mike in phx
Active Member
It really depends on what you want to do this is not a car turbo kit this is built to work in a aviation world with the stress that means good parts but complete it can be done for $12000 + install but it really depends
Van's Air Force
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RV-6 Turbo
- Thread starter mike in phx
- Start date
mike in phx
Active Member
Flying high
So after a lot of testing and running flawlees it was time to run at 17500 feet just to se what i could get for mp at this alt i climed right up there testflight was only one hour
It just runs very nice and fast
Have a good 4th of july
Mike
So after a lot of testing and running flawlees it was time to run at 17500 feet just to se what i could get for mp at this alt i climed right up there testflight was only one hour
It just runs very nice and fast
Have a good 4th of july
Mike
Mike there is a class for you in the AirVenture Cup
ref: www.airventurecup.com. The race this year is from Mitchell, SD to an airport near Oshkosh, then recover at Fond Du Lac(?) and group fly into OSH.
Bob Axsom
ref: www.airventurecup.com. The race this year is from Mitchell, SD to an airport near Oshkosh, then recover at Fond Du Lac(?) and group fly into OSH.
Bob Axsom
mike in phx
Active Member
Air race
Sure sounds fun bob would love to go work will dictate if posible the plane is ready
Fuelflow question how much fuel does a o 360 burn at 2700 rpm with 27.7 mp @ 98% mine takes 13.1
And to all the guys out there i have read about vne and flutter til i turned blue
I do thank you for your concern
We all turn out to be test pilots in the first 25 to 40 hours some of us just keep testing the limits but done the right way
And we will get thru it safely
You just cant find limits on the ground in your hangar and it takes a long time to work up to the most extreme limits
Babysteps til you find your personal limits
Sure sounds fun bob would love to go work will dictate if posible the plane is ready
Fuelflow question how much fuel does a o 360 burn at 2700 rpm with 27.7 mp @ 98% mine takes 13.1
And to all the guys out there i have read about vne and flutter til i turned blue
I do thank you for your concern
We all turn out to be test pilots in the first 25 to 40 hours some of us just keep testing the limits but done the right way
And we will get thru it safely
You just cant find limits on the ground in your hangar and it takes a long time to work up to the most extreme limits
Babysteps til you find your personal limits
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Mike, I agree with you regarding testing everything performance wise... Except for pushing to the edge of a flutter margin. All professional test pilots know this. With flutter, you can't push to the edge and stop when you start getting close.
It either flutters or it doesn't. If it does, you probably need to just about 100% plan on exiting the airplane.
I also agree that we are all test pilots in the first 25-40 hrs, but there is one big difference... all those hrs are flying within a flight envelope that has been pretty well proven by thousands of RV's having flown 10s of thousands of hours. This high alt., high speed flying you are doing, could very possible be a first for RV-6 to do so. Ever.
In my mind, that makes it quite different.
mike in phx
Active Member
It just proves vans got it right a very solid platform to build and fly
And again thanks for your concern
And again thanks for your concern
mike in phx
Active Member
Heres one just for fun
And then lower alt
Fuelflow is just how much do you want to burn
And then lower alt
Fuelflow is just how much do you want to burn
mike in phx
Active Member
After ajustments to the fuel injectors my egts are alot closer
This is after getting to alt leaning for cruise
This is after getting to alt leaning for cruise
ChiefPilot
Well Known Member
That's great that you've read about it, but what have you done about it? Any changes to better accommodate the high speed? Did you perform a flutter analysis of the airframe? At what speed do you expect flutter to be an issue?
Your turbo mods are certainly very impressive, but without the above it really just seems like more TLAR engineering.
mike in phx
Active Member
Wauw thanks for telling me off. Is this experimental category or more mental if it wasnt for tlar engineering nobody would be flying at all. Did The wright brothers get it spot on the first time
It has taken me 1 1/2 years testing to get to the point where i was happy with the system to go to alt and test it. I try to do things as safe as posible so i take it in small increments to get to where the limits are i have had some very smart peoble calculate and advise me on the hole flutter isue and they are very smart. what you have seen here is my limit based on facts, calculations and good advice. I know that there are guys out there that are smarter and has more money than me. This is the second time you have commented on this tread about vne i still wounder if you assume that its all just seat of the pants cowboy style all out flying and that i dont know what this is all about .
