Hi, I started this RV project after finding and talking to the only TC with in 50 miles according to the EAA site, even joined his chapter 30 miles away from the local chapter. He agreed to inspect my work,So I buy an emp. when I ask him to look at the emp. before I start closing it, he basically refused, said "oh you don't want me to look at it" and referred me to an AP in the group that told me he has never done any inspections on Homebuilt planes. It seems I'm located in the middle of an EAA non-functioning TC vortex. There are many homebuilts here [not RV's],so they pulled it off. The friendly old timers I know here in SE Washington told me to not even bother joining the local EAA chapter, they had left the chapter and said I would get no help, I watch them at our hangers and they ignore each other. I've tried to talk to a couple of them [local EAA] and got the cold shoulder,wierd. There must be some history that predates my aviation entry here. I envy the comradier I hear of on here. I've built many RC's,but people don't ride in them. Do I have to have TC inspections? Do I just build on? How would you proceed? Gene
Van's Air Force
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Closing without TC inspections ?
- Thread starter gbumga
- Start date
TC Inspections
Gene,
I am not sure exactly where in WA you are located but a few years ago I was in Spokane visiting. While there I looked up some RV'ers on the white pages and made several calls but never recieved a call back. Sort of strange. I know here in OH if there is a call for help it is usually answered vigoursly. Keep the faith and if nothing else you will find lots of support on this forum
Val K.
RV-8
Dayton, OH
Gene,
I am not sure exactly where in WA you are located but a few years ago I was in Spokane visiting. While there I looked up some RV'ers on the white pages and made several calls but never recieved a call back. Sort of strange. I know here in OH if there is a call for help it is usually answered vigoursly. Keep the faith and if nothing else you will find lots of support on this forum
Val K.
RV-8
Dayton, OH
tomhanaway
Well Known Member
When I wanted to get a tech inspection, I posted the request in the VAF forums for my area of the US. Got several very helpful replies, the man that actually came to my house was great.
He actually flew into Fl on weekends for his clients. He came by the house and spent four hours with me and the plane.
You might try posting there.
Tom Hanaway
He actually flew into Fl on weekends for his clients. He came by the house and spent four hours with me and the plane.
You might try posting there.
Tom Hanaway
aviationgeek84
Well Known Member
My TC visit was excellent - I am surprised to hear your story. But, it's not a requirement (that I know of) to have your work inspected before closing, at least in the US. 
Excuse me if this seems blunt, but the EAA chapter and your local TC don't owe you anything. So you joined....and? You tend to get what you give. Have you jumped in, participated, volunteered, done anything to earn your way? Do you even attend the meetings?
EAA activity is a volunteer system.
BTW, tail parts are portable. Maybe you should take them to the next meeting.
Dan H.
I understand knowone owes me anything. Yes I attended every meeting for a yr before I ask him to check. I volunteered to help at the flyin, I was part of. I think if a person says something then he needs to do what the heck he says he would, isn't that called having character? I have to earn the right to have a TC do what he said he would do? I help people at the airport that I don't even know,traveler's ect. Maybe I should be asking them what's in it for me first. I took the tail parts to the meeting and the A/P looked at it after the TC declined and made a suggestion on a clinched rivet but said he was unfamiliar with the RV's. If I ticked you of with my statements about the condition of the EAA here, well I guess I was just being blunt. Gene
I understand knowone owes me anything. Yes I attended every meeting for a yr before I ask him to check. I volunteered to help at the flyin, I was part of. I think if a person says something then he needs to do what the heck he says he would, isn't that called having character? I have to earn the right to have a TC do what he said he would do? I help people at the airport that I don't even know,traveler's ect. Maybe I should be asking them what's in it for me first. I took the tail parts to the meeting and the A/P looked at it after the TC declined and made a suggestion on a clinched rivet but said he was unfamiliar with the RV's. If I ticked you of with my statements about the condition of the EAA here, well I guess I was just being blunt. Gene
David Clifford
Well Known Member
One of the main reasons I do not belong to a local EAA chapter, or any group of people for that matter is the fact that whenever you get a group of people together and there is not a clear-cut leader, nothing ever gets done. I find that by the time all the talk and decision making is over, I could have been done and moving on. In this case the TC sounds like he is a control freak and in actuality has no business being a TC. I never joined a local EAA chapter, however, when we were building the two Cozy MKIV's here at the house, we had absolutely no problem getting an EAA Tech Counselor to come out, inspect our work, fill out the necessary paperwork, offer tips and advice, ect. There was nothing in it for him other than the personal satisfaction of helping fellow EAA'ers out. He came out three times over the years. Thats what its all about. This particular TC along with the idiot DAR giving the one member on this forum such a deliberate hard time should be stripped of the title's.
flion
Well Known Member
When I was building in Ann Arbor in the 90s, I was unable to find any local help other than the A&Ps at American International Airways, where I worked. An IA got me started on the riveting and I attend a few gatherings at area chapters but no one inspected my work. Basically, I built in a vacuum and worried.
