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Power Corrupts...

Toobuilder

Well Known Member
No, this is not a political thread.

The RV has been a bit neglected since the Rocket joined the stable, so today's chores included exercising the airplanes a bit. This is the first time I've had the opportunity to fly the Rocket and RV back to back. What an eye opener. While the Rocket does not seem all that incredible any longer, the RV seems downright slow. Even with min fuel, a cold day and solo, this 200 HP RV felt like it could hardly get out of its own way - almost toy like.

I guess I'm going to have to win the lotto for my next airplane...

What have I done?!
 
And I thought I was burning up the sky

with my 169 KTAS RV-6A this morning! Wow, that Rocket must be fast to put to shame a 200HP RV-8!
 
It's all what you get used to ......

Having flown an Extra 300 for years ( also a Sukhoi 26 interavia SP-95, and a Pitts Model 12) I can tell you that a Rocket just doesn't compare well. The Extra is fast, has a real symmetrical wing, has a 400 degree roll rate, a plus and minus 10G load rating and has never had a structural in flight failure. It has room for two and plenty of ramp appeal. The Rocket is a great airplane but has compromises in all those areas. You can buy a mid wing 300 for the same or less than the price of a Rocket so it is probably the best value for a fun ride on the planet!

Having said all that, I would thoroughly enjoy a Rocket for what it is! Just as I enjoy the RV-7A that I currently have. Most every airplane I have flown, I have enjoyed (maybe that old musketeer not so much). Just what you get used to ......

Not looking to stir a hornets nest
 
Having flown an Extra 300 for years ( also a Sukhoi 26 interavia SP-95, and a Pitts Model 12) I can tell you that a Rocket just doesn't compare well. The Extra is fast, has a real symmetrical wing, has a 400 degree roll rate, a plus and minus 10G load rating and has never had a structural in flight failure. It has room for two and plenty of ramp appeal. The Rocket is a great airplane but has compromises in all those areas. You can buy a mid wing 300 for the same or less than the price of a Rocket so it is probably the best value for a fun ride on the planet!

Having said all that, I would thoroughly enjoy a Rocket for what it is! Just as I enjoy the RV-7A that I currently have. Most every airplane I have flown, I have enjoyed (maybe that old musketeer not so much). Just what you get used to ......

Not looking to stir a hornets nest

I don't doubt any of what you are saying, but in all fairness, no one can build an Extra, piece meal as they can afford it. And since you have to go out an buy a finished one, I bet it would require quite a bit more extra cash compared to the Rocket.
Edit: just did a quick search... looks like an extra would set you back at least double, and in some instances triple what building/buying a Rocket would.
Not as fair of a comparison as the Rocket to an RV IMHO.
 
Having flown an Extra 300 for years ( also a Sukhoi 26 interavia SP-95, and a Pitts Model 12) I can tell you that a Rocket just doesn't compare well...

In all fairness, the Extra and Rocket are completely different machines. The Extra is a hard core acro machine, the Rocket is a home brewed hot rod. The airborne equivalent of a 454 Big block in a Chevy Vega... Heck, my Hiperbipe would rip the lungs out of any Rocket (or RV) in a turning dogfight. But that's not the point.

As for speed, I'm pretty sure a Rocket will run away and hide from the Extra in cruise. That fat wing just hits a wall. And this is why the 330LT has a semi- symmetrical wing - to eke a little better cruise speed out of it.

Finally, tell me where to get a Extra 300 with less than 60 hours on the clock for less than $100k, and I'm all ears.

But you are right that it's all a matter of perspective.
 
We love Rockets at VAF.

Just for comparison, I have run fuel efficiency tests and I get about 22 mpg at 170 KTAS, which is comparable to my RV-9A at 160 KTAS. Therefore, the Rocket is the environmentally responsible choice :)
 
What have I done?!