I was hoping this was a forum where instead of telling peoble that there hard work and sweat does not mean anything unless you dont experiment.
Instead peoble would appreciate the fact that some one is taking it to a new level. And sharing the results. If you comment again please offer a flutter analysis of the airframe so peoble can se facts. Its so easy to be a nay sayer or to be negative.
The speeds you se here are a max for me at the altitudes i was at. The system can handle this anything above this temperture are the biggest concern.
The system is is built to help out where you are at high alt and need a litle more power to get out of truble and to cruise at higher speeds at alt and compared to fuel burn versus speed the penalty to go 15 kts faster is huge so flying at my max is not for me but i need to know what its capable of.
I would like to be able to share all this in the future with out the negative remarks and again thanks to DR for this board so its possible to share.
If nobody was negative and i just recived it like that i do appologise.
Mike, I think that you'll find that this board has a wide variety of people with a huge depth of backgrounds - from aviation newbie to Experimental Test Pilots. We've got guys with advanced degrees in aeronautical engineering,and folks who just like to tinker. And we've got lots and lots of folks that come here just to learn more all the time. Everyone is welcome, so long as they remain civil.
The posts that caution you about Flutter and flying the airframes well above the tested and/or analyzed flutter speeds are cautioning you, not chewing you out. they are also cautioning those with far less experience than you obviously have not to just ignore limits without carefully examining why they are set. You might very well have done structured flutter testing out to the speeds that you are now seeing with your extra horsepower, and that's great - but without presenting that, you risk others without such rigor and experience from just figuring that you are winging it. Van and his engineers have commented numerous times about the need for caution above the factory sped limits with the airplanes because that is what they were designed and tested for. Folks are interested if you have done work beyond that that could enlarge the knowledge base of the entire RV Community. That is part of the experimental part of this activity - doing the rigorous work that helps us all advance.
This approach is not negative - it is cautionary - and it shows concern for the community. I frequently post on trying something new and get comments from from folks that ask "have you considered....?" I take them in the spirit intended, and use those questions to examine my own work to see if I am operating within a good boundary of common sense and reasonable risk.
Experimenting is not just pushing boundaries - it is about pushing them in ways that acknowledge the risks and works to overcome them.
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smokyray
Well Known Member
On the lighter side...
Guys,
I am enjoying all this engineering speak and experimentation, but as my 8th grade English teacher Mrs. B used to say "you guys need to check your spelling"
Spell check is a wonderful thing...
Fight's on!
Smokey
PS: BTW, having written the RV VNE article, experimentation and going where no man has gone before is noteworthy. However, it is a consideration, trust me.
Guys,
I am enjoying all this engineering speak and experimentation, but as my 8th grade English teacher Mrs. B used to say "you guys need to check your spelling"
Spell check is a wonderful thing...
Fight's on!
Smokey
PS: BTW, having written the RV VNE article, experimentation and going where no man has gone before is noteworthy. However, it is a consideration, trust me.
mike in phx
Active Member
Thanks ray
Danish being my native tunge i dont always spell that well in english but i se you get the point
And the article I know it by heart very well written
pierre smith
Well Known Member
Don't stop.
Mike there are quite a few gearheads like you and me on here as well. I've built two 427 Cobra kits and owned a Pantera and we enjoy reading about your turbo experience.
I enjoy those as well as the Rockets and Super -8's with IO-540's in them, so keep your articles coming.
Thanks,
Mike there are quite a few gearheads like you and me on here as well. I've built two 427 Cobra kits and owned a Pantera and we enjoy reading about your turbo experience.
