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These Strange Flying Planes

N

nucleus

Well Known Member
I am getting transition training for my 6A, and I am struck by how different this plane flies than any other plane I have flown. I find it strange to have to push in shallow bank turns. I have never before flown a plane that wants to climb more in a bank than wings level!?! I really have to concentrate to not climb while maneuvering. I was over-ruddering pretty bad at first too, which I am told is pretty typical for a Cessna driver starting to fly RVs.

I am starting to get used to the speed more.

Anyone have any transition training tips for me?

Thanks,


Hans
 
nucleus said:
I am getting transition training for my 6A, and I am struck by how different this plane flies than any other plane I have flown. I find it strange to have to push in shallow bank turns. I have never before flown a plane that wants to climb more in a bank than wings level!?!
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I'm pretty sure it just feels that way because the back pressure required is so much less than anything else you have flown. There is still some additional back pressure required. Almost every time I let a first timer fly my airplane, they climb about 1,000 FPM in the turns.
I was over-ruddering pretty bad at first too, which I am told is pretty typical for a Cessna driver starting to fly RVs.
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Yep, that is normal too. Unless you are slow or doing aerobatics, pretty much no rudder works the best.
Anyone have any transition training tips for me?
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Keep practicing! Soon, all other airplanes will seem to fly strange.
 
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YEP!

I find it pretty incredible that "non-pilots" seem to do better with their first time in an RV than experienced pilots do.
 
n5lp said:
Keep practicing! Soon, all other airplanes will seem to fly strange.
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Yep, I ferried a friend's Skyhawk on a short hop about about 3 months ago. It was the first time I flown one since I finished my airplane. I taxied the 172 out, throttled up...and waited...and waited...and waited.... ;)

Still, I love all airplanes though. I rather be flying anything on a beautiful blue day than sitting in traffic sniffing the exhaust of the vehicle in front of me.
 
Hans, I second that comment that all the other planes will seem strange to you shortly. In fact, I'm not sure I could fly a Cessna or Piper any more... I have four times as much RV time as I do other types. If I did try to fly a spam can again, on the initial climb out, I'd probably shut down and land on the remaining runway thinking that there was something wrong.:confused:

Almost every single pilot I've given the stick to climbs, whether it is in a turn or straight flight.
 
Variety!!!!!!!!!

I'm about to go take my flight review in a Legend Cub.
Everything that flies is good!
 
AlexPeterson said:
Hans, I second that comment that all the other planes will seem strange to you shortly. In fact, I'm not sure I could fly a Cessna or Piper any more... I have four times as much RV time as I do other types. If I did try to fly a spam can again, on the initial climb out, I'd probably shut down and land on the remaining runway thinking that there was something wrong.:confused:

Almost every single pilot I've given the stick to climbs, whether it is in a turn or straight flight.
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I think you'd be surprised how well you'd do. I have 2000+ hours in my RV3 and for one hour every two years I fly a C172 for my BFR. All the flight instructors tell me I have superior stick and rudder skils. We'll leave out the ground stuff.: D
Tom
 
control inputs

Other than stating the obvious about the beautiful flying characteristics of all RV's... when I take someone flying in the yankee... which has about the same control inputs as an RV ( IE using only 2 fingers to fly the airplane), I tell them the same thing I tell all my helicopter students. If you think you need to input movement into the flight controls, divide what you think you should input by 4 and that should be about right... All the spam can drivers get in the chopper and manhandle the ever living you know what out of the bird.. or my yankee... double fisting and making large movements on the yoke... I tell my students to think it and it will happen. In the airplane and the helicopter... I tell them to apply pressure to the stick but not to move the stick... after they apply pressure to the stick, if they need more.. just move it super smooth and slow.
Best
Brian
 
C150

Mel,

You are right on. Any thing that flies is good. Shooter, my Super Cub is a slug compared to RVs but still fun. Carol has a C150 and gets me to ride with her, I love flying as a passenger, or as PIC....... Just don't ask me to fly a parachute, I draw the line there.
 
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too easy

Just getting started towards getting my certificate. I had flown one lesson years ago in a Cessna and went for a ride in a RV10 recently. When the pilot let me try the stick I was amazed at how easy the plane turned without changing altitude. I am considering buying an RV to train in and it may be the only plane I'll ever need. It seemed much easier than the first Cessna experience I had and the performance was awesome for a 300hp single engine!
 
