VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

-POSTING RULES
-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
Donate methods

Point your
camera app here
to donate fast.


Go Back   VAF Forums > Model Specific > RV-14
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 12-27-2020, 07:32 AM
RV6-KPTW RV6-KPTW is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Sebastian Fl X26
Posts: 120
Default

All good advice. What works well for one may not work for you. I did not like the swivel head. I felt I had better control with a fixed head on the gun.

Only thing to add here is practice kits are cheap. I did a bunch of the Vans practice kits until my quality was acceptable. It was educational to compare the (was it 6?) completed versions from start to finish.
__________________
Dennis Callaghan (X26)
- RV14 sn:140193 - first flight 12/19/2019
- 2000+ hours on my RV6! Sold (so sad...)
- donation 12/18/2020 * 2
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-27-2020, 08:02 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,742
Default Where does this "scrap" come from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy25101 View Post
just recently ordered an RV-14 empennage kit and am trying to come up with ways to make this an easier build than previous kits (none of which have I finished). One of my biggest problems previously was riveting. If I can pop it, squeeze it or back rivet it then it comes out quite well. But, if it has to be pounded, in can be an issue. My question to you is do you have any recommendations for any tools that may be helpful in the process. I see some folks using swivel mushroom sets, sets with rubber skirts, long sets that look like foot long rods, etc. What I have used in the past is a small tungsten bucking bar as well some other various shaped steel bars. Although I have had decent success with these the main issue is consistency. I’d love to hear any techniques, videos, tools, etc. that might help. As always, thanks so much for your time and input….
Pneumatic driver (bucking) was the most difficult for me to yield consistent results. You always hear "just use some scrap" . . . .so is that expensive original parts that got damaged?

Call Vans, I think they generate a lot of "scrap" aluminum - see if they have packages of this for purchase. I think they do. It will the the correct thicknesses. Then practice, practice, practice, with a known matrix of things you want to try. One thing I found that made a difference was the stiffness of the structure being riveted. Then you have air pressure at the gun, I like a regulator not a restrictor. Using rivet tape, checking each dimple to ensure the rivet is not choked. etc.

Then - use a off set and get good at that with universal heads.

It was really fun to learn all the tricks .

Funny story, I dropped in for the tour at Vans factory. They closed early so had to go back -but that is another story. Sterling gave me the cooks tour and we went out back and I saw the huge scrap bin. I think drooling was exhibited, but said wow what do you do with that? He said a salvage guy came to pick it up. My response (probably like every builder) was you should package a bundle and sell that to builders!! A lot more money than pennies a pound.
__________________
Bill

RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-27-2020, 08:18 AM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
Posts: 1,532
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL View Post
Pneumatic driver (bucking) was the most difficult for me to yield consistent results. You always hear "just use some scrap" . . . .so is that expensive original parts that got damaged?

Call Vans, I think they generate a lot of "scrap" aluminum - see if they have packages of this for purchase. I think they do. It will the the correct thicknesses. Then practice, practice, practice, with a known matrix of things you want to try. One thing I found that made a difference was the stiffness of the structure being riveted. Then you have air pressure at the gun, I like a regulator not a restrictor. Using rivet tape, checking each dimple to ensure the rivet is not choked. etc.

Then - use a off set and get good at that with universal heads.

It was really fun to learn all the tricks .

Funny story, I dropped in for the tour at Vans factory. They closed early so had to go back -but that is another story. Sterling gave me the cooks tour and we went out back and I saw the huge scrap bin. I think drooling was exhibited, but said wow what do you do with that? He said a salvage guy came to pick it up. My response (probably like every builder) was you should package a bundle and sell that to builders!! A lot more money than pennies a pound.
All builders should keep a photo of Van's scrap pile in their shops, in order to feel better about themselves!
__________________
Turner Billingsley

RV-14A built/sold N14VB
RV-12iS in progress as of October 2020
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-27-2020, 08:30 AM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mturnerb View Post
All builders should keep a photo of Van's scrap pile in their shops, in order to feel better about themselves!
Difference being that, Van's scrap is leftovers from making parts. Builder's scrap is generally from destroyed parts.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-27-2020, 08:56 AM
Taltruda Taltruda is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 575
Default

I would echo the advice to get a mentor or two and try their different techniques. What's the point of practicing the wrong thing and getting good at making a mess?
__________________
Tom
Las Vegas
RV-8 empenage finished 10-2020

Wings Started.. 11-2020
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-27-2020, 02:41 PM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
Posts: 1,532
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
Difference being that, Van's scrap is leftovers from making parts. Builder's scrap is generally from destroyed parts.
I knew someone would point that out. However I did once get some J-channel from them that was "backwards" (holes in curved part, not flat part), so they do make mistakes on rare occasions....
__________________
Turner Billingsley

RV-14A built/sold N14VB
RV-12iS in progress as of October 2020
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-27-2020, 05:45 PM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,742
Default

You know you are improving your skills when the scrap pile begins to get smaller and smaller as you make things from them, it?
__________________
Bill

RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-27-2020, 07:01 PM
FireMedic_2009 FireMedic_2009 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 175
Default Remember there is a pressure adjustment on the rivet gun

When I first had to use a rivet gun the person handed it to me with the pressure turned way too high. I didn’t know any better and used it for awhile screwing up a few times until someone else told about the pressure adjustment and what a difference and way more controllable
__________________
RV-6A IO-320 FP sold
RV-7 IO-370 Titan completed Jan 2021
Donated 2018 and continue annually
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-27-2020, 07:10 PM
wirejock's Avatar
wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 4,192
Default Drilled

Quote:
Originally Posted by mturnerb View Post
I knew someone would point that out. However I did once get some J-channel from them that was "backwards" (holes in curved part, not flat part), so they do make mistakes on rare occasions....
J-channel drilled? Whooda thunk? None of mine was cut or had holes!
__________________
Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 01/01/2021, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
HS SB, empennage, tanks, wings, fuse, working finishing kit
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-28-2020, 05:59 PM
Roy25101 Roy25101 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jekyll Island, GA
Posts: 65
Default

I want to say thanks for all the great advice. I even got an offer locally for some hands on training. Perhaps I'll post some successful riveting pictures before too long... Y'all are awesome!!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:50 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.