What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Vertical Power Reliability

Have you installed and have you had a failure of your VP system

  • Installed VPX-Pro

    Votes: 52 58.4%
  • Failure of VPX-Pro

    Votes: 8 9.0%
  • Installed VPX-Sport

    Votes: 16 18.0%
  • Failure of VPX-Sport

    Votes: 2 2.2%
  • Installed VPX-200

    Votes: 7 7.9%
  • Failure of VPX-200

    Votes: 4 4.5%

  • Total voters
    89

Bill.Peyton

Well Known Member
I just had a failure of my Vertical Power VPX-Pro, the elevator trim limits no longer function, nor does the stuck switch feature. It will be going back after we complete our planned trip.
I would like to ascertain the reliability of the VP system now that we have a significant number in the field. Note:

Note:The poll questions are exclusive! If you have NOT had a failure then please respond with Installed XXX
 
Last edited:
I had a similar issue with an early VP-X Sport unit. The power supply that provides the reference voltage for the trim position failed to put out +5V. Sent it back and they fixed it. Ended up having some other issues with that unit, so I was given a replacement, which has been working just fine for 300 hours.
 
Mine is showing the position on the display and the trim position on the configurator is indicating movement etc. It just won't stop at the preset end points.
 
Installed VPX Pro and has been working perfectly for 460 hours in 1 3/4 years!

...hope that I didn't jinx myself!

:cool: CJ
 
Last edited:
I'm old school and don't know if I'm eligible because I bought one of the very first VP-50s and it's been rock solid.

I kind of wish I'd bought two, though because when that one goes, I'm kinda screwed.
 
I have installed half a dozen VP-200's, a VP-100, several VP-50's and now a couple of VP-X's. Very few failures so far.
 
Jesse,
If you have the data, please post it for the survey. So far it's not looking to good for reliability!
 
I have a VP-200 that I purchased years before I flew. So far so good, but like Bob and his VP-50, if any of the components tanks (and with the 200 there's 3 main units -- control unit, display, and switch panel) then I'm hosed.

I stopped by the VP booth at OSH and had a brief conversation with Chad about a future replacement, but I'm still undecided on what direction to go when my VP-200 fails (and I'm 100% certain it will eventually). One things for certain is I won't go VP-X like as I don't like relying on my EFIS displays for power control--same reason I don't like and don't use my EFIS's built-in autopilot (my AP is a separate unit.)
 
I'll try to remember the stats. I don't think I ever had any failures of any kind on the VP-50's (2-4 installed IIRC) or he VP-100 (1 installed). I had some early issues with the VP-200's that Marc fixed, but it was fairly minor stuff. I have had one DIsplay Unit fail completely that I was able to find a new replacement for. I think I installed 4-6 of these units. I haven't had any problems to date with the VP-X.

The automatic mode switching was the best feature of the VP-200. Any of the VP-X compatible vendors could write software for automatic mode switching with the VP-X if they wanted to. I wish one of them would. That was such a great feature.
 
I just had a failure of my Vertical Power VPX-Pro, the elevator trim limits no longer function, nor does the stuck switch feature. It will be going back after we complete our planned trip.
I would like to ascertain the reliability of the VP system now that we have a significant number in the field. Note:

Note:The poll questions are exclusive! If you have NOT had a failure then please respond with Installed XXX

Bill, i would like to recommend you adjust your survey to include " Classic VP 50 & VP 100's. You might get a broader spectrum of the same (simliar) product.
 
John,
I don't know how to revise the survey. As I recall the older units did not have the dual buss the new ones do.
 
John,
I don't know how to revise the survey. As I recall the older units did not have the dual buss the new ones do.

Fair enough.

Interesting survey....good to get some data on the failures.

I was lucky to buy a "new" backup VP100 from a builder who is going with the newer stuff.

Knock on wood....my VP100 has 300 hours/6 years of good ops.
 
failure before 1st flight, solid after that

My VP-X pro failed while I was still building. One of the two controllers died, unit wouldn't talk to the EFIS and switch inputs on that controller didn't work. VP-x (prior to their sale) fixed under warranty. The unit has been solid since- 450 hours in 2.5 years.
 
Mine has been working great.

My only complaint is that the builder could have chosen a better location to mount it. Oh wait, that was me.😄
 
My VPX-200 failed during construction; probably my fault. But since it is orphaned, I had no recourse. Aerotronics is now rebuilding my panel with a dual VPX-Pro (because the Pro does not have enough circuits to support the G-900X plus backup EFIS plus AC plus EI plus Oxygen EDS.) I'm disappointed in the lower number of circuits and the lack of automated mode switching and the lack of a dedicated display (Garmin does not support VPX on the G-900X) but I guess VPX considers me an outlier. If I were starting from scratch again, I would go with a normal electrical system with breakers.
 