Too Funny...

Thanks guys for all the responses, you made me laugh and feel better about the tendency to climb. I suppose that a plane that is ready to up real quick at any moment has a safety advantage in the mountains.

Hans
 
fingertips

There was a movie and TV program back in the 80's named "Fame". It was about life at the Julliard art school in NYC. The old violin professor admonished his young male students to treat the control stick like a violin bow not like their you-know-what.

Poetic license taken,
Steve
 
"Your plane is out of rig"

I took up a friend/flight instructor last Saturday for a local flight. I let him have the stick and after a minute or so, our conversation went something like this:

Him: Your plane is out of rig
Me: Not its not
Him: Look at the ball, its not centered
Me: Look at the VSI. You are climing at 500fpm (small digits in Dynon D-10A)
Him: Whoa:eek:
 
Jamie said:
Yep, I ferried a friend's Skyhawk on a short hop about about 3 months ago. It was the first time I flown one since I finished my airplane. I taxied the 172 out, throttled up...and waited...and waited...and waited.... ;)
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The same thing really scared me a few months back: Was about to do a few touch and goes as prep for my BFR in a Piper. Halfway down the strip I was thinking something like 'What is wrong? all values are in the 'green' but an airplane cannot struggle this much just to get up in the air'. Of course everything was normal, I just got spoiled by the RV performance... :)
 
So True

Mel said:
I find it pretty incredible that "non-pilots" seem to do better with their first time in an RV than experienced pilots do.
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This is so true. I flew a 16 yr old girl at a Young Eagles day. I thought my VSI and altimeter were broken she was so smooth. Turns were locked on. She desired to become a Navy fighter pilot like her dad. I'm not surprised.
 
My only time at RV controls

Hi, I had the pleasure of flying Roberta's plane with the new owner. He gave me the controls at about 100 ft for an hour. What I noticed being a first time RV driver was, Whoa this sucker is fast, climbs unbelievable and that the control inputs are just breath on em and it does what ever you want. I was of course right seat and using left hand, it seemed like to little input to move the plane. I kept thinking what would this plane be like in turbulence with your arm being moved around, would it be hard to be smooth in turbulence? One thing I didn't like was I had to hold my arm up unsupported, to the untrained eye the stick seemed to tall. Wouldn't this be tiring on a long X/C holding your arm up. I'd like to be able to rest my arm on something and just move my hand or fingers. What's it like from the left seat? I banked this plane over 90 degrees, 180 turns full turns with ease, very easy to control climb/sink no big divergences from alt. entered at turn initiation, it was like a sports car on rails super control and so much easier to fly than my spamcan, of course I didn't land it and any monkey can fly a plane once it's up. Gene
 
Most people fly with their arm resting on their thigh. Reduces sensitivity and fatigue. Unless you are doing acro or in the pattern, you don't need that much control.
 
Urban Legend in the Making?

When I got a ride in an RV-6 with Ken Scott in 1996 and did my transition training (one flight) with Mike Seager I anticipated a super responsive experience that would take me to the limits of my Piper and Cessna taught ability to control. It simply did not happen. When I made the first flight in my RV-6A it was the same thing - it did exactly what I told it to do in a very stable "like any other airplane" manner. The only areas where I had to deal with something that required special attention were IFR flight and keeping the nose gear off the ground in the landing rollout. After a year of flying IFR without it, I installed a Tru Trak Pictorial Pilot and Altrak for directional control and altitude hold respectively and IFR flight no longer requires special attention compared to any other airplane.

Bob Axsom
 
Be careful...

Or as they say... don't test drive a Porsche when you own a Chevy. :rolleyes:

I got some taildragger time in a Decathlon last year (wonderful little plane. Aileron spades... light stick... tandem seating... had a BLAST :D ) and then test flew the little RV-12 (also a nice, light-on-the-controls little bird). Unfortunately, all I have around here for rent is very worn out old 172's that look like h*ll and fly like trucks. The fun just isn't there... :(

These RV's are wonderful planes. Hope to get building once my life (and the economy?) stabilizes a bit.

DJ
 
You are right on. Any thing that flies is good. Shooter, my Super Cub is a slug compared to RVs but still fun. Carol has a C150 and gets me to ride with her, I love flying as a passenger, or as PIC....... Just don't ask me to fly a parachute, I draw the line there.
__________________

Jay, whats wrong with parachutes? If Im not the PIC, I would rather be on the outside with my parachute.
 
