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IPad GPS dongle

J

JDanno

Well Known Member
Have you seen the new dongle for the IPad, IPod,IPhone that is a high quality GPS device that plugs into the 30 pin hole. Suppose to GREATLY enhance the GPS capabilities of these three devices. The app is free from the Apps store.
I'm thinking that this is what we have been waiting for to increase the capability of our IPhone and IPad devices to where they can reliably used for onboard navigation. It even has WAAS capability. Check out the web site or the app site. Www.bad-elf.com

No jailbreak required and look at the blog page as the owner is a pilot and has
a blog about it. This should enhance the use of the IPad as the gps built into it is kind of sketchy in my humble opinion.
It's on sale now for $99. Install and download the app.
 
BlueTooth GPS

I have a BlueTooth GPS that works well with my old HP PDA. Will it work with an iPod/iPad? Anyone who has one and knows? Thanks.
 
It appears to make a non- GPS unit into a....

...unit that is now a GPS unit, if I read the site correctly.

Yes/no?

Best,
 
That looks a little bit cumbersome to me. I wonder if one of these Garmin Bluetooth GPS receivers can't be adapted:

cf-lg.jpg
 
Cumbersome?? I don't know as it's about the size of a pack of matches. Maybe a "large" pack of matches. :) I've got one ordered so I'll soon find out. That said, I don't much like things hanging out of the IPad to catch on things. Also with a plastic top on my -10 the reception should be unaffected.
The other receiver GNS 5870 also looks interesting as it can be remotely located and powered. It looks to be about $150 (119.00 Euro).





LeeM_2000 said:
That looks a little bit cumbersome to me. I wonder if one of these Garmin Bluetooth GPS receivers can't be adapted:

cf-lg.jpg
Click to expand...
 
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Yes

Saw the FF booth at AOPA and the Bad Elf unit. It is a very good solution for those of us the have the WiFi only iPad. One of the guys there said they plugged it into the iPad on the commercial flight to the Summit. Locked on is seconds and had a great signal at almost 500 knots. That should suffice for the RV :D

pierre smith said:
...unit that is now a GPS unit, if I read the site correctly.

Yes/no?

Best,
Click to expand...
 
I though the ipad could just be rotated and the screen orients itself? Therefore putting the GPS at whatever position you desired; top, bottom, left or right.
 
Sure it does, and you can lock it in your desired position. Sometimes it's better to have a landscape orientation and sometimes better to have a portrait orientation.
 
Ipad GPS

Flew with the Ipad, Bad Elf GPS unit today. Worked well and more accurately although I Need to use it more to figure out how good it is. I unplugged it after a bit as it really takes a lot of power. I'm ordering a plug in 12 volt power supply which will connect to the GPS unit with a mini USB and charge the Ipad while it is being used. Having a wire hooked up I think will be a drag but would be necessary for a very long trip using the GPS unit. I think the Ipad would work well on a Knee board. Also got a capacitive stylus which is much better on the "scratch pad" than trying to take a clearance with you finger as the writing instrument.

Wastah
 
Wastah said:
... snip...

Also got a capacitive stylus which is much better on the "scratch pad" than trying to take a clearance with you finger as the writing instrument.
Click to expand...

James could you share what kind of stylus you got? Thanks.
 
LeeM_2000 said:
That looks a little bit cumbersome to me. I wonder if one of these Garmin Bluetooth GPS receivers can't be adapted:

cf-lg.jpg
Click to expand...

To get an accessory to be usable by any application without jailbreaking, it has to be an Apple-approved type thing with some "secret sauce" involved. It looks like this* may be the first GPS to do that after the TomTom in-car docks.

Edit: *This - meaning the USB dongle at the start of the thread. Not the bluetooth one pictured in the quote here.
 
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Lee,
the other unit (GNS 5870) may really be the better deal as it can be used remotely and powered thru a cig lighter socket. Being Bluetooth it could be placed anywhere to get a signal. The -10s have a fiberglass top so the reception should be good anywhere in the cockpit except under the dash. I really like the fact that it receives WAAS.



LeeM_2000 said:
I was trying to think of a nicer word than 'kludgey.' :eek: Anyway, it's just one dude's opinion on aesthetics. I think augmenting the iPad's GPS is a great idea. I am a little suspicious of how well it can work from the bottom of the iPad oriented such that the antenna faces away from the sky. My experience with the iPad in a Cherokee 180 is that as long as the top edge of the unit had a clear view of the sky, GPS reception was constant and surprisingly accurate when compared to the 430W/530W stack. Therefore, the only way I can imagine better iPad GPS reception in that airplane is if the antenna were sitting on the glareshield facing the sky. That said, I do trust the ForeFlight guys and look forward to hearing how well this new antenna works in your -10.:)
Click to expand...
 
