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To all that posted tips!

s10sakota

s10sakota

Well Known Member
You all had some great tips here! Someone also mentioned that someone should put these into fortune cookies.

So I started collecting 'tips'...I solicited them from other forums, my EAA chapter, my little brain, and anywhere else I could get some...

Now I have a bunch of them! I thought I would start a tiny little buisiness to see if I could make a little extra money to build a plane! Naturally setting all this up cost me probably more money than I'll make...but at least it makes my trip to OSH a write off!!!

So I'm asking the posters of tips here if I can use them? If you don't want me using your creative tip, tell me which one it is and if I used it i will delete it!

Thank you so much!

Mark
 
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Hmmmm....

Hi Mark,

I'm all for folks figuring out a way to make a little money to pay for their projects....and quite frankly, the tips I have given here and in other places I have given away to the world for free, so I guess anyone can do whatever they want with them - including make money for themselves. I suppose I could have sold them myself, but chose not to....to be really fair, if I were doing what you're doing, my conscience would force me to at least give credit to the folks that gave the tips - maybe you're doing that, but you don't say. Asking folks to go through all the tips they have posted here and in other places, identify them, and then notify you not to use them seems just a little off to me....

I might be the only one that feels this seems a little funny, in which case, never mind....as I said, I give away my ideas pretty much for free (and that's all that some are worth...)

Paul
 
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My 2 cents worth...

It seems to me that our gracious host has created this website as a free resource for anyone and everyone. True, he does offer us the option to donate, which many of us have done. But it's still free to anyone who wants to use it for free. I guess I have a fundamental problem with someone taking something that's free and then repackaging it as something for sale. I suppose if Doug doesn't have a problem with it, then go for it. But I have a problem with it.

I'm all for free enterprise and capitalism in America. I'm certainly supportive of raising money to build a plane! I just don't think this is quite the right way to do it.
 
craigvince said:
snip... I suppose if Doug doesn't have a problem with it, then go for it....snip
Click to expand...
My gut says you might sell some (maybe enough to break even). You certainly have permission to use anything I've typed. Like Paul said above, I doubt you'll get a lot of people sending you stuff - you'll have to search most of it out yourself.

No MSG was used typing this message.

b,
dr
 
I feel a little more strongly about it than the others.

What you are doing is just plain wrong. It is akin to going to multiple convenience stores and lifting donations out of the Lukemia jars and spending the cash for your own benefit.

It is not going to make you many friends. I would suggest you use a different approach for your funding.
 
your comments...

Thank you all for your comments. The reason I posted my original post is because I too feel it just may not be morally right to take your creative 'tips' and use them. I suppose in a way, I was asking your permission.

Remember all the 'fortunes' are simply a humorous look at the trails and tribulations of building and airplane and are in no way a serious guide to building.

I really thought it would just be a fun thing to do and people would get a kick out of seeing their idea in a fortune cookie. Would I make any money? The startup costs are a little over $1,200 so probably not! And believe me...the profit margin on a 30 cent cookie is pretty darn low! But like I said, personally it would be a ton of fun for me and it was worth me doing.

Since I really want to build my own RV someday and I don't want the whole RV community mad at me (ha) I will not continue with my idea.

In response to the comment below...thank you. Yes I had everyone's name that posted a tip and those names would have appeared as a 'thank you' on my website. I also thought I could have Doug pick a 'winner' and I could send that person a bunch that they could eat or pass out at a chapter meeting or something.

Thank you again for your comments!

Mark
 
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Collecting and organizing tips

I respectfully disagree with Milt and agree with Paul and Doug. The effort you will expend to collect and organize these tips should justify your making any profit you can on them. The end result will be a value added collaboration with the value coming from your research and organization.

I also agree with Paul that you should give credit where credit is due and identify the source of the tips. I am sure you plan on doing this, and you don't need me to point out that you would not want to be seen as taking credit for others ideas. In some instances it will be hard to identify who actually originated an idea since often ideas are introduced by someone and refined by others.

Best of luck. I am not sure how successful this compendium will be when it is essentially available for free by using the "search" feature on this web site, but then I have a "low hanging fruit" approach to startup businesses -- i.e. how easy will it be to generate a decent return with minimal investment. (That comment is bound to get me in trouble, but what the heck.)

Antony
 
Personally, I have no problem with someone taking anything that I have posted and putting it on their web site, as long as credit is given to the original poster. I can understand why some people would be bothered by this though.

But, there are so many excellent free sources of info on the web that the market for purchased info will be quite low, IMHO. I doubt you'll ever make much money on the tips, or any ads (too low traffic) and the time spent working on the site would probably be better spent building the aircraft, or in an activity that would generate more revenue/hr.
 
There's a guy who took every good tip EVER on the RV List, catalogued them into a single searchable document and then gave it away for free. I know there's a copy on the file section of the YGroup but I'm not sure where else.

