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  #61  
Old 11-26-2020, 08:04 AM
MacCool's Avatar
MacCool MacCool is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: central Minnesota
Posts: 286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
The majority of states have no rules requiring insurance for airplanes; some do, but the required coverage is usually ludicrously low. More common is for airports to require liability coverage from their tenants; but this is not to protect tenants, it’s because the airport wants itself to be a named insured. They want to be sure that they’re covered for anything a tenant might do.
Yes. Only 11 states have some kind of insurance or proof-of-financial responsibility laws. Minnesota is the only state that requires nearly all general aviation owners to have liability insurance. The minimum amount required is $100,000 per passenger seat liability for passenger bodily injury or death and for property damage; $100,000 for bodily injury or death to each non-passenger in any one accident; and $300,000 per occurrence for bodily injury or death to non-passengers in any one accident.

Otherwise,
Quote:
Hawaii, Maryland, Oregon, and Rhode Island require general aviation aircraft owners and operators to have liability insurance if they either hangar their aircraft at a state-owned airport or operate their aircraft for commercial purposes (leasing or renting out aircraft, for example).

California, Connecticut, Indiana, Massachusetts, and Virginia general aviation aircraft owners and operators are required to demonstrate aircraft financial responsibility by showing differing combinations of liability insurance, a bond, deposits of money or securities, or a letter of credit.

North Dakota has an aircraft financial responsibility requirement, but does not specify how civilian aviation pilots, owners and operators should demonstrate financial responsibility to the state.
Honestly, I didn't realize liability insurance was a requirement here, but it really didnt matter...I could see me flying without hull insurance, but certainly not without liability insurance.
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  #62  
Old 11-26-2020, 08:11 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooshball View Post

Bigger question seems to be how to get the rest of your assets out of reach...would a trust or an LLC help here?
No. Revocable trusts are just another asset pool for the attorneys; No safety provided. The benefits are mostly tax avoidance and eliminating probate issues. Irrevocable trusts, I believe, are protected, as they are not really your assets and you have no real way to withdraw from them; That money has already legally been given to someone else. These are usually used by the big money families and can't imagine there is much of this in experimental ownership. LLCs do nothing, as it is not the airplane that is liable for the damage, it is the pilot. If the pilot were flying commercially under the employ of the LLC, that would be a somewhat different matter. If you setup an LLC for the sole purpose of holding your money or reducing taxes, I am pretty sure it would be fair game for the plaintiff.

Primary homes (2nd homes, etc. are excluded) are almost universally shielded from judgements. Further, many states will prevent plantiffs from tapping into official retirement accounts (IRA, 401k, etc.). Those are about the only two places to shield money from negligence judgements.

Larry
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N11LR - RV-10, Flying as of 12/2019

Last edited by lr172 : 11-26-2020 at 08:24 AM.
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  #63  
Old 11-26-2020, 01:21 PM
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skylor skylor is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 928
Default Ground Injuries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooshball View Post
Most responses on this thread are only dealing with passenger risk...what if you have an abrupt in flight failure and crash into a crowded building, or land on a road causing a bus full of people to wreck? Clearly none of these limits will be enough.

Bigger question seems to be how to get the rest of your assets out of reach...would a trust or an LLC help here?
While occasionally, though rare, RV sized (even the -10) single engine general aviation aircraft accidents have caused individual fatalities on the ground, it's quite rare for these accidents to result in multiple ground fatalities even when there is a direct hit on a vehicle or structure. One can worry all they want about liability for this type of risk but the data points to it being incredibly low. Frankly, if you're that risk averse you probably shouldn't be flying GA aircraft in the first place!

Skylor

Last edited by skylor : 11-26-2020 at 01:44 PM.
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  #64  
Old 11-26-2020, 03:30 PM
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Bill.Peyton Bill.Peyton is offline
 
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Location: St. Louis, MO
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In most states, jointly held property is also excluded from judgements
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  #65  
Old 11-27-2020, 05:13 AM
sam@riddlehill.com sam@riddlehill.com is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Malden, MO
Posts: 11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jliltd View Post
I have had a horror story with Star when it came to a totally legitimate claim. A friend had a professional ferry service move his Super Cub and the highly-rated yet green ferry pilot ground looped the heck out of it at the first fuel stop. The ferry outfit (operated by some lady out of Austin who is a hit on the social media sites) had Star. So ...Star is full of ****.
I have zero experience with Star, so this is not a defense or indictment...but it sounds like Star was trying every avenue to minimize exposure to their client. And it bears stating that the airplane owner, in this case, is NOT their client (unless the a/c owner had hull coverage with Star.). My takeaway is to check with my insurer before having my plane ferried. I assume if the plane was damaged, my insurance would pay me and then go after the ferry company for restitution. Sorry for the thread creep.
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  #66  
Old 11-27-2020, 09:14 AM
pilotyoung pilotyoung is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 218
Default RV-10 $18,000 insurance quote

There is another aspect to this matter, personal financial responsibility. Let's say you are taking a friend for a ride as I do all the time. You have a landing accident and your friend suffers serious, but non-life threatening injuries. By the time he recovers he has $50,000.00 in medical bills. Plus he misses work for two months and does not get paid.

Would you feel responsible for his injuries and expenses? If so, having liability insurance, and medical payments coverage, will get his claim settled up to the passenger liability on the policy.
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Serial Number 120022, N6812Y
Bought it as a flying airplane in Feb. 2018
Just passed 300 hours flight time in RV-12, and 10,000 hours mostly in corporate jets. I am a CFI; CFII; MEI; and a Advanced Ground Instructor, CFIG; and hoping to be able to help new RV-12 owners by doing some transition training for new builders and owners in RV-12's.
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  #67  
Old 11-27-2020, 09:32 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotyoung View Post
There is another aspect to this matter, personal financial responsibility. Let's say you are taking a friend for a ride as I do all the time. You have a landing accident and your friend suffers serious, but non-life threatening injuries. By the time he recovers he has $50,000.00 in medical bills. Plus he misses work for two months and does not get paid.

Would you feel responsible for his injuries and expenses? If so, having liability insurance, and medical payments coverage, will get his claim settled up to the passenger liability on the policy.
To add to that, subrogation efforts in the medical insurance arena is on the uptick. Many payers will now ask their members if their large expenses are the result of an accident and will then look to collect from another insurer or the responsible party directly. In some cases, it may not be just doing the right thing.

Larry
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  #68  
Old 11-27-2020, 10:04 AM
flyinhood flyinhood is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: 52F
Posts: 205
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Speaking of subrogation,

For you instructors out there. I have been requiring a Waver of Subrogation from each RV owner's insurance I have flown with. It is usually only 2 emails and you're done. But makes sure everyone stays friends if a tire blows on landing, and the prop touches a runway light.
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  #69  
Old 11-28-2020, 06:39 AM
Skysailor Skysailor is offline
 
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Location: Atlanta, GA
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Can you post the Waiver of Subrogation you use? PM or email also works if you would rather not post.
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