What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

A Newbie, Aircraft Electronic Ignition

sc_acro2

Member
Hi, I am a newbie to the forum, aka. Thomas Shpakow, However not to aircraft building and performance mods. A new item that I have developed is an interface ignition set-up for Slick and Bendix Aircraft Mags. With great results, check it out at the link below. I?ll be in KOSH this year parked @ the IAC Head Quarters, Like to meet you and talk performance and more.

Sincerely,

Thomas S.
Power Play

www.g3ignition.com

ps. Hey Larry V. I'll get upto SD soon on the ignition stuff.
 
Looks really cool! I'm assuming the mags have to be timed really close so that the distributor is contacting the right part of the block when the EI discharges? How do the stock distributor's hold up to the hotter spark?

I assume that the major disadvantage to this system is the inability to advance the spark at will (or at the computers will). Seems like the most certify-able EI i've ever seen though.
 
What about spark plug gap?

One of the big advantages of electronic ignitions is that they will allow you to build up a bigger charge before jumping a large plug gap thereby giving a much hotter spark. If the system reverts back to mag, then the plug gap must remain small. Doesn't this take away a lot of the EI advantage?
 
Spark plug gap

Good topic Mel,
The larger the gap and or more cylinder pressure, the more KV is required to make the jump. When igniting the fuel, a multiple spark discharge is the ultimate. No need for the super large plug gap. The MSD ignition is capable of firing much larger spark plug gaps than a magneto is capable of firing. However this is not necessary. Typically, MSD ignitions recommend following the engine manufacturer?s specification for spark plugs. This dose not requires increasing the plug gap to enjoy the benefits of a more efficient ignition system. For example a Bendix 200 series 6 cylinder magneto is capable on the test stand with a o-scope hooked up, well over 40 KV @ 3400 prop rpm. I have flight-tested larger gaps with stock Slick and Bendix mags. And I could not see or feel a performance benefit. The old saying goes, if you put a 25-watt bulb in a 200-watt socket, will it be brighter? Most of the G3ignition set-ups have the standard aircraft mag harness and plugs and work excellent. Personally, I run the automotive NGK Iridium?s in my supercharge IO-540 @ a .026" plug gap. With S6LN-200 Bendix mags. Fired with the G3i module/ MSD 6a. Here is a good information link to MSD help; http://www.msdignition.com/1helpmechoose.htm

Thanks,
Thomas S.
 
Ignition timing, Hotter spark

Hi Stephen,
The magneto rotor and distributor block stay in the stock timing configuration and hold up as in a normal configuration. Slick mags do have a ?X? marking for there Lasar variable timing advance set-up. In the Lasar system, the rotor and block assembly are the same part numbers as there stock mag. This can be configured into the G3i system if required. As for the hotter spark, it is about the same as a good stock magneto, it?s the multiple spark discharge that does it. It can vary though depending on the application and plug gap. Internal coil temps were measured at the higher rpm and showed an increased by 7 to 15 degrees, static air flow, on the test stand. As far as having a disadvantage, not being able to advance the timing is not a big negative. Timing advance is only beneficial at altitude above 8000 ft @ a lean cruise setting as shown from other systems. The most difference is about 0 to 2% over this system depending on your engine management. MSD amplifier works so well, there is no need to advance the timing beyond the manufacturers spec. Another benefit is that there is no unknown chance of a runaway timing advance detonation gremlin to deal with or the kick back, knock the starter nose off troll either.

Thanks,
Thomas S.
 
wow

Hi Thomas,
I've looked at the data on the g3ignition website, and shared it with others. The flexibility, performance gains, simplicity, and extra-redundant safety features are amazing.
What's so surprising is there's no need to discard otherwise decent mags, when one may channel modern ignition through them at the flip of a switch. One more wire to the mag..Who'da thunkit? People have been asking me for years to find a way to build them boost retard systems that ran off the original equipment, and "hot up the mags while I'm at it". Looks a lot easier now.
TOO COOL DUDE.
Congrats on the launch of a beautiful product.
-Andy Richards
p.s. Some interested P51 racing folks are right over the hill from here. Expect a call from a tech guy and a Merlin engine builder.
 
Welcome!!!!

Hey Andy, welcome to VAF.

Good to have you aboard.

Are your "over the hill" guys from Eagles Nest??
 
If a wire breaks

Say,

It appears that if the p lead or coil trigger wire breaks, the ignition WILL NOT operate any longer in either mag or electronic mode, is that correct? It appears that the coil wire no longer has any internal connection, it is routed through the new box and back to the point through the p-lead connection. So, if iether the wire to the p-lead or the wire from the new connection breaks, that whole mag would go down.

Is this correct, and is there an aleternate which would allow the mag to function as a mag if the wires break?
 
How's this work, Broken wire?