OK, you talked me into it. You can park your RV-8 up north and I'll keep her well fed for you! I'll fly her down twice a month so you can pass me, out turn and out climb me too in ACM, and I won't even complain. It's the least I can do. :p
 
May have one more hot rod!

Couldn't agree more about hard core acro versus
Hot Rod but i used mine for both activities if i just
wanted to sport fly. Cruised at about 170 knots on 13 gallons.
Would go a little faster but you are right it ran into a wall. Good
thing on a vertical down line! You can buy a straight 300 mid wing
for $150 - $170k. ( not an L model) That seems like not a bunch more
$'s than a Rocket.
Anyway, i will probably have one more of one of them before i
have to go light sport:(! Yes i know they r great also...
More time, more $'s, more fun!!
 
EXTRA VS ROCKET

Well if you guys wanna have a look..

Here's a video posted by Simon Drouin on Youtube.( He 's on VAF from time to time )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu_2ChkPESQ

He owns both an Extra & a Rocket ( since sold ) The other pilot on his wing is Michel Cliche AC B-767 pilot and former Snowbirbs lead solo. So station keeping is not really a problem ..

Michel told me that he had to asked Simon a few times on the back side of the loop to reduce power as the Rocket was running away from him...

Enjoy

Bruno
 
Hey Mike - I know what you mean!

I have been saying this every since Tsam was finished - don't go fly a -3 unless you are ready to commit to building or buying because it will ruin you for anything else! When I get back in my beloved -8 after goign for a romp in Tsam, I feel like I am driving a truck (a nice truck, for sure - but still a truck....).
 
While I'm sure there are plenty of airplanes that are more delightful to fly than a Rocket, the airplane definitely resonates with my "too much power is just right" mentality. Perhaps this explains why I have a garage full of ill handling 60's American Muscle cars and my idea of a "sports car" is a 450+ HP Corvette rather than a Miata or Honda S2000. No, the nose heavy, 260 HP RV-4 is just about right for this simpleton....
 
Comparison

Pros and Cons all over the place make it feel like apples and oranges sometimes, each has a mission. Although after getting used to my RV-3 with 172 hp, the next time I hopped into a high wing spam can I wanted to cry. Here I was trying to compare the next best thing to the Space Shuttle to a trainer... Like comparing supermodels to frumpy old people. Completely different. DON'T fly a -3 unless you have permission from the significant other to buy it on the spot. Rockets are supermodels for sure, RV's seem to do everything well and spam cans are great for trainers. Power does corrupt.... but so does lightness and responsiveness :)
(Legal disclaimer - there is definitely a time and a place for spam cans - and I certainly do enjoy slow flight and frogging around just relaxing but I had to choose between an RV and a spam can for financial reasons - can't justify both, and the RV won.) I did get a -9 tail kit though to start building something I can teach my son to fly in though.....
 
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I am starting to swing the other way

While the Rocket does not seem all that incredible any longer, the RV seems downright slow. Even with min fuel, a cold day and solo, this 200 HP RV felt like it could hardly get out of its own way - almost toy like.

When I get back in my beloved -8 after goign for a romp in Tsam, I feel like I am driving a truck (a nice truck, for sure - but still a truck....).

Having said all that, I would thoroughly enjoy a Rocket for what it is! Just as I enjoy the RV-7A that I currently have. Most every airplane I have flown, I have enjoyed (maybe that old musketeer not so much). Just what you get used to ......

I'll take the other side of this discussion. While I totally agree that "power corrupts", as I get older I have started to appreciate the finer points of "Slowing down and enjoying life". After flying my RV I still enjoy going up in my C-140. Nothing beats putting around at 80 mph on a warm summer evening flying low and slow over the river, soaring like the birds.

Variety can be the spice of life.
 
