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Spinning an RV-6A

How is the spin recovery for an RV-6A?

Recovery is normal, with normal spin recovery techniques. BUT, it does not happen instantaneously. With the original rudder, it can easily take a turn and a half.
 
SB 2-6-1

PLEASE read Service Bulletin SB-2-6-1 which actually pertains to the RV-7(A), but has a lot of info about spins the -6 and the -7. Recreational
spins are not recommended in the RV-6.

https://www.vansaircraft.com/service-information-and-revisions/sb-2-6-1/

FYI, This is a excerpt of what was stated about spins in the RV-6 almost 20 years ago. I think the "discussion" section in the SB clarifies the reasoning for this position.

Early in the life of the RV-6 we recognized that its spin characteristics and recovery were not the same as the mild
spin qualities of the RV-3 and RV-4 which preceded it. The spin was fully developed following the second turn, the
rotation rate became rapid and recovery required around 1½ more turns. We recognized that most RV-6 pilots
would probably not have an extensive aerobatic background, and could be challenged by recovering from fully
developed spins. We chose to recommend that RV-6 pilots concentrate on learning spin recognition, immediate
recovery, and spin avoidance rather than encouraging them to explore the limits of spin recoverability. We also
recommended that the RV-6 not be used for recreational spins.
Section 15 of the RV-6 Construction Manual
details spin testing, spin recovery techniques, and spin limitation recommendations for pilots. Testing the RV-6
also revealed that stall characteristics were benign and spin resistance was good. In other words, a conscious
effort was needed to cause intentional spins, so accidental spins were deemed improbable during normal flight
operations, including sport aerobatics.* Of the 1400 plus RV-6 and RV-6A aircraft which have been completed
and flown, we are not aware of accidental spins resulting from aerobatic flight, nor are we aware of spin recovery
problems when operated within suggested limits

If you contact someone at [email protected] we can email you Section 15 from the RV-6 Construction Manual if you don't have access to it.

Fly safe out there and refer to the information published by Van's when it pertains to the safe operation of your aircraft.
 
Regarding the stock RV-6 (not with RV-7/8 rudder), everyone new to spins should understand that there's a difference between fully developed spins and the ones most do for fun or during precision acro sequences. Fully developed is over two turns and that is where pilots with low spin experience might get spooked or panicked by the relatively lengthy recovery. This is the only reason Van recommends against them in the RV-6, not because recovery is a problem or dangerous.

Prior to fully developed, recovery is quicker and fairly standard. Competition acro sequences for example don't see anything more than 1.5 turns. After initially learning the spin characteristics of your airplane, most people don't generally do high rotation number spins just for fun. Not much point. Most aerobatic airplanes don't exhibit such a major difference in recovery characteristics pre and post fully developed. The stock 6 is just a quirky one and the other RV models are not like this. And I've spun a 6 with a 7 rudder and it recovered fully developed spins within 1/4 turn.
 
PLEASE read Service Bulletin SB-2-6-1 which actually pertains to the RV-7(A), but has a lot of info about spins the -6 and the -7. Recreational
spins are not recommended in the RV-6.

https://www.vansaircraft.com/service-information-and-revisions/sb-2-6-1/

FYI, This is a excerpt of what was stated about spins in the RV-6 almost 20 years ago. I think the "discussion" section in the SB clarifies the reasoning for this position.



If you contact someone at [email protected] we can email you Section 15 from the RV-6 Construction Manual if you don't have access to it.

Fly safe out there and refer to the information published by Van's when it pertains to the safe operation of your aircraft.

Regarding the stock RV-6 (not with RV-7/8 rudder), everyone new to spins should understand that there's a difference between fully developed spins and the ones most do for fun or during precision acro sequences. Fully developed is over two turns and that is where pilots with low spin experience might get spooked or panicked by the relatively lengthy recovery. This is the only reason Van recommends against them in the RV-6, not because recovery is a problem or dangerous.

Prior to fully developed, recovery is quicker and fairly standard. Competition acro sequences for example don't see anything more than 1.5 turns. After initially learning the spin characteristics of your airplane, most people don't generally do high rotation number spins just for fun. Not much point. Most aerobatic airplanes don't exhibit such a major difference in recovery characteristics pre and post fully developed. The stock 6 is just a quirky one and the other RV models are not like this. And I've spun a 6 with a 7 rudder and it recovered fully developed spins within 1/4 turn.

The info in both of these posts is right on with one exception that I think deserves some clarification.

No RV-6 should have been built with an RV-7 rudder if built per Van's Aircraft recommendations....
The alternate (and slightly larger) rudder used on the RV-6 is actually the same rudder used on the RV-8. If used, it also required the installation of the RV-8 vertical stab as well. All of the late RV-6 emp. kits shipped in the couple years prior to the introduction of the RV-7 included the RV-8 vertical stab. and rudder. The RV-6A that I rebuilt and now own has this vertical stab and rudder installed.