My VPX-200 failed during construction; probably my fault. But since it is orphaned, I had no recourse. Aerotronics is now rebuilding my panel with a dual VPX-Pro .... If I were starting from scratch again, I would go with a normal electrical system with breakers.

I can understand the need to go with dual VPX-Pro units to avoid single fault casualty risk, but at a cost of $4000+ I suspect the old fashion way would be a lot less expensive.

Carl
 
VP-X Pro Failure

Bank A of my VP-X Pro failed while I was sitting in my RV-9A practising to use the new Dynon Skyview. This was about 1 week before my scheduled first flight in 2015.

The failure of Bank A cut power to my left Skyview screen, the audio panel, com 1, the transponder, flaps and some lights. Bank B kept powering the right Skyview screen and com 2, which was useless without the audio panel. I was thankful to be sitting inside my hangar.

Removed the VP-X Pro and called Vertical Power. Was told to call Chad Jensen who was in Germany at a trade show. Chad was excellent! Told me to send the unit back immediately and they would repair it.

Two weeks later, I was still waiting for the VP-X so that I could do my first flight. Chad tried his best to keep things moving. Finally, I could no longer wait and ordered a new VP-X Pro from Aircraft Spruce.

First flight was two days later. (Excellent flight, by the way!) A few days later, the repaired VP-X Pro arrived from Vertical Power. No charge for the repair or shipping even though it was out of warranty. (Thanks, Chad!)

Since the failure of the VP-X Pro, I put the audio panel and com 1 on their own circuit breakers. The alternate electronic airspeed and altitude indicator is on an inline fuse.

I checked the repaired VP-X Pro and it was fully operational. It is now in a box that I will take with me as a spare on overnight trips.

Would I design my electrical system around the VP-X Pro again? Definitely, yes. I like all the features it gives me like programming the trims, the wig-wag landing lights and the airspeed limiter on flap function. The best feature of the VP-X Pro is that I can see the status of electrical devices on my Skyview panel.
 
This lack of reliability is sure cause to think about relying solely on the vp. Without a secondary buss, it is the most critical single point failure item of the entire system. I have a secondary buss, although if I loose the VPX, I am out of luck with the flaps and trim control.
Garmin now makes a box to compliments the g3x system that performs the same function as the vp wrt flaps and trim, in addition, it has multiple analog inputs for accessories and eliminates the need for a light dimmer module.
My plan is to remove the vp and replace with two additional fuse blocks, one for avionics, and one for everything else and use the Garmin box to manage the other items.
Carrying a backup VPX should not be required!
 
VP-200

6 Years and just under 800 hours on my VP-200 with it having worked perfectly the whole time. I absolutely love the way it works, especially the mode switching but also having a separate screen with a check list feature and constant presentation of the electrical system plus a host of other information. All this without taking up screen space of your main displays.

However, should my unit fail I have nowhere to go to have it fixed and this is obviously a serious concern. At least the VPX is still in production and can be sent to the Mfg. for repair.

It is really a shame that Ballard Technology did not acquire the VP-200 at the time when they purchased the Vertical Power technology from Marc Ausman.

Can anybody tell me why they dropped this unit from the lineup?
 
Owned VP-100 & VP-X Sport

... snipped ...
I was lucky to buy a "new" backup VP100 from a builder who is going with the newer stuff.

Knock on wood....my VP100 has 300 hours/6 years of good ops.

John: glad to hear you're doing well and I can only say the transition FROM the VP-100 to the VP-X Sport was a non-trivial project. I had to re-think the electrical system because the VP-100 was more sophisticated than the Sport.

During the time the VP-100 was installed (building) there were several occasions that the 'stupid gene' kicked in and the VP saved a lot of time by annunciating the trouble, identifying the circuit, and made troubleshooting and reset a breeze. Never had any problem with the unit.

The VP-X Sport was the replacement to 1) provide a spare to another RV'er, and 2) move on quickly to the successor model as the build time was still almost two more yrs. Transition difficulty aside, the VP-X Sport has integrated well with the SkyView 10" and performed flawlessly in all respects. Again, it did exactly what was expected when the 'stupid gene' re-occurred during build of the electrical systems. Quickly identified the faulted circuit and cause. Reset the breaker and moved ahead.

The information on device (current) loads is a major benefit and the load planning is PC based and provides good 'as built' documentation, too. IF there is a weakness in the VP product, it's the incongruous (compatibility) between the web-based configurator, and the PC-based configurator used to finalize configurations. The PC-based app does not print the changes without re-visiting the Web-based configurator.

