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VP-200 is dead

johngoodman

Well Known Member
My VP-200 is dead. I've been it touch with Chad, but it's obvious that I'm on my own. I pulled the display unit, and opened it up (I guess I voided the warranty when I did that). I suspected a particular Inverter Board might be the culprit, so I tried to get a new one - totally obsolete. I found an "equivalent" but it didn't work. The problem can only be in the mother board, or the display unit driver from the CU.

To make a long story short, I am now faced with an unpleasant situation - re-doing the entire electrical system and panel. Every switch on my panel - all three of them - were for the VP-200. A re-do will require switches for everything, new harnesses, and fuses (or circuit breakers). This doesn't even count the fact that my safety trim and wig-wag are gone.

So, I'm open to suggestions. Fire away!

John
 
You just did it! Hopefully someone here will offer one for sale.

I was able to buy a backup VP100.

Good luck,
 
My only suggestion if you want to keep the rewiring to a minimum, outside of picking up a used VP-200, is to look at a VP-X. To me it looks like they use the same type of connectors so you may only move your sockets over to a new connector shell.
 
Nice idea, but the VPx uses a different logic system - I have to buy the VPx new, and install switches. It's going to be a total panel redesign, unless I can find an old VP-200 somewhere. Thanks for the thoughts.
John
 
John,
Please keep us posted with whatever solution you end up going with. I too have a VP-200 and I'm acutely aware of it's obsolescence. I know it's not a matter of if but when that I too will be forced with the same issue you are facing now.

I was hoping the VP-X, so something similar, would be a legitimate solution when the time came. I guess I'm going to have to do some more research so that I can understand the differences in logic that makes it not viable for you. Not sure to what degree the problem will manifest with my architecture.
 
Has anybody asked Marc about the supplier of these parts when he was building these units? Or was he in the fab business too?
 
Vp200

How the problem look like???
Can you post a pictures of whait is based on ?( microcontrller memory drivers)
I am sure it is possible to find replacement that will work for any part
Or module if you planning to get rid of it i would take a look if it can be fixed
My vp200 works ok but one day it may fail and it is easyer to fix part then replace system

Pm if you can shipp it to check
 
Update from October post.... as of 11-21-15

I did get a private e-mail from Marc. I was surprised he replied, but Marc is a stand up guy. He was polite, but of no help. He said since it was "random" he had no ideas. Well, it really wasn't random... it occurred 3 times, all in IMC bumping around in the clouds. It started after 180 hours flying in primer, just after getting painted. I can only assume it is a static issue.

Before ripping it out, I decided to run 2 more grounds wire, making sure then were done perfectly. That was 30+ hours ago, and no more incidents. I have been avoiding IMC, fearing that all would go dark again. But, I have been through some clouds and so far all good. I did work out an emergency checklist of sorts so that I know exactly what to do if it happens again.

Jason at Aerotronics was recommending replacing it with a VPX. That might make technical sense, but this whole VP think has left a bad taste in my mouth. And, not knowing what the problem really is, I wonder if I am just trading the problem into a new $ystem.

Fingers crossed, but I can tell you it is no fun in the clouds wondering if things will go dark again.

Gordon
 
VP -200

I started to jump on that wagon but I'm glad I didn't there is no replacement for the cheap reset breakers that ACS sells its cheap to build and they never break .
 
Yes, and not funny, and certainly not helpful.

Not helpful? I'm serious as a heart attack. The only way I could be more helpful would be to post a link to the same gear at B&C.

The magic box is an orphan. The OP needs to rewire his airplane. The choices appear to be:

1. Re-wire with a VPx.
2. Re-wire with breakers.
3. Re-wire with fuses.
4. Cobble together an electronics repair.

Fuse blocks are simple, reliable, lightweight, and inexpensive...and you can probably buy an ATC fuse at any third world gas station until sometime around the turn of the next century.
 
Dan may be a little blunt in this case but I have to agree with him. Sometimes complexity is not needed to solve a problem and this is one of those cases. Don't get me wrong I love digital electronics. In fact I design it for a living but in my plane I'll have the fuse blocks. I'd have circuit breakers but the $$$ add up.