When I finally got the project settled in Flagstaff and was ready to start installing the avionics and engine, I decided I had to get a TC to look. Little did I know that the only TC up here was an SOB who basically tried to tell me that my workmanship was so bad that it should be sold off (thereby giving him an opportunity to get a cheap project). Fortunately, I'm the suspicious sort and had started making friends at the local airport, so I got opinions. Most of the pilots knew this guy and warned me of his game and several A&Ps (not to mention a DAR who was doing the airworthiness on my buddy's Propjet) looked my plane over and told me to carry on. Since the TC inspections are not required and no longer useful for getting an insurance break, that's exactly what I did. I now have almost 100 hours flight time on the project that guy urged me to dump.
That said, I was amazed at how much I learned and how helpful it was to have people look over my project. It gives you a confidence boost when an A&P tells you that a mistake made is not something to worry about. I was also able to bounce questions off them and get some ideas about how to do things on my particular engine/avionics installations. I'm building the -10 at the airport because, while slightly less convenient, I get a lot of eyes on the project which can only minimize problems and speed up the answers when I need them.
The -6A never did get a TC visit. Gil volunteered to come up but it was just too far and never worked out (though we got close a couple of times). I decided that no one else should have to go through that again up here, so I became a TC almost as soon as the ink was dry on my Airworthiness. I also convinced my friend to become a TC, so we have metal and fiberglass, conventional and turbine covered.
However, you should be aware that a TC's inspections are advisory. They should point out unsafe things to you and offer possible solutions but they cannot 'fail' your work. At most they can say "I wouldn't do it that way" or "a DAR might not pass that". As builder, you have to make the final decisions. It's kind of like coming here and asking a question - the more answers you get the less consensus there will probably be but the better informed your final decision will likely be. The guys on-site have the advantage that they can usually see the problem better. For an example, I had to come up with a cable bracket for my FI servo that would clear the engine mount; I came up with a couple of shaped angle pieces riveted together but I wasn't sure it would be acceptable. After a half dozen people looked at it and approved the idea (including 2 A&Ps, 1 IA, but still no TC), I was convinced.
So, long answer short (yeah, I know, too late): don't worry about the TC but be sure to cultivate some local builders and mechanics. RV experience is nice but not totally necessary.
When I finally got the project settled in Flagstaff and was ready to start installing the avionics and engine, I decided I had to get a TC to look. Little did I know that the only TC up here was an SOB who basically tried to tell me that my workmanship was so bad that it should be sold off (thereby giving him an opportunity to get a cheap project). Fortunately, I'm the suspicious sort and had started making friends at the local airport, so I got opinions. Most of the pilots knew this guy and warned me of his game and several A&Ps (not to mention a DAR who was doing the airworthiness on my buddy's Propjet) looked my plane over and told me to carry on. Since the TC inspections are not required and no longer useful for getting an insurance break, that's exactly what I did. I now have almost 100 hours flight time on the project that guy urged me to dump.
That said, I was amazed at how much I learned and how helpful it was to have people look over my project. It gives you a confidence boost when an A&P tells you that a mistake made is not something to worry about. I was also able to bounce questions off them and get some ideas about how to do things on my particular engine/avionics installations. I'm building the -10 at the airport because, while slightly less convenient, I get a lot of eyes on the project which can only minimize problems and speed up the answers when I need them.
The -6A never did get a TC visit. Gil volunteered to come up but it was just too far and never worked out (though we got close a couple of times). I decided that no one else should have to go through that again up here, so I became a TC almost as soon as the ink was dry on my Airworthiness. I also convinced my friend to become a TC, so we have metal and fiberglass, conventional and turbine covered.
However, you should be aware that a TC's inspections are advisory. They should point out unsafe things to you and offer possible solutions but they cannot 'fail' your work. At most they can say "I wouldn't do it that way" or "a DAR might not pass that". As builder, you have to make the final decisions. It's kind of like coming here and asking a question - the more answers you get the less consensus there will probably be but the better informed your final decision will likely be. The guys on-site have the advantage that they can usually see the problem better. For an example, I had to come up with a cable bracket for my FI servo that would clear the engine mount; I came up with a couple of shaped angle pieces riveted together but I wasn't sure it would be acceptable. After a half dozen people looked at it and approved the idea (including 2 A&Ps, 1 IA, but still no TC), I was convinced.
So, long answer short (yeah, I know, too late): don't worry about the TC but be sure to cultivate some local builders and mechanics. RV experience is nice but not totally necessary.