Powering down the EFIS in the SkyView system leaves the comm components with by-pass power from the VP-X, but no way to 'see the status' of circuits. However, loss of 'seeing the status' does NOT degrade the operation of the input switches to the VP-X. They continue to operate as advertised. I've considered eBUS options but have not done anything in that direction. Have over 40 hrs of buttonology time, in prepations for engine start this week.
 
Can anybody tell me why they dropped this unit from the lineup?

Good thread and information everyone, please keep it going.

The VP-200 was last produced in 2010 I believe (Marc, correct me if I'm wrong), four years before Astronics purchased Vertical Power.
 
Current tally:

11.4% failure rate for the Pro, 9% for the Sport, and 30% for the 200.
 
Current tally:

11.4% failure rate for the Pro, 9% for the Sport, and 30% for the 200.

Yes, but that's not statistically significant in that you have no idea on the real number of working and non-working units. Only the responses of those that took the survey.
 
VP-200

Current tally:

11.4% failure rate for the Pro, 9% for the Sport, and 30% for the 200.

In order for this survey to mean anything statistically there has to be a random sample of sufficient size. I don't believe this is it. Those that had failures are most likely to respond.

Here is some anecdotal information on the VP-200:
  • I am aware of 34 VP-200 Control Units. I understand ~60 were produced.
  • There was one that was experiencing problems and was apparently corrected by adding ground wires, seemed it was a static issue (Lancair).
  • There was one that had issues with two of the current measurement circuits. The owner suggests it could have been caused by a bad chip, a testing or installation error sometime along the way, or some other unknown cause (appear to be same two repaired by VP a few years ago)
  • There was one that has a problem with the current reading - unknown if this is an installation issue or actually a problem with the unit.
  • There were two that died apparently due to the positive and negative wires being reversed.
  • I know of one Display unit that got repaired.
 
Current tally:

11.4% failure rate for the Pro, 9% for the Sport, and 30% for the 200.

Dan: I'm not a VP-xxx customer and have no affiliation with the company.

Do you think the poll numbers here on VAF are in any way scientific? Wouldn't you need to know how many VP-xxx's are installed before you could come up with a percentage of failure?

For example: IF the only responders to a non-scientific poll were those who had failures, the survey would make it appear as though the failure rate was 100%.

EDIT: I should have finished reading the entire thread! I see others are making the same point.
 
Last edited:
Those that had failures are most likely to respond.

That may not be the case. It is quite possible that those that have had failures are LESS likely to respond. Consider this scenario: you buy a solid state Experimental device from a small company. You are hoping that they continue to sell the device and remain in business to support your device in the event that it dies because no-one else can support it. If you publicly bag the device about reliability issues you may shoot yourself in the foot because if enough people do the same thing it may lead to the company going under, or dumping the product....leaving you orphaned. :eek:

I have no horse in this race but the survey statistics on the VP products seem to me to be just terrible for a very critical piece of equipment.
 
Last edited:
Dan: I'm not a VP-xxx customer and have no affiliation with the company.

Do you think the poll numbers here on VAF are in any way scientific? Wouldn't you need to know how many VP-xxx's are installed before you could come up with a percentage of failure?

For example: IF the only responders to a non-scientific poll were those who had failures, the survey would make it appear as though the failure rate was 100%.

EDIT: I should have finished reading the entire thread! I see others are making the same point.

The poll is not scientific.

The same argument applies to positive commentary...small numbers, self-selected, no controls.

Follow the argument to its logical conclusion, and scientific accuracy would require us to disregard almost everything we read on VAF. Problem is, when we turn off our screens our statistical sample drops to one. Even with its imperfections, group information is valuable.

This is a product line marketed as being highly reliable, statistically much more so than conventional circuit breakers. Here the poll numbers could be off by a factor of ten, and still disprove the claim.
 
Last edited:
Here the poll numbers could be off by a factor of ten, and still disprove the claim.
Or prove the claim. So are we going to rely on it to give us insight either way? I know I am not.

For full disclosure, I have NOT taken the poll. I DO have a VP50 (that was not listed in the poll). I DID have a failure. Still, I like the unit functionality. On the other hand, I DO NOT like the unit because it has been orphaned. Were I to do it again I would be using a simple fuse block and switches instead.

Live Long and Prosper! Oh, and see you in 3 weeks at Petit Jean! :D
 
So unscientific as to be worthless data.

I know of three people (including myself) that have installed VP/X units in there RV's and have had no issues.

That is also useless data, except to say I know only one of them has replied to this poll.

-Dan
 
Adding to the skew of the poll, there is no consideration of the installations. Some are far better than others. If a VP-X was abused or improperly installed where does that fall into the failure category? You can't expect any device to withstand parameters beyond it's design limits. I installed my VP-X Pro well over 3 years ago and not one glitch, works perfectly. There was a small learning curve and a stack of instructions that must be looked at but I have absolutely no complaints. I'm not happy Marc sold the company, it's lost the personal touch Marc gave it and I don't see updates anymore since but maybe there's a better chance that this larger company will keep the product alive longer. Time will tell. One thing is for certain, I will never build another panel without a VP-X.
 