In the age of the incredible Google search engine, I'm not sure hard-copy RV ideas have significant value.

I usually just go up to the Google toolbar and type "can I use ProSeal as a laxative" or "if I accidentally spill oatmeal into my fuel tanks while building them, what should I do?" and it's amazing how quickly the answer appears.

Wish I'd thought of that Google thing first -- I'd have an engine and avionics by now. Well, actually I'd have several RVs and my own RV airport.
 
perhaps misunderstood?

Hi all,

Again, I am no longer proceeding with this idea. BUT I think everyone has the wrong idea of what I was going to do. Let me explain...

The 'tips' that are in the fortunes are not meant to be actual building tips. They are simply humorous, funny, and sometimes hilarious antidotes to building. Examples from here are "turn the compressor off before calling in sick" and "when someone starts talking about primer, run for the hills!"

The idea behind the fortune cookies is to have something funny to pass out to unsuspecting builders when they come to your house to inspect your project. Or to give away at chapter meetings and dinners, or pancake breakfasts, Young Eagle fly-ins, etc...

Yes you are correct, anyone can get online and see them. But somehow I just don't see the humor in passing around a computer after your chapter meeting and looking at list of quotes!

And believe this or not, there are actually people out there that are building airplanes that don't start with "RV..." that probably aren't on this forum to see them.

Sorry guys, I can't compile them all, pay for a logo, shipping materials, advertising, printing costs, website, and everything else and GIVE them away. Yes...I actually have to sell them. Your idea isn't exactly making someone rich sitting inside a 30 cent fortune cookie.

Instead, we'll just leave them in digital form on a single webpage where they will sit forever, be forgotten, and 80% of the homebuilders will never see and enjoy them.



Mark



:confused:
 
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You have my permission and good luck wishes

Anything I put out there was put out there for help and if you make a serious effort to collect all the good information and make it available for more builder's who am I to object. One thing I have noticed is valuable information, and there is a lot of it that passes through this web site, is that over time it goes down the obscurity drain and gets raised again by another builder. The hard copy gives permanence to the information.

Bob Axsom
 
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My apologies. I missed the whole fortune cookie part. You know, that is a fine idea.

You won't make any money with it because your fortune cookie would have to be the size of a woodchuck to get the fortune in there. :D
 
Mark,
Don't fold your tent up yet. I think its a good idea and would be a great source of amusement.
Howie
 
I'm not a lawyer

Would someone pay for it if they can get it for free off the web, albeit you may have some takers for convenience or format, ie paper.

Others have done things like this, for example the "25 years of the RVator", which is rich with tips, a best of the RVator. I am sure that's with Van's permission he reprinted it. Not sure about copyright info on internet info, "public domain"? I was asked nicely to copy info I posted on another web site and I said sure.

Doug owns this site. When we post he kind of owns the info. We posters freely give the info for fun, to help each other and learn our self, not for profit. In fact the whole armature built experimental category of plane is for education not profit. You should as doug. If you used my stuff I would appreciate you asking or a credit.

We are talking ideas. Hard to put a finger on it and would someone sue you for it. You may want to ask a lawyer. If its not copy right than you probably are safe.

On the other hand there is nothing new under the sun, top secret, patent or proprietary info. Say if you write a book of tips and give credit for unique or original ideas you may be safe. However in the day of the lawyer, a ham sandwich can sue you for eating it.

Good Luck. You may just want to get a second job. You can go broke making money in aviation. Cheers
 
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gmcjetpilot said:
However in the day of the lawyer, a ham sandwich can sue you for eating it.
Click to expand...

And the waiter for serving it, and the chef for making it, and the guy at the next table for not doing anything about it....

And this just in: You can now sue Jeppesen for providing that flight plan that flew the bus driver that drove the chef that made the meat that.....

There's a hole,
There's a hole,
There's a hole at the bottom of the sea....
 
Sorry but I have a problem with someone trying to make money on someone else's creativity.

You can't just ask for a blanket approval, you will need individual approval, and give credit where due.

Cataloging and selling information is big business. The world is changing from who you know to what you know and how you use that information. Doubt you would make big $ with your venture but still.

The thing that makes this RV community great is that people invest their time and effort for free for others to benefit from it in their building experience. Not the financial gain.

My 2c, Regards,
Rudi
 
I feel very strongly that what you are doing is completely reasonable and fair. The work you did to ORGANISE and DISTRIBUTE the information is what people are paying for. The advice and tips are already free to everyone already, they just aren't organised and user friendly which is what your product is in my mind. I'm sorry people are responding in such a negetive manner to your idea. I see no difference in DR having advertising here and profitting (although it may not turn an actual profit, just offset costs) from peoples posts. I certainly support DR in collecting money in any way he can to continue offering this wonderful site for all of us. But when it comes down to it he is selling our posts whether they be funny, community support, entertainment, or build tips. His product is organising and distributing the posts which are offered for free to the world by each of us as we hit the post icon. I see your venture as the same thing.

