What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Why we don't have a modern aircraft engine.

Hearts on Vakentine;s Day

I would be interested in that - just as soon as the battery tech allows me to fly for 4 hours and recharge in 15 minutes.

Its Valentine;s Day, so i would say this is the HEART of the problem. No love for electric around here.

If it is not better than existing, the only way new technology will come to be is through force through social/ political action.

Even if you solve the recharge problem, you still have the problem that the airplane's landing weight is the same as the takeoff weight. Therefore electric must have a weight ADVANTAGE over avgas-powered airplanes to just break even.
 
Beyond a few proof of concept designs, I suspect the way electric power plants will come to aviation in general will be hybrid designs. A diesel electric power plant burning jet-A seems very feasible.
 
Its Valentine;s Day, so i would say this is the HEART of the problem. No love for electric around here.
If it is not better than existing, the only way new technology will come to be is through force through social/ political action.
Even if you solve the recharge problem, you still have the problem that the airplane's landing weight is the same as the takeoff weight. Therefore electric must have a weight ADVANTAGE over avgas-powered airplanes to just break even.

Surely a depleted battery must be lighter than a fully charged one. Otherwise, where did all those electrons go?
 
Surely a depleted battery must be lighter than a fully charged one. Otherwise, where did all those electrons go?

They filled the holes. Or in the spirit of Valentine's Day, They got married to a Hole. (Holes are areas in a material absent an electron)

BUY YOUR WIFE some Flowers. It is cheaper than selling the plane.
 
I would be interested in that - just as soon as the battery tech allows me to fly for 4 hours and recharge in 15 minutes.

Standardized interchange battery packs. Land, taxi up to the FBO. They come over with a new battery on a cart, swap it sitting right there, spin up some electrons and go flying again.

We'd need some sort of standardized battery pack thats common to all eCessnas, ePipers, RV-e. Bigger planes maybe have 3 battery packs where a RV-12e might only have 1.

Not saying this is the way forward, just making the point that every problem has a solution.

I'm building an RV8, and planning a dino-juice burning Lycoming. Oil changes,fuel filters and all. Electrified GA is a long way off, but it has a lot of potential once technology catches up.

22 years ago, we couldn't even get pictures on cell phones (3g existed in 2001). Now I can stream videos of RVs.
 
...
22 years ago, we couldn't even get pictures on cell phones (3g existed in 2001). Now I can stream videos of RVs.

Interesting article on the world's fastest electric aircraft here in their March 2022 issue, free to read here:

https://www.flyer.co.uk

We're only one major breakthrough in battery technology away from this being a reality. Or about 10-20 years of iterative breakthroughs that have been happening for the last few years.
 
Just me

Interesting article on the world's fastest electric aircraft here in their March 2022 issue, free to read here:

https://www.flyer.co.uk

We're only one major breakthrough in battery technology away from this being a reality. Or about 10-20 years of iterative breakthroughs that have been happening for the last few years.

I wonder where the wall is thou. What is the fundamental limitation on electron storage?
 
Surely a depleted battery must be lighter than a fully charged one. Otherwise, where did all those electrons go?

Come on Man. . . . . it's chemistry, ya know, better living? :D:D or maybe it is why my laptop keeps getting heavier . . . .

But when it goes critical can it be jettisoned - - - like a warp core?

A dispassionate view of technology is required to ensure it is properly applied. The law of new stuff is that it must be better than the stuff it replaces and do more so it combines features and functionality of other stuff and makes the resulting system better, faster and cheaper. It truly makes life easier in some way. Else, it is not a good candidate for "replacement" of existing stuff. Otherwise, it is simply an alternative and market forces (economics) will drive it to a fringe.

After immersed in a research (engineering) department of applying new technologies for a few years, the light bulb came on, albeit slowly.
 
Last edited:
you may be on to something

Beyond a few proof of concept designs, I suspect the way electric power plants will come to aviation in general will be hybrid designs. A diesel electric power plant burning jet-A seems very feasible.

A diesel powered generator to charge your battery... as long as there is room for a pilot its a start.;)
 
Interesting article on the world's fastest electric aircraft here in their March 2022 issue, free to read here:

https://www.flyer.co.uk

We're only one major breakthrough in battery technology away from this being a reality. Or about 10-20 years of iterative breakthroughs that have been happening for the last few years.

