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O320-E2D…will it fit?

R

rightrudder

Well Known Member
I'm exploring engine options for my RV-9A, and Van's wasn't completely sure if the E2D variant would work. Does anyone have experience with this particular engine, or know what modifications would be required for it to fit?
 
Good to hear that. The engine I'm investigating came out of a Cessna 172K, and the guy at Van's thought that potentially the oil sump might interfere with the mount/nose gear.
 
Make sure it has provisions for a mechanical fuel pump. Some E2Ds off older C172s were set up for gravity feed fuel only.
 
Yes, the accessory case can be machined for a fuel pump and push rod or you can go electric fuel pump it the accessory case does not have a fuel pump pad. :)
 
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Not really trying to give advice because I'm still early in my very slow build. I've seen good deals on engines come and go since I've started and decided to wait until the finishing kit phase to decide. Gives me time to think about getting this proseal off of everything.
 
Neal@F14 said:
Make sure it has provisions for a mechanical fuel pump. Some E2Ds off older C172s were set up for gravity feed fuel only.
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I've got an E2D off a 172 in my RV-4. It did not have provision for the pump but did have the hole drilled inside the accessory case for the pushrod used to drive one and the pad machined where it would bolt on. All that was required was to swap out the mag drive gear for one with the cam in it to drive the pushrod, stick the pushrod in the hole, and bolt on the mechancial pump.

Of course you have to remove the accessory case to do that. I can tell you from personal experience you can accomplish that task with the engine mounted on the front of an RV-4. I can also tell you that it would take about a tenth of the time to do it when the engine is dismounted. Some lessons you learn in this game by being too stubborn and ignorant to actually know what you are doing and by figuring it out the hard way. Then there are those smart enough to ask good questions and heed advice. I learned the hard way . But I'm passing on the lesson for free?

PS - if you don't have one gets a parts list manual for such engine. THen al the part numbers of the missing pieces will be spelled out with nice exploded diagrams. A call to any Lycoming distributor will get the parts on their way in no time. Don't forget to order new gaskets for the accessory case and oil pan (yes it needs to come off, too) to facilitate reassembly.
 
Thanks, guys. Yes, I'm in the very early build stages, but I don't want to pass up a good deal on an engine if I come across one. Probably best to read, read, read and wait till I'm nearing completion, as S. Pinkerton suggests. I'm going to learn a ton out at Planes of Fame this weekend at Chino?so looking forward to that!

If I go electric pump only for a carbureted engine, would I need something more than a boost pump? Or plumb two pumps in parallel for redundancy?
 
I have an E2D on my 9A. It fits just fine without any modifications whatsoever. I elected to design an all-electric fuel delivery system rather than have the accessory case machined for a mechanical pump and purchase the necessary hardware.

I gave a lot of thought to redundancy and failure modes of both the pump system and the electrical power system. Several others on the board have also successfully eliminated the mechanical pump.

*edit - I just remembered I did shorten the oil dipstick tube. As removed from the Skyhawk, my engine had one section of dipstick tube that was bout 10.5" long mated to another shorter piece about 3.5" long if I remember right. It interfered just slightly with my oil door latches when I put the top cowl on, so I took the short extension tube off, cut the bottom of the dipstick itself off by the same amount, and re-marked the dipstick for oil levels in the sump the first time I filled it with oil. Not a big deal at all.
 
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The -E2G is the similar one to the -E2D but with an aft carb. that will interfere with the nose gear.
 
Changing the accessory is simple and easy. I did it with my orignal O-290, which is pretty much the same as an O-320.

See my Engine Page for details.

You will only need gaskets for the sump, accessory case, and anything else that attaches to the accessory case. (Buy the entire gasket kit, you will use most of them at one time or another.)

You can order the proper accessory case, cam gear, and plunger from any of the salvage yards for reasonable prices. In 2005 I bought yellow tagged parts and paid $91 for the gear, $40 for plunger, $18 for the two gaskets (accessory and sump), and I think $150 for the accessory case.

While you are at it, you can switch it over to use an oil filter, if it currently has just an oil screen.

It looks like you will have to change out the sump, so this is a great time to do the accessory case swap.
az_gila said:
The -E2G is the similar one to the -E2D but with an aft carb. that will interfere with the nose gear.
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N941WR said:
It looks like you will have to change out the sump, so this is a great time to do the accessory case swap.
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I think Gil was saying the E2G would require a sump change, not the E2D. My E2D with original sump and carb fit just fine with the 9A mount, nosegear, cowl, airbox, etc.
 
