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canopy not locked for takeoff

G

gerrydwhite

I'm New Here
It was hot and I was being baked in the cockpit. I cracked the canopy (slider) open about 1 inch to help the hot air get out while taxiing to the end of the runway. On the takeoff roll at about 50 mph I looked up and saw I had not completely closed or locked the canopy so I aborted the takeoff. Just wondering what the consequences would have been it I had been in the air. I know someone must have done this and what was your experience?
 
Depends on the aircraft type. In my 9A the canopy would slide back about an inch and lock there. It wouldn't move forward or backward from that 1 inch open position.
 
I've wondered this myself. What happens in my -8A if I take off with the canopy unlatched?

How about with it open to the stop? Judging by the way it shakes during runup, I suspect it wouldn't be good.
 
jjhoneck said:
I've wondered this myself. What happens in my -8A if I take off with the canopy unlatched?

How about with it open to the stop? Judging by the way it shakes during runup, I suspect it wouldn't be good.
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-8 canopy will slide back a couple 1-2" and stay. Don't know how far you have to pull it back before it departs.

I've done it a couple of times in 14 years. Not advisable, but occasionally it happens. Since, I have begun using a quick release t-handle push button pin in the canopy rail at the first stop. Memory aid to lock the canopy and if it ever comes loose, it'll only slide 5-6 inches. Just my thing.
 
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Once I had my tip up canopy partially open and only realized it when I was airborne. It was virtually impossible for us to pull it down to lock it in the air so I slowed down and landed at the nearest airport. No damage was caused by this and since, I have a warning light that illuminates if the locking mechanism of the canopy is not fully engaged.
 
Rv6 slider canopy

I've done it once on my slider canopy on my Rv6 and on my slider on my 6a and it want move for nothing from were you leave it.. You can't shut it the wind locks it in place.. Even put it on autopilot and me and the passenger tried to push it forward and lock it ..couldn't get it to move. Guess that better than flying back and scaring the :&@- out of you.
 
Bavafa said:
Once I had my tip up canopy partially open and only realized it when I was airborne. It was virtually impossible for us to pull it down to lock it in the air so I slowed down and landed at the nearest airport. No damage was caused by this and since, I have a warning light that illuminates if the locking mechanism of the canopy is not fully engaged.
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I've done this once also. I was able to quickly pull back on the stick, entering into a 3-4 G climb. The same time I was able to pull down the canopy and lock it.
 
As part of my Phase 1, I took off with the tip-up canopy open.

On that test flight, I climbed to 3,500' and tried to close it. No joy. So, I slowed the plane down to 60 Kts, deployed the flaps, and was able to close it fairly easily.

One thing to note that I had not prepared for, my test cards were sucked out of the plane.
 
BoilermakerRV said:
I will need to figure out how to implement something like this on my 7A.
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It is rather easy, I used a limiting switch ( miniature snap action switch) attached to each locking mechanism of the canopy that gets switched when the canopy is in full lock position. The switches are ON normally and connected to the ground and will illuminate the light. Once all of them are in the closed position, the light is off. I am pretty sure I bought the switches from McMaster and here is a quick search for the type of switch.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#micro-switches/=snybph
 
I have to admit that it happened to me a few times (forgot to lock the canopy). It won't slide back so don't panic. After you level off, you may be able to close it. I have no problem closing mine. To open the canopy the back has to slide up the rail a few inches before it slide back and slightly downward. There is high pressure at the back side of the canopy to hold it down. That high pressure also pushes rain in.
 
N941WR said:
As part of my Phase 1, I took off with the tip-up canopy open.

On that test flight, I climbed to 3,500' and tried to close it. No joy. So, I slowed the plane down to 60 Kts, deployed the flaps, and was able to close it fairly easily.

