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Do you fly at night?

Do you fly at night?

  • Yes, because it is beautiful (VFR or IFR is okay)

    Votes: 131 35.7%
  • No, I want to see my kids grow up

    Votes: 54 14.7%
  • Rarely, with a full moon, clear sky's, and if the stars align

    Votes: 143 39.0%
  • Yes, but I am IFR rated so it is okay

    Votes: 39 10.6%

  • Total voters
    367

Mike D

Well Known Member
Hi everyone.
I see and read about the many RV's with varous types of nav, landing, and strobe systems installed. But I have also read that many don't fly at night because they feel it is too dangerous. But then again, there are some night flyers amongst us. I hear Team RV is doing a twilight show. (which is awesome)

My RV-6A is set up for night flight but rarely will I fly a twilight/early night flight. And only then with some good moonlight and clear sky's over familiar ground.

I know this is about your individual comfort and ability, but just wondering how many of you fly your RV's at night?

If your night flying is in the company plane, this does not count for this poll. I am asking specifically about RV's here as they are fast, single engine, maneuverable planes which pose unique risks or opportunities.
 
circle on the climb out over the airport, plan your route to overfly airports at all time, and make a game of finding the local airport with the pilot controlled lighting, where's the danger? i love night flying
 
Rarely

I do not plan night flights.... But,,,

I will plan an early AM departure 20 30 minutes before sunrise usualy first light.
Rarely,,, come in after dark, dusk.

Read Dougs safety article, and live long...........................!
 
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I have flown my RV several times at night, usually just after dusk by an hour or so. It is really enjoyable and my landings are usually pretty nice. Passengers dig the pilot controlled runway lights as well.:cool: I haven't flown at night into any other fields besides my home base, though.
 
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I voted "yes" because it is was the best of the choices you had. That said, I fully recognize that the chance of a safe forced landing is significantly reduced in the unlikely event of engine failure. With that in mind, I rarely set out on a long flight that is completely at night (though I have done it several times). When I do go that route I know that I've lost a big safety margin, and I don't take that fact lightly.
 
Home field advantage

I voted "rarely" because that is how often it happens. After 10 years flying fixed wing air ambulance, day or night, in all sorts of weather, it isn't a lack of experience or confidence. I'm just not comfortable doing single-engine night work any more....probably changed due to the addition of a wife and kids.

That being said, I will depart before sunrise or arrive after sunset at my home field. I've grown up in the area so the local knowledge gives me enough options to reduce risk to a comfortable level. The opportunity to watch the sun rise or set from the RV tips the scales a bit as well.
 
I understand that there is no right or wrong answer to this question, and I have many hours of enjoyable night flight in my Yankee. It never bothered me much to fly at night in that plane, and I had far less engine information in that panel.

However, having heard more than one former airline pilot/RV owner respond with, "I used to fly at night and hard IFR because I had redundant engines and systems AND because I was being paid to do it. I don't fly single-engine hard IFR or at night," that was good enough for me.

I have nice panel lighting and HID landing and taxi lights ... and have yet to fly at night. Go figure.
 
I fully recognize that the chance of a safe forced landing is significantly reduced in the unlikely event of engine failure. With that in mind, I rarely set out on a long flight that is completely at night (though I have done it several times). When I do go that route I know that I've lost a big safety margin, and I don't take that fact lightly.

Yep. I love night flying and do it from time to time, but I realize it ups the risk quite a bit in the event the big fan up front stops turning. I've done a couple of "long haul" night legs; departing at sunset from Palm Springs headed to Tucson, plus a dusk launch El Paso to Houston. It's kinda humbling to be out in the middle of nowhere, 11.5k feet, night, in an airplane I built in the garage... it was somewhat comforting to have I-10 in the distance. I've done Dallas-Houston numerous times in the dark, and even with I-45 tracking a few miles to the east, it's still pretty dark and desolate out there.
 
I voted rarely, but I'm hoping that is just the current state of affairs. I expect to fly more at night once I'm better versed in the 6 I bought. The statistics say the first 100 hours are the highest risk for buyers of homebuilts, so I'm working to get to at least that experience point before I do much night flying.

One of my favorite sights in the world is a sea of lights spread out in front of you. I can get a taste of that from some of the ridges around Denver, or when driving out of the mountains, but I'm definitely looking forward to canopy full of that in a small plane.

