe that the FSS job which was once a career with long tradition and personal responsibility for providing the aviator with the best weather information for the safety of flight has been awarded to a private contractor who sees it as a business they are in until the next contract award without the same long term commitment of the old government FSS system. The difference that I have experience is one of continuing decay.

Bob Axsom

Another vote for DUATS. I use CSC Duats almost exclusively. I use flight following for most VFR if I am going anywhere but local and don't use VFR flight plans. I will call for abbreviated if out a long time or have a long delay from duats to take off just to check for TFRs / NOTAMS. Sometimes I get right through and sometimes not

wx brief report

I have had noticably longer waits but only 5-10 minutes. I think where it really is degraded is the lack of local knowledge. Before my briefer could answer specific questions about specific mountain passes, etc. Now I am talking to someone in Dallas, Tennessee, anywhere really and they don't know the airports or mountains in Montana. A lot of times a tight satelite pic or radar or pilot reports make all the difference flying around here, and I haven't found exactly what I need online either, I will try weathermeister. I gave up on duats a long time ago. I can't wait for weather in the cockpit.

Hans Conser

You Don't remember?

Maybe you don't remember the problems on our turks trip. It took us 47 minutes of hold to get a human to file out outbound ICAO flight plans the night before we left Homestead. I called the Denver FSS to file and the guy said they were not trained on ICAO and I needed to call Miami. On the return trip our flight plans did not get canceled and they informed us they had started the search and rescue when on the plan from the turks to the bahamas. MIA FSS dropped the ball on the cancle. Rosie had no flight plan filed when entering the ADIZ and they stuck him on Jim's (enroute) when the stuff hit the fan. Jim and I both filed for all the planes.

Yes, FSS is muffed up big time.

Gary

Bryan Wood said:

We are a large number of active pilots from just about everywhere. Please chime in on this and share recent experiences that you've had with the FSS's. How are they doin'? I keep reading that there are problems, but have only had reasonably good service myself. I'm finding that the horror stories are simply not matching up with the briefings that I'm getting. How about your experiences?

Best,

Click to expand...

zilik said:

Maybe you don't remember the problems on our turks trip. It took us 47 minutes of hold to get a human to file out outbound ICAO flight plans the night before we left Homestead. I called the Denver FSS to file and the guy said they were not trained on ICAO and I needed to call Miami. On the return trip our flight plans did not get canceled and they informed us they had started the search and rescue when on the plan from the turks to the bahamas. MIA FSS dropped the ball on the cancle. Rosie had no flight plan filed when entering the ADIZ and they stuck him on Jim's (enroute) when the stuff hit the fan. Jim and I both filed for all the planes.

Yes, FSS is muffed up big time.

Gary

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Gary,

Yeah I remember that stuff, but thought that it might have been more to do with the international briefers and services. Everything getting to Florida from California went smooth for us with the exception of a FSS in Texas talking down to me for giving them a wheels up time in local time. Out here I've never used zulu and have never been called to the carpet on it. This guy wouldn't open my flight plan until he belittled me a bit. Anyway it was pretty harmless.

When I started this thread it was originally pretty nasty, but before I hit send I realized that everything I had written was second hand. In the two previous days a friend had called me to go online and get him information while he sat in his plane on the ramp and waited. He simply couldn't get thru to a briefer and needed to know if there were TFR's or adverse conditions since he had left home. On the third day he had called to tell me about a briefing that contradicted the local news weather and he sided with the briefer in Prescott and decided to fly. This was for a return flight to San Jose from Fresno around 10p.m. Fog was the conflict and the in flight briefer said there were no worries while the local news had said it would roll in before dark. Well, the local news was right and he had a heck of a time getting home. Since I hadn't personally experienced long waits or bad service I re-wrote the thread to see what others are experiencing.