Bob Axsom said:
When I got a ride in an RV-6 with Ken Scott in 1996 and did my transition training (one flight) with Mike Seager I anticipated a super responsive experience that would take me to the limits of my Piper and Cessna taught ability to control. It simply did not happen. When I made the first flight in my RV-6A it was the same thing - it did exactly what I told it to do in a very stable "like any other airplane" manner. The only areas where I had to deal with something that required special attention were IFR flight and keeping the nose gear off the ground in the landing rollout. After a year of flying IFR without it, I installed a Tru Trak Pictorial Pilot and Altrak for directional control and altitude hold respectively and IFR flight no longer requires special attention compared to any other airplane.

Bob Axsom
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Bob, I waited to respond to this until I flew some more, but I can tell you unequivocally that in my plane, trimmed for level flight, at 0-30 degrees of bank I HAVE to push on the stick to maintain level flight.

Hans
 
nucleus said:
Bob, I waited to respond to this until I flew some more, but I can tell you unequivocally that in my plane, trimmed for level flight, at 0-30 degrees of bank I HAVE to push on the stick to maintain level flight.

Hans
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Hans,

Pushing in a turn to maintain level flight is usually indicative of an aft CG. Do you have a tool box in back and how heavy is it?

Either that or you put the left wing on the right side and the right wing on the left. ;)
 
nucleus said:
Bob, I waited to respond to this until I flew some more, but I can tell you unequivocally that in my plane, trimmed for level flight, at 0-30 degrees of bank I HAVE to push on the stick to maintain level flight.

Hans
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Something is wrong with the airplane then. If it was mine, I would be highly motivated to find out what it is.
 
There's a problem here.

nucleus said:
Bob, I waited to respond to this until I flew some more, but I can tell you unequivocally that in my plane, trimmed for level flight, at 0-30 degrees of bank I HAVE to push on the stick to maintain level flight.
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I would investigate this. You should NEVER have to push down elevator to maintain level flight when trimmed properly.
 
Thanks Mel

Mel,

Thanks for that clarification. Some times I wonder..... But, maybe i wasn't clear?

Flying Powered Parachutes maybe fun for some, but just not for me.

I like all things that fly. Seeds, weed seeds, Frisbees, Helicopters, Most all airplanes, paper ones too.

Thank God we have a choice. You can have a glass panel and I can have an oil pressure and an airspeed/ altemiter, and both of us will be legal. This is a great country!!

Thanks to all that make it great.

I flew the RV4 today!!! What a fun airplane!!!!!!!!!!! A dream come true. And I Still would rather eat worms than NOT have a RV,3,4,6,7,8,10,,,9? havent flown one of those,,,, Bill R?:)
 
Jaypratt said:
...I flew the RV4 today!!! What a fun airplane!!!!!!!!!!! A dream come true. And I Still would rather eat worms than NOT have a RV,3,4,6,7,8,10,,,9? havent flown one of those,,,, Bill R?:)
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Jay, no problem. You going to be at SnF?
 
Over the years many people have asked me which is the best airplane that I have flown. My standard answer is the one I am flying at the moment. As long as you are up in the sky flying any safe flying is a good thing.
 
It shouldn't do that

It may be a perception thing because of the way you fly or have flown for a long time. You sound like a careful and analytical person however and it would be a mistake to ignore your senses. In level flight the lift vector is straight up (sine of the angle is 1) and no lift is lost to the side (cosine of the angle is 0). In a 30 degree bank the lift vector is 60 degrees with respect to the horizon and the lift is reduced to 0.866 x lift in level flight everything else being equal and you should have to pull back slightly to maintain level flight. This is just me playing with logic and it may not fit your reallity at all. Does it react the same way when you turn in either direction? Do you have an altitude hold system in the airplane? How is the balance weight in your elevator? Is your trim tab doing something that it isn't supposed to be doing in a turn? As others have said, the reaction you are getting in a turn isn't normal in my opinion and it should be resolved carefully in your test program.

Bob Axsom

nucleus said:
Bob, I waited to respond to this until I flew some more, but I can tell you unequivocally that in my plane, trimmed for level flight, at 0-30 degrees of bank I HAVE to push on the stick to maintain level flight.

Hans
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