Along with the visuals of night flights, I really enjoy the cool, calm air. I only have about 20 hours at night though, and almost all of that is 20+ years ago. Night vision gets worse as you age, and also deteriorates at higher altitudes, and I'm starting at 5700'. Sometime this summer or fall I'll look up the CFI that gave me my tail wheel endorsement and we'll go for a couple night flights and see how I feel after that.

Not sure what an IFR rating has to do with it. I've logged more actual IMC than night, and IMC is definitely more work.
 
night flight

I fly at night only when I launch while dusk and the flight will end within an hour. The risk of flying at night is much greater than daylight flight, but I think it is as safe as IFR flight to get on top, etc. Hard IFR in a single engine airplane does not interest me at all.
 
I do not plan night flights.... But,,,

I will plan an early AM departure 20 30 minutes before sunrise usualy first light.
Rarely,,, come in after dark, dusk.

Read Dougs safety article, and live long...........................!


Same here - I will have the plane ready for takeoff 1/2 hr before sunrise, if I want to get an early start. I land no later than 1/2 hr after sunset.

When I was a student pilot, I did night flights and thought nothing of it. As a more experienced pilot, the idea of a forced landing at night is, to me, like trying to land wearing a blindfold, with probably similar results. Same with flying over Lake Michigan to get to Oshkosh - I did it going both ways as a fresh pilot, but now I fly around it, via Cleveland & Chicago.

If I was returning home and almost there, and thus flying over terrain I am very familiar with, AND clear skies and a moon, I might possibly push it to 1 hour after sunset.

It's not the night flying or landing that I have a problem with - it's the idea of a forced landing.
brian
 
Everyone draws their personal risk line in a slightly different place based on all of their life experiences to date, what they have learned, what they have heard, and what they have read. I don't mind flying night VFR in a single - I have done it all my life. I don't like the idea of myself flying night IFR in a single - it just crosses my personal risk line at this time, because there is so little chance to find a place to set down - like that interstate highway that John mentions.

When I look at my logbooks, I find that I flew a lot more at night when I lived up north (shorter days). the truth these days is that I have very little reason to start a flight after dark unless I am headed home because I sleep at night.... ;)

Early morning departures are wonderful when you get to watch the sun rise!
 
I voted "rarely" for all of the reasons many have listed here. I do try and keep myself night current. That usually means picking a nice moonlit night, going out to the airport and getting my three full stop landings. I am definitely more conservative about single engine night flying than I was as a young man. We plan our trips for daylight hours, so rarely have the need to be out there after dark. But, if it happens due to unforeseen circumstances, I weigh the "risk vs. reward" and if I am comfortable, I will do it.
I file IFR on almost all of my cross country trips, but feel the same way about serious IMC as I do about night flying. Rarely and cautiously! It is a struggle to really maintain IFR currency, especially single pilot.
 
Yes- I'm IFR and have a FLIR,, BUT,,

I voted yes, I'm IFR and now have the FLIR night camera, (also Avidyne TAS600 active traffic, weather, 4 AveoMaxx LED landing lights, built in MH oxygen, and more in my RV10) BUT that doesn't mean I always enjoy flying at night, sometimes, yes, sometimes no. When it's dark, it's amazing all the "new" engine noises or miss either in your mind or you "hear",,
I fly my 10 (previously 7a, Bellanca Super Viking and 172) for business and pleasure so dark will catch you, evening meetings, ball games, and school activities so I stay current. Dark is Dark in sparsely populated area's (like Kansas and New Mexico) however I avoid mountains, like east of KDVT at night.
I'd guess about 35% of my over 3,000 hrs over the past 25 years are night flights.
Stay current and stay safe.
Kenny Gene
 
This is a very interesting poll for me. I guess learning to fly up in Ohio, it really never phased me flying in IMC at night... I have never even really (until i read these reponses) thought of night flying as more or less scary /risky, it was just part of learning to fly in the northeast. Still to this day, I prefer filing IFR plans no matter the wheather or time of day. Looking at my log book, about 60% of my 123 hours IMC time was at night in SEL... Mind you that most of that time was in a college flight school maintained aircraft, which never made me question added risk of night VFR/IFR. I practiced emergency proceedures religiously and always had an "out" plan. When my RV is done, I think I'll probably have even more faith in my self-maintained AC. I did quite a bit of A&P apprentice time at my college flight school. I'll leave this a bit open ended, but my main reasoning for building is that I know my personal level of attention to detail as compared to those I worked with / learned from working on certified SEL AC following a step by step instruction book. Please don't take that the wrong way, I'm in no way shape or form discounting anyone elses work or ratings. I just think I'll fly my RV a LOT at night and or IMC. Another good question for this poll would be to see how many night hours, & IMC hours RV folks truely have.
 