You mentioned you tried replacing the inverter. Was the screen going black? It sounds intermittent. You might inspect the solder connections on the processor and memory. Sometimes you can have a bad solder joint and it works most of the time. I've seen surface mount parts work without a pin being soldered down just because the pad on the board and the pin on the part are touching.
 
Not helpful? I'm serious as a heart attack. The only way I could be more helpful would be to post a link to the same gear at B&C.

The magic box is an orphan. The OP needs to rewire his airplane. The choices appear to be:

1. Re-wire with a VPx.
2. Re-wire with breakers.
3. Re-wire with fuses.
4. Cobble together an electronics repair.

Fuse blocks are simple, reliable, lightweight, and inexpensive...and you can probably buy an ATC fuse at any third world gas station until sometime around the turn of the next century.

No it is not helpful. The man has an issue he is trying to resolve without a major renovation of his aircraft. I am quite sure that he already knows about fuses.
 
Fuse blocks are simple, reliable, lightweight, and inexpensive...and you can probably buy an ATC fuse at any third world gas station until sometime around the turn of the next century.

Dan may be a little blunt in this case but I have to agree with him. Sometimes complexity is not needed to solve a problem and this is one of those cases. Don't get me wrong I love digital electronics. In fact I design it for a living but in my plane I'll have the fuse blocks.

You guys are focusing on only one of many many features of the VP-200. There is a reason why those of us with this device are loathe to give it up - you get a lot more than simple circuit protection:

1. Alarm trip points for under-voltage (with and without engine running)
2. Alternator - support for dual, internally or externally regulated (including B&C SD-8)
3. Annunciator light circuits (for master warning)
4. Auto Boost (turns on boost pump if fuel pressure drops)
5. Auto-pilot disconnect warning (senses when autopilot turns off)
6. Aux battery voltage display
7. Battery contactor failure alarm
8. Canopy lock/unlock using remote control (uses standard remote logic)
9. Canopy seal inflation/deflation system for Lancair (w/annunciator)
10. Checklists, display automatically on Mode change
11. Codes required to start engine and to enter setup menus (replaces need for key)
12. Co-pilot trim and flap switches disabled using soft keys
13. Electrical system and status graphical display, including real time current draw for overall system and per circuit
14. Endurance bus circuitry (backup power)
15. Endurance bus failure alarm
16. Engine and Flight timer
17. Engine data logging
18. Engine gauges configurable based on Mode
19. Engine gauges with visual and audio alerts for exceedences
20. Engine leaning functions
21. Engine RPM drop during mag check process displayed
22. Engine run-up bug on RPM gauge displayed at correct time
23. Flap actuation user-configurable (intermediate settings)
24. Flap and trim position display
25. Flap control with electronic motor braking
26. Flap over-speed warning (user configurable)
27. Flap switch disabled above specified airspeed
28. Fuel tank level display
29. Landing gear circuit can be disabled while on ground
30. Landing gear up audio & visual warning on landing
31. Landing gear up, down, and in-transition indicators
32. Landing light pulse (wig-wag) tied to aircraft speed
33. Listing of status (on, off, fault) of each electrical device
34. Mag switch with audio and visual alarms for incorrect position during start, takeoff, cruise, landing and shutdown
35. Manual switching of electrical devices
36. Master switch, with timed automatic shut off in Pre-Flight Mode and Post-Flight Mode
37. Mode determination (pre-flight, before start, start, after start, taxi, run-up, take off, cruise, maneuver, landing) with automatic and manual sequencing
38. Mode-based automatic device switching (on/off)
39. One +12v regulated power output circuit (3A capacity)
40. Over-current protection for each circuit (fully configurable)
41. Over-voltage alerts, protection and automatic shut-off of alternator(s)
42. Remote control with four user-configurable buttons (encrypted)
43. Solid-state short circuit protection
44. Starter switch based on soft key
45. Status indicators for GPS and engine data inputs
46. Switch inputs - user-configurable remote (for flap, trim switches)
47. Switches – 3 manual with LED status indication
48. Taxi and landing light soft start
49. Trim control with runaway trim protection & backup trim switches
50. Trim motor output +12v regulated
51. Trim motor variable speed to reduce trim sensitivity above specified speed
52. Under-voltage alarm
53. User definable annunciators triggered by discrete inputs (door, canopy, etc)
54. User re-settable circuit protection
55. User-activated Emergency processes and checklists
56. VMC and IMC user-configurable load-shedding
57. VMC/IMC switch controls devices on/off

I certainly don't use them all (landing gear up - what is that for? :D) but I sure use a lot of them.
 