Hi John,
Thanks for the scenarios, they are good, here’s some clarification.
However that is not correct, the mags are still independent of one another. Losing a p-lead and or primary coil lead would only possibly disable that mag. However, if you are triggering via magnetic crank trigger or aux contacts, the electronic portion will continue to fire the mag coil or both mag coils.
The p-lead can act as a trigger or a magnetic crank sensor pick-up can be used in place. Let’s use the example shown in my website " www.g3ignition.com " on Brandon’s ride. The left Slick magneto contact set (points) is the trigger source for the electronic amplifier. (ex.1) Let’s say that the p-lead from the left magneto just falls off in flight. Well this is the trigger source for the electronic ignition. The electronic amplifier will not have a signal to pip the coils. The electronic side of the system will not function. The right magneto will continue to fire as normal in mag mode. (ex.2) Right p-lead falls off in flight, the signal is still there from the left mag contacts, both mags will continue to fire in the electronic mode. Left mag will work in normal mag mode if called upon for back up There are 10 different ways that I suggest to hook the G3i system up depending your specific needs. The system includes new hardware and coil driver leads and p-leads from the G3i module to the mags so there is no chance of a poor or sloppy hook up connection and with less of a chance of a failure.

Thanks,
Thomas S.
 
Last edited:
Just wondering, if you lost the trigger, why wouldn't BOTH mags keep going in revert mode? The mags don't need power to run, they just need to be ungrounded...
 
Revert back to magnetos

Hi Stephen,
Yes, If the trigger source is a via magnetic crankshaft trigger, etc, both mags would revert back and function as normal, no power required. They would be ungrounded through the G3i module.
Have a great 4th,
Thomas S.
www.g3ignition.com
 
Looks similar to the function of the LASAR system without MAP and the spark advance. Why not add a spark advance like all the other EI systems and take on LASAR at a quarter the price?
 
Not sure how "new" this idea is. I have a MSD ignition system triggered by a modified Bendix mag like your system on my 0-235 RV-3. It uses an auto type coil to build power. It was added on in 1996. The builder was marketing and selling them as a kit. It does work good as far as I can tell.
 
Sounds interesting Larry, and I’m not surprised. I would like to here more about that type of ignition set up though. And since you have one let’s here the skinny…. I did do a divorced coil, modified mag set up a few years back, worked well…marketable, very ??? There are many ways to skin a cat and MSD has been around for over 25 years with all kinds of stranger applications. Refining it down to Simplicity, Reliability, and with easy installation interface is what G3ignition is all about.

Glad to here your set-up works well also.

Thomas S.
www.g3ignition.com
 
Hi Gary,
I have worked with a total programmable ECU's for ignition curve mapping, It's really cool to run the system from a laptop and watch the ignition curve in the lab and change the advance and retard curves with different files. That’s what neat about the G3i module; you can use just about any type of aftermarket Ignition amplifier/ ECU to run the system. The MSD ignition just seems to be the most users friendly without going technically overboard for most. I like your thinking though; I got some pretty trick fuel and ignition set-ups.

Thanks,
Thomas S.
www.g3ignition.com
 
Hi Righttime,

The cap noise filter is optional, if there is noise generated from the alternator or from the ignition and you don’t have a noise filter, I recommend this one. Easy to install and works great.

Thanks,
Thomas S.
www.g3ignition.com
 
Slick mag SB

Thomas,

Have you seen the recent SB on Slick mags that seems to be causing failures. Apparently its a problem with the newer products. Does your system offer any help with this problem?

cheers,

ajay
 
Hey Thomas, on your website there's a cap filter for sale, Do I need it with the Install?
On the old LSE systems that used the MSD box, it was necessary to put a very large electrolytic capacitor on the input voltage because the MSD drew very large current spikes that caused interference.
 
Hi Ajay,

I’ll see Joe L. from Unison in KOSH and see what this latest “SB” skinny is about, in-depth. Also this might good idea to include these repair items in my kit if you’re running Slick mags. If you need them you have them.
I haven’t seen an actual service bulletin number on Slick magneto problem. Are you inquiring about the carbon brush failure and contact set cam wear? These two problem issues stand-alone and a physical inspection is best. #1. A soft cam paddle is an easy replacement if you suspect you have a bad one. Ck you mag timing and see if it has change from the original timing set up (the advance will start to diminish as point gap becomes smaller). #2. Carbon brush failure. A physical inspection is the best on this one also. Most important is that the secondary coil tang is parallel with the case half, and the bush is not cocked in its guide and floats freely.
Thanks Ajay!
Keep me posted,

Thomas S.
www.g3ignition.com
 
Hi Ajay,

I?ll see Joe L. from Unison in KOSH and see what this latest ?SB? skinny is about, in-depth. Also this might good idea to include these repair items in my kit if you?re running Slick mags. If you need them you have them.

I haven?t seen an actual service bulletin number on Slick magneto problem.
Keep me posted.

Thomas S.
www.g3ignition.com

UNISON SERVICE BULLETIN No. SB3-08

LYCOMING SB No. 584
 
Back
Top