I'll do the 1/2 hr before & the 1/2 after sunset thing, but don't do much night flying at all anymore.
I dropped a valve in the 172 on the 2nd leg of a "round robin" cross country one time. 1800 tta&e. The first leg was early in the morning, before sunrise. The 2nd leg was just barely daylight, had been in the air for about 20 mins.
Almost full of fuel and 4 of us (each under 170 lbs) in the airplane, could JUST maintain altitude. Made a safe landing at a real airport. All ended well.
 
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no, but....

I voted no, but like many others posting here, I will occasionally end up returning to home base within an hour after sunset, or depart before sunrise.

At those times, you have diminshed light, but enough to figure out a place to land.

Its kind of like crossing big mountains like the Sierra. You can accept the increased risk for a small percentage of the total flight. The odds of something going wrong in that particular 20-minute stretch are small compared to the overall odds of failure. So thats the line I draw. I reallhy do my best to be home before dark. In over 2000 hrs of total flying time, I have 15 hrs of night flight in my log book.
 
No

I have Day VFR machine that's why the answer is NO. As soon as I add necessary night equipment I will fly after dark.
 
I haven't flown my RV at night, but I plan to do some local stuff. (I live in central Ohio so it's not like living near the Grand Canyon.)

I was up in an RV-4 at night about a year ago and the view from the canopy is striking.

I fly at night for work and don't think twice about risks, but that's in a Falcon 2000.

I don't plan to do any hard night X/C work in my RV, but I woudn't be opposed to leaving early or coming back a little late on occassion. I flew night in singles alot in training and when I was building time and even in my 20s, I thought about the risks if the engine stopped in certain areas.

Risk v Reward (everyone has their own ratio)
 
Way back when I was a newly-minted PP-ASEL and bought my first plane (Cherokee 140) I used to fly at night a *lot*. I would routinely wait until well after dark and take off on a cross country flight to visit an airport where I'd never landed at night, but usually had been there in daylight before. Never had even the slightest issue outside of my landing light burned out one night after I already landed, but I had a spare and changed it on the ramp before taking off again. Then as I got older and more hours logged, I slowly tapered off on the night flying, and now it's pretty rare. I haven't even been night-current in over a year now.

All the old-timers around my airport have always had a saying about night flying... "Don't fly at night because the Boogerman comes out at night."

I guess I must slowly but surely be turning into one of those airport old timers now because I'm a lot more scared of the boogerman than I used to be. :eek:
 
Not sure what an IFR rating has to do with it. I've logged more actual IMC than night, and IMC is definitely more work.

Well where I fly around, a night time departure is effectively IMC from the moment you rotate.

Spatial disorientation is serious stuff. The little bit of night you might do with a vfr ticket DOES NOT prepare you for "black as the inside of a cow" kind of nights.

Sound harsh? You betcha! I would not let any of my family or friends fly at night without an instrument rating.
 
I flew my RV at night same way way I flew it during the day, always keeping an out. Flying in the SE haze is worse than flying at night when it comes to spatial disorientation. Not IR but I have more than enough hood time and actual to take the test. Just got to get it done!
I like night flying. Taxiing is what scares me now.
 
Well where I fly around, a night time departure is effectively IMC from the moment you rotate.

Spatial disorientation is serious stuff. The little bit of night you might do with a vfr ticket DOES NOT prepare you for "black as the inside of a cow" kind of nights.

Sound harsh? You betcha! I would not let any of my family or friends fly at night without an instrument rating.

I've never been inside a cow. There were a few display cows used for teaching at the Ag school at the U of Illinois that had "windows" on their sides (I kid not) but that probably isn't the kind of cow you are talking about.