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I believe it's to much faith being put into one box. We did a rewire of one that failed. When it did fail, it took out the radio and transponder with it. The re wire was the cheap part after getting the radio and transponder fixed. But, build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build. It's tame reasoning I used when I installed an AFS 3500 and back up altimeter, turn coordinator and airspeed indicator, when it failed inflight, I could happily fly home without it. Electronics fail, that's what they do.
 
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You guys are focusing on only one of many many features of the VP-200. There is a reason why those of us with this device are loathe to give it up - you get a lot more than simple circuit protection:

1. Alarm trip points for under-voltage (with and without engine running)
2. Alternator - support for dual, internally or externally regulated (including B&C SD-8)
3. Annunciator light circuits (for master warning)
4. Auto Boost (turns on boost pump if fuel pressure drops)
5. Auto-pilot disconnect warning (senses when autopilot turns off)
6. Aux battery voltage display
7. Battery contactor failure alarm
8. Canopy lock/unlock using remote control (uses standard remote logic)
9. Canopy seal inflation/deflation system for Lancair (w/annunciator)
10. Checklists, display automatically on Mode change
11. Codes required to start engine and to enter setup menus (replaces need for key)
12. Co-pilot trim and flap switches disabled using soft keys
13. Electrical system and status graphical display, including real time current draw for overall system and per circuit
14. Endurance bus circuitry (backup power)
15. Endurance bus failure alarm
16. Engine and Flight timer
17. Engine data logging
18. Engine gauges configurable based on Mode
19. Engine gauges with visual and audio alerts for exceedences
20. Engine leaning functions
21. Engine RPM drop during mag check process displayed
22. Engine run-up bug on RPM gauge displayed at correct time
23. Flap actuation user-configurable (intermediate settings)
24. Flap and trim position display
25. Flap control with electronic motor braking
26. Flap over-speed warning (user configurable)
27. Flap switch disabled above specified airspeed
28. Fuel tank level display
29. Landing gear circuit can be disabled while on ground
30. Landing gear up audio & visual warning on landing
31. Landing gear up, down, and in-transition indicators
32. Landing light pulse (wig-wag) tied to aircraft speed
33. Listing of status (on, off, fault) of each electrical device
34. Mag switch with audio and visual alarms for incorrect position during start, takeoff, cruise, landing and shutdown
35. Manual switching of electrical devices
36. Master switch, with timed automatic shut off in Pre-Flight Mode and Post-Flight Mode
37. Mode determination (pre-flight, before start, start, after start, taxi, run-up, take off, cruise, maneuver, landing) with automatic and manual sequencing
38. Mode-based automatic device switching (on/off)
39. One +12v regulated power output circuit (3A capacity)
40. Over-current protection for each circuit (fully configurable)
41. Over-voltage alerts, protection and automatic shut-off of alternator(s)
42. Remote control with four user-configurable buttons (encrypted)
43. Solid-state short circuit protection
44. Starter switch based on soft key
45. Status indicators for GPS and engine data inputs
46. Switch inputs - user-configurable remote (for flap, trim switches)
47. Switches ? 3 manual with LED status indication
48. Taxi and landing light soft start
49. Trim control with runaway trim protection & backup trim switches
50. Trim motor output +12v regulated
51. Trim motor variable speed to reduce trim sensitivity above specified speed
52. Under-voltage alarm
53. User definable annunciators triggered by discrete inputs (door, canopy, etc)
54. User re-settable circuit protection
55. User-activated Emergency processes and checklists
56. VMC and IMC user-configurable load-shedding
57. VMC/IMC switch controls devices on/off

I certainly don't use them all (landing gear up - what is that for? :D) but I sure use a lot of them.

I could not have said it better myself! I hate the thought of giving mine up when the inevitable happens. I won't have a problem re-wiring, but I will sure miss this system.
 
When it did fail, it took out the radio and transponder with it. The re wire was the cheap part after getting the radio and transponder fixed.