Now this weekend I got to experience what others are enjoying. For a flight from San Jose, CA to Clear Lake, CA I got a briefer that sounded like I was talking to another planet. The connection was bad, the volume would get very loud and then decrease to where I could barely hear, the briefer had a very strong accent and sounded like I was talking to somebody in Georgia. This would be great if I were flying near Georgia, but I wasn't. The voice of a briefer sitting next to him sounded as if he was inside the phone of the person I was talking to. I asked about this and he said that they are now sitting close together with no partitions and that a lot of pilots had complained about the interference. Somewhere around this point he told me that "The System" didn't recognize my destination airport of 1O2 and asked for something close by that he could use. With Ukiah plugged into his system he started reading me information about the taxiways and lights at Ukiah. When I told him that I didn't need that information because I was going to 1O2 he seemed confused. At this point he asked if there was anything else that I would like and since he hadn't given anything useful yet I asked for winds aloft and TFR's. He stated that this system didn't have winds and he needed to change systems. ??? After a minute or so of him groaning he told me that he couldn't get in to see winds aloft. Then he said there is a TFR for the Redding area, but nothing in Northern California. For those of you unfamiliar like the briefer, Redding is in Northern California. I took the radial and distance from the VOR and we hung up. I had waited 18 minutes on hold for this conversation. I know because I started the stop watch function on my watch when I hit dial. Overall the service was pretty bad!

So here's my conclusion. Weathermeister for a brief and then a nice 396 or 496 Garmin to take care of me enroute for weather and TFR's. The way you and Jimmy Baker lead the way around harms way on the Turks trip with your Garmin's have me sold. It looks like one of these little gismos will be much more valuable than wx-brief.

Blue Skies,

For the rest of us that have to use WX-brief

For the rest of us that have to use WX-brief I hope this finds its way into the AOPA bucket that is collecting info on this service. Of course they have bigger fish to fry and this will not be handled by the A Team with feeling I pretty sure.

Bob Axsom

Just be glad most of you do not have to file ADIZ flight plans. We used to call Leesburg directly where the guys there knew exactly how to file these plans. Now by calling their direct line it is supposedly routed to a specific ADIZ filing group but thats a bunch of you know what. This came up at my flying club meeting the other day where other guys were getting FSS from all over the country and the briefers have no clue how to file an ADIZ flight plan.

Over Memorial Day weekend I flew a bridge patrol sortie where we have pre-stored flight plans and squak codes. The briefer insisted that it was not pre-stored and that I had to give him a full plan (this patrol takes place in the ADIZ). Of course I didn't have it all plotted so I asked him to wait while I gave him the radials and he got mouthy....so I got mouthy right back and told him that he would have to wait for me since he couldn't figure out how to pull up the plan. If he continued the manager at that station would have gotten a call.

One of the guys at my flying club is involved in GA at Lockheed Martin and he got a earful on Tuesday. Nice guy but has no control over this stuff.

Thanks, Lockheed, for making SWRFI possible

My first CFI told me that contacting FSS for a briefing is mandatory because if you have an incident due to weather and they don't have a record of your call, that's proof you did not make use of all available information.

So much for that idea...

On my trip to Hondo last weekend, I was planning to go early to beat the traffic, so I was on the horn to FSS at 6:30. No problems on that call, I got right though. Of course I had to negotiate the new phone menu. Not sure why they can no longer tell I'm in Houston (TEXAS....EAST) from the caller ID, but at least I got through.

I discovered that everyplace other than my house was IFR and they didn't expect the airmet to lift until 8-9:00. So at 7:30, I started calling again. I never did get back in. I tried three times, waiting on hold at least 15 minutes on each attempt. After a while, from what I could tell on-line, it looked like things were pretty clear down around Victoria and at San Antonio, so I planned a southern route. We decided to launch, at about 9:00.

So we're on top, about 50 south of LaGrange, and I'm checking every AWOS I can reach and everywhere I can find is below 700. The holes are starting to fill in and the cloud deck is coming up to meet me. Before I know it, we're at 7500 and climbing over a solid deck. We decide that if there's not a hole on the other side of that next ridge, we're turning back, but we were in luck -- a big hole showed up just as we cleared the top. I tuned to Hondo approach and I could hear them bringing others in, so I spiraled down and found the bottom at 1700 (about 700 AGL). A little close for comfort, but I can follow the road to Castroville, and then we're home free. The closer we got, the higher the ceiling, and by the time we reached "the bridge" we were at a comfortable 2000'.

So everything worked out, thanks to FSS (not!). It was a little tense for a while, but maybe it's a good thing I couldn't get through. After all, they would have just given me the usual "VFR not recommended", and I would have stayed home. As it was, everything worked out fine and we had a great day as SWRFI.

Of course, it's not too hard to imagine a different scenario...