I have an O-320 E2D from a 172 in my RV-9A. We did change the rear accessory case to one with the fuel pump mount. I also changed the pistons up to 8.5-1 compression to get 160 Hp, and added Airflow Performance Fuel Injection. Works great and no issues with fit. I did buy the larger O-360 fuel injection lower cowl in the finish kit. Otherwise you will have to modify your filtered air box mount to clear the sides of the narrower O-320 lower cowl.

Engine pictures here.
 
Some years ago while sitting in my truck at KLVK eating lunch and watching traffic (daydreaming) an RV 4 came screaming down the taxiway, rolled to a stop, pilot jumped out and just stood there. I went over as it was apparent he was in trouble and was he lucky. Lucky to be over an airport! 2 electric fuel pumps plumbed properly but one battery and one alternator with a broken field wire. Just something to consider, if you go all electric be sure to set up an alarm if the charging system fails. Stuff happens!
This person said----- when I get home I will make provisions for a mechanical fuel pump before I fly this plane again. It scared the Cra-p out of him for sure. Larry
 
I have an E2D in my -6. I got a bargain at Oshkosh on a gear case that was machined for the mechanical fuel pump. I also changed the ring gear to one with a smaller diameter sheave to keep the speed down on my Denso alternator. It's worked fine for 290 hours.
 
Thanks, everyone. This information is hugely helpful! If I go full electric, I will have an enormous annunciator light for the charging system, to go along with the oil pressure light.
 
rightrudder said:
Thanks, everyone. This information is hugely helpful! If I go full electric, I will have an enormous annunciator light for the charging system, to go along with the oil pressure light.
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Don't bother with the warning light. The lack of engine noise will be warning enough.

If you go all electric, you might as well go with automotive type EFI and Light Speed ignition because houyou will need a complex electrical system to keep you in the air anyway.

Just think of the possibilities.
 
Complex electrical system?

Why would a SD-20 backup alternator and a direct battery connection for at least 1 pump not provide redundancy for any single failure? It's not a terribly complex system.
 
I meant full electric for the fuel pumps only. The plan is to build a very simple carbureted day-VFR aircraft with steam gauges. I did splurge for the electric elevator trim :) and will certainly fit wingtip & tail strobes/landing light(s) for better visibility in the pattern.
 
Before you commit to backup electrical system to keep two pumps running at least investigate the costs of the mechanical option. Adding one to an -E2D is dirt simple if the accessory case is set up to do so. If it isn't you can probably get a decent trade in for one that is from any large engine shop who probably has some lying around collecting dust.

Once you had all the parts in place you could do the swap in under an hour.
 
krw5927 said:
Complex electrical system?

Why would a SD-20 backup alternator and a direct battery connection for at least 1 pump not provide redundancy for any single failure? It's not a terribly complex system.
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An extra alternator, wiring, and battery(?) does add weight and complexity. Simple as that.

rightrudder said:
I meant full electric for the fuel pumps only. The plan is to build a very simple carbureted day-VFR aircraft with steam gauges. I did splurge for the electric elevator trim :) and will certainly fit wingtip & tail strobes/landing light(s) for better visibility in the pattern.
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I hear you but since you are going to have to add a backup alternator and systems to feed your electric pump, you might as well look at all the other options.

Here is something to keep in mind...
Some day you might want to sell your airplane. Having a non-standard aircraft system, especially something as critical as your fuel system, might make your RV very difficult to sell.

My mentor built his -6A with an “H” engine and rather than having a bump on the front of his cowl to accommodate this oddball engine, he put a fuel pump in each wing root. To switch tanks he simply turned one pump on and the other off. He had a backup battery to feed his pumps, just in case.

On takeoff he would turn on both pumps, just in case one fails. That is not really any different than the rest of us.

However, after he passed on (natural causes), the new owner of his plane installed the engine driven pump and moved to a more “standard” fuel system before he would fly it. The family sold his beautiful -6A for much less than market value because of the fuel system. The buyer was local and had the skills to modify the plane.

Just something to think about.
 
N941WR said:
I hear you but since you are going to have to add a backup alternator and systems to feed your electric pump, you might as well look at all the other options.
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I certainly don't mean to pick on you, Bill, but it is simply not true that a backup alternator is even required.

All airplanes with alternators have two redundant sources of electrical power: alternator and battery. For a simple VFR machine like the OP mentioned he's building, even an old, worn out PC-680 battery near the end of its life for cranking ability will be able to power a small fuel pump for a duration that will outlast the fuel supply, should a single alternator give up the ghost.

I do agree with your point on resale value.

