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  #11  
Old 12-25-2020, 08:06 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,742
Default And just when we stopped talking about alternators.

Welcome to VAF the finest group of tech heads, smart a$$es, and helpful new friends absolutely anywhere. Merry Christmas ALL.

OP Must Read- https://vansairforce.net/community/s...ighlight=B%26C
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Bill

RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
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  #12  
Old 12-25-2020, 08:27 AM
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mark@topogen.com mark@topogen.com is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Buena Vista
Posts: 11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL View Post
Welcome to VAF the finest group of tech heads, smart a$$es, and helpful new friends absolutely anywhere. Merry Christmas ALL.

OP Must Read- https://vansairforce.net/community/s...ighlight=B%26C
Thanks Bill! I'm going to have a ton of questions as I work through this and other issues. Merry Christmas to all from snowy Colorado!
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2002 Columbia 300 (sold)
2018 Columbia 400 (sold)
1997 SeaRey (sold it buyer sank it!)
1978 Cessna 182 (sold)
1998 Cessna 182 (traded up)
1947 Aeronca Chief (sold)
1955 PA-22 (current)
2008 RV-7A (current)
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  #13  
Old 12-25-2020, 08:33 AM
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mark@topogen.com mark@topogen.com is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Buena Vista
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TShort View Post
Mark-

Glad you made it safely. Which direction were you coming from? Over the Arkansas valley the terrain isn't bad, but getting there mostly means crossing a lot of rocks. I have yet to do it at night, and I'm not sure I'd be comfortable (at minimum, I am sure the engine would make all kinds of suspicious noises!)

Incidentally, are you in the blue hangars? I think my brother sent me a pic of your 7A in the open hangar Thursday morning while he was putting the snowmobiles back in the hangar. I'll stop in and say hi next time I am in town.

Thomas
Hi Thomas,
I own two blue box hangars and I'm normally around in my office in Hangar B (east most hangar...man door on east side). I was coming from Alamosa and had to go over Poncha pass. Following car lights on 285 at night was helpful! I kept thinking of the old adage: "better to be on the ground wishing I was in the air rather than vice versa". Stop by any time!
Mark
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2002 Columbia 300 (sold)
2018 Columbia 400 (sold)
1997 SeaRey (sold it buyer sank it!)
1978 Cessna 182 (sold)
1998 Cessna 182 (traded up)
1947 Aeronca Chief (sold)
1955 PA-22 (current)
2008 RV-7A (current)
Mark@topogen.com
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  #14  
Old 12-25-2020, 08:43 AM
KatanaPilot KatanaPilot is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grubbat View Post
So you had steam gauges and glass and the electrons went tangle uniform?
Imagine that. Your risk mitigation plan of having both steam and glass was a smart decision. You have now joined the club of those who have had electronic failure with steam backup. Glad you were able to write this report rather than us read about it from the NTSB.

The glass only crowd would be wise to take notice.
Seems to me a single G5 with it's built-in battery and GPS (and dissimilar hardware and software) is a more than capable, reliable and redundant backup to my G3X panel (that also has an IBBS for backup power). Hard to match that with any number of steam gauges.

I'm perfectly comfortable with a glass-only panel.
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Locust Grove, GA
DA20-A1 "Princess Amelia" - gone home to Amelia Island
RV-7A Phase 2 (Honored to be Van's "Miss July" 2021)
RV-10 under construction at Synergy Air South
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  #15  
Old 12-25-2020, 08:46 AM
JDA_BTR JDA_BTR is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 1,215
Default

A lot of us have a backup alternator on the vacuum pad too. I don't use my G5 but the battery is there as a failsafe. Some headsets will do bluetooth with the phone. I probably do want to get a set of aviation plugs for my handheld....
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  #16  
Old 12-25-2020, 08:49 AM
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mark@topogen.com mark@topogen.com is offline
 
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Location: Buena Vista
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvi767 View Post
Can you post what you find the problem to be? Did you have a backup battery for the GRT’s and if so did that fail also?
I'll let you know what I find.... BTW can you get battery backups for GRT screens? I have four of these little suckers but only need one battery for one screen. Here is my panel... powered on battery bus only... you can see my voltage is only 11.7v. Note that the GRT only gives a voltage readout. There is no readout for alternator output (perhaps not configured). This seems odd but does anybody have a suggestion as to why this is not being displayed? I would have immediately noticed an alternator defect (not charging) prior to my flight! Instead, I only saw a low voltage error which I attributed to a dead battery. Little knowledge is dangerous (duh).