I may be wrong and get flamed for this opinion but the posts/ideas that you are selling have already been given freely and completely to the world. Ownership has been forfitted and further permission is not necessary. Giving credit may be a nice touch though.

And really, who would stand in the way of the passing of information and knowledge to future builders and noobies. Isn't that why we are here on this site and look forward to posting a juicy tip in the first place??
 
You all need really need to read before posting

I know I'll incur the wrath of the list for this comment: but you all need to pay attention to the original post before posting.

What the gentleman is trying to do is start a business selling novelty fortune cookies to the experimental community. I think it is a GREAT idea and wish I had thought of it myself.

To the original poster: if I ever come up with a great idea (don't hold your breath) you are more than welcome to use it.

Here's a quote for your first fortune cookie: "If you are using this information to build your airplane I suggest you take up gardening"

You can attribute that to Jorge Martinez.
 
Do what other sites do

Create a website where people can submit their tips. Put a disclaimer on the site saying by submitting this you are granting... (blah blah).

Here's an example from another site (he's making good money off of other peoples confessions):

Legal Notice

By submitting information to ---, you grant ---- a perpetual, royalty-free license to use, reproduce, modify, publish, distribute, and otherwise exercise all copyright and publicity rights with respect to that information at its sole discretion, including storing it on ----- servers and incorporating it in other works in any media now known or later developed including without limitation published books.

If you do not wish to grant ---- these rights, it is suggested that you do not submit information to this website. ----- reserves the right to select, edit and arrange submissions, and to remove information from the PostSecret website at any time at its sole discretion.

No image from this site may be used for any purpose without expressed written authorization, with one exception; you may post one image as a link to this site.
 
Licences

I like this one - used by the "wiki" folks - I believe...

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/

I've put lots of stuff (useful, I hope... :)...) on the web for free, and expect it to be shared.

However, I don't expect others to profit from my work.... I put it out for free, it should stay for free... :D

gil in Tucson

Perhaps I'll add it to my VAF signature...
 
az_gila said:
I like this one - used by the "wiki" folks - I believe...

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/

I've put lots of stuff (useful, I hope... :)...) on the web for free, and expect it to be shared.

However, I don't expect others to profit from my work.... I put it out for free, it should stay for free... :D

gil in Tucson

Perhaps I'll add it to my VAF signature...
Click to expand...

No disrespect intended but...doesn't the owner of this site profit from our posts??
 
re: copyrights, patents, intellectual property, lawsuits etc etc....

uhm.....it's just a stupid little fortune cookie.

Doug could put an end to this silliness by updating the terms of service to grant himself non-exclusive rights to all posted material, including the right to license that material to others.

Then it would simply be a matter of asking Doug, "Can I put these in my fortune cookie?", to which he will undoubtedly reply, "Yes, just credit VAF".

And then everyone will be happy.

I would do this sooner, rather than later. You can simply delete the legacy posts of current users who don't wish to abide by the new TOS and settle this once and for all.

...just my simplistic view of a complex, litigious world. Sheesh.
 
jcoloccia said:
re: copyrights, patents, intellectual property, lawsuits etc etc....

uhm.....it's just a stupid little fortune cookie.

Doug could put an end to this silliness by updating the terms of service to grant himself non-exclusive rights to all posted material, including the right to license that material to others.

Then it would simply be a matter of asking Doug, "Can I put these in my fortune cookie?", to which he will undoubtedly reply, "Yes, just credit VAF".

And then everyone will be happy.

I would do this sooner, rather than later. You can simply delete the legacy posts of current users who don't wish to abide by the new TOS and settle this once and for all.

...just my simplistic view of a complex, litigious world. Sheesh.
Click to expand...
I would think it would only apply to new content, old content would be grandfathered by the previous TOS which I probably read and promptly forgot. I'm not a lawyer so I may be wrong.
 
It my choice to post here...

szicree said:
No disrespect intended but...doesn't the owner of this site profit from our posts??
Click to expand...

Maybe... in a tiny way... but I choose to put my tips/data here.

It's my choice to post on this site...

gil in Tucson
 
But of course...

This is a public forum, so I think legally anyone can use anything printed here as they choose. And as far as anything that I have placed on this forum I give my permission (which they don't need) to use it as they see fit.

Just don't hold me responsible for any trouble that my advise might cause "the party of the first part". :eek:

Kent
 
Nutrisystem?

I could see myself going through several bags of fortune cookies looking for that one tip I needed. That could really affect the useful load of the finished product...

Don't forget to put those lucky lotto numbers on the back of the fortune, some of us really need those. :cool:

Some other useful fortunes:

Chill out!

Don't give up!

You *can* do this!

Tools last longer if you don't throw them.

Etc.

Hey Doug, why is your tool box full of fortune cookie fortunes? LOL.
 
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