Regardless, flying at night over populated areas isn't like IMC, IMO. I definitely agree with you for the middle of nowhere, but let me know if you feel the same way once you get to the Midwest in the US, where there are lights as far as the eye can see. There is a very nice horizon out there, weather permitting.

As for spotting other planes, I'll take night over IMC any day (pun intended).
 
IF BENEFIT IS WORTH THE RISK

I have flown at night when paid to do so, and I had an IFR rating for much of my flying. Most of the time I have enjoyed flying at night, and occasionally I have been very relieved to have arrived at home base safely.

My RV-7 is fitted & approved for NVFR. But I do not plan to fly at night unless the benefit of doing so would be worth the extra risk, and I am unlikely to need to fly at night now than I have retired.

Regards
 
I probably would begin a flight before dawn or complete a flight after dusk, as many here have said, but Transport Canada thinks otherwise and restricts me to day VFR due to colour vision deficiency. What can ya do...
 
Yes, but...

I like to fly at night over country I am familair with into and out of places I know well. I won't go to a new place for the first time at night. I would fly at night more often, but living in the Northwest it is just a hassle. In the summer it doesn't get dark until after 10:00 (past my bed time) and while it does get dark at 5:00 in the winter, it is also really, really cold on days that it is clear enough to fly at night.

I do, however, like to go out at night around the holidays and view all of the money that some people spend to light up their places of residence. I usually get a good chuckle, and an occasional "ooh", or "aah" moment.
 
Jeez,just like everyone else pretty much. I'll come home in the dark sometimes. It can be really black here and the mountains block out a lot of the little town lights, pretty spread out anyway. Back midwest over the carpet of light was a different deal than 13,000 foot rocks. At least they usually have snow to catch the light.
 
Birds and fools

As my grandfather was fond of saying, "only birds and fools fly and birds don't fly at night".

Well there are exception as I can attest. I have hit various kinds owls including the Tawny Frogmouth (Podargus strigoides) at night and numerous fruit bats (Pteropus poliocephalus; cat sized lumps of high density nocturnal meat with a service ceiling of 50?) and it?s never fun.

I fly at night because I have to as it is my job. Also I fly a multi engine aeroplane. When it stops being my job I will use my night flying abilities cautiously. That is, to get me home a little later than planned after a day RVing with friends and ONLY as long as all my ducks are in a row. ie, good weather, no black hole approaches, well services field (lighting) no likelihood of vermin on the aerodrome etc. (For vermin see Macropus giganteus giganteus or ?jump steak?)

Notwithstanding the above, there are few more wonderful experiences than that twilight approach in silky smooth air at the end of a big day of fun flying with just enough light left to see the lazy wind sock and the fading western glow still ablaze with colour.

That?s why we do this aeroplane thing.

Gerry in Oz.:)
 
night

In my first 1000 hrs of flying i only had 15 hrs of night in my second 1000hrs of flying i had a twin Aerostar and added 2oohrs of night flying and enjoyed flying at night but always had that fog thing in the back of my head .AS i work on my third 1000hrs after 400 hrs of RV time I'd have to say Id rather fly at night than launch in early morning fog in my RV done it a couple times and dont look forward to it again.
Bob
 
WOW! Either I am a bird or a fool but I LOVE to fly at night!

Nice knowin' yah!

It is so quiet and peaceful! I love it!

I must be a ticking time bomb!?!

I really like the serene atmosphere. The Boston frequencies really quiet down and you can enjoy the flight. The stars are out and the radio takes on a different tone. It is cool!!!

:) CJ
 
Night flight in any single engine airplane exceeds my risk tolerance

I used to fly single engine turbine helicopters at night as a job. But an engine failure in a helicopter is much more manageable than an engine failure in an airplane. I practiced night touchdown autorotations and with experience could perform one with little to no ground run depending on the wind. Even if I hit something after touchdown it would be a low energy event.

Not the same trying to land an RV airplane at or above stall speed someplace you have never seen before .. Unless you are "lucky" enough to land on a road the outcome will likely not be very pleasant. It is that pesky physics formula mass x velocity squared.

If you think engines don't fail, read the monthy NTSB incident reports. There are plenty of engine failures every month. An engine failure during the day is a completely different event then one at night. It is just too much risk for me to accept.
 
