What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Real world short field numbers for the -10

pierre smith

pierre smith

Well Known Member
Hi guys,

As of yesterday, the wife and I and another couple are looking at a property that has a 1600' grass strip with an unobstructed approach over water (A wide river). From what I've experienced in our new-to-us -10, it should be manageable, lightly loaded and at 12' elevation (Just north of Beaufort, S.C.)

What kinda real-world short field numbers have you -10 drivers found?

Thanks,
Pierre
 
Pierre if you practice and are on the numbers you can easily do it. I can land every time in less than 1000' and my beast is heavy compared to all. Taking off for me is no problem at all but my plane is a little different.

I think I flew over the field you are talking about on Sunday morning on my way to Charleston. It is beautiful area.
 
Short Field Numbers for a RV-10

For the past 3 years I have flown in and out of 12TX with my RV-10. The heavest was probably 200 lbs under gross weight. 12TX has 80 foot trees at one end and power lines at the other end. Out of probably 50 landings at 12TX I have done maybe 3 go arounds because my approach speed ended up a little to high. Most of my landings have been with all power off on final and my roll out is less than 1200 feet. If I kept power on all the way to touchdown I suspect that my rollout would be about 25% less. Coming over the power lines when the wind is out of the south you are landing downhill and coming over the trees landing to the north it is slightly uphill. 12TX is 1235MSL.

If youj practice really short field landings on a long runway you should have no problems making it into your proposed field.
 
Thanks guys...

...I did one today and stopped in 1000' and could have been slower than 82MPH because there was a decent amount of float.

Thanks,
 
Impressive

Pierre, I am impressed. Not so much with the fine flying qualities of the -10.

I am impressed that a pilot of your credentials, a pilot who could probably fly circles around all the rest of us, asks his fellow aviators about their flying experience with the RV-10.

A lot of us egotistical pilots with far fewer flight hours would probably just go out and "give it a go."

Thanks for setting an example that says Safety involves getting all the pertinent information available.
 
I have experienced quite a wide variance on grass strips. If you are heavy and the grass is long, and especially if it is damp, it takes quite a bit more length. On the other hand, landing, if the grass is long you can stop in 500'.

Even on pavement, if you are at 2700lbs you will notice a lot longer TO than when you are alone with half fuel. I don't have proof, but it appears that the TO distance goes up logrithymically with weight.

Gary Specketer
 
Tight Squeeze

Pierre,

I have been operating my Rocket out of my 1500 foot strip here in the swamp for five years now with no problems. This summer my good friend VB bought a gorgeous RV-10 that I purchased and delivered to ID from here for him. I kept it here at my place for a week prior to heading west.
I took the liberty of "working" the 10 out here thoroughly before I turned it over to make sure I was good for mountain strips. I found some pretty impressive numbers for the big RV, this is what I used:
Swamp numbers: during it's visit it was rainy season, the first 500' was unusable, very gooey.

Landing: 94F light winds: Approach speed: 65 knots, full flaps, power 17"/2100 RPM, 20 foot obstacle. (identical to my Rocket numbers BTW) Flying a power-on approach, the RV10 with just 2 aboard is slightly nose heavy and runs out of aft trim but slight aft stick pressure will hold 60 KIAS no worries. I flew power-on until touchdown at 55 Knots, full stall landing very similar to a loaded 206. Moderate braking in the soft turf yielded stopping distances of less than 600' consistently.

Takeoff: 95F light winds, 2 persons 1/2 fuel: I used 10 degrees of flaps and a nose high "bush" takeoff attitude for prop care. The 10 will lift the nose almost immediately with full aft stick application upon full power. Holding a 10 degree attitude while rolling, liftoff occurred at 58-62 knots allowing a ground effect acceleration and climb out at 1600 fpm at 100 knots to clear the 50 ft trees. Measured distance 590 feet.

Idaho: We flew the RV-10 1800 miles to ID and the new owner asked if we could load it to gross and let him learn how to fly it worst case. Here are the numbers I collected.
@Gross weight, 92 degrees F, 3800' MSL

Takeoff distance: pavement 940 feet
Initial climb: 1200 fpm@ 100 Knots

Gross weight Landing: Approach speed 70 knots, winds favoring runway at 12 knots. 92F.
Power on approach yielded stronger sink rate with much less aft trim required, much easier flare and touchdown, although more noticeable sink rate. Landing and rollout with moderate braking: 650 feet.

