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Medical Oxygen tank refilling help/suggestions

M

moll780

Well Known Member
Ok I've purchased a used medical oxygen system and Im having a heck of a time locating someplace to get it filled. The D sized bottle is still well within the certification dates.
I've been to Airgas who said they cannot fill medical bottles and they told me to go to a medical supply store.
A couple of medical supply stores said they cannot fill bottles that don't "belong" to them and I needed to have a prescription.

So.. i dont have a strategy to get this bottle filled in the Austin TX area.

Any suggestions?
 
Can't help much for what's around Austin, but I ended up buying my own two-bottle cascading fill set-up. Cost me a bunch, but the convience factor is perfect.

BTW It was even a hassle buying the bottles...medical prescription stuff, normally only renting stuff, credit applications paperwork (meant for welding jobbers), blah, blah, blah. Finally after sitting down with the folks explaining the whole situation, they took my money and I had two filled oxygen bottles.

Best to you,

-Jim
 
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I have used welding shops all over the country to refill my bottle. Granted, it is not a medical bottle, but I have heard all the same comments, "it's an aviation bottle, it must be refilled with aviation O2", on and on. Get on the phone and start calling the independent shops and if they don't or can't refill, ask if they can recommend anyone in the area. When I am in the DFW area, McKinney airport, there is a welding supply shop just outside the airport that refills mine for $15, I leave a $20, the extra for the coffee fund. Call around, you will find one that will trans-fill your bottle. Last summer, during Oshkosh, I found a shop, on the first call, that filled mine while I waited. Dan
 
A lot of fliers just use cutting torch bottles for a cascade fill, it's all the same grade oxygen from the plant.
 
Prescription

I just went through this.
Get a prescription from your family doctor.
$15 -$20 bucks every fill for my E size canisters. Regulators can be found for $20 or less.
 
Fire Departments

Go to one of your local fire departments. Most have a cascading system they use to fill their bottles.

Go in (or catch one of the outside) and ask if they will refill it for you. They can always log one for "training." Offer a ride. That should get you O2 for life. Chances are somebody there is a pilot. Fire guys have to have the biggest trucks and biggest tales to one up their compadres.:)

Find a line guy and not someone who has a desk:eek:
 
RV7Guy said:
Go to one of your local fire departments. Most have a cascading system they use to fill their bottles.

Go in (or catch one of the outside) and ask if they will refill it for you. They can always log one for "training." Offer a ride. That should get you O2 for life. Chances are somebody there is a pilot. Fire guys have to have the biggest trucks and biggest tales to one up their compadres.:)

Find a line guy and not someone who has a desk:eek:
Click to expand...

Make sure you have them understand that you need 100% OXYGEN, NOT AIR! Firefighters use compressed air packs (normal air, only 21% oxygen) to provide good breathing air in a fire. Paramedics use 100% oxygen for medical use - they are not the same thing! Compressed air at altitude will do you absolutely no good, you need pure oxygen.
 
As a back up plan check with your AME, mine has offered to write a prescription for oxygen every year I see him.
 
AME

My AME suggested getting the prescription also. Said it would be fine, just don't overcompensate. I also invested in a $30 oximeter. 1/2 to 1 liter per minute was suggested.

Don't tell medical company that you will have these in your airplane either. They don't understand you will be adding maybe a pound or two of pressure at 13k feet on a tank rated for 3000lbs, filled to 2000klbs. They understand the airline rules only
 
Here in Florida, I get mine filled from a medical supplier without a Dr prescription. It was really inexpensive as compared it to the FBO pricing.

They had me sign a aviation declaration form, indicating it was for aviation. They have a special exemption.

Ask your medical supplier if they have the form.
 
Devils Advocate

Aviation Oxygen is guaranteed to have a very low moisture content. I doubt we have to worry about freezing moisture in our oxygen regulators at the levels we fly but it is the rule. If an oxygen system fails and causes an incident I bet NTSB or the insurance company would start tracing the source.
 
jdeas said:
Aviation Oxygen is guaranteed to have a very low moisture content. I doubt we have to worry about freezing moisture in our oxygen regulators at the levels we fly but it is the rule. If an oxygen system fails and causes an incident I bet NTSB or the insurance company would start tracing the source.
Click to expand...

From previous discussions on this all O2 is the same. Unless I am wrong
 
Dive shop

I've used two of them to fill and inspect my bottle with O2 (not air!) here in San Jose. No hassles, they know exactly what you want. Apparently many other pilots do the same.
 
Points

1) Regarding the fire departments, they are smart enough to understand using the green bottles to fill the green bottles and not compressed air.

2) My neighbor is an AME. I asked him about the differences between medical O2 and standard O2. He said it was mostly $$$. The medical O2 has a slightly higher moisture content. He said standard, non medical O2 is fine for our purposes. Medical O2 has the higher moisture content for prolonged use.