Having flown an Extra 300 for years ( also a Sukhoi 26 interavia SP-95, and a Pitts Model 12) I can tell you that a Rocket just doesn't compare well. The Extra is fast, has a real symmetrical wing, has a 400 degree roll rate, a plus and minus 10G load rating and has never had a structural in flight failure. It has room for two and plenty of ramp appeal. The Rocket is a great airplane but has compromises in all those areas. You can buy a mid wing 300 for the same or less than the price of a Rocket so it is probably the best value for a fun ride on the planet!

I don't think there's any comparison between a Rocket and Extra 300. The Rocket's a whole lot faster, more fuel efficient, can takeoff/land much shorter, much better climb performance, weighs about 250 lbs less on the same power, and stalls about 10 mph slower. It's like saying an RV-3 doesn't compare well to a One Design. They're entirely different airplanes. Like the Extra, the One Design has better pure aerobatic performance if the ONLY thing you care about is aerobatics, but the Rocket/RV beats the **** out of the Extra/One Design in every other way, including cost. And which Extra 300 have you seen a 400 deg/sec roll rate in? I'd like to see video of that. :)
 
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Note to all: this thread is not meant to disparage other aircraft - just voicing my observations. The RV-8 is a great airplane and I have a lot of fun outrunning Mooneys and Bonanzas. Additionally, I love to fly the simple stuff like L-3's, Cubs, Citabrias, etc. I'm only commenting on the amazing quickness with which our perspective changes as we adapt to something new. The Rocket has the best power to weight of any aircraft I've flown yet, and it just so happens that the resulting performance is a very obvious tactile sensation. Too much power is a lot of fun, but unfortunately it quickly becomes the "new normal"... Hence, my thread.
 
s2000

While I'm sure there are plenty of airplanes that are more delightful to fly than a Rocket, the airplane definitely resonates with my "too much power is just right" mentality. Perhaps this explains why I have a garage full of ill handling 60's American Muscle cars and my idea of a "sports car" is a 450+ HP Corvette rather than a Miata or Honda S2000. No, the nose heavy, 260 HP RV-4 is just about right for this simpleton....

You're the first person I've ever read who knows what a S2000 is. I owned one for 10 years. What a sweet handling car. I raced a Miata for quite a while and always wished she had another 100hp. Someday I would love to race a big American Muscle Corvette.
 
I don't think there's any comparison between a Rocket and Extra 300. The Rocket's a whole lot faster, more fuel efficient, can takeoff/land much shorter, much better climb performance, weighs about 250 lbs less on the same power, and stalls about 10 mph slower. It's like saying an RV-3 doesn't compare well to a One Design. They're entirely different airplanes. Like the Extra, the One Design has better pure aerobatic performance if the ONLY thing you care about is aerobatics, but the Rocket/RV beats the **** out of the Extra/One Design in every other way, including cost. And which Extra 300 have you seen a 400 deg/sec roll rate in? I'd like to see video of that. :)

Mid wing, 2 place, Extra 300. This plane has been fitted with a new wing that has full span ailerons (with an even faster roll rate) since Rocky owned it. Sorry, there's no video of the roll rate after the new wing was installed, but it's definitely faster.

http://youtu.be/4yY5Q_63z8A?t=31s
 
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Heck I thought any good pilot would know what a S2000 was when the weather was too bad to fly...
 
Michael
Welcome to the world of rockets. I have been flying various versions for 15 years and now have over 1500 hours of wonderful rocket adventures. The take off and climb is something that never gets boring. My son lives about 1600 nm from my home and the rocket makes that trip possible in a day.
I get better mileage then my pickup truck and if I want to slow down to RV9 speeds, (Though I do not know why anyone would want to), I can get 150knots at 6 gph.
I have owned and built two HRIIs, one sport wing F1 and my current ride, a F1 with the EVO wing. It is absolutely my most favorite airplane ever and I regularly file for 210 knots TAS over 10,000' burning 11.2 gph.
Rockets are not as rare as they were when I built my first one, it was the 18th HRII to fly and until that time I had only seen them in pictures. I was flying my delightful RV4 when I heard about the Harmon and it seemed to have everything that I wished I had in my RV4, wider fuse, greater load, longer gear legs, and more power. You can never have too much power.
I hope you have as much fun as I have had with these amazing airplanes.
 