A Jon Sharp NemesisNXT modified by Rolls-Royce with an battery electric powerplant with an 8 (yes eight) minute endurance at full power. They seem to hold two records: fastest electric airplane, least endurance electric plane. Or 345.4 mph x 8 min = 46.05 miles range. Yes, they need a MAJOR battery breakthrough, as do all electric airplanes.
 
Just me

Interesting article on the world's fastest electric aircraft here in their March 2022 issue, free to read here:

https://www.flyer.co.uk

We're only one major breakthrough in battery technology away from this being a reality. Or about 10-20 years of iterative breakthroughs that have been happening for the last few years.

Well, I have been working with Li-ion batteries for about 15 years, and there hasn't been any real breakthrough yet that drastically increases power to mass ratio. In fact, it seems it has gotten more expensive to make a battery. Since everybody wants a Li-ion battery, the world is really using up the supply of readily available and cheap minerals. It seems to me, iron ore and dead dinosaurs are still more prevalent than the fancy materials needed to make batteries.
 
We're only one major breakthrough in battery technology away from this being a reality.

In the movie "Back to the Future", Doc Brown comes back to Marty from the year 2015 with a coffee maker sized Mr Fusion device that runs on household trash.

2015. That was 7 years ago. You would think you could find a used one on eBay by now.

Forget better batteries. I want one of those in my plane, car, and house!
 
Why no UL Power discussion??

I'm considering the ULP 350is 130HP for my RV-12. Been researching it for weeks. Thought I'd "go to the mountain" (VAF) for advise and counsel. Can't find but a word! There's only one - that's ONE - entry in this seven pages of posts and absolutely no follow up or response...not even the usual "you gonna die!" response. What gives?
I'm not being a smart..s, just puzzled!
 
I'm considering the ULP 350is 130HP for my RV-12. Been researching it for weeks. Thought I'd "go to the mountain" (VAF) for advise and counsel. Can't find but a word! There's only one - that's ONE - entry in this seven pages of posts and absolutely no follow up or response...not even the usual "you gonna die!" response. What gives?
I'm not being a smart..s, just puzzled!

Too expensive.
 
The UL Power 520 series looks reasonable for RV 4, 6, 7, 8. Haven't seen much happen. Not sure why either.
 
I'd love to try the 520T in a 9A - but they won't even talk to me about it. I've tried.
 
Too expensive.

Have you priced a small Lycoming or a Rotax 915 lately?
Same horsepower, waaaay more weight for $$Lyc; ~more weight, more $ for RTX.
I'm only wondering why the ULP engines arent more widely discussed - just asking :confused:
 
Have you priced a small Lycoming or a Rotax 915 lately?
Same horsepower, waaaay more weight for $$Lyc; ~more weight, more $ for RTX.
I'm only wondering why the ULP engines arent more widely discussed - just asking :confused:

Probably because of the huge number of used Lycoming engines, and the great deal on brand new Lycoming direct from Vans. Comparing the price of a new lower price Lycoming from Vans to a brand new UL engine is a no brainer.

I realize there are many benefits from a modern engine but builders are not willing to pay a lot more for an exotic engine when a perfectly acceptable Lycoming engine will suffice.
 
Wellllll....I guess I'm the uninformed one! I've never looked at Vans pricing, because my RV-12 is my first Vans plane, and I went with an automotive conversion. I'm running 130 HP and lovin' it, but I'm attracted to the direct drive, air cooled ULP offerings.
Thanks for the clear response - it's helpful!
 
My UL engine is here.

Yes, it's in the box in my hangar and as soon as we get the landing gear mounted, it's going on the airplane.

It's a very modern, one lever, FADEC engine. What's not to like and $6,000 less than the Rotax.

Cheers,
 
Engines

Most VAF guys are 40 plus ….most will never reach 1/2 of TBO on a new Lycoming
Vans was spot on with designing the RVs around a proven design.
I get wanting new technology but Hp is a simple formula weather it’s 100Ll , Jet A , or Flux Capacitors….there’s no free lunch.
I’m installing a Rotax Turbo 914 on my new build …. Far from cheap but a proven design. I’m 60 …. Hope it reaches TBO before Me .
 
Back
Top