I enjoy those as well as the Rockets and Super -8's with IO-540's in them, so keep your articles coming.
Thanks,
I have a question on the flutter issue. Looking at the screen shots it appears that the IAS is 150 kts or so. The TAS is 220 or something like that. Since VNE and flutter are related to IAS and not TAS I don't see the concern with flutter here as the IAS is below VNE. Am I missing something?
Nigel
Nigel
Yes, you are missing something. A lot of us missed it along the way, until an article was posted on Vans Aircraft web site. Click on THIS to read the informative article. It is a link to a .pdf that will download. It turns out that flutter is directly related to True Air Speed (TAS), not IAS as we all used to think. Hence the concern in the thread.
dlloyd3
Well Known Member
true vs indicated
Okay, I understand the need to treat use the true airspeed Vne limitation to avoid flutter. What I don't understand is why I have never ever seen this mentioned in any magazine or flight training material regarding certified airplanes. Piper, Beech and Mooney (older, non-turbo) seem to treat Vne as an indicated airspeed limitation.
Okay, I understand the need to treat use the true airspeed Vne limitation to avoid flutter. What I don't understand is why I have never ever seen this mentioned in any magazine or flight training material regarding certified airplanes. Piper, Beech and Mooney (older, non-turbo) seem to treat Vne as an indicated airspeed limitation.
Tandem46
Well Known Member
That, too, is addressed in the linked article above. Some airplanes have a barber pole on the airspeed indicator that points to Vne and that pole decreases with altitude to account for lower indicated/higher true. The Navy T-34C is like this. The normal Vne is 280KIAS and that is where the barber pole points while sitting on the ground. But as you climb towards 25,000ft, that pole begins to decrease. I believe it gets down to around 250KIAS at 25K'. Hope this helps.
Kevin Horton
Well Known Member
It is all a question of how the aircraft is designed, and exactly what it is that requires VNE to be where it is. In general, type-certificated light aircraft have VNEs that are defined as a specific calibrated airspeed value. The manufacturer has shown that the aircraft is free from flutter to VNE + some margin, at all approved altitudes.
mike in phx
Active Member
More high alt test
Today i was just trying to set up a nice high alt cruise and se what i could get non turbo
Non turbo
And 48 % power
Today i was just trying to set up a nice high alt cruise and se what i could get non turbo
Non turbo
And 48 % power
johnny stick
Well Known Member
Vne is important to glider guiders
Well, I had this training during my private pilot glider and during the bi-annual glider reviews. This was a recurring theme during my glider days because gliders frequently run into this high and fast in wave. For power, I guess most instructors figure the generic spam can can't get there anyway so why confuse the students?
Well, I had this training during my private pilot glider and during the bi-annual glider reviews. This was a recurring theme during my glider days because gliders frequently run into this high and fast in wave. For power, I guess most instructors figure the generic spam can can't get there anyway so why confuse the students?
