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Reserved "N" numbers available

jdearborn

Well Known Member
A heads up. I have two "N" numbers reserved for the RV10 that I am going to let expire July 18, 2015; N910RV and N410JD.
 
I would like a short number but going to the FAA site, I cant give them a combo of starting range and trailing characters that works. Any ideas? Maybe my browser is not allowing it.
 
i'd love to change my registration but im apprehensive about the paperwork.

I would like a short number but going to the FAA site, I cant give them a combo of starting range and trailing characters that works. Any ideas? Maybe my browser is not allowing it.
 
Indeed. I'm glad I obtained my short N-number before this guy came along.

No kidding. This kind of stuff is annoying.

Other than the sheer number of N-numbers, what's to prevent someone from registering them ALL (could probably write a bit of software to manage the registrations, fees, and renewals when due), and then charge sky-high prices for them?

Hmmmmm....
 
squatter

Take a look at this website......

www.short-n-numbers.com

Reminds me of the beginning of the commercialization of the internet. I ran an internet service provider and we had this customer who would 'hostage' domain names. I can remember him having carlsjr.com, lakings.com and a few other prominent names. Carls Jr came looking for theirs and he told them $5000. They didn't like that and fired up their lawyers and the courts sided with them. That pretty much ended that business idea.

I'll bet that if the FAA took a closer look at this, they would not be too thrilled with it.
 
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i'd love to change my registration but im apprehensive about the paperwork.

The paperwork was really not that difficult. I got lucky about 7 years ago, and found exactly what I wanted. A few letters, forms, and just a couple of Washington's, and it was a done deal. Probably one of the easier interactions with the FAA that I have experienced.
 
Reminds me of the beginning of the commercialization of the internet. I ran an internet service provider and we had this customer who would 'hostage' domain names. I can remember him having carlsjr.com, lakings.com and a few other prominent names. Carls Jr came looking for theirs and he told them $5000. They didn't like that and fired up their lawyers and the courts sided with them. That pretty much ended that business idea.

I'll bet that if the FAA took a closer look at this, they would not be too thrilled with it.

I picked a random number from their site, 1 digit + 2 letters...they want $750 for it.

I may just start that business after all, given that reserving one is only 10 bucks.

What a rip-off. Somebody really should turn the FAA on to this scam.
 
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I bought my short number from a broker a couple years ago, but....it was only $125. It felt a little odd at the time, but I'm glad I got it. N4AS (my initials)
 
I wanted a single trailing letter. In my opinion it is easier to say just one letter when you are communicating. I went to the broker site and the one I wanted was $2500. I couldn't figure out how they could re-sell FAA numbers and I did not buy one from them.

David posted a link to help me find what I want and offered help. I went to the link and it was very helpful and didn't cost me a cent. http://caura.homenet.org/nsearch/

I was able to get the number I wanted and thrilled it was only $10 as it should be.

Thanks David. If we meet at AV, dinner is on me!
 
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Whoa there cowboys.

What Sean (a brother VAF member) is doing with short-n-numbers.com is neither illegal, immoral or a scam. He has simply bought a cheap commodity and is re marketing it to folks like us who might put a higher value on it. I inquired about a number and did a little negotiating with him, but it ended up being a little too rich for my blood. If someone else wants to purchase that number for their price, then (as my Aussie brothers say) good on them.

But let's not excoriate Sean for plying his legal business.

Peace and love,

Steve
 
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Just speculation, nothing new. Happened with web addresses many years ago but with much bigger bucks than we are talking here. Had a friend tell me last week he was having his Cessna repainted. It seems a gentleman was interested enough in his tail number that he paid to repaint the plane for him.
 
What Sean (a brother VAF member) is doing with short-n-numbers.com is neither illegal, immoral or a scam. He has simply bought a cheap commodity and is re marketing it to folks like us who might put a higher value on it. I inquired about a number and did a little negotiating with him, but it ended up being a little too rich for my blood. If someone else wants to purchase that number for their price, then (as my Aussie brothers say) good on them.

But let's not excoriate Sean for plying his legal business.

Peace and love,

Steve

I respectfully disagree. This was clearly not the intent of the FAA when the system was established. Short-N-Numbers is merely making a business of exploiting a loophole in the system.
I found it interesting that their very rudimentary website lists no company info, or contact details. Also, if he is a real "RV Brother" why does he not offer deep discounts to folks on this forum, or at least post up here to inform his "brothers and sisters" that their dream N# may be available after all?
The airlines and other aviation businesses have over the years reserved sequential N#'s, but that was for their corporate use, not for profit. IMHO, that was the intent of the FAA's implementation of an N# reservation program.
 
I respectfully disagree.

Yup

What Sean (a brother VAF member) is doing with short-n-numbers.com is neither illegal, immoral or a scam.