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There is another BT GPS receiver that does work

I don't know if the Garmin one will work, but the Foreflight guys say this BT receiver will work.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004289ZW0?ie=UTF8&tag=foll0b-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B004289ZW0

Since they specifically mention iPad in the materials for it it must have the necessary drivers to work and I would not expect that just any BT receiver would work given the way Apple operates. The FF guys had one at AOPA and it is small and looks like a nice unit.


LeeM_2000 said:
That looks a little bit cumbersome to me. I wonder if one of these Garmin Bluetooth GPS receivers can't be adapted:

cf-lg.jpg
Click to expand...
 
JDanno

That GNS 5870 looks like a great solution. I should have read your earlier post more carefully. It does give me some pause that the reviews on Amazon are so iffy though.

One of the problems mentioned is that certain apps will not load on wifi-only ipads or ipod touches (devices without an internal GPS). This happens because developers sometimes don't expect them to have GPS capability, although Apple has already told them that this is not a good assumption to make. This should be sorting itself out over time.
That problem doesn't bother me nearly as much as Apple support claiming that it's not a "Made for iPod" device! (from the Amazon reviews)
 
Be aware that the BT receiver sold on Amazon, is shipped from the manufacturer in Germany at an additional cost of $60.00. You'll get it quickly, but that makes the GPS $160. I'd wait a couple weeks if you're thinking of buying this unit. The guys at the ForeFlight booth said they've had a lot of complaints this weekend about the $60 shipping and they are going to talk to the mfr in Germany this week to see about shipping them bulk so we can buy directly from ForeFlight.


By the way, does anyone have a 32g or 64g iPad wi/fi they want to sell? If you're thinking of upgrading to the 3G version, I'd like an older one. (I don't need the 3g).
 
Ipad Capacitive Stylus

Vlad

I bought the Boxwave stylus $15.00 Works well.

www.boxwave.com

You can write a lot more on the screen as the stylus allows for much smaller and more closely spaced letters. You should not rest you hand on the screen as you write as this renders the stylus inop.

Wastah
 
Wastah said:
Vlad

I bought the Boxwave stylus $15.00 Works well.

www.boxwave.com

You can write a lot more on the screen as the stylus allows for much smaller and more closely spaced letters. You should not rest you hand on the screen as you write as this renders the stylus inop.

Wastah
Click to expand...

Ordered thank you Sir.
 
Guys,
A Holux GPS like this Holux M-1000 work great with Foreflight. It requires a BT Stack GPS and your IPAD needs to be jailbroken.
I installed mine today and worked with no problem and GPS accuracy of 1M as oppose to 5M at best with the standard GPS that comes with the IPAD.

The Holux 1000 is about $40.

Hope this helps
 
I was evaluating the FlightGuide IEFB support a few weeks ago with a borrowed IPAD. It worked exceptionally well.

In chatting with FlightGuide, they are in the final stages of announcing a GPS receiver that integrates with their IEFB support. The GPS reciever will link to the IPAD via WiFi (which is more reliable than BlueTooth) and the reciever is also capable of shunting XM Weather via WiFi to the IEFB as well.

The GPS reciever allows one to use a WiFi only IPAD and have a fully functional *real* GPS feature. (versus A-GPS in the IPAD)
 
Don't mean to drift this thread, but I'd like to buy an IPAD but don't have AT&T. Do I need to spend the extra $$ and get the 3G version or just a cheaper unit and add the GPS antenna?
 
apkp777 said:
Don't mean to drift this thread, but I'd like to buy an IPAD but don't have AT&T. Do I need to spend the extra $$ and get the 3G version or just a cheaper unit and add the GPS antenna?
Click to expand...

Buy the cheaper unit and buy the GPS. The built-in GPS is not so great anyway. It works, but the external GPS is much better and WAAS. Also, if you were to buy the unit with the GPS built in and 3G, you don't have to subscribe to any services. The only reason they recommend the 3G iPad is because it has a built-in GPS. ForeFlight would not be very use without a GPS. Now, with the new external GPS, you don't need to spend the extra money on the 3G model UNLESS you're an AT&T customer AND you want the 3G service.
 
