What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Landing attitude in the RV9A

Earl Findlay

Active Member
My granddaughter and I flew my RV9A today. On the Vans' RV Webinar a few nights ago we were told that we should not be able to see out the window straight ahead in the landing flare. I am finding that I can see out the window just fine, yet my nose is left quite high off the ground in the flare and my approach speed seems right - 55 Knots.

I ask you, my RV flying friends, when you are landing your RV9A, can you see out the window over the cowl in the flare? Or must you look left of the cowling almost with your head tilted (I guess) to be able to get depth perception?

I am really worried that I will prang the nosewheel on, but I know that I am keeping it off the ground until very slow. I am confused by this advice of not being able to see over the cowling in the flare.
 
Watched too.

I was on the interweb watching and listening the webinar too. I heard the same comment regarding looking down the side of the plane when landing...but I don?t think the comment applies to you. I believe they were speaking of landing a conventional, i.e., taildragger configuration.
Perhaps some one else can validate that.
 
Nose wheel planes tend to be quite forgiving of nose attitude at touchdown. That being said, you generally want to touch down at minimum possible speed, which means a nose high attitude. In my experience as a cfi, I?d say the vast majority of nose wheel pilots touch down with the nose lower than optimum. Next time you land, try to keep the main wheels 6? off the runway. Do not let the plane settle until the stall horn is on, or the stick is full aft. I think you?ll see the nose is higher than what you?ve been used to.
 
my approach speed seems right - 55 Knots.

I am really worried that I will prang the nosewheel on

Touching down at minimum speed is good but if you are approaching at 55 kt then just about any decent flare should have the mains touching before the nose wheel. Then it is just a matter of keeping the nose up till you run out of elevator. I am a bit wary of holding the nose up too high towards the end of the roll out as the nose wheel can drop down quite heavily when you run out of elevator. I prefer to control the nose wheel drop before the elevator gives up. Also if you are very nose high in the flare you will want to be just above the runway as the 9A can stall without warning and drop heavily.

Provided you approach at 55 to 60 kt, the mains touch first, you hold the nose up and the surface is firm you are very unlikely to “prang the nose wheel on”. The nose wheel/strut is actually quite forgiving and robust. I have well over 1000 landings in my 9A with most on my short, somewhat marginal grass strip. Often I have to prematurely lower the nose and with moderate to hard braking, the nose wheel/strut takes the punishment OK.

Fin 9A.
 
Last edited:
Missed it!

I would have loved to have seen that webinar. Can someone connect me with a link, or know if replays are available? Thanks.
 
I would think some of that depends on height and seating position. I'm short, and even with some extra seat cushion I can't see straight ahead in the flair. In transition training we worked a lot on getting the right sight picture out the left side, about 45 degrees ahead of the wing. If you are taller or sitting up higher you may be able to see over the nose.
Chris
 
If I approach at 55 knots and three point my -9, is. full stall landing, then I can see straight ahead, but not directly in front of the plane like I can with a wheel landing.

The point is, you should strive for full stall landings, which gets your nose up high, regardless if you are flying a tricycle or taildragger because the stall attitude should be the same.
 
I would think some of that depends on height and seating position. I'm short, and even with some extra seat cushion I can't see straight ahead in the flair. In transition training we worked a lot on getting the right sight picture out the left side, about 45 degrees ahead of the wing. If you are taller or sitting up higher you may be able to see over the nose.
Chris

I would agree on the seating position. During transition training with Mike I could not see over the nose and would lose sight of the end of the runway. I told him that before he suggested to look out the side. Allowing me to discover this myself, before suggesting, created a lasting memory.

I do have a 7, so that is a huge factor in the last second before touchdown. It sits at 12 deg on the ground.

I was a little surprised Mike did not mention in the webinar but he always said target for 10 ft over the threshold and 65 kts of less.

I need more practice in landings myself. :eek:
 
Have someone video several of your landings and take a look at the nose wheel position with maybe a small varity of different approach flap /speeds and you will develop a better " feel" for that nose wheel position.
 
I can see over the nose during landing in my 7A but not directly in front of me, which is not where one should be looking, anyway. I believe we are all taught to look down the runway, when landing.
 
I was on the interweb watching and listening the webinar too. I heard the same comment regarding looking down the side of the plane when landing...but I don?t think the comment applies to you. I believe they were speaking of landing a conventional, i.e., taildragger configuration.
Perhaps some one else can validate that.

Having flown with Mike, he's talking about nosewheel airplanes as well.
 
Nose wheel planes tend to be quite forgiving of nose attitude at touchdown. That being said, you generally want to touch down at minimum possible speed, which means a nose high attitude. In my experience as a cfi, I?d say the vast majority of nose wheel pilots touch down with the nose lower than optimum. Next time you land, try to keep the main wheels 6? off the runway. Do not let the plane settle until the stall horn is on, or the stick is full aft. I think you?ll see the nose is higher than what you?ve been used to.

I agree with everything that you've said above. However, my experience in the RV has been that the stick is nowhere near full aft at the time of the stall.
 
I have a -9A and use the following technique. My final approach speed is 65 kts, keeping the runway number stationary in the windshield ( about 3" above the glare shied windshield intersection) using power to maintain approach speed. Passing over the threshold, power idle and hold nose on the far end of the runway. It settles in nicely on the mains and I hold the nose wheel off until 40 kts and gently let it down. I almost always make the first turnoff without brakes. I like looking ahead during landing because we have arrogant coyotes that will trot onto the runway, stop and just stand there and look at you.
(pet peeve alert) Remember you are not clear of the runway until crossing the hold line. Enforced at tower controlled airports so I forced myself to get use to the habit pattern. Dan from Reno
 
My mental picture for flaring is to try to get the plane's cowling top surface level to the runway (6A, 7A, 9A doesn't matter, 8A is different). This seems to result with the nose wheel at the right height and speed for touch down.

An exercise I like to do to practice holding this attitude is perform T&Gs and precisely hold that attitude through the landing, configuration change, acceleration and TO, trying to not bob the nose attitude. I personally like the level cowling technique as I have flown many different RVs and seat height/view is different in all of them.
 
I would think some of that depends on height and seating position. I'm short, and even with some extra seat cushion I can't see straight ahead in the flair. In transition training we worked a lot on getting the right sight picture out the left side, about 45 degrees ahead of the wing. If you are taller or sitting up higher you may be able to see over the nose.
Chris

This is exactly where you should be looking for depth perception if you ever want to have full control over your mains touchdown spot. Try looking straight down a 10,000 foot runway at night that is 150 feet wide, you will think you are sinking into a hole without the signals that your brain will get from the runway lights that are on your left.
 
Back
Top