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__________________
2002 Columbia 300 (sold)
2018 Columbia 400 (sold)
1997 SeaRey (sold it buyer sank it!)
1978 Cessna 182 (sold)
1998 Cessna 182 (traded up)
1947 Aeronca Chief (sold)
1955 PA-22 (current)
2008 RV-7A (current)
Mark@topogen.com
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  #17  
Old 12-25-2020, 09:06 AM
JDA_BTR JDA_BTR is offline
 
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Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 1,215
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Your ammeter shunt IMO should be installed on the alternator feed so that you can see the current supplied to the system by said alternator. If it is 0 or too low -> alternator failure. I have a second ammeter on the line from the master into the cabin so I can compare use to supply; handy in checking load currents on battery on the ground but not so useful most of the time.

TCW sells an avionics backup battery you can look into.

A backup alternator might be your wisest investment.

Any chance you didn't turn your alternator on? You probably start with it off and turn it on after start by checklist? Does that switch work? Your instrumentation doesn't seem to have any way to check any of that.
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Last edited by JDA_BTR : 12-25-2020 at 09:09 AM.
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  #18  
Old 12-25-2020, 09:40 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark@topogen.com View Post
Instead, I only saw a low voltage error which I attributed to a dead battery. Little knowledge is dangerous (duh).

Attachment 6175
a voltmeter is fine for determining alternator health. A charged battery will read 12.8 volts or around 13.0-13.2 immediately after engine shut down. Once the engine is running with a healthy alternator, your voltage should read 13.8-14.4 volts, even if your battery was discharged. If your voltage is below about 13.4, you can assume that your alternator is not providing any output. NEVER take off with voltage below 13.5! Add this to your checklist.
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Last edited by lr172 : 12-25-2020 at 09:44 AM.
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  #19  
Old 12-25-2020, 10:08 AM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 2,806
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Mark,

Welcome to the RV world - and glad you flight ended well.

Some thoughts:
- As has been pointing out, recommend you never “jump” your battery and then launch into the ether. If you drain you battery then charge it fully before flight. For that matter having a connection for a regulated power supply to run stuff on the ground is, in my opinion, required. Note - a regulated power supply, never run your panel with a battery charger connected.
- Any battery that has been depleted as you describe should be considered degraded, as in not airworthy. You may be able to breath some life into it, but battery capacity is now unknown. Replace the battery.
- There are many RV builders around that can install any ADS-B system. Here is example of why I caution people about using “professionals” to do avionics work. I’ve had to fix a few of these professional installs on other experimental. Add to that you now have no clue what they did (as far as wire runs and connections). I suggest the next time you want to do an avionics mod you find an RV builder and try doing it yourself.
- Let us know if this was and alternator issue or not. Loss of an alternator is the most probable risk, but not the one that presents an unmanageable outcome - assuming you launch with an all up battery.

Carl
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  #20  
Old 12-25-2020, 11:14 AM
mark@topogen.com's Avatar
mark@topogen.com mark@topogen.com is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Buena Vista
Posts: 11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich View Post
Mark,

Welcome to the RV world - and glad you flight ended well.

Some thoughts:
- As has been pointing out, recommend you never “jump” your battery and then launch into the ether. If you drain you battery then charge it fully before flight. For that matter having a connection for a regulated power supply to run stuff on the ground is, in my opinion, required. Note - a regulated power supply, never run your panel with a battery charger connected.
- Any battery that has been depleted as you describe should be considered degraded, as in not airworthy. You may be able to breath some life into it, but battery capacity is now unknown. Replace the battery.
- There are many RV builders around that can install any ADS-B system. Here is example of why I caution people about using “professionals” to do avionics work. I’ve had to fix a few of these professional installs on other experimental. Add to that you now have no clue what they did (as far as wire runs and connections). I suggest the next time you want to do an avionics mod you find an RV builder and try doing it yourself.
- Let us know if this was and alternator issue or not. Loss of an alternator is the most probable risk, but not the one that presents an unmanageable outcome - assuming you launch with an all up battery.

Carl
Thank you Carl... a new battery is first on my list of to do. Its small-ish AGM. Do folks use Lithiums? Just wondering.
__________________
2002 Columbia 300 (sold)
2018 Columbia 400 (sold)
1997 SeaRey (sold it buyer sank it!)
1978 Cessna 182 (sold)
1998 Cessna 182 (traded up)
1947 Aeronca Chief (sold)
1955 PA-22 (current)
2008 RV-7A (current)
Mark@topogen.com
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