Just curious to find out more about this situation. What failed inside the VP-200 that caused a cascade failure of the radio and xponder?
 
Just curious to find out more about this situation. What failed inside the VP-200 that caused a cascade failure of the radio and xponder?

I have no idea, wasn't worth the time to try and figure it out. It was toasted.
 
I have no idea, wasn't worth the time to try and figure it out. It was toasted.

I was just curious what killed what since there should be nothing inside the VP-200 capable of damaging a radio or an xponder.
 
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What failed inside the VP-200 that caused a cascade failure of the radio and xponder?
Too high voltage or reversed polarity can damage avionics. The VP-200 can not do either, or can it? Modern radios even have built in protection against disconnected or shorted antennas.
 
Too high voltage or reversed polarity can damage avionics. The VP-200 can not do either, or can it? Modern radios even have built in protection against disconnected or shorted antennas.

Please be assured there is nothing in the VP-200 or any VP product that can damage external avionics. Over voltage and reverse polarity conditions are external to the VP (or any circuit breaker/fuse for that matter).
 
Folks, there seems to be a misconception that I lost some radios. As far as I can tell, the radios still work - I just can't turn them on. I can't make the VP-200 do anything. I can't even start the engine.
I'm working with a few individuals who might be able to find a repair, or possibly a replacement. I'll make posts as the situation develops, but I'm dead in the water, for now.

John
 
John,

No misconception here, just curious about the other post stating that his VP200 killed his xponder and radio.
 
Apples to Oranges -

My VP-200 is dead. I've been it touch with Chad, but it's obvious that I'm on my own. I pulled the display unit, and opened it up (I guess I voided the warranty when I did that). I suspected a particular Inverter Board might be the culprit, so I tried to get a new one - totally obsolete. I found an "equivalent" but it didn't work. The problem can only be in the mother board, or the display unit driver from the CU.

To make a long story short, I am now faced with an unpleasant situation - re-doing the entire electrical system and panel. Every switch on my panel - all three of them - were for the VP-200. A re-do will require switches for everything, new harnesses, and fuses (or circuit breakers). This doesn't even count the fact that my safety trim and wig-wag are gone.

So, I'm open to suggestions. Fire away!

John

Can't solve your immediate problem, no spare VP-200 in my hangar. And, already sold my VP-100.

Chad has not offered any significant marketing driven, or technical solutions to the VP-X transition - don't hold your breath.

I've installed a VP-X Sport in my project (90% done and 20% to go). The conversion was painful, installing toggle switches, configuration apps that don't transition well from online to PC versions. Additionally, the added cost of VP integration into the Dynon SkyView was more than expected.

After seeing subsequent posts on this thread, it is clear that the concept of the Vertical Panel electronic 'circuit management' is not well understood and more than one person suggesting switches/CB or switches/fuses has attempted in vain to argue apples to oranges without the foggiest understanding of the enabling technology that comes from the VP systems.

The solution I have previously suggested was that Ballard should buy-back spares from the BUILDERS to support the FLYERS who have less convenient options. The only alternate is for each builder individually to sell to a flyer and assist the early adopter who trusted Ballard/Astronics to carry-on the VP traditions set by Mark Aussman.

I had heard of one VP-200 builder who is converting but he COULDN'T find anybody interested at the time in acquiring his working unit. PM if still interested.

It's obvious that we will have to be more than individual victims to survive this ...
 
If somebody wants to send me a burned up VP200 unit and their manual I will see what I can do to get a clone produced and/or replacement parts made. There are a few folks in this field out there. :)
 
After seeing subsequent posts on this thread, it is clear that the concept of the Vertical Panel electronic 'circuit management' is not well understood and more than one person suggesting switches/CB or switches/fuses has attempted in vain to argue apples to oranges without the foggiest understanding of the enabling technology that comes from the VP systems.

I think a lot of the people suggesting breakers and fuses do understand what an integrated electronic package can do for you. I'm a big fan of integrated technology myself, when it's useful and helpful. But if parts aren't available, they aren't available, no matter how awesome the product; eventually once the supply of "used" units sells out, users will have to change out to another system architecture when their system fails and can't be repaired.

