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  #1  
Old 08-21-2015, 07:09 PM
hwaller hwaller is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: seaside park nj
Posts: 27
Default Question for Mel

Hi Mel,
Can a CFI give a Flight Review (BFR) to the owner/pilot of an experimental aircraft which is in phase I flight test?
This is probably a FSDO question but i'd like your take on it as a DAR.
Thanks,
Hugh
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  #2  
Old 08-21-2015, 07:45 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,783
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I am not Mel, so my post is only a personal test to see if he and I think the same....

Operating limitations limit occupants to those essential for the flight.
The purpose of the flight is Phase 1 testing.
A CFI riding along to evaluate the performance of the pilot has nothing to do with aircraft flight testing, so my answer would be no.
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Hubbard, Oregon
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop
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  #3  
Old 08-21-2015, 08:04 PM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
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Location: Dallas area
Posts: 11,385
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Scott is exactly right on this. Phase I is for testing of the aircraft, not the pilot.
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished. Discount for Veterans, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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  #4  
Old 08-22-2015, 06:57 AM
hwaller hwaller is offline
 
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Location: seaside park nj
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Default

Thanks to both.
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  #5  
Old 08-22-2015, 07:49 AM
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pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,922
Default Say, Mel

A friend of mine will fly his -10 for the first time soon.

I have over 300 hours in mine. What paperwork is necessary for me to also fly with him on the first flight?

Best,
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  #6  
Old 08-22-2015, 07:56 AM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
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Location: Dallas area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pierre smith View Post
A friend of mine will fly his -10 for the first time soon.
I have over 300 hours in mine. What paperwork is necessary for me to also fly with him on the first flight?
Best,
You need to read AC 90-116. It's 25 pages long and fairly complex. It lists all the qualifications and requirements.
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished. Discount for Veterans, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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  #7  
Old 08-22-2015, 09:19 AM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
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I've been hearing a lot recently about folks using the permissions of the APP to go along on first flights, and unfortunately, when I make a few inquiries, many of them have never looked at the new AC 90-116. Unless you go through the process outlined there, then "riding along" is not legal, nor in accordance with the Ops Lims - and if we don't play by the liberal rules we've been given, we are liable to have them taken away. I personally think that the APP is a great idea for a large portion of Phase 1 (I am not a fan for first flights, but we can all agree to disagree on that), and would hate to lose it.

For a great write-up on "doing it right", read Vic Syracuse's story in the July 2015 Kitplanes.

Paul
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RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
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  #8  
Old 08-22-2015, 09:58 AM
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dmaib dmaib is offline
 
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Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight View Post
I've been hearing a lot recently about folks using the permissions of the APP to go along on first flights, and unfortunately, when I make a few inquiries, many of them have never looked at the new AC 90-116. Unless you go through the process outlined there, then "riding along" is not legal, nor in accordance with the Ops Lims - and if we don't play by the liberal rules we've been given, we are liable to have them taken away. I personally think that the APP is a great idea for a large portion of Phase 1 (I am not a fan for first flights, but we can all agree to disagree on that), and would hate to lose it.

For a great write-up on "doing it right", read Vic Syracuse's story in the July 2015 Kitplanes.

Paul
Yep! See it done routinely. Most offenders don't have a clue what the AC requires.
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  #9  
Old 08-22-2015, 12:00 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pierre smith View Post
A friend of mine will fly his -10 for the first time soon.

I have over 300 hours in mine. What paperwork is necessary for me to also fly with him on the first flight?

Best,
I just did this Pierre and it's pretty simple (for gov't issues anyways). First, the Operating Limits need to state that the Builder will be using the APP program. Then you need to go through the APP AC. you'll need to confirm that you meet the criteria of Qualified Pilot (QP). There are a bunch of questions and you'll get a score. The BP will need to complete the powerplant tests and document that in the A/F logbook. The BP then needs to sign a statement that goes in the logbook. Same for the QP.

AC spells it all out, but I am not sure that it states the requirement for the Operating Limitations. The FAA guys were adamant that the Oper limitations have this. If he already has them issued, he can call the FSDO for a letter.

Good luck.

Larry
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  #10  
Old 08-22-2015, 12:38 PM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
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The big kicker in the 'extra pilot' qualification matrix is "Phase I Experience".

If the answer is NO then the -75 points will pretty much eliminate the other positive points.

This one ruled out a local RV-6A owner (non-builder) who is an ex-acro show pilot. Interestingly, if he did the first flight he would then qualify to be a second pilot on all other flights...
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