The -3 doesn't compare to the Rocket very well. It compares well to other RV's. Not even close to a Rocket. :)

Super-8's compare more closely. I've flown all three and the Rocket wins over the Super-8 by a hair.

Extra 300 is neat but has a totally different mission and is not practical for travelling. I've had one flight in one and I was pretty quickly over it.

The power is intoxicating yet practical.
 
Heck I thought any good pilot would know what a S2000 was when the weather was too bad to fly...

If only I had a dime for every time some guy told me he liked my Miata! I finally gave up correcting. Our Miata race car was a lot of fun but my S2 street car would easily blow it away on the curves and straights. Plus the sound of a car spinning 9k rpm is really sweet.
It sounds like the Rocket is a similar sensory experience.
 
Michael,

Congrats on the Rocket! Have ya chased Coach around in his yet? ;) Look forward to seeing your new steed, and chasing you around in it too!

Corrupted you are…they're fine machines. It is fun to see the expression when you take a buddy up, and push in the power on takeoff. The reaction is typically one word…"whoa!" Everything Tom Martin and others said about 'em is spot on! Just flew Boss Mark's F1-EVO, and I said whoa! :D

Of course, I haven't met an RV I didn't like yet! They get a lot of "whoa's" too!

For Pooner…I think the way to not "get over" a 300 so fast is to get over it, then under it, then over it, then under it…then...well, you know what I mean! :p

I'm game for a comparison test between and 300 and a Super Six…any takers for a ride swap? Rockets and 300's may be apples and oranges, but fruit salad is good for ya…right? ;)

And Larry and Eddy…make it 3 S2000 fans…I'm hunting for a good one now! :)

See ya out there Michael!

Cheers,
Bob
 
Truck

When I get back in my beloved -8 after goign for a romp in Tsam, I feel like I am driving a truck (a nice truck, for sure - but still a truck....).

Hey Paul,

I remember that ride you gave me in your truck. It was something awesome after driving around in a 737 all day. Thanks again! and best to you and Louise on the move and build.

Mark
 
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Michael,

Congrats on the Rocket! Have ya chased Coach around in his yet? ;) Look forward to seeing your new steed, and chasing you around in it too!

Corrupted you are?they're fine machines. It is fun to see the expression when you take a buddy up, and push in the power on takeoff. The reaction is typically one word?"whoa!" Everything Tom Martin and others said about 'em is spot on! Just flew Boss Mark's F1-EVO, and I said whoa! :D...

Thanks Bob.

Coach dropped by Saturday morning while I was driving the RV... That flight was the impetus for this thread in fact. We have not flown Rocket to Rocket yet, but I know that's coming. He's all on fire to get me properly trained in formation flying.

And yes, Whoa! is right... I took another buddy for a flight yesterday. He's a former "naval aviator" and flew fighters back in the day. His current ride is a 150 hp T-18. Needless to say, starting the Rocket ride with a 500 foot ground roll and 45 degree climb at 3000 feet per minute got his attention.
 
+1 for the Rocket. After 350 hours in mine, I have a hard time imagining a better all-around, fun, useful, responsive, inexpensive airplane.

Alas, my wife and kids want SBS seating, so it's a 200hp RV-6 next.
 
Kind of reminds me...

If only I had a dime for every time some guy told me he liked my Miata! I finally gave up correcting. Our Miata race car was a lot of fun but my S2 street car would easily blow it away on the curves and straights. Plus the sound of a car spinning 9k rpm is really sweet.
It sounds like the Rocket is a similar sensory experience.

Of my Sebring experiences, the smell of Castrol, GT40's, Chapparrals, 12 cyl Ferraris, Dick Smothers, Paul Newman, etc. back in my 20's :(
 
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