Same in Wisconsin
I too ran into the same problems which you had. I joined the local EAA chapter in Superior, which was an hour and twenty minutes away. Didn't miss a meeting for a year, helped at the pancake breakfasts, and organized the annual poker run to be sure to be active. Additionally I spent a day flying cards to 10 different airports (not that this was a bad thing), but my financial contributions were notable in my opinion. Next meeting I went to it was the same old line. A bunch of good ole' boys who had no idea who I was or what my interests were, nor were they interested in what I was doing. I felt like a newbie every single meeting.
I have now started looking at local groups of Van's builders, for me it is the Minnesota Wing. Unfortunately they are 3-4 hours away, so local is kind of a relative term. I met with John Field recently a spent a couple of hours talking and learning. He lives 4 hours from me, but it was well worth the drive and I walked away feeling like he was willing to help. Because of him, I have learned additional contacts.
I'm nervous and worry that I'm building properly, to the point that I know I am procrastinating on building. I had hoped someone in Superior would guide me and critique my work. I may have to get to the point of throwing my project in my truck and go for another drive.
I too ran into the same problems which you had. I joined the local EAA chapter in Superior, which was an hour and twenty minutes away. Didn't miss a meeting for a year, helped at the pancake breakfasts, and organized the annual poker run to be sure to be active. Additionally I spent a day flying cards to 10 different airports (not that this was a bad thing), but my financial contributions were notable in my opinion. Next meeting I went to it was the same old line. A bunch of good ole' boys who had no idea who I was or what my interests were, nor were they interested in what I was doing. I felt like a newbie every single meeting.
I have now started looking at local groups of Van's builders, for me it is the Minnesota Wing. Unfortunately they are 3-4 hours away, so local is kind of a relative term. I met with John Field recently a spent a couple of hours talking and learning. He lives 4 hours from me, but it was well worth the drive and I walked away feeling like he was willing to help. Because of him, I have learned additional contacts.
I'm nervous and worry that I'm building properly, to the point that I know I am procrastinating on building. I had hoped someone in Superior would guide me and critique my work. I may have to get to the point of throwing my project in my truck and go for another drive.
hydroguy2
Well Known Member
I met with the local(40miles away) TC before my tailkit arrived. After I bought him and his wife lunch, we went to his shop and he gave me Riveting 101 for an hour or so. A few months later, while I was working on the Emp, he called and was traveling through my town. He and his son (also an A&P) spent an hour and critiqued my work. He had a couple of comments for improvement, but overall looking good and to call him when I got into the wings. I ran into him again at a young eagle day and he said he won't be doing anymore inspections for me. what?....what'd I do?...
Turns out when he left my place for his drive 40 miles home, he had a severe allergic reaction to my shop cat and spent 3 days in the hospital on a ventilator. He said he didn't blame me, as he saw the cat during the inspection but figured the short time would be ok. We're still friends, just not at my shop. Sorry CW
I've had a RV-4 builder and anyone else come look for now. Once I move to the airport, I'll get the TC to get it his blessing again.
what?....what'd I do?... Turns out when he left my place for his drive 40 miles home, he had a severe allergic reaction to my shop cat and spent 3 days in the hospital on a ventilator.
He said he didn't blame me, as he saw the cat during the inspection but figured the short time would be ok. We're still friends, just not at my shop. Sorry CWI've had a RV-4 builder and anyone else come look for now. Once I move to the airport, I'll get the TC to get it his blessing again.
Frank Smidler
Well Known Member
People are the key
I am no longer a member of my local EAA chapter, even though I was once the president for several years. Why? The change in people. We had elected a president who was more interested in her being in control than what the members really wanted. I also got tired of her interrupting guest speakers during their presentations with her thoughts/comments. The final straw was really the lack of interest in supporting the main mission of EAA (in my opinion) which was building airplanes and how she screwed over a neighboring EAA chapter during an EAA B-17 visit to the area. She eventually pushed away several long time members.
Will I go back? Eventually yes, when the inevitable tides of change occur and new officers take over. I like the EAA chapter systems, but each one is different and each changes over time. I still received the help of the TC, a great guy by the name of Bob Kohler who's brother writes for Sports Aviation. In place of the EAA chapter there are several RV builders in the area that help each other out and give each other encouragement.
I hope you find those same minded individuals in your area that want the mutual support and willing to give assistance even if it is outside of a local EAA chapter.
I am no longer a member of my local EAA chapter, even though I was once the president for several years. Why? The change in people. We had elected a president who was more interested in her being in control than what the members really wanted. I also got tired of her interrupting guest speakers during their presentations with her thoughts/comments. The final straw was really the lack of interest in supporting the main mission of EAA (in my opinion) which was building airplanes and how she screwed over a neighboring EAA chapter during an EAA B-17 visit to the area. She eventually pushed away several long time members.