You don't have to be an existing AT&T customer to use the 3G system. You'll have a new data contract even if you are. It's a separate thing.

Except for one instance which I've reported here at VAF, I've had excellent performance from the on-board GPS in the air. No dongles needed with that version of the iPad.

I have had problems when using the wi-fi system (the 3G version has wi-fi, 3G and GPS, all independent of each other). So far I've only tried to use that at home and can't rule out my system, although it seems fine with other devices. I've found that the 3G system is more reliable. But that might be my own iPad, might be my early, not updated OS.
 
Disclaimer: I'm the lead developer and co-founder at Bad Elf, LLC.

Just got back from AOPA Summit and spent some time in the ForeFlight booth. It's great to see the excitement around the iPad in aviation. It's not perfect, but no platform is, and for the money I don't think it can be beat.

A few comments based on remarks earlier in the thread...

* Yes, only "Made for iPod" (MFi) certified devices can be linked to the iPad without jailbraking... right now the Bad Elf GPS and GNS (Bluetooth) devices are the only iPad-compatible devices on the market.

* There are pros and cons to the "dongle" versus Bluetooth form-factors, so it really depends on the pilot preference. Both support WAAS, 2.5-10m accuracy, good locks inside the cockpit, etc.

* The internal GPS on the iPad 3G has some serious limitations - once you're out of range of 3G cell towers, it can take minutes to reacquire a GPS lock, if it ever does. I heard this over and over again from pilots last week. Every corporate jet pilot I've met recently has told me the internal GPS on the iPad 3G does not work reliably enough at speed/altitude.

* I was able to get a solid GPS lock (iPad WiFi + Bad Elf GPS) on my Southwest flight from LAS to PHX last weekend - 565mph, 29K feet. Very cool, and something I've never seen with the internal GPS receiver on the iPad or iPhone.

* I saw the FlightGuide GPS-over-WiFi device at AOPA Summit. Neat idea, but it has a serious limitation -- it's not Apple authorized, so it will only work with their app.... going with a MFi-certified external GPS means it works with any and all apps, so you're not locked into a single app vendor, and can use it for non-aviation activities.

Happy to answer any other questions about GPS on the iPad, I've been living/breathing/flying this stuff for the last 12 months of my life :) And maybe if it goes well enough I'll finally be able to afford that RV-10 kit I've been drooling over for the last few years!

-Brett
 
The internal GPS on the iPad 3G has some serious limitations - once you're out of range of 3G cell towers, it can take minutes to reacquire a GPS lock, if it ever does. I heard this over and over again from pilots last week. Every corporate jet pilot I've met recently has told me the internal GPS on the iPad 3G does not work reliably enough at speed/altitude
Click to expand...

What role does 3G play in acquiring a GPS signal??????????????
 
N395V said:
What role does 3G play in acquiring a GPS signal??????????????
Click to expand...

Apple's 3G devices (iPhone, iPad) use Assisted-GPS to get a faster "lock" time, which is why you have an approximate location (80-150m) very quickly on these devices. It's based on 3G tower triangulation and/or georeferenced WiFi access point look-ups done against Apple's servers. What's interesting is that you get this small amount of 3G data usage for "free" on the iPad, even if you're not paying AT&T that month.

If you take the SIM out of the device, or use it in the boonies or at altitude, then you won't get any A-GPS data, and you'll see the true performance of the internal GPS receiver.

Don't get me wrong - when people ask which iPad to buy, I almost always recommend the 3G version. You can't beat the price and integration of GPS/3G, especially without a monthly contract. And the GPS features works great if you're on the ground with some nearby WiFi/3G coverage.

The iOS device will always pick the best GPS data available, so an external GPS receiver fills this performance gap regardless of which version of the iPad you're using.
 
What I am interested to see, is the affect of external GPS on the battery life of IPAD.

I have used my internal GPS on long flights (CA to GA) and had zero issue getting the GPS lock in a very short amount of time (seconds) and accuracy is normally in the range of 5m but it can be as inaccurate as 10m.

I have used an external Bluetooth GPS (Holux) with accuracy of 1m and ForeFlight has no issues with this GPS. I have not done any test regarding battery life of the IPAD when it is in communication with Bluetooth Holux GPS.
 
Wow! Your GPS lock times are certainly not typical in the cockpit, from pireps I've gotten over the last few months. Did you have 3G connectivity at the time?