One thing to note that I had not prepared for, my test cards were sucked out of the plane.
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I wish I did the same during flight testing. I had an embarrassing moment almost two years ago. On a busy weekend at a crowded airport full of jets tower cleared me for takeoff at an intersection. Everything was suspiciously perfect until I realized why. Didn't lock my tip up and had little clue how it behaves in the air. Now imagine after takeoff one hand continuously holding the canopy handle... the rest is history :)
 
During flight testing I tried to open the canopy in flight with different airspeeds. One reason was to learn how to jettison the canopy in case I have to leave the plane with a chute. It was kind of easy to open it one or two inches, it is actually pushed forward by airloads.
There is a German built two seater (G115 + G120) side by side with a slider canopy and when opening the canopy lock there goes a large handle out into the slipstream to help slide it back and to help jettison the canopy.

It might be different on the RV-8 slider.
 
PLEASE..................

Be careful of things you try during flight testing. There ARE aircraft out there that WILL NOT FLY with the canopy open.

One example is the Zenair Zodiac with the forward tip-up. The canopy opens just enough to force the nose down making the aircraft unrecoverable. It may not be certain but I personally know of several that crashed because of this. And it was an aerodynamic problem, not a distraction.
The canopy on the RV-12 and the -14 are similar to the Zenair design.

I don't know if Van's has done any testing on this or not. Would be good to know.

Any comments Scott?
 
Mel said:
Be careful of things you try during flight testing. There ARE aircraft out there that WILL NOT FLY with the canopy open.

One example is the Zenair Zodiac with the forward tip-up. The canopy opens just enough to force the nose down making the aircraft unrecoverable. It may not be certain but I personally know of several that crashed because of this. And it was an aerodynamic problem, not a distraction.
The canopy on the RV-12 and the -14 are similar to the Zenair design.

I don't know if Van's has done any testing on this or not. Would be good to know.

Any comments Scott?
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Mel,

You make a great point!

I only added that test after reading others had accidently left their tip-up's unlatched and that it did not impact the flight characteristics significantly.

For those who are wondering, the tip-up just floats open about two or three inches.
 
There have been a few incidents of -12's taking off with the canopy unlatched. In some cases the pilots were sufficiently unnerved by the sudden commotion that they bent the aircraft when trying to put it down quickly. In others the pilots just flew a circuit and landed to fix the problem. I understand that the canopy floats up 6 inches or so, but the plane flies fine.
Vans have just released a canopy latch safety switch for the -12 to sound a warning if the pilot attempts to take off with the canopy not properly secured. I assume they will incorporate something similar into the -14.
 
N941WR said:
As part of my Phase 1, I took off with the tip-up canopy open.

On that test flight, I climbed to 3,500' and tried to close it. No joy. So, I slowed the plane down to 60 Kts, deployed the flaps, and was able to close it fairly easily.

One thing to note that I had not prepared for, my test cards were sucked out of the plane.
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So, Bill . . . was it open totally unlatched or held in position by the upper center latch? I have a tipper so I would like to make a comment in my POH about this for future reference. I have heard that tip up would lift up to some angle then be hard to open further or close.

Thanks in advance.
 
I did it, too.

Once while climbing out of KSHR (Sheridan, WY) over the Big Horns, I noticed it was a bit breezy in the cockpit. Turns out I forgot to latch the slider on my -6. It was open about an inch. I slid it forward and latched it. Wasn't a big deal. I was climbing at ~1000 FPM and didn't need to slow down to close it. It did irritate me that I missed something like that:mad: Don't think I've ever departed since without a double check of that and other check list items.
 
I did it once after being hurried on takeoff by a controller (I should have said no). It was about 1" open and I originally couldn't budge it forward or back.

What I learned was that my very tight slider canopy (which does not normally leak air at all) gave me a good draft from the back even after I was able to lock the canopy upon slowing down. It lasted until I landed 40 miles later. I was worried that the incident would leave me with a permanent draft, perhaps from a slightly deformed canopy, frame, or skirt, but all was well the next flight.

Lesson of the story: just relax, slow down sufficient to give it one easy try to close or, better yet, just land normally.
 