After the trip my wife and I were both RV-10 converts, a wonderful machine with lots of room, comfort and utility. It rivals the Cessna 180 as my favorite 4-place airplane! BTW, I heard a rumor this year at Oshkosh that a missionary pilot friend of mine and a Van's guru are potentially developing a high wing "bush" RV-10. :) Hope all this helps your decision!

Smokey
HR2

PS: We just returned from a trip to Ecuador where we were lucky enough to spend a day in the Amazonian jungle flying with my MAF Pilot friend Chad. Here is a video of us landing at a 400 meter strip near the Peruvian border deep in the amazon jungle. We are in a loaded 206 with an approach similar to what you described at you place.

PSS: Safety tip: Load the RV-10 exactly like a 206, front seat pax first, then back seat pax and baggage, then yourself. Reverse this and she will stand on her tail!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRj-RC45fy0
STOL landing in Ecuador
 
Last edited:
Smoky,

Very impressive numbers with your 10 TO and Landings.

You can't leave us hangin, is this high wing 10 rumor a van's concept or someone else's?

So do you think the 10 could operate out of the field you landed in at Ecuador in the 206?

Anything you could do to the 10 (without high wing) to make it more bush capable?

cheers,

ajay


smokyray said:
Pierre,

I have been operating my Rocket out of my 1500 foot strip here in the swamp for five years now with no problems. This summer my good friend VB bought a gorgeous RV-10 that I purchased and delivered to ID from here for him. I kept it here at my place for a week prior to heading west.
I took the liberty of "working" the 10 out here thoroughly before I turned it over to make sure I was good for mountain strips. I found some pretty impressive numbers for the big RV, this is what I used:
Swamp numbers: during it's visit it was rainy season, the first 500' was unusable, very gooey.

Landing: 94F light winds: Approach speed: 65 knots, full flaps, power 17"/2100 RPM, 20 foot obstacle. (identical to my Rocket numbers BTW) Flying a power-on approach, the RV10 with just 2 aboard is slightly nose heavy and runs out of aft trim but slight aft stick pressure will hold 60 KIAS no worries. I flew power-on until touchdown at 55 Knots, full stall landing very similar to a loaded 206. Moderate braking in the soft turf yielded stopping distances of less than 600' consistently.

Takeoff: 95F light winds, 2 persons 1/2 fuel: I used 10 degrees of flaps and a nose high "bush" takeoff attitude for prop care. The 10 will lift the nose almost immediately with full aft stick application upon full power. Holding a 10 degree attitude while rolling, liftoff occurred at 58-62 knots allowing a ground effect acceleration and climb out at 1600 fpm at 100 knots to clear the 50 ft trees. Measured distance 590 feet.

Idaho: We flew the RV-10 1800 miles to ID and the new owner asked if we could load it to gross and let him learn how to fly it worst case. Here are the numbers I collected.
@Gross weight, 92 degrees F, 3800' MSL

Takeoff distance: pavement 940 feet
Initial climb: 1200 fpm@ 100 Knots

Gross weight Landing: Approach speed 70 knots, winds favoring runway at 12 knots. 92F.
Power on approach yielded stronger sink rate with much less aft trim required, much easier flare and touchdown, although more noticeable sink rate. Landing and rollout with moderate braking: 650 feet.

After the trip my wife and I were both RV-10 converts, a wonderful machine with lots of room, comfort and utility. It rivals the Cessna 180 as my favorite 4-place airplane! BTW, I heard a rumor this year at Oshkosh that a missionary pilot friend of mine and a Van's guru are potentially developing a high wing "bush" RV-10. :) Hope all this helps your decision!

Smokey
HR2

PS: We just returned from a trip to Ecuador where we were lucky enough to spend a day in the Amazonian jungle flying with my MAF Pilot friend Chad. Here is a video of us landing at a 400 meter strip near the Peruvian border deep in the amazon jungle. We are in a loaded 206 with an approach similar to what you described at you place.