Jailbraking does open up the options for connecting to non-MFi Bluetooth receivers, no argument there. Just depends on how adventurous you are ;)

As for battery life, I've found that screen brightness has more of an effect on battery life than than using Bluetooth, internal GPS, or external GPS, so it's hard to come up with a definitive number. I've had my iPad WiFi running with ForeFlight and the Bad Elf GPS connected for 8+ hours. Don't remember the percentage drop, but there was still plenty of juice.
 
Happy to answer any other questions about GPS on the iPad, I've been living/breathing/flying this stuff for the last 12 months of my life And maybe if it goes well enough I'll finally be able to afford that RV-10 kit I've been drooling over for the last few years!

-Brett
Click to expand...

Brett-

Does Bad Elf have any plans to develop a blue tooth GPS?
 
Can't say just yet due to our license/NDA restrictions. But we should have some product announcements in the next 4-6 weeks. Stay tuned :)
 
brhackle said:
Wow! Your GPS lock times are certainly not typical in the cockpit, from pireps I've gotten over the last few months. Did you have 3G connectivity at the time?

Jailbraking does open up the options for connecting to non-MFi Bluetooth receivers, no argument there. Just depends on how adventurous you are ;)

As for battery life, I've found that screen brightness has more of an effect on battery life than than using Bluetooth, internal GPS, or external GPS, so it's hard to come up with a definitive number. I've had my iPad WiFi running with ForeFlight and the Bad Elf GPS connected for 8+ hours. Don't remember the percentage drop, but there was still plenty of juice.
Click to expand...

No 3G connectivity as I have never subscribed to the plan.

And yes, I was apprehensive about jail breaking it but very easy process in so far I have not seen any adverse affect. In fact my only reservation about buying IPAD was how restricted and limited it was.
Now, I am using MyWi 4.0 Tethering app and utilizing my IPHONE as a wireless device to connect to the internet. No reason to pay for another data plan when you already have one.

As for battery life, mine does not seem to last as long but I agree the brightness has much to do with the power consumption.
 
So the interesting thing about 3G on the iPad is that you actually get assisted GPS data even if you don't pay for the plan! That's also why you can "activate" your plan from the iPad anytime. Somebody (AT&T/Apple) is paying to keep your SIM active, hoping you'll sign up.

To replicate the issues I've heard from other pilots, you could remove your SIM (or enter airplane mode) and then move your location by > 50 miles or wait a few hours (so the assisted gps data will go stale). Rebooting the iPad might also flush the cached data. That's when the lock times can skyrocket.

Of course, it's working great for you so there's no reason to do any of this ;) Probably more of a concern for corporate jet pilots, those that fly in the backcountry, or pilots who don't have the 3G version.
 
semi-related question

Considering IPAD purchase,
* should I wait for generation 2
* should I get 3G
* the data plan for 3G shows $14.99 for 1/4 gig and $25 a month for 2 gig. That doesn't seem like much in the way of data usage allowed--is it sufficient and is there an unlimited plan??
 
Flybuddy2 said:
Considering IPAD purchase,
* should I wait for generation 2
* should I get 3G
* the data plan for 3G shows $14.99 for 1/4 gig and $25 a month for 2 gig. That doesn't seem like much in the way of data usage allowed--is it sufficient and is there an unlimited plan??
Click to expand...

I couldn't tell you about Gen2 as this is always the question, since after Gen2, Gen3 and others will be coming out and it is a game of ever chasing the next Gen.

I got the 3G mainly because I wanted the GPS option but now that you can use an external Bluetooth GPS, is not quite as necessary any more.
In regards to the data plan, again unless you are planning on downloading the maps, plates, etc over 3G which would take a much longer time, the 1/4 gig should be plenty. I am using my iphone data plan to down load weather and updates when I am not in the range of wireless device so no data plan is really necessary if you already have an iphone.
 
YMMV, but in my case, I bought the iPad for aviation use but rarely ever
take my laptop on trips any longer. My iPad was purchased before June
so the data plans available included the unlimited GBs for $30/mo.
In reviewing my data usage, it became apparant (in my case) that the
1/4 GB plan was more than enough. I would still buy the 3G version
even though the dongle and bluetooth GPS are available because my
iPad is used more often for non-aviation purposes.
 
* should I wait for generation 2
Click to expand...