Perhaps we should start a sister poll: Have you installed and have you had a failure of your circuit breaker system. Or your fuse system.

Of course we couldn't go and muddy the waters with talk of switch-breakers. Those are out of scope. After all, the VP's still require separate switches.

Equally unscientific, of course, but I bet the results would make for an interesting comparison.
 
Perhaps we should start a sister poll: Have you installed and have you had a failure of your circuit breaker system. Or your fuse system.

Of course we couldn't go and muddy the waters with talk of switch-breakers. Those are out of scope. After all, the VP's still require separate switches.

Equally unscientific, of course, but I bet the results would make for an interesting comparison.

That would be comparing apples to oranges.
 
Adding to the skew of the poll, there is no consideration of the installations. Some are far better than others. If a VP-X was abused or improperly installed where does that fall into the failure category? You can't expect any device to withstand parameters beyond it's design limits. I installed my VP-X Pro well over 3 years ago and not one glitch, works perfectly. There was a small learning curve and a stack of instructions that must be looked at but I have absolutely no complaints.

Randy makes an important point here. I saw, and I'm sure Chad sees, a wide range of knowledge about proper installation techniques and a general learning curve. We try to mitigate this risk as much as possible with a thorough installation manual and customer support line, but we can never eliminate it.

It is my belief that the survey results are basically worthless :) because of the wide variety of external issues that can affect an installation as well as the settings configuration. I don't have a dog in this hunt any more, but regardless, my feedback remains the same.
 
Also, the poll doesn't account for those who have installed multiples, either in heir own airplanes or others. Each person gets to vote once. Also, as with many avionics, if you had a poll for anybody w has hafailure of any electronic instrument in heir panel, you would get a high failure rate as well, but that doesn't mean electronics are no good. In the panels I have installed or worked on I have had failures of auto pilot servos from several companies, efis screens from all companies, engine monitors, engine probes, adahrs, GPS units, com radios, Nav radios, etc. I keep installing and recommending them, especially for brands that have great customer service. I have had very little trouble with Vertical Power products, although the VP-200 has been a little higher proble, rate than others, but at the same time, they stopped making them years ago, so the units in the field are usually well used. I think we had about 1,000 hours on our VP-200 when the display unit failed. We may have sent a control unit back for repair once for that plane as well. I haven't had any problems that I remember from a fair number of VP-50's, VP-100's and VP-Xes.
 
No doubt that there are many installations done improperly, and in addition, physical damage to the product during the installs. After all, there is a wide range of skill sets in this group of aircraft builders. Not everyone has an electrical skill set and we should expect to see infant mortality failures as a result.
While this survey may not be statistically scientific, it's the best data we have at the moment and it should be regarded as such and taken with a grain of salt.
Marc, you were the original manufacturer of the product, could we interest you in sharing actual data you may have accumulated during the time the product was produced.
It would also be interesting to know the approximate quantity of fielded systems.

I also wanted to post that the failure that I experienced and posted was, according to MCA, not a failure. I seemed to remember that the VPX trim system would not allow the trim switch to continue to drive the trim servo beyond the set limits in the VPX. Mine would not and I flagged it as a failure. Apparently this is not true, the trim limits are only shown and set to display on the EFIS, but do not limit the trim servo, nor prevent the servo from reaching it's limits. Chad, you may want to pass this along to your folks in home office, who believed as I did!
 
Last edited:
Hi Bill, Maybe you are remembering the flap system, which does limit travel at the end of the configured stops if you have a position sensor installed.
 
It's been four years and 600 hours. It's hard to remember back that far. Did an earlier version of sw exhibit this function?
 
Failure, but...

I just saw this poll and had to vote for a failure but...I was one of the early VPX Pros that had low voltage to the flaps. But I had over 800 hours on it before it caused the flaps to stop working. I sent it in and Chad fixed it under warranty. It wasn't a major failure of the electrical system and it has performed flawlessly ever since. So...I would rank failures like mine different from failures in which the entire system quit working or one of the busses quit. Comparing it to systems with breakers and fuses there are far more plusses to the VPX than the minuses that we are hearing about.

For instance, I was able to diagnose a failing alternator because of the VPX. The VPX was tripping a breaker intermittently and I couldn't figure out why. By watching the amperage on the VPX I could see it fluctuating wildly, far above the amp set point for that circuit before it tripped. I was able to trace the problem to two broken stator wires in the alternator that caused it to throw off voltage spikes. This all happened before the alternator actually failed.
 
Back
Top