PSS: Safety tip: Load the RV-10 exactly like a 206, front seat pax first, then back seat pax and baggage, then yourself. Reverse this and she will stand on her tail!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRj-RC45fy0
STOL landing in Ecuador
Click to expand...
 
Perfect 10

Hi AJ,

The "Bush 10" is more than a rumor, but it is definitely NOT a Van's aircraft project, more a "private" design by some very capable individuals and friends of mine. (this is also how the Kodiak was born) More to follow.

To answer your question: yes, the RV-10 could have landed and taken off there, very rough ground notwithstanding. MAF 206's have the Cirrus engine and prop STC (IO-550N and three blade BA) giving it what I consider equal power-to weight with the 10. However comma, the 206 has numerous gear mods to help it on rough ground. The 10 would need some landing gear mods to prevent damage. My ideas to improve the 10 are similar to what I did to my Rocket to operate off unimproved strips. On my HR2 I went to a larger size tire (380 X 150 X 5) and raised my stock Van's PR wheel pants to allow for rocks and increase ground clearance in the very soft turf. I didn't want to remove the pants as they add 8 knots and keep the aircraft clean and fewer rock dings. I retained the close (1/2") distance between the tire and stock Van's pant where in level flight attitude the rear of the pant is 4" above the ground at the tire. I noticed no speed loss on the HR2. The 10 main wheels are 600X6 and nose is 500X5. For most smooth grass strips this should be fine with the wheel pants slightly raised. For softer turf and larger rocks, I would go to 800X6's on the mains and a 380 X 150 X 5 nose which should still fit in the fork. The MAF 206's utilize 850X6 mains and 800X6 nose on a larger fork with Gar-Aero gravel guards. For most of us, a few extra layers of glass in the wheel pant bottom becomes a nice gravel guard. Try to retain the stock pants, hollowed out larger and raised. (Maybe someone has already done this in the 10 world?)
I would apply MHWH tape to the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer (helicopter blade tape) for Rock dings and the nose wheel gear leg fairing.

Otherwise, it's a great airplane as is for most lower-48 operations and rivals all the new certified 4 place airplanes for a third of the cost. However comma, for the jungle and Alaska bush operations, a more serious bush plane is required. I'll keep you posted on the progress:) Personally, I love the RV-10, flies great off my 500 meter strip, hauling half a ton at 165 knots all day.

I wish I could afford a Rocket along with one!


Smokey
HR2


www.maf.org
 
Last edited:
Piere

What are you doing with such a long strip! :eek:

Ok being cheeky. Take off with full load......and tip tanks full etc (not saying how heavy ;) and my MTOW is set at 2900lbs) I would still get out of your strip and I reckon even at that weight, and you would not normally do it, but I would say flown accurtely you would get back into that strip OK too.

I can say I have tested its performance up to 3000lbs, and you notice the extra, but its not a problem.

A man of your skill and dexterity will be safe at 480m. Go try it for yourself on a longer strip and you will be surprised....... the secret is the speed, but you knew that already!

Our last experiment was at 2625lbs and we were airborne in 500-550 feet. the surface was hard though. Temp was around 80-85F.

Cheers!
 
Thanks Don..

rv7boy said:
Pierre, I am impressed. Not so much with the fine flying qualities of the -10.

I am impressed that a pilot of your credentials, a pilot who could probably fly circles around all the rest of us, asks his fellow aviators about their flying experience with the RV-10.

A lot of us egotistical pilots with far fewer flight hours would probably just go out and "give it a go."

Thanks for setting an example that says Safety involves getting all the pertinent information available.
Click to expand...

....but I considered myself a "newbie" in the -10. I essentially checked myself out in it, since I only had 1 landing when I dropped the ferry pilot off to catch the airline. I then proceeded to explore all of the -10's characteristics, just as I did my transition training students, and getting quite a few landings before taking my wife for a spin.

Ego's need to be on the shelf at times like this and I'm ever so slowly becoming one of those "Old, not bold" pilots.

Thanks,
 
Thanks Smoky..

...and others....great advice!