The fact is that an all-electric fuel delivery system has been done successfully and safely by many on this forum. Sure, it's not a "standard", per-the-plans build (most RVs have at least one modification that is not exactly per the plans). But it's not a difficult or inherently unsafe modification, either. And there are ways to do it that are quite easy to change over in the future to a mechanical pump, should a buyer want that.
 
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krw5927 said:
...The fact is that an all-electric fuel delivery system has been done successfully and safely by many on this forum. Sure, it's not a "standard", per-the-plans build (most RVs have at least one modification that is not exactly per the plans). But it's not a difficult or inherently unsafe modification, either. And there are ways to do it that are quite easy to change over in the future to a mechanical pump, should a buyer want that.
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I don't argue the point with you and if you read my prior post, I mention the use of a backup battery. The primary is at risk, along with the alternator, thus a properly isolated backup battery is a good thing.

My earlier point was that if the OP is going to an all-electric fuel delivery system, then why not look at other options such as an automotive type electronic fuel injection system? Or other systems.

If the OP is looking for a simple system, then stay with the tried and true. Even if he forgets to turn on the electric fuel pump for takeoff, chances are good that he won't realize it until he reaches down to turn off the already off fuel pump.

While many of us have differed from the plans, history has shown that most engine stoppages in the early life of EAB's are the result of changes to the fuel system.

When I discuss systems with new builders, one thing I strongly suggest they avoid is making changes to the "traditional" fuel delivery system.
 
I appreciate all input here. I've got a lot of time to weigh my decision, and ultimately I may spend more and take advantage of Van's discounted new Lycomings?especially if I go with the Sensenich metal prop for the combo deal.

I was thinking along the lines of KRW in that battery power alone would support an electric pump for quite some time. As for forgetting to turn the pump on, I'm a strong advocate of following the checklist in every phase of flight, so I don't think I'd overlook it. A setup that's safe is Priority No. 1, and I'm not averse to going the mechanical/boost pump route. Just weighing options.

Resale considerations are not huge for me. Goes against the whole "building the plane I want" mentality. EFIS would help with resale, but steam gauges are my thing, etc.
 
Since this thread ran down I've bought and rebuilt an O-320 E2D for my RV-6.

Bought a used accessory case, push rod and LH mag gear. Already had the nearly-new Lycoming fuel pump from my outgoing, very old, narrow deck, D2B.

It is a VERY easy change to the E2D to use the different accy case and bits with the fuel pump. The word 'modification' seriously overstates the change - it's using Lyc parts on a Lyc engine so there is nothing 'experimental' about it all.

If you get the crank and rods inspected, overhauled and balanced, cases etc. inspected, new cam and lifters, new piston assemblies, the cylinders suitably overhauled (if not new) and do the rebuild yourself an E2D can be a sweet, light, willing powerplant for sensible money (well under $10,000 all in).
The trick, if any, is to start with a complete engine that has only just 'retired' from regular use in its previous aircraft, still runs, and hasn't sat corroding for months or years!
Mine was 20 years / 3000 hours old and in regular use until a wooden prop strike a month before I bought it: it ran OK after strike / before rebuild using a spare prop.

So Doug, what did you decide?
 
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E2d

I have an E2D in my 9 that I am building. I had the engine rebuilt.
Divco certified my case and in the process milled my accessory case for a fuel
Pump. It was not expensive and an easy fix.
 
E2D

rightrudder said:
I'm exploring engine options for my RV-9A, and Van's wasn't completely sure if the E2D variant would work. Does anyone have experience with this particular engine, or know what modifications would be required for it to fit?
Click to expand...


My brother and I put an E2D in our RV-4. It fit perfectly. It appears to be the same configuration as the 0-320 Van sells. Just make sure it has a fuel pump mounting pad. Ours did. If it comes directly out of a Cessna 172, it may not have the pad machined and drilled. It has 7/16" prop bolts, but has the smaller two piece front crankshaft bearing.
 
E2D

rightrudder said:
Good to hear that. The engine I'm investigating came out of a Cessna 172K, and the guy at Van's thought that potentially the oil sump might interfere with the mount/nose gear.
Click to expand...


My brother and I built an RV-7A and an RV-4. The -7A has a Superior XP-360 and the -4 has an O-320 E2D. The sumps appear identical The carb on E2D in in the same position and on the EX-360.
 
Wow! Long time, no see on this thread.

I ended up going with the Van's plug-n-play YIO-320-D1A with a standard fuel system...mechanical pump on the engine and electric booster pump. A great setup. I'm on my third oil change, and on track to burn less than 1 quart in 25 hours.
 
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