For our short use of O2, the standard stuff is fine. I've used it for years without issues.

3) Dive shops are a good source but are hard to find in some areas.

4) Keep this simple folks. Prescriptions, dive shops, medical houses, forget that. I'm tell'n ya, your best source is likely to be your likely Fire House.
 
RV7Guy said:
4) Keep this simple folks. Prescriptions, dive shops, medical houses, forget that. I'm tell'n ya, your best source is likely to be your likely Fire House.
Click to expand...


Definitely check with 'em, but don't be surprised if they have done away with their O2 cascade system. Increasing regulations and OSHA requirements have driven many of OUR local departments to buying an "exchange rack" service - they get a rack of full O2 bottles from a central O2 house, use them, then get a fresh rack when required. I used to use my own department's O2 cascade, but the medical side got nervous about not being able to meet all the detailed regulations, and did away with it.

Paul
 
Same or not

Ron Lee said:
From previous discussions on this all O2 is the same. Unless I am wrong
Click to expand...

Perhaps they are the same. Perhaps there is only an additional drier used when filling the tank. My point was the FAA regulation and being able to trace the source. Just like using AN bolts instead of those in the local hardware store.
 
med O2 versus welding O2

RV7Guy said:
2) My neighbor is an AME. I asked him about the differences between medical O2 and standard O2. He said it was mostly $$$. The medical O2 has a slightly higher moisture content. He said standard, non medical O2 is fine for our purposes. Medical O2 has the higher moisture content for prolonged use.
Click to expand...

Same source, same moisture content out of the bottle. Higher moisture content in the medical world would come from an inline bubbler. If higher moisture is important to you, the bubblers are easy to come by, though I don't know of any pilots that bother with it. All it consists of is a small plastic container that causes the incoming oxygen to bubble up through water- thereby picking up some moisture.

http://www.google.com/products/cata...bNTo_TMMWIsQLDm6Al&ved=0CHkQ8wIwDQ#ps-sellers
 
I have a large bottle at the hangar that my wife uses on her glass torch and I have the same big bottle at work on our Oxy/Acy torch. Then I have a really big portable bottle. With 1000# and an oximizer canula and a pulse oxyimeter I can go 8 hrs on 1000# that will get me out and back to nearly anywhere I go...

Further, most trips I only go high on the eastbound leg. So when my wife's hangar bottle gets down to 1000 I look at the one at work, if it is still high I trade them out, otherwise I just waste a few bucks and get it refilled. That is much cheaper than paying the lease on two bottles for a cascade system. I don't end up filling the big bottle more than twice a year between her use and mine...

One caveat of filling your own bottle is the hydro test date, 5 years goes by quickly, I am going to have to check mine because I bet it is out....

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
F1-EVO
 
I am still trying to determine of I get a medical ox BOTTLE, will I be able to use an aviation regulator, or will it be necessary t use a medical ox reglator? If medical, can two people use the medical regulatorat once?
 
DonFromTX said:
I am still trying to determine of I get a medical ox BOTTLE, will I be able to use an aviation regulator, or will it be necessary t use a medical ox reglator? If medical, can two people use the medical regulatorat once?
Click to expand...

With Oxysaver cannulas, a single pediatric regulator will supply two people. I built mine with Oxygen safe dry break connectors so that only the cannula attached flows O2. Everything you want to know is probably in this thread:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=28412&highlight=roll+oxygen+system
 
You have to use a medical regulator because the medical bottle takes a different fitting. Most medical regulators have one output. Some have two. On my regulator, I just tee-ed off the one fitting into two hoses.
 
DonFromTX said:
I am still trying to determine of I get a medical ox BOTTLE, will I be able to use an aviation regulator, or will it be necessary t use a medical ox reglator? If medical, can two people use the medical regulatorat once?
Click to expand...

Medical regulators and aviation regulators hook on the bottle in a different way. Aviation regulators look just like the connection on your Oxy/Acy torch. Medical regulators have a screw handle so bottles can be changed without a wrench.

With that said a medical regulator will work fine in an airplane... You would want a small compact that you can throttle down to a low flow rate. Oxyimizer canulas do not need much flow at lower altitudes.

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
F1 EVO
 
Thanks for the link, lots of information I needed. I have decided on either a Jumbo D or an E bottle, but am undecided on a regulator, is it important to have lots of calibration at patial LPM, and what should be the maximum rating (for two people)?
I have limited heart function, and will be using it down around the 7-8k levels.

.
Guy Prevost said:
With Oxysaver cannulas, a single pediatric regulator will supply two people. I built mine with Oxygen safe dry break connectors so that only the cannula attached flows O2. Everything you want to know is probably in this thread:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=28412&highlight=roll+oxygen+system
Click to expand...
 