FWIW, I let a buddy fly her left seat yesterday, with three of us aboard. He'd never been in a -10 but has lots of -4, -6, -7 and -9A time. We were all impressed by its acceleration and short run. He landed it like it was his 100th landing....what a great airplane. No surprises and I'm becoming more impressed with it every time she flies.

The best,
 
Lots of good information here on the 10, and short field operations that applies to all airplanes.

One thing I've noticed that may be pertinent is when operating with a direct cross wind with some gusto, some days either runway can have a slight head wind one moment and a tail wind the next. On landing, a tail wind of any size can make the situation very dicy.

Our 2200' strip is long by standards mentioned here but when clearing tall trees on one end, it is not all that long, probably down in the 1500' range. I got caught in a cross wind one day and did have a tail wind. I don't want to do that again as most every inch was used up by the time I could turn around at the end. Another factor is the brakes don't work as well on turf as hard surface.

Live and learn, right? No doubt about it, the slower the approach, the better. I am learning to use the Dynon AOA and that is a very useful tool.
 
Ecuador Strip

Talk about random - I'm pretty sure my wife and I flew into that Ecuador strip on our honeymoon a couple years ago (I wasn't flying, but at least I got to sit up front!). We were also in a 206... more impressive was the twin engine Islander loaded with tourists that landed behind us.

Josh
 
Last edited:
Short field ops with the 10

Pierre:

Smokey was right on with his numbers and speeds with the 10 in my experience. I will even go even a bit slower, but you need to carry power.
I land at a friends strip that is 1200 ft with trees at both ends and rarely
use more than half of it. We go into strips in Idaho that make that Ecuador
strip look tame, one way, blind approaches. I have 8:00x6 tires on the mains
and a 7:00x6 on the nose with a special fork that raises the nose further to give 14 in. of prop clearance. I think the 10 is a great short field airplane.
I had a C-205 and I will take the 10 anywhere I took it.

TJ
 
Easiest way to train for short field is on a long field.

Plan on touching down ON the numbers each time (typical field has the numbers 150-250' down the strip, someone smarter than me can quote the standards) from a steep descent (perhaps with a little side slip). That will give you the confidence you can land exactly where you plan on landing. Practice on a windless day, and again on a day with direct cross wind, so you know the "worst case" (that presumes you don't foolishly land WITH the wind some day).

Takeoffs are simple - half flaps, lift off at the correct airspeed, accelerate in ground effect to best angle climb speed and hold airspeed with pitch.

After a few dozen or so you will have no doubt about EXACTLY how much field you need for YOUR skill level.
 
10 bush plane

TJ,

I'd be very curious to hear what you did for the fork mod? Sounds like with your fork mod, the bigger tires, and maybe some tweeks to the pants you just might have a bush plan comparable to a C 180. I know its not ideal with the low wing, but TO, landing, cruise (better), and load carrying are comparable.

aj
10TJ said:
Pierre:

Smokey was right on with his numbers and speeds with the 10 in my experience. I will even go even a bit slower, but you need to carry power.
I land at a friends strip that is 1200 ft with trees at both ends and rarely
use more than half of it. We go into strips in Idaho that make that Ecuador
strip look tame, one way, blind approaches. I have 8:00x6 tires on the mains
and a 7:00x6 on the nose with a special fork that raises the nose further to give 14 in. of prop clearance. I think the 10 is a great short field airplane.
I had a C-205 and I will take the 10 anywhere I took it.

TJ
Click to expand...
 
Nose fork

Ajay

The nose fork was built by a fabricator here in the Northwest. The nose wheel is off a C-206 with a 1-1/2" tubular axle. The nose strut is reinforced where it joins the engine mount. The main wheels are C-206 with the double puck brakes. The plane also has vg's on the wings and also under the stabilizer, and has strakes on the stabilizer. Call me or e-mail me if you more details.

503 201 8623 [email protected]
 
Pants? A bush plane with pants?
John

ajay said:
TJ,

I'd be very curious to hear what you did for the fork mod? Sounds like with your fork mod, the bigger tires, and maybe some tweeks to the pants you just might have a bush plan comparable to a C 180. I know its not ideal with the low wing, but TO, landing, cruise (better), and load carrying are comparable.

aj
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top