It's been a while, but I do love to fly at night.

That said, I have an interesting memory from a night flight some years back.

On a night flight from San Diego to Sacramento (roughly over Bakersfield), some unseen clouds found me, and I was totally enveloped in the black soup. Since I was on flight following radar service, and since I had recently received my IFR rating, the situation was entirely managable and it was an otherwise uneventful flight. (Makes you wonder, though, about the advisablilty of VFR-only pilots flying at night.)

(The -7A I'm building will be IFR and night capable, and importantly, that includes an altitude-holding ap.)

.
 
1 motor, mountains and night...3 strikes for me. I only put lights on my 7 so I could leave early and return at dusk. Monday was the first time I landed with the runway lights on. Found out I need to adjust my taxi light.;)
 
I do local night flights all the time. I only fly VFR when there are clear skies and no adverse weather within 100 miles. Night flying offers a beautiful view of the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul. I never do cross-country trips at night or in the dark. Only local hops. My favorite is KANE-21D-KSTP-KANE. Its a round robin route that takes me around the east side of the cities. I'm up for an hour and I'm night current when I'm done.
I have a tendency to do a lot of night flying in the winter as opposed to the summer. The reason...if I lose the engine I have 10000 lakes to land on. You won't find me out much at night in the summer.
 
I don't mind flying at night, but like somebody else said here, I usually sleep at night. My favorite night flight was a couple years ago doing the big cross country to Oshkosh with my 10-year old son. We planned a dusk landing at Lamar, Kansas but ended up weather diverting to Garden City, pitch black night, no moon. My son kept saying how cool it was hunting for a good place to land in the dark. Crazy kid.

My other favorite night flight was over Iraq on a moonless night. It was very easy to see the anti-aircraft artillery muzzle flashes way down on the ground, which gave us plenty of time to move our airplanes before the detonations at our altitude. That's when night is really your friend. ;)
 
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Single engine at night should be found in the dictionary unders "suicide"

My first post was a little blunt (as usual) so I thought I would clarify.

Flying at night is fantastic, usually smooth air and fantastic views, I have flown at night many times in the past. I also agree with the hour before sunrise and after sunset as great tiimes to fly so my post is not about it being fun or a great view its just about my view on safety or risk as others have put it. Engine failure anytime is a bad situation but a night its magnified many times. I still believe single engine at night should be avoided but if you do it and loose your engine remember to turn off your landing light, you probably wont like what you see (just kidding).

Pat
 
Surprise

This thread really surprises me. I assumed everyone flew at night. It is my favorite time to fly. I am IR so I hadn't seen any difference in risk between putting down through a layer during the day, overflying water (Bahamas) or finding a spot at night.
As an instrument pilot you always know where you are. Even VFR the GPS and VOR are set so that I can get back to the runway with no visual.
I just don't see the difference.
Keep in mind that I am in Florida where evrything is flat.
 
I just don't see the difference.

The ability to see power lines over the road you are thinking of landing on, the ability to determine the nature/texture of the field you are about to land in, the ability to see ruts, rocks, stumps, logs etc. in your proposed landing area.

If you crunch in at night you are less likely to be observed by someone who can render aid and search and rescue will be delayed/hampered by darkness.

Plus the illusions and perception problems associated with night flying:

http://www.aoa.org/x5352.xml

Many differences the problem is you just can't see them.
 
yes i fly at night. with two engines burning jet-a, triple redundant systems, and a competent FO. My RV-4 has 1 night landing on it.

It is a personal choice. when I was young and single the added risk factor was not the consideration it is now with a wife and kids.

life is about choices, sometimes you have to, or want to take the extra risk. for me I do not have to fly a single engine airplane unless I want to, so I choose to limit the risk as much as I can and still enjoy what I do. YMMV

bob burns

RV-4 N82RB
 
Commercial Rating

Over 2,700 total flight hours and only 21.2 night hours in 30-years of flying. 5.8 night hours last 3-months only for Commercial Rating preparation. Three of the night flights was at 10,500 or 9,500 over the mountains between LA, Bakersfield, and LA. (BFL south one night heading home and round trip LA to BFL another night with an instructor.) Yes I am IR and will sometimes fly an IFR approach in VFR conditions looking out the window when night flying.

