Looking to Buy prebuilt RV

I have been looking quite a bit the last month for used RV's. I could actually make a 6,7,8 work for me. I am split between a taildragger and nose gear aircraft. I have a short list of 4 aircraft that do interest me at the moment. The biggest issue is pricing. I am not out to take the last dollar from someone but want to pay a fair price in case I need to sell it or find I don't use it as often as I hope.
Asking prices are all over the place. The 4 Aircraft I am looking at vary from 56K to 115k. All are IFR capable with full panels and IO360 with CS props. Many owners I have contacted seem to base pricing on what they have in the aircraft. A friend with a RV tells me this is not realistic in todays market. Some of these aircraft have been on the market for a long time.
Is there any reference to find what RV's are actually selling for? I have looked but can't locate one. I fully understand that model, engine and avionics can cause large swings in price. Build quality is the one variable that is hard to quantify. Friends have offered very different buying suggestions. The most knowledgeable one suggests that 65k should buy a great IFR RV6 in this market. He has helped sell several aircraft and says prices are down this summer as much as 30 percent from 3 years ago.
What is the forum opinion on pricing and any hints on where to get a concept of fair pricing would be appreciated.

Maybe we need a new area in the forum?

First thing I would do would be to start with how much it would cost you to build one. Pricing a kit is fairly easy. Pricing a new engine and prop are likewise similar. Factor in a "reasonable" amount for labor to build it, and the cost of the flight instruments and avionics. It gets tough from there, because extras can add up quick (leather vs cloth, glass versus steam), and on and on....

As you compare the potential purchase, you would want to modify the starting figure and subtract for hours on an engine, rebuild versus new, propeller, age of paint, avionics, and then the very subjective "quality".

In the end, a fair price is what reasonable parties (buyer and seller) agree on. After you have an idea of what the value is of the used equipment, etc. you can then evaluate what you are willing to pay for it. Just like buying a used car, some "have to sell", and some don't. Most sellers will decide early on what their bottom line is. You may come upon a bargain with a distress sale (lost job, lost medical, no cash flow).

As always, there is some emotion involved. I know what I have in my airplane. I want (hypothetically) to get a fair price for it based on what I have invested. However, what am I willing to give up in insurance and hangar rent for an unknown amount of time while I'm trying to get a fair price? This would apply whether I'm selling my RV or my Bonanza.

Last but not least, there is the supply and demand issue. That is probably on the buyer's side right now.

I probably haven't said anything you don't already know.


On another note, it would be very useful if this forum had some means to submit actual sale/purchase data. Is there a moderator out there willing to work on something like that?

Don

I'm looking on 6/7's as well. I've seen the same thing; sub 300h TT RV-7(A), IO 360, CSP, Garmin IFR equipped being advertised for between 65 and 120.

The ones with high prices seem to be advertised for very long. I assume it is because they simply do not sell.

I think some sellers are not willing to sell below cost and that’s why they keep advertising at 'to high' prices. Not many selling today get what they once invested in kits or used RV's.

Good for me as a buyer, on the other hand, since I probably lose as much when I sell my -4 it will be a 'null thing' for me personally.

Figure out what it cost

Most people that want to buy one do not take the time to figure out what the plane cost. I built my RV7A with a new Superior O-360 and a pretty nice panel with all new stuff, no paint yet. I have 400 hrs on it now.

I have $70,000 dollars invested in the plane as it sits. Another $7000 for paint maybe next year. So were talking $77,000 and it took me 6 years and over 2000 hrs to build it.

If you decide to build one yourself it is going to cost you about this. Add all the items up and you'll see why it cost so much. Some build them cheaper by not putting a new engine on and not having as nice of a panel and some have more money in there panel than I do in my plane.

You think I'd sell mine for $58,000, maybe 20 yrs. from now and with inflation I most likely be asking more.
There are plenty of 40 yr old Cessna's out there you can get for $58,000

In general, I think that you will pay the least for a RV-6(A)...all else being equal. This thread may offer additional advice

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=61828&highlight=buy

Thanks for the replies. I have found that RV's priced with the current market are moving pretty well. I think a lot of people are looking for a lower operating cost aircraft in this economy and the RV fits well into that niche.
Those that are priced according to the market a few years back are not moving. I am not looking for a cheap aircraft but I also don't want to purchase a 80,000 aircraft for 100,000 since more then likely there will come a time when I have to sell the aircraft. I did consider hiring someone to assist me in building a RV. I don't feel capable of doing on my own. (a man has to know his limitations) The cost however of hiring professional assistance and building and equipping a RV is much more then finding a great used aircraft in this market.
I have one strong candidate at the moment and a couple of other contenders. I am sure the right aircraft for me is out there. This forum has been a great experience for learning more about the RV's. Now if I can convince myself that a taildragger will work I might have a aircraft this month!!! My concern on the taildragger is that my new private pilot son is going to want to fly the aircraft. Thats part of the reason I am looking. Just not sure a RV6/7 would be the right choice for a brand new private pilot.
Does anyone have any comments on that if he gets proper instruction and is required to get quite a few hours in the aircraft before solo?

sailvi767 said:

I did consider hiring someone to assist me in building a RV. I don't feel capable of doing on my own. (a man has to know his limitations) The cost however of hiring professional assistance and building and equipping a RV is much more then finding a great used aircraft in this market.