Breakers and/or fuses obviously don't have the advanced features that the VP products do, but they have one big advantage--they aren't going to suddenly be dropped by their vendor leaving users to scrounge among themselves for an ever-dwindling supply of working units. As DanH points out, you can buy fuses almost anywhere. Yes, "downgrading" is a pain and you lose a lot of features, but you won't run into this problem again.

The way VP has handled support for its older products has left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd considered a VP-X for a while, but that's now out of the picture. Now, if Dynon offered their own system like this, I'd strongly consider it; until then, I'm planning on fuses and Mr. Nuckolls's Z14.
 
This doesn't even count the fact that my safety trim and wig-wag are gone.

So, I'm open to suggestions. Fire away!

John

I think this situation is, perhaps, THE most undercovered story in homebuilding today. The rapid changing of technology is increasing the orphaning of systems.

It's a real choice problem for would be. You can either use an old reliable system with fewer bells and whistles, or you can just settle for the fact that you're probably going to spend thousands of dollars in forced upgrades as the thousands-of-dollars systems of products that were orphaned break, in exchange for the bells and whistles of the newer technology.

I don't have an opinion on what choice other people should make, but I think it's needs to be more clear in the homebuilding press about the reality of these choices.

Sometimes this gets lost in the "gee whiz" nature of the homebuilding press when it comes to presenting the details.

I was probably the first media person to do stories on VP-200, which was a fantastic product AND -- more over -- did things for which it STILL doesn't get credit. At the time, other than to ask the company owner about the possibility of orphaning the product at some point, it never occurred to me to analyze the factors of the rapidly changing nature of avionics because I didn't completely understand it at the time. What a great product it was, though!

It did so many things that I'm still pretty sure most people have no idea what a breakthrough it was.

All that said, you have to factor the possibility of companies going under/selling/orphaning/abandoning products into the initial price when making purchasing decisions, and it's pretty impossible to do that.
 
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Folks, there seems to be a misconception that I lost some radios. As far as I can tell, the radios still work - I just can't turn them on. I can't make the VP-200 do anything. I can't even start the engine.
I'm working with a few individuals who might be able to find a repair, or possibly a replacement. I'll make posts as the situation develops, but I'm dead in the water, for now.

John

Sent you a PM.
 
I stand amended ...

I think a lot of the people suggesting breakers and fuses do understand what an integrated electronic package can do for you. I'm a big fan of integrated technology myself, when it's useful and helpful. But if parts aren't available, they aren't available, no matter how awesome the product; eventually once the supply of "used" units sells out, users will have to change out to another system architecture when their system fails and can't be repaired.

Breakers and/or fuses obviously don't have the advanced features that the VP products do, but they have one big advantage--they aren't going to suddenly be dropped by their vendor leaving users to scrounge among themselves for an ever-dwindling supply of working units. As DanH points out, you can buy fuses almost anywhere. Yes, "downgrading" is a pain and you lose a lot of features, but you won't run into this problem again.

The way VP has handled support for its older products has left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd considered a VP-X for a while, but that's now out of the picture. Now, if Dynon offered their own system like this, I'd strongly consider it; until then, I'm planning on fuses and Mr. Nuckolls's Z14.

I'll amend my comment to, "there are many who don't understand" but that just goes with my position that one should 'never say never or always' or 'everybody or nobody'. There is seldom an absolute when it comes to human behavior. That said, 4 decades in the IT field has taught me that 'selling the concept' will generally sell the brand. Marketing success and technical success are NOT synonymous, and marketing trumps technical.

There are buyers in each of the three groups; 1) early adopters, 2) general buyers, and 3) tail-enders. Start-ups and emerging markets depend on the first group to build a market, and recover engineering expenses. While the market blossoms with general acceptance, and then the tail-enders are there to scarf up last year's model and look for bargains. The tail-enders can supply the funds to help engineer the next generation model. A company that abuses these various buyers can find themselves on the junk-heap of history. Ballard's treatment of the early adopters is now raising concerns and the experimental aircraft builders are a small market. News spreads and so far they are not getting out in front of this delicate opportunity.

There will be a portion of today's PC users who state, "My #2 pencil and yellow legal pad have never failed me. And I can go back to them anytime." Fat chance - :D

Here's praise for the early adopters, the experimenters who venture beyond the perimeter of the 'way we always do it' into the calculated risks of tomorrow for without them tomorrows are just more todays. [Yes, I installed LED landing and taxi lights, too.]
 