Peace and love,

Steve

I'll give you illegal, but morality...? Too subjective. People have different tolerances for what they're able to do and still sleep at night. Some would say smart, some slimy. I'll vote for the latter...:rolleyes:
 
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Yup



I'll give you illegal, but morality...? Too subjective. People have different tolerances for what they're able to do and still sleep at night. Some would say smart, some slimy. I'll vote for the later...:rolleyes:

Sleazy is the word that comes to mind.

Akin to the patent trolls.
 
Just speculation, nothing new. Happened with web addresses many years ago but with much bigger bucks than we are talking here. Had a friend tell me last week he was having his Cessna repainted. It seems a gentleman was interested enough in his tail number that he paid to repaint the plane for him.

And cybersquatting has been fought, as well, oftentimes successfully, through both the courts and through ICANN.
 
"All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing".

Want to put him out of business? Just don't buy anything from him. He still has to pay the small reservation fee, he'll drop the business if it loses money.

Personally I don't need any particular N number so badly that I'd support this version of free enterprise.
 
"All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing".

Want to put him out of business? Just don't buy anything from him. He still has to pay the small reservation fee, he'll drop the business if it loses money.

Personally I don't need any particular N number so badly that I'd support this version of free enterprise.

And meanwhile, since he's reserved all the 1 and 2 number n-numbers and such, nobody gets them.

I still say it's sleazy.
 
But let's not excoriate Sean for plying his legal business.

Nah... I'm not the type that turns people into the authorities on stuff like this. I let Karma handle all that.

I also don't put too much thought into an 'N' number. I do have one reserved but if I let it expire and loose it, oh well. Won't change the flight characteristics of my future plane.
 
my preferred number was available direct from the FAA and not any third party gouger and reserved it.. now to figure out how to change it all. fun!!

The paperwork was really not that difficult. I got lucky about 7 years ago, and found exactly what I wanted. A few letters, forms, and just a couple of Washington's, and it was a done deal. Probably one of the easier interactions with the FAA that I have experienced.
 
How

my preferred number was available direct from the FAA and not any third party gouger and reserved it.. now to figure out how to change it all. fun!!

How does he actually transfer a number to someone else?

Isn't this a function of the FAA Registration Branch?

Does he release it and have the buyer simultaneously request the number?
 
I must agree that this form of "free enterprise" is repugnant. I find it ethically appalling that the FAA allows this. Reservation of N numbers should be for personal use (or internal use in the case of airlines) only. Reselling a federally mandated registration number is borderline criminal. How many who are ok with this practice would change your tune if I reserved ALL of them and charged a fee? I realize that this is mostly unrealistic but still theoretically possible.

From now on, everyone must pay me a fee for registering your aircraft. I am thinking $1000 each sounds pretty reasonable to cover all of my free enterprise expenses.

Ridiculous. The only thing worse than the guy who reserved all these is the fact that now that he has, if he let them go someone else would jump all over it.

Does anyone else smell the sewage-smell wafting off of that website?
 
Gil,
I had a gentleman contact me about a number I had saved. Apparently the number had a sentimental value to him. I found that there was a better number that had become available so I allowed him to have my number for the cost of transfer. He sent me a check for the FAA and a reservation form filled out. I sent these to the FAA with a letter asking them to release the number to him.
Took a couple of weeks. Easy-peasy.
 
N number

Plenty of easy to say and cool sounding N- Numbers available. Go thru the FAA site and do some searching , might even find another 666 or triple something . . "Triple Six Tango Alpha "
 
Free enterprise is about finding ways to add value to benefit others and get rewarded for your ability to make their life better.through selling your product or service that does this. This leads to better lives far all, respect from others and self respect.

This here, well it's just sleazy. No value add, no respect from others, no self respect.

Tim
 
Plenty of easy to say and cool sounding N- Numbers available. Go thru the FAA site and do some searching , might even find another 666 or triple something . . "Triple Six Tango Alpha "

EXACTLY! I found my number that way "Eight One Niner Papa Romeo". Not the 1st number I wanted but still a cool number to me.

This is just Supply & Demand in action. If you want THAT specific number be prepared to pay. Otherwise just get another available number and let him keep speculating that someone will eventually pay for it. Besides, I have seen too many people go bankrupt while speculating on a business idea like this. The market will decide if this was a good or bad idea.

:cool:
 
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Free enterprise is about finding ways to add value to benefit others and get rewarded for your ability to make their life better.through selling your product or service that does this. This leads to better lives far all, respect from others and self respect.

This here, well it's just sleazy. No value add, no respect from others, no self respect.

Tim

And to add to it, it's not really a "free market", either...since N-numbers are required by law.

Too bad the FAA doesn't have some control over this...it'd be easy enough, just pass a rule that nobody can charge more to "sell" an n-number than they charge to issue them.

Since they won't...I wonder how many n-numbers are actually currently available? At 10 bucks a pop, it might not take much to get them *all* and be guaranteed a tidy profit.
 
Wow, what a profitable enterprise, why didn't I think of this! If you owned ALL of those available, maybe $1000 would be a good price, then again what the heck, if you owned all of them why not more like $10,000 each. Quite obviously there is no law against doing just that.
And to add to it, it's not really a "free market", either...since N-numbers are required by law.