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I watched an RV-7 takeoff, oh, probably about a month ago and from my vantage point I could see the canopy hovering open 2-3 inches above closed. Appeared to takeoff normally, and flew away normally, probably would have landed normally too. Instead, at about 500' agl this pilot appeared to reef back on the stick so as to slow, or enter a quick climb, or almost enter a stall, to supposedly aid in closing the canopy. Actually I think I saw that maneuver twice before it disappeared in the distance. Didn't appear to be the most wise maneuver that close to the ground, but must of closed her up. Pilot must have been distracted by the B-17, B-25 and P-51 in the run up that took off just before.
 
BillL said:
So, Bill . . . was it open totally unlatched or held in position by the upper center latch? I have a tipper so I would like to make a comment in my POH about this for future reference. I have heard that tip up would lift up to some angle then be hard to open further or close.

Thanks in advance.
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Totally open. See post #16 on this thread.
 
Mel said:
CHECKLIST, CHECKLIST, CHECKLIST!
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Mel,

I have to agree with you; however, if someone takes off without latching the canopy, it is good to know the plane will fly and fly safely until they can land or climb high, slow down, and close it.

Messing around with an open door (or canopy) has caused fatal accidents.

Fly the plane first, everything else is secondary!
 
7A tipper flies fine, floats up about 4-6" in my case and stayed there but it is a bit unnerving. Done it twice in the last 10 years, the first time was early on in flight testing and I just kept hearing in the back of my head "fly the plane, fly the plane", went around the pattern and landed no problem.
 
Have had two take-offs with my tipper open ....VERY scary incidents. the canopy stayed in place until I was too high to put it safely back on the runway, then lifted up. Both times I was afraid to let go of it, not knowing how high it might go or if turbulence could cause destructive vibration. Both times I slowed down and circled back to land, all the while holding the canopy down with my R hand while operating stick, throttle, flaps, and radio with my left. NOT fun. In both cases something unusual at the airport distracted me from my pre-takeoff checklist. I can assure you, it will NOT happen again.
In no way was I able to exert enough force to close it while flying. I was not willing -at low altitude- to slow way down and get close to stall speed. I just kept saying (out loud!). "Fly the plane, fly the plane ..."
 
Happened to me last weekend

First time for me was last weekend in 7a tip up. I had the handle turned 180 so the short end of the latch was barely hiding on. My best friend was impressed with my handling of the EP, but not impressed with design that allows such a simple mistake. After we landed I asked if he would fly again and he said yes. My son is going to weld and extension on that handle.
 
Did it too

I did this a few months ago. Got distracted and left the slider unlocked. Noticed the air after take off. Plane did seem to fly any different. Could not close it in flight. Had to land. I used to own a Grumman Cheetah and with that plane you were allowed to keep the canopy open about 3 inches
 
I inserted a safety pin

in the 8A we had --- about six inches back from full closed --- I tried a couple of times, in flight, to slide the canopy back to the pin for ventilation -- the air stream would not allow it to go back - kept slamming it back closed.

R.
 
I forgot to latch my tip-up on the very first flight in my -6A after transition training (flight advisor made the first flight). Flew the pattern, landed, and shut it. I also need to rig up an audible indication of it not being latched.
 
Tip-Up

I have failed to latch my RV6 tip-up a couple of times. You know it immediately because of the rushing air and the louder engine sound. It raises 2-3 inches and bobs up and down. I keep my speed around 90mph, reach up and pull it down and turn the upper latch to secure it while I come around and land. I have not been able to lock it in flight with the side latch. It's on my checklist twice now!
 
I forgot the main canopy latch on takeoff one hot day... For some reason I just did the top latch, I must have been distracted during my post-runup checks. Didn't notice anything different until about half an hour into the flight when I realized the canopy wasn't sitting on the rail where it usually sat, but had flexed about 1/2" up. Of course, I was half-way across a large body of water at the time. :p

I slowed down and was able to get the canopy down and partially latched with a bit of G applied. I couldn't get the latch to completely lock, but it did hold the canopy down until I landed half an hour later (I was half-way between airports). Good to know that the top latch is enough to keep things together if needed.
 
Canopy surprise

I forgot to latch the slider canopy on my 9A and the first indication that something was
Wrong was whoosh at rotation
The slip stream had pushed the canopy forward and closed, tho the pins at the rear corners missed the blocks so the canopy was askew.