New LED landing/taxi light ..

My VP-200 is dead. I've been it touch with Chad, but it's obvious that I'm on my own. I pulled the display unit, and opened it up (I guess I voided the warranty when I did that). I suspected a particular Inverter Board might be the culprit, so I tried to get a new one - totally obsolete. I found an "equivalent" but it didn't work. The problem can only be in the mother board, or the display unit driver from the CU.

To make a long story short, I am now faced with an unpleasant situation - re-doing the entire electrical system and panel. Every switch on my panel - all three of them - were for the VP-200. A re-do will require switches for everything, new harnesses, and fuses (or circuit breakers). This doesn't even count the fact that my safety trim and wig-wag are gone.

So, I'm open to suggestions. Fire away!

John

It seems that the Wig-Wag has found another alternative - new LED landing and taxi lights (from the same vendor) may include a built-in wig-wag circuit. Likewise the LED Strobe lights will now have that feature to sync the strobes, including both wings and tail. It's nice to have that option in the VP but at least the concept is becoming integral to the lights themselves. And the lower current requirements will further assist in electrical panel planning. NOT to diminish your VP-200 problems but to illustrate that re-wiring is not just a matter of putting switches in to replace the ECB system.

Keep us posted please
 
After seeing subsequent posts on this thread, it is clear that the concept of the Vertical Panel electronic 'circuit management' is not well understood and more than one person suggesting switches/CB or switches/fuses has attempted in vain to argue apples to oranges without the foggiest understanding of the enabling technology that comes from the VP systems.

Would you explain it, please?

Marketing success and technical success are NOT synonymous, and marketing trumps technical.

It certainly appears so in this case.
 
Folks, there seems to be a misconception that I lost some radios. As far as I can tell, the radios still work - I just can't turn them on. I can't make the VP-200 do anything. I can't even start the engine.
I'm working with a few individuals who might be able to find a repair, or possibly a replacement.

Why would you want to? How can a failure mode like that possibly be acceptable?

"Well, I tried to re-start it but this here whiz-bang gizmo wouldn't let me" is a clear indicator that said gizmo never should be on an aircraft. Yes, starters fail, contactors fail, batteries fail, and wires fail, but you can buy (or kludge together) any of those things at any old shop down the street in any old town. One of the main selling ponts of VP was that their stuff had a failure mode that was 10,000 times less likely to occur or whatever. Sounds like in the end it caused way more failures than it prevented.
 
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Hmm... speak on. It is true. What are you reading into the statement?

Carb ice is a glaring, latent failure mode with a known cause that can occur in the heart of the normal operating envelope. It's been a significant factor in accidents and forced landings for decades--a 1949 Aviation Week study shows it as a factor in 34% of accidents and forced landings, and a 1975 NASA report (NASA CR-143835) estimates the number of carb-ice-involved accidents at 65-128 per year. A 2009 FAA report (FAA CE-09-35) shows about 21 accidents per year in the 1998-2007 period. As the number of light airplane "operations" in that period was similar to that in the 1975 study, the overall rate has declined; I'll discuss my theory for this decline shortly.

It is well-known that carb ice can be almost completely prevented through the adoption of a different fuel delivery method (throttle-body injector/pressure carb, or fuel injection). This was realized at least as early as the 1975 NASA study. It is true that developing, certifying, and installing these on new engines and airframes carries an upfront cost, but that upfront cost (at least with fuel injection) can be made up in reduced fuel burn. And that's not even mentioning the economic and human losses from carb-ice-related accidents. As noted in the NASA report:
One hundred and forty-four persons per year, on the average, are involved in carburetor icing accidents, about 4 of these accidents involve fatalities, about 7 per year involve serious injury, and almost all of these accidents involve substantial damage or destruction of the aircraft.
If we added up the costs of medical bills, hull losses, repairs, wrongful-death suits, etc. stemming from these accidents, I'll bet a round of beer that number would be substantially higher, even adjusting for inflation, than the cost of fitting those aircraft with another means of fuel delivery from day one. Incidentally, I suspect that the growing prevalence of fuel injection (and of engines that are otherwise not susceptible to carb ice) is the reason for the decline in carb ice accidents.