Will I go back? Eventually yes, when the inevitable tides of change occur and new officers take over. I like the EAA chapter systems, but each one is different and each changes over time. I still received the help of the TC, a great guy by the name of Bob Kohler who's brother writes for Sports Aviation. In place of the EAA chapter there are several RV builders in the area that help each other out and give each other encouragement.
I hope you find those same minded individuals in your area that want the mutual support and willing to give assistance even if it is outside of a local EAA chapter.
I am a supporter of EAA
Hi all, Regardless of the problems with some players at local EAA Chapters I want to say I am a big supporter of EAA and AOPA. They fight the fight for us and I appreciate there efforts so I send them $. I will build on without TC help locally, I think I'll at some point contact the 105 guys in the Portland Oregon area and see if I can pay gas or something for one of there TC's to take a look at major closeout points, heck there only a little over an hour away in an RV. I didn't mean for this thread to be an EAA basher but it is interesting to see that this goes on in other locals also. People are of all kinds so you just hang with the good guys and let the others mess with someone else. It does just blow me away that I live in an area with over 200,000 and three airports and I've seen/meet 2 RV guys, there has to be more building, I've seen only 6 RV's in my life guess I need to go to Vans Homecoming and Arlington. This building kind of makes me a hermit, I rarely fly my spam can, between work and building I'm maxed out. Just got a new girlfriend so I'm gona have to get a life again, seems most gals don't mind flying after I explain things to em, but one did the fetal position on me on landing, that is a little distracting, funny but you know its going on and I need all my brain cells firing on one subject for landings. best Gene
Hi all, Regardless of the problems with some players at local EAA Chapters I want to say I am a big supporter of EAA and AOPA. They fight the fight for us and I appreciate there efforts so I send them $. I will build on without TC help locally, I think I'll at some point contact the 105 guys in the Portland Oregon area and see if I can pay gas or something for one of there TC's to take a look at major closeout points, heck there only a little over an hour away in an RV. I didn't mean for this thread to be an EAA basher but it is interesting to see that this goes on in other locals also. People are of all kinds so you just hang with the good guys and let the others mess with someone else. It does just blow me away that I live in an area with over 200,000 and three airports and I've seen/meet 2 RV guys, there has to be more building, I've seen only 6 RV's in my life guess I need to go to Vans Homecoming and Arlington. This building kind of makes me a hermit, I rarely fly my spam can, between work and building I'm maxed out. Just got a new girlfriend so I'm gona have to get a life again, seems most gals don't mind flying after I explain things to em, but one did the fetal position on me on landing, that is a little distracting, funny but you know its going on and I need all my brain cells firing on one subject for landings. best Gene
Allbee
Hi, I'm in the Tri-Cities, Richland to be specific. I've followed your posts. Believe you were in Spokane? And I think you used an IO-360 A1B6? I slowed way down building after the TC thing, bought the wing kit and it's set in the hanger for months now because of a permit snafu with the city on my home garage, can't do wings in a basement. Gene
Hi, I'm in the Tri-Cities, Richland to be specific. I've followed your posts. Believe you were in Spokane? And I think you used an IO-360 A1B6? I slowed way down building after the TC thing, bought the wing kit and it's set in the hanger for months now because of a permit snafu with the city on my home garage, can't do wings in a basement. Gene
cln1owner
Well Known Member
Gene,
I'll second Allbee's enthusiasm. If you need a another pair of eyes sometime, I live in the Moses Lake area.
Hi Joe,
When the weather is decent, you can find lots guys who'll gladly fly up there to look at your project (it might cost you a Big Mac or something). The Minnesota guys frequently jump up there or to Duluth on Saturdays for pancakes...it's only about a 35-40 min flight from the twin cities in the RV. Heck, I've even been known to run up to Madeline Island or Duluth for Lunch. If you ever need anything, I can tell you that you'll be hard pressed to find a better bunch of RV guys than the Minnesota Wing. Lot's of RV's, lots of history and lots of camaraderie.
Cheers,
Stein
Thanks...
Thanks Stein!
I guess I never thought of bringing the wisdom to my project. I am more than willing to pay for fuel costs/buy a meal to get some guidance. A small investment for something which my life will count on being correct. I guarantee I have the new guy jitters and would love to hear what is right or wrong.
Spoke with Doug via e-mail a couple of weeks ago and will mail the Mn Wing application tomorrow.
Thanks Stein!
I guess I never thought of bringing the wisdom to my project. I am more than willing to pay for fuel costs/buy a meal to get some guidance. A small investment for something which my life will count on being correct. I guarantee I have the new guy jitters and would love to hear what is right or wrong.
Spoke with Doug via e-mail a couple of weeks ago and will mail the Mn Wing application tomorrow.