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Don,
My AME told me 1/2 to 1 LPM for one person at altitudes over 10K.
Hopefully your AME could give you some advice if you have a unique situation.
One thing he did advise against was overcompensating if you determined your O2 level was low. Set at the prescribed levels in advance. I like my oximeter.
 
DonFromTX said:
Thanks for the link, lots of information I needed. I have decided on either a Jumbo D or an E bottle, but am undecided on a regulator, is it important to have lots of calibration at patial LPM, and what should be the maximum rating (for two people)?
I have limited heart function, and will be using it down around the 7-8k levels.

.
Click to expand...

I extrapolated this from an oxysaver consumption chart. Units are L/min/person
10000ft 12000ft 15000ft 18000ft
0.3l/m/p 0.4l/m/p 0.5l/m/p .6l/m/p

As you can see, you normally never need more than 1.2 liters per minute with two people on board. It takes a pediatric regulator to get values this low. I closely monitor my saturation levels with a fingertip pulse oximeter and usually round up.

Guy
 
Regulator recommendation?

Guy Prevost said:
I extrapolated this from an oxysaver consumption chart. Units are L/min/person
10000ft 12000ft 15000ft 18000ft
0.3l/m/p 0.4l/m/p 0.5l/m/p .6l/m/p

As you can see, you normally never need more than 1.2 liters per minute with two people on board. It takes a pediatric regulator to get values this low. I closely monitor my saturation levels with a fingertip pulse oximeter and usually round up.

Guy
Click to expand...

Guy,
A quick Internet search shows that most of the inexpensive pediatric regulators have limited low flow settings [ ie .03, .06, 1.2 & up] Any suggestions for a pediatric regulator? Are any available, at a reasonable price with more adjustment?
Thanks for the great tip regarding the pediatric regulator.
Charlie
 
This morning my doc gave me a prescription for oxygen use above 6k. I have a heart condition that makes me quite short of breath at altitude. I took it to a DME for filling, they decided to send it to Medicare for approval. Has anyone else got this type use approved by Medicare and if so what did they require?
 
I bought from amazon, ~$100 for superD tank and regulator

Regulator that does .5/1/2/-15 lpm, I'd guess they have pedi regulators but didn't look. .5lpm will last me 18 hours!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...2GGC_2?ie=UTF8&m=AQK11O1HS2GGC&n=&s=&v=glance

Super D tank ~550L iirc, very light, impressed.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...2GGC_3?ie=UTF8&m=AQK11O1HS2GGC&n=&s=&v=glance

Finally found a fill source, my local Fox Medical will fill for $15, need a script though which isn't too hard to come by.
 
This is interesting. I just purchased a Jumbo D bottle medical type and never thought I would have a problem refilling it. Since it will last for any round trip I intend to make, I can get by with a local filler probably. lDown here, an extra few bucks would get anything filled with Oxygen.
I noticed that a prescription would help, my doc has made a prescription for me to use when flying above 6000. Medicare and the DME provider are having a ball with that one now, I am trying for a medicare paid for tank and regulator, and probably free refills as well! With that in place, I could call a DME provider and have a full tank delivered to an airport even, easing the pain of resupply. Is anybody flying with medical oxy furnished by medical insurance?
 
bkthomps said:
this type of abuse to medical insurance is what drives higher premiums we all complain about
Click to expand...

Disagree, he has a medical condition that places him significantly more in need of O2 than the average pilot. If he NEEDs O2 at just 6000 feet, that's a significant medical condition.

My only issue is what will they charge him/medicare vs. the prices on amazon. That's the problem with the system.

2cents
 
Careful, folks. Don stated earlier in this thread that he's got a medical condition that requires the use of oxygen at lower altitudes. Certainly we don't want to discourage those with legitimate medical needs from flying or from obtaining the treatments they need in order to be able to fly.

Medicare vs private insurance premiums are a whole other topic; one which can't go too far without getting into a political debate which isn't allowed here.
 
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And I have NO control over what an insurance decides to pay for this old 240% combat disabled veteran. FYI from what I have found out, Medicare will RENT the equipment for some extended period, after they have paid for it multiple times, then it is mine, no further rental charges. I have no idea how they handle refills. I also have no idea if Medicare will even pay for it in this cicumstance. If they don't, I will give the VA route a try.
 
not having much luck finding someone to fill my e size medical oxygen tank. medical wont touch it without rx, matheson gas or praxair wont touch it either. I think the tank is too big for a firehouse cascade system anyway.
 
You are in the perfect area to use a dive shop.
Since they fill Nitrox they will usually have O2.
That is what I do. Usually 12 bucks.
 
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