I realize that there isn't much we can do about the certified airplanes out in service. But we do ourselves a disservice when we just shrug off carb ice as ?part of flying? and suggest that anyone who wants to do something about it is trying to "dumb down" the airplane. Carb icing should have been relegated to the realm of antiques 40+ years ago, before the GA boom of the 70s.
 
Why would you want to? How can a failure mode like that possibly be acceptable?

"Well, I tried to re-start it but this here whiz-bang gizmo wouldn't let me" is a clear indicator that said gizmo never should be on an aircraft. Yes, starters fail, contactors fail, batteries fail, and wires fail, but you can buy (or kludge together) any of those things at any old shop down the street in any old town. One of the main selling ponts of VP was that their stuff had a failure mode that was 10,000 times less likely to occur or whatever. Sounds like in the end it caused way more failures than it prevented.

I guess I haven't made it clear about what's happening. When the VP-200 failed in flight, everything kept working. The total failure that I'm now describing is what is happening in the hangar, now. Once it was powered down, I lost everything, because it can't boot and power back up the circuits.
As far as starting, my engine power is independent of the VP-200, except for the starter button. If I had lost then engine after the failure, I wouldn't need a starter in flight - the prop is already turning.

John
 
John, this is a shot in the dark but your note that you tried an alternate and it still didn't work leads me to ask whether you've checked the ground wire and power wire? You've probably already checked the integrity of everything to and from the control box, including the integrity of the wire to the "big lug"?

I'm not sure the VP-200 has the same basic setup as the VP-50 (there are two ground wires on the VP-50) I'm using but it seems to me if the alternate didn't work, the problem isn't in the control box. Just browsing through the VP-200 installation guide, I don't see any grounding of the control box in the schematics, which is weird.

I don't mean to insult you by suggesting such a basic premise, but I'm just trying to noodle on what could possibly be wrong here (and leaving the philosophical debate to others; they don't help in trying to help out a fellow RVer with a problem, folks)

The VP-200 -- for those who don't know -- has two independent backup circuits, which is why your experience strikes me as even more weird.

Somewhere there's GOT to be a VP-200 control box sitting on a shelf somewhere that we can swap out to test this.
 
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Just browsing through the VP-200 installation guide, I don't see any grounding of the control box in the schematics, ......

FYI, there are 3 ground wires coming from the Control Unit - J4 - 6, J5 - 7, and J6 - 8. However there is no requirement to ground the case independently.
 
John, this is a shot in the dark but your note that you tried an alternate and it still didn't work leads me to ask whether you've checked the ground wire and power wire? You've probably already checked the integrity of everything to and from the control box, including the integrity of the wire to the "big lug"?

I'm not sure the VP-200 has the same basic setup as the VP-50 (there are two ground wires on the VP-50) I'm using but it seems to me if the alternate didn't work, the problem isn't in the control box. Just browsing through the VP-200 installation guide, I don't see any grounding of the control box in the schematics, which is weird.

I don't mean to insult you by suggesting such a basic premise, but I'm just trying to noodle on what could possibly be wrong here (and leaving the philosophical debate to others; they don't help in trying to help out a fellow RVer with a problem, folks)

The VP-200 -- for those who don't know -- has two independent backup circuits, which is why your experience strikes me as even more weird.

Somewhere there's GOT to be a VP-200 control box sitting on a shelf somewhere that we can swap out to test this.

No insult taken. In fact, I went out to the hangar today and double checked all the wiring. Everything is properly connected (although my back isn't after the "upside down" look under the panel). I tested all the sources of power, and it's getting power from all sources. The switch panel works normally - in fact, I have the heater fan and landing light on two of the three switches, and they work. Flaps work, trim works, but the co-pilot trim does not (it requires the DU to be installed). I've shipped the DU to someone who is willing to take a look.
The fob works, but it can't turn on the various lights - probably needs the DU for that.
I'm working on a source for a system "sitting on a shelf", but that's going to take a little time. I really suspect that the problem is in the DU, or the part of the CU that controls the DU. Time will tell. I sure hope that I can find a replacement unit. Flying with the VP-200 for four and a half years has really spoiled me!

John
 
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