I climbed to pattern alt and assessed the situation, then returned to land
After shut down I carefully went over the canopy and mechanisms but found no damage
Like Ted said CHECKLIST CHECKLIST CHECKLIST !
Jim Frisbie
RV-9A
 
-8 Canopy Unlatched for Takeoff

About a year ago on a fairly warm and humid day I was holding short in my -8 ready to go with the canopy closed and latched. When it appeared that the controller trainee in my home field tower wasn't going to clear me too quickly for takeoff (and after holding for a few minutes) I unlatched the canopy and started to roll it back for some fresh air. Just then the instructor controller cleared me for takeoff. As I pushed in the power and started accelerating down the runway, my peripheral vision caught the canopy starting to roll back very rapidly. Instinctively, I reached up and grabbed the latch handle with my left hand. Of course, at that point, the only way I could abort the takeoff would be to let go of the handle so that I could get my hand back on the throttle! I opted to continue the takeoff and shoved the canopy back closed the best I could and was just barely able to "hook" the latch. Once safely in stabilized the climb, I shoved the canopy frame forward as much as possible and got the latch into the locked position but the rear part of the skirt wasn't quite pulled all the way down. I continued the flight uneventfully. I'm pretty sure that if I hadn't grabbed the canopy when it first moved, it would have slammed all the way open before there was enough air flow to hold it partially closed. Of course, by grabbing it, I was committed to the takeoff, which could have been a bad thing...but it was instinct that caused me to do so, not rational decision making...


Skylor
RV-8
 
Improved ventilation

There was a very controlled test of the RV-8 done a while ago on flying with the canopy partially open. Seems there was no adverse effects. If you do a search for "improved ventilation" you will find the thread.
 
We broke our pre takeoff checklist into two parts. The second section is canopy closed and locked and mixture rich, strobes on. Some call it a final items checklist. There are those who have and those who will with the canopy. Not a big deal as long as you fly the airplane first.

George
 
Tip Over Canopy

As common as taking off with the canopy unlatched seems to be it makes me wonder how there have not been more incidents with the side tipping canopies such as on the -4

In the couple cases I've heard of the canopy opens and departs. Has anyone heard of a "successful outcome" to an unlatched canopy?
 
This is not unheard of

While s l o w l y building my 7A, I have a Grumman AA5B Tiger, which has a sliding canopy similar in configuration to the RV sliders. As a FWIW, it is placarded for flight below 130 mph with the canopy back to a mark on the rail which is about 4" or so from the back edge of the windshield. I have opened it to this mark in flight for photography & such, then reclosed it in flight without difficulty. There was/is surprisingly little airflow into the cabin from the opening, there seems to be a laminar flow that continues across the gap. I have verified this by poking a finger out through the gap, it is like hitting an invisible wall.
 
Canopy in flight

When you rush you always forget something. With the canopy unlatched and open about an inch , I was able to close it and latch it in flight. Another stupid mistake was taking off with full flaps and a passenger in the back seat. I don't recommend it but the RV8A climbs faster but doesn't pick up much speed.

Dick
 
Targa style tipup canopy

I give lots of rides to friends and family in my 6a/tipup. I have no excuse for not latching that canopy since riders always point out that its not completely closed when we taxi out to the runway. But, I pulled it closed and set the rotating handle once without closing the latch. I didn't even notice the canopy was not latched until I saw the latch lever sticking out. The handle held the canopy down fine, and I didn't have any problem closing the latch in flight. I was probably doing about 100 knots. I have an aluminum "targa" strip to cover the cut in the canopy. I wonder if that targa strip reduced the noise and made the canopy easier to latch in flight.
 
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I reworked the release mechanism on my tilt-up so that the center armrest acts as the lever to lock the canopy. pretty hard to take off with it sticking up at 45?. plus the torque of locking is evenly distributed.
 
kjlpdx said:
I reworked the release mechanism on my tilt-up so that the center armrest acts as the lever to lock the canopy. pretty hard to take off with it sticking up at 45?. plus the torque of locking is evenly distributed.
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Do you have photos? That sounds like an excellent idea...
 
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