The likely often cause of confusion is that the RV-7 also uses the RV-8 vertical stab., and the kit was initially released with the RV-8 rudder but that was shortly changed to a different design which I am not aware of ever being installed on an RV-6.
 
The likely often cause of confusion is that the RV-7 also uses the RV-8 vertical stab., and the kit was initially released with the RV-8 rudder but that was shortly changed to a different design which I am not aware of ever being installed on an RV-6.

Thanks - the above must be the confusion. It was about 15 yrs ago I did the Phase I acro maneuvers for a friend who finished a partially completed 6. It definitely had plenty of rudder authority and recovered fully developed spins in both directions within 1/4 turn, same as most aerobatic airplanes.
 
probably gonna be smoked by the Vans reps here… but here goes:
Is a -6 of the latter series, equipped with a -8 tail, then okeyd for recreational spins?
Along the same token, couldn’t the Vne be, as for the -8, 200 KTAS iso 182?

Thanks for your answers, shields are on ;)

PS
Whilst getting acquainted with the DHC-1 Chipmunk, we practiced 10 turn spin-flat-spins for a whole hour… still feel dizzy 😵*💫
Recovery easily took 2-3 turns with the stick fully forward… yep, I was young and it sure was fun :D
 
probably gonna be smoked by the Vans reps here… but here goes:
Is a -6 of the latter series, equipped with a -8 tail, then okeyd for recreational spins?
Along the same token, couldn’t the Vne be, as for the -8, 200 KTAS iso 182?

Thanks for your answers, shields are on ;)

Not a relevant comparison. Van's "recommendation" against spinning the 6 is his opinion and general advice to the pilot population which much consider the lowest common denominator on the spectrum of pilot experience. It is NOT a manufacturer prohibition or in the same category as airframe ops limits specs.
 
Gotcha, thanks for the good answer luddite42.
Shields still held up for the incoming…
 
probably gonna be smoked by the Vans reps here… but here goes:
Is a -6 of the latter series, equipped with a -8 tail, then okeyd for recreational spins?
Along the same token, couldn’t the Vne be, as for the -8, 200 KTAS iso 182?

Thanks for your answers, shields are on ;)

PS
Whilst getting acquainted with the DHC-1 Chipmunk, we practiced 10 turn spin-flat-spins for a whole hour… still feel dizzy 😵*💫
Recovery easily took 2-3 turns with the stick fully forward… yep, I was young and it sure was fun :D

As already pointed out, an RV-6 is not prohibited from doing spins by Van's.
We can not really do that and still call it an aerobatic airplane.

As pointed out in the documents previously linked, Van's recommends not doing them out of concern that the rotation rate being higher than most people are likely to have experienced, that it may cause a panic reaction in some people, which could have a bad ending.
Way back when Van was flight testing the (then new) RV-6 and 6A prototypes, he had some concern about the high rotation rate that would begin to develop, so he contracted with Bob Herendeen to do some spin testing. Bob found that the airplane behaved entirely normal, but had a rather high rotation rate once a spin was fully developed.
As a result of that testing, the decision was made to recommend that spins not be done recreationally.
 
Thanks for that Scott.
Recall some of that history, all published in the original (yes ladies and gents, real paper, what a feel…) RVator. And yes, it all made and still makes sense, even to me ;)

Any take on the Vne of a -6 equipped with an -8 tail?
 
Thanks for that Scott.
Recall some of that history, all published in the original (yes ladies and gents, real paper, what a feel…) RVator. And yes, it all made and still makes sense, even to me ;)

Any take on the Vne of a -6 equipped with an -8 tail?

Probably the same as -6 since the way I understand it Vne is calculated from 25 kn vertical gust g load at gross weight.
 
thanks swjohnsey. Roger that, but not sure the Vne was calculated using vertical gust factors, as opposed to flutter protection.

I’m digging out some old threads on the subject, and don’t want to thread drift this one further… the subject being spinning :)
 
Other factors

You would have to ask Vans but I doubt they would give you a different Vne based solely on the tail surfaces change. Changing Vne would require engineering and flight test. Both of these are expensive and I cannot see Vans making a business case for this.
 
Experience cannot be substituted.

Early in my recreational flight experience I was fortunate to have a nationally ranked aerobatic pilot give me a treat on my birthday, and a life-long experience (Thank you Mr. Mike Scalara, Spokane WA)! He provided an hour of aerobatics in a Pitts S2A. It taught me my limits and coupled my reactions in the cockpit to with a controlled pucker factor in any plane. Spin your 6 with an experienced pilot so you calibrate to the advanced spin rate and break for safety, why not? But seeking them on the weekends, yikes! Guess I’d rather roll around the sky a little and not torque my plane so much IMHO. Mike wherever you are, god bless you for your knowledge and experience!
 
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