Click to expand...

You don?t really need to hire professionals, just join EAA or get with other builders. This forum itself is also one of the most important assets a builder can have. You?re talking basic skills, and it won?t be those skills that makes a great plane, but your attitude in just taking your time and wanting to do things right. You know your limitations, but taking any Sport Air course and familiarizing yourself with the tools, will certainly boost your confidence. Their Sport Air book is super, and actually I recommend their book more than their course. It was way too rushed, and most didn?t get to finish their project.

Of course, you may not have much desire or patience to start a plane, and that?s understandable, but a quickbuild kit can put you in the air fairly quick. Just don?t let it be because you think you?re not capable. You may not be now, but it wouldn?t take long to change all of that if that is what you wanted.

I can certainly understand wanting to buy a pre-built RV too though, especially in today?s economy. It definitely is a buyer?s market. Deals all over the place at Barnstormers, although you're going to still find Van's aircraft holding up quite nicely. They truly do hold their value, and no one is going to take a beating on any of their plane that was built reasonbly well, which includes the vast majority of them. If you seen one a bit less priced than the others, chances are it's because of the high hours on engine. Other factors might be because it is not C/S, along with minimum instrumentation and radios.

A few hours of transition training....

sailvi767 said:

......Just not sure a RV6/7 would be the right choice for a brand new private pilot.
Does anyone have any comments on that if he gets proper instruction and is required to get quite a few hours in the aircraft before solo?

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....will have your son up to speed in no time. Young guys have a fast learning ability and the RV TD series are some of the most forgiving and easy-to-handle taildraggers there are. Go for it,

Best,

We built a 6 took ten years put a 200 with c/s.Then our daughter got her license in our 182,guess what she wanted to fly next.Found a good cfi and it started she is on this site as Chrispatch our plane is called milkmoney [had a dairy farm while we built the plane].She has done awesome I had tears in my eye when the plane flew first,but nothing like when she flys it.BTW I didn't have any TW time worried alot about that,read a article that said instead of spending 600 for the nose wheel take the money and learn to fly the tw instead, took the advice.Been a great plane and would do it again in a heart beat.Best of luck with you endeavor one thing about it be wise and you can't go wrong

sailvi767 said:

Now if I can convince myself that a taildragger will work I might have a aircraft this month!!! My concern on the taildragger is that my new private pilot son is going to want to fly the aircraft. Thats part of the reason I am looking. Just not sure a RV6/7 would be the right choice for a brand new private pilot.
Does anyone have any comments on that if he gets proper instruction and is required to get quite a few hours in the aircraft before solo?

Click to expand...

Remember that decades ago, young folks soloed taildraggers in short order, having never flown anything else! I had about 5 hours in the log book th first time I got to go up alone in a J-3 Cub. I wouldn't worry about tail dragger time - you do need to decide if he is ready to step up to the performance aspects of an RV - things happen a bit quicker, no matter on which end the little wheel resides. Not saying that new pilots can't handle them - the can and do, very well. I'm just pointing out that the tail/nose wheel decision is only part of your decision regarding a new pilot.

Paul

My recent experience

This past spring I went through the experience you are considering, so perhaps you can gain something from what I learned after selling my 7A QB kit in favor of buying a flying RV:
- I narrowed my selection to first to a 7/7A because I wanted the extra 25 lbs of cargo capacity over a 6/6A and my wife didn't want to look at the back of my head on long cross countries, so the 8/8A was out.
- Narrowed further to a 7 because they seemed to be less expensive, probably due to a smaller number of potential buyers, and the insurance was only $200/yr more. I liked the idea of getting TW experience. It did take about 5-6 hours ($500) more of transition training with Mike Seager compared to what the -A model would have been.
- Found an A&P/IA who came highly recommended from someone on VAF who did a very thorough inspection.
- In hindsight, there were probably a few things that should have caused me to reconsider buying the plane I bought, but now I'm committed, and it is still a blast to fly. I'm happy to share more details off-line if you want to PM me.

Buying experience

I would love to hear more about your buying experience as I too am in the market.

What a problem, shopping for an airplane!

My experience was perhaps less complicated. From the start, I wanted a -4, and preferably without bells and whistles. The criteria was first, a well built ship. A constant speed was preferred. 0-360's and 0-320's were considered, neither a prerequisite. When I got the green light, I called on numerous ads, all -4's. I then looked at a half dozen airplanes, requiring some traveling.

The last one I looked at, which was the furthest from home became the first choice.

These airplanes are way undervalued, especially the -4's. My airplane would most certainly cost more to build than I have invested.

Good luck!!

BP