I was always nervous about flying at night. I found the night hours the last 3-months to be just as enjoyable as day flight. I am no longer nervous about night flying but still am a lot more cautious than I would be during the day. The aircraft and pilot must be PERFECT for any night flight.

IMHO, the only way you will become comfortable with night flying is to carefully select perfect nights and go do it.
 
Over 2,700 total flight hours and only 21.2 night hours in 30-years of flying. 5.8 night hours last 3-months only for Commercial Rating preparation. Three of the night flights was at 10,500 or 9,500 over the mountains between LA, Bakersfield, and LA. (BFL south one night heading home and round trip LA to BFL another night with an instructor.) Yes I am IR and will sometimes fly an IFR approach in VFR conditions looking out the window when night flying.

I was always nervous about flying at night. I found the night hours the last 3-months to be just as enjoyable as day flight. I am no longer nervous about night flying but still am a lot more cautious than I would be during the day. The aircraft and pilot must be PERFECT for any night flight.

IMHO, the only way you will become comfortable with night flying is to carefully select perfect nights and go do it.

How could I not chime in when my mentor just did....what Gary said :) I have nearly 160 hours of (real) night flight in our RV with most of it night flights home from Las Vegas ("IFR" via I-15), Phoenix ("IFR" via I-10) and countless dinner flights to Santa Monica (over the mountains for about 8 minutes).

The most memorable was on New Year's Eve 2001 (months after 9/11) from Binghamton (NY) to Leesburg (near DC). The plane has no idea it's night time...then again, I've been hit by (2) drunk drivers and shot at driving on the freeway so the flying part doesn't bother me, day or night.

Flying any airplane at any time is not safe (look it up);

safe
adj. saf·er, saf·est
1. Secure from danger, harm, or evil.
2. Free from danger or injury; unhurt: safe and sound.
3. Free from risk; sure: a safe bet.

Flying is all about managing risk, and each person has to decide how much risk they are willing to manage. It's a personal choice, and there is no right or wrong answer. What would your life be like trying to live risk-free? Can't happen. Not in a plane, not in a car, not in life. Manage risk and enjoy life :D

Gary said it and I totally agree: "The aircraft and pilot must be PERFECT for any night flight."

Rosie...who flies at night and over the mountains and over the oceans...
 
I have a fair number of hours night flying, it is really beautiful to fly at night over a big city (Minneapolis). That being said, I no longer fly much at night because the thought of a forced landing in an area that is pitch black but full of unseen trees and other obstacles gives me the willies.

Everyone has their own threshold of exposure to risk. When I was younger mine was higher.
 
Midnight flight from Fullerton to Sonoma county many times..... You are not alone above the 5. What an amazing view all the way.
 
I rarely fly at night for all of the reasons previously mentioned. The outcome of a forced landing on a pitch black VFR night is likely to be fatal. I would rather fly day low IFR than night VFR in single engine. At least with day low IFR, unless there is fog down to the deck, you will have a moment to make last second corrections that may affect the outcome of the forced landing. Such is not the case with pitch black night VFR. I do occasionally fly at night when there is a full moon out. That I think would give me enough light to make the outcome not so ugly.

Engine out procedure for night ops: Turn on your landing light. If you don't like what you see, turn landing light off.
 
I do occasionally fly at night when there is a full moon out. That I think would give me enough light to make the outcome not so ugly.

True. Reminds me of a little incident my brother had in a 172 some 20+ years ago... an engine failure at night over the hills of Pennsylvania. As I recall it was a high overcast night, but there was a thin layer of snow on the ground, so there was juuust enough light reflected from a small town a few miles away to see few large patches of snow here and there. Large patches means clearing, dark means trees. He headed for a white patch... as he was drifting down, out of the corner of his eye his saw (or more accurately, sensed) a high tension power line in front. He traded a bit of airspeed for altitude, cleared the lines, then back down to the field... it was gonna be a greaser until the left wing hit a tree. Oops. A little cartwheel, but he was down and walked away with a cut on his forehead. He would've gotten away without a scratch, but his shoulder harness was unhitched and he didn't have time to re-secure.

He was one lucky b@stard; the next morning, out at the field, the snow had melted away...
 
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