With Apple... YES. Gen 2 is always just a bit better. A tweak here and there, more speed maybe, how about a camera, who knows what they are brewing up. But you can bet it will have some new must have bells and whistles. ( I am waiting )
 
I work with some folks who are Apple bigots (I mean that in a fond way). Their thoughts are that the Ipad 2011 (we think around Feb/Mar 2011) will have a few upgrades:

* camera
* new IOS (faster)
* SD or USB interface
* improved screen resolution (it is really good today)
* improved anti-reflective screen for outdoor usage

But, there is always the next generation, faster, better more powerful than version one.

Merry Christmas, ho ho ho, off to Apple I go to buy an Ipad :)
 
Well,
Today I got to try out the Bad Elf dongle GPS. We went from middle TN to northern Alabama to deliver my seat to have them covered. It was IFR with 400 ft. ceilings when we left. The Bad Elf took less than 2 minutes to lock in new coordinates and then worked flawlessly with SkyCharts Pro. Then I put it into my friends IPad and tried it out with his program. Can't remember the name just now. It worked great also. Neither of these programs are on the list of those that are guarenteed to work with the Bad Elf (such as Foreflight). I was impressed enough that I ordered another one for my friend (also owns my hanger where I rent space) for Xmas and told my son-in-law that he needs to buy one for his VFR flying. Very nice product. This is just what the IPad needed to really function and why I bought the IPad originally.
 
craigvince said:
Be aware that the BT receiver sold on Amazon, is shipped from the manufacturer in Germany at an additional cost of $60.00. You'll get it quickly, but that makes the GPS $160. I'd wait a couple weeks if you're thinking of buying this unit. The guys at the ForeFlight booth said they've had a lot of complaints this weekend about the $60 shipping and they are going to talk to the mfr in Germany this week to see about shipping them bulk so we can buy directly from ForeFlight.


By the way, does anyone have a 32g or 64g iPad wi/fi they want to sell? If you're thinking of upgrading to the 3G version, I'd like an older one. (I don't need the 3g).
Click to expand...

I just went on the Amazon link from the Foreflight blog and they quote a price of $99 with free shipping. Maybe they worked it out with the mfr to sell in bulk now. Looks like a great gadget.

Bill Near
 
GNS 5870 MFI

Take a look at this one. They have it on sporty's. I am about to buy an ipad but was wanting a better gps. This might work.
 
The GNS is $129.99 @ sporty's. Making it $30 cheapers than Amazon. Mine should be in tomorrow. I'll let you know how it works. I think it will be better than the dongle thing hanging off the bottom of the IPad.
 
The new iPad is supposed to be released in April and will have more inputs to include a USB port.


I am waiting!
 
I just traveled from Nashville to Denver to Ontario using my iPad and the Bad Elf GPS. Sitting by a window it worked really well in the SWA 737. Showed 38000 feet, 485kts. Locked on fairly fast and stayed on no problem. Didn't work too well from the middle seat of roll three. Itried both Foreflite and SkyCharts.
 
GNS 5870 BlueTooth GPS

I have some of the GNS 5870 BlueTooth GPS units on order, if anyone is interested. See my classifieds post.
 
Good to know.

JDanno said:
I just traveled from Nashville to Denver to Ontario using my iPad and the Bad Elf GPS. Sitting by a window it worked really well in the SWA 737. Showed 38000 feet, 485kts. Locked on fairly fast and stayed on no problem. Didn't work too well from the middle seat of roll three. Itried both Foreflite and SkyCharts.
Click to expand...

The embedded GPS in the iPad absolutely will not get a fix in an airliner under any circumstances, so this is very encouraging to hear.
 
craigvince said:
I have some of the GNS 5870 BlueTooth GPS units on order, if anyone is interested. See my classifieds post.
Click to expand...

Guys, this is what you need. It is a little bigger than a credit card. charged it up, and threw it up on the dash. It connects via bluetooth to the IPAD. I used sky charts pro. The little airplane followed me through three different sectionals on the Ipad flying from Alabama to South Carolina. Basically, I now have a backup GPS independant of anything else in the airplane.
Skychartspro does ALL of the charts, IFR-low, VFR, TAC, APP. How ever, the approach plates are not geo-referenced
 
Received the GNS in the mail from Sporty's today. Turned it on and connected the blue tooth on the Ipad to the GNS. Foreflight works great with this device. Quick SAT lock and track very well. A piece of velcro and I'll tuck this little GPS easily out of the way in the cockpit. It comes with a USB charging cable and a car adaptor. It auto shuts off without a BT connection after 15minutes saving battery life.
 
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