Too bad the FAA doesn't have some control over this...it'd be easy enough, just pass a rule that nobody can charge more to "sell" an n-number than they charge to issue them.

Since they won't...I wonder how many n-numbers are actually currently available? At 10 bucks a pop, it might not take much to get them *all* and be guaranteed a tidy profit.
 
EXACTLY! I found my number that way "Eight One Niner Papa Romeo". Not the 1st number I wanted but still a cool number to me.

This is just Supply & Demand in action. If you want THAT specific number be prepared to pay. Otherwise just get another available number and let him keep speculating that someone will eventually pay for it. Besides, I have seen too many people go bankrupt while speculating on a business idea like this. The market will decide if this was a good or bad idea.

:cool:

I reserved one the other day (NOT a short one) which is not exactly what I wanted, but it is really close. I reserved it from the FAA site. It still fits the theme I wanted. Now waiting to get the official FAA letter.

The fact that people can reserve numbers and sell the rights to them is not a problem other than that as someone else said here, they are required. Don't hate the player; hate the game. It's the same in every regulated industry. The problem is the regulation, not the people who follow it.
 
I reserved one the other day (NOT a short one) which is not exactly what I wanted, but it is really close. I reserved it from the FAA site. It still fits the theme I wanted. Now waiting to get the official FAA letter.

The fact that people can reserve numbers and sell the rights to them is not a problem other than that as someone else said here, they are required. Don't hate the player; hate the game. It's the same in every regulated industry. The problem is the regulation, not the people who follow it.

Yea, but this dude isn't following the regulation, he is exploiting the regulation for profit...come to think of it, that sounds a bit like trading carbon credits...hmmm .

Tim
 
Yea, but this dude isn't following the regulation, he is exploiting the regulation for profit...come to think of it, that sounds a bit like trading carbon credits...hmmm .

Tim

The regulations (in any industry) are exploited by the regulated all the time. In the worst cases, the regulators and the regulated trade favors and find a revolving door of jobs between government and industry. Regulatory capture is inevitable. People like me like to use this as an argument for minimizing regulation.
 
Will you sell me the N number off your RV for $10? No, how about for a million dollars? Yes?
OK, now that we have established your are an entreprener, all we are doing is negotiating the price.:)
 
I reserved one the other day (NOT a short one) which is not exactly what I wanted, but it is really close. I reserved it from the FAA site. It still fits the theme I wanted. Now waiting to get the official FAA letter.

The fact that people can reserve numbers and sell the rights to them is not a problem other than that as someone else said here, they are required. Don't hate the player; hate the game. It's the same in every regulated industry. The problem is the regulation, not the people who follow it.


You mean the *lack* of regulation, don't you? Because there's really no lower level of regulation here available (the requirement to have an N-number is about as simple as they get, right)?
 
Wow, what a profitable enterprise, why didn't I think of this! If you owned ALL of those available, maybe $1000 would be a good price, then again what the heck, if you owned all of them why not more like $10,000 each. Quite obviously there is no law against doing just that.

If you reserve ALL the numbers then you have a monopoly and then lots of regulations kick in. :cool:
 
...Or it causes more regulation requiring the individual to tie the N number to a kit serial #, require proof/more paperwork if scratch building and/or be a legitimate kit or certified manufacturer to reserve multiple N numbers.

I'm all for free enterprise, I just wouldn't want to take on one that involves this proximity to a government entity while operating in a grey area.
 
It is the same as buying all the cool license plates and re-selling them. Oh wait, you can't do that because you do need it tied to an automobile.
 
well thanks for shedding some light on this. now EVERYONE is screwed because I just purchased all of the remaining N-numbers, every last one. I am selling the first N-number for 10 million dollars and the remaining for 1 dollar each. :eek:
 
You mean the *lack* of regulation, don't you? Because there's really no lower level of regulation here available (the requirement to have an N-number is about as simple as they get, right)?

Yes, and even that simple layer of regulation can be gamed. The fact o the registration requirement creates the opportunity.
 
well thanks for shedding some light on this. now EVERYONE is screwed because I just purchased all of the remaining N-numbers, every last one. I am selling the first N-number for 10 million dollars and the remaining for 1 dollar each. :eek:

I'll take the second one... :D
 
FAA Response...

MR.......

N-numbers can be reserved by the public as long as they are available to reserve. We have no regulation to limit how many numbers an individual or corporation may reserve. As long as they keep paying the required reservation and/or renewal fee, we will reserve the number.

Thank you
tms
 
MR.......

N-numbers can be reserved by the public as long as they are available to reserve. We have no regulation to limit how many numbers an individual or corporation may reserve. As long as they keep paying the required reservation and/or renewal fee, we will reserve the number.

Thank you
tms


Perhaps the real issue is a transfer of that reservation in mid-term?

If a reserved number is no longer wanted by an individual/corporation it should be "thrown back into the pot" for public use.

The FAA response ignored that scenario...:rolleyes:
 
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