mike in phx
Active Member
Mpg with turbo
So if you look at mpg and calculate it from true air speed because we dont know where the wind is going to be blowing any given day
@ 17500 feet running 190 kt true mpg is about 24
@ 17500 feet running 162 kt true mpg is about 29
@ 17500 feet running 131 kt true mpg is about 32
This is converting to mph and mpg
Better than most " cars "
So if you look at mpg and calculate it from true air speed because we dont know where the wind is going to be blowing any given day
@ 17500 feet running 190 kt true mpg is about 24
@ 17500 feet running 162 kt true mpg is about 29
@ 17500 feet running 131 kt true mpg is about 32
This is converting to mph and mpg
Better than most " cars "
mike in phx
Active Member
Kdvt to krap via klxv
So wheels up at 5 am going to sturgis for the bike ralley 2 hours and 26 min to leadville got that crossed of on my bucket list and gas was only $4.95 Andy the airport manager was very nice.just for the fuel its worth it to go
During runup i set the map to 26 inches and takeoff was no problem
After that it was on to rapid city total flight time was kdvt klxv krap 4:27
I planned the trip at 180 ktas aopa said 4:26 so i guess it was close
Fuel for 759 nm was 42g
Temp in phx this morning at 5 am 94 rapid city at 4 pm 75
It is so nice to cool off
So wheels up at 5 am going to sturgis for the bike ralley 2 hours and 26 min to leadville got that crossed of on my bucket list and gas was only $4.95 Andy the airport manager was very nice.just for the fuel its worth it to go
During runup i set the map to 26 inches and takeoff was no problem
After that it was on to rapid city total flight time was kdvt klxv krap 4:27
I planned the trip at 180 ktas aopa said 4:26 so i guess it was close
Fuel for 759 nm was 42g
Temp in phx this morning at 5 am 94 rapid city at 4 pm 75
It is so nice to cool off
mike in phx
Active Member
Hope the hail dont hit the Airport
Wauw hail storm close to krap hope the plane is ok
Wauw hail storm close to krap hope the plane is ok
mike in phx
Active Member
Plane was ok
The plane was ok after the hail storm. KRAP to KLXV was just 2:00:35
No sign of andy but we filled up with $4.95 fuel and then bag to KDVT flight time total was 4:38:26 so a little cross wind slowed us down but not bad at all and i got to se mount rushmore small diviation from the curse
On the ground in leadville
The plane was ok after the hail storm. KRAP to KLXV was just 2:00:35
No sign of andy but we filled up with $4.95 fuel and then bag to KDVT flight time total was 4:38:26 so a little cross wind slowed us down but not bad at all and i got to se mount rushmore small diviation from the curse
On the ground in leadville
Better than cars!
I should hope so!!! I haven't heard of any cars that will do 131 kts and still get 32 mpg!!!
I should hope so!!! I haven't heard of any cars that will do 131 kts and still get 32 mpg!!!
Kenny Gene
Well Known Member
Great Stuff Mike!
Great Stuff Mike!! Keep up the great work and ideas. It's brave souls like you that forge a trail and your work helps us all out. I always enjoy reading all your posts,, Keep at it!
Kenny Gene
Wichita, Ks area
294TC Rv7a sold 680 hrs
484TC Rv10 189 hrs
Great Stuff Mike!! Keep up the great work and ideas. It's brave souls like you that forge a trail and your work helps us all out. I always enjoy reading all your posts,, Keep at it!
Kenny Gene
Wichita, Ks area
294TC Rv7a sold 680 hrs
484TC Rv10 189 hrs
mike in phx
Active Member
Getting ready again for sturgis
Getting ready for going to sturgis for bike week made sure i was full of fuel
Getting ready for going to sturgis for bike week made sure i was full of fuel
mike in phx
Active Member
Sturgis trip
Wheels up from dvt at 5am headed for krap and the sturgis bike rally 760 nm
Planed for a noonstop flight but more head wind aloft we stopped in link to get some gas didnt want to cut in to my reserve but 4 hours and 27 min total flight time with flying over mount rushmore and crazy horse must be ok
And my co pilot was partying a little hard at one eyedjacks so on the trip home he turned into no eyed Ryon
Leadville for cheap gas and food
The turbo just works great 0 problems and good performance
Wheels up from dvt at 5am headed for krap and the sturgis bike rally 760 nm
Planed for a noonstop flight but more head wind aloft we stopped in link to get some gas didnt want to cut in to my reserve but 4 hours and 27 min total flight time with flying over mount rushmore and crazy horse must be ok
And my co pilot was partying a little hard at one eyedjacks so on the trip home he turned into no eyed Ryon
Leadville for cheap gas and food
The turbo just works great 0 problems and good performance
Kenny Gene
Well Known Member
Mike,
Great to hear everything is working well and you're getting out. Maybe Sturgis next year!
I retarded my timing another 3 degree's and re-worked my plenum, (took it off) and I'm running CHT's in the 350 to 380's with oil 180 to 210.
Kent
484TC Rv10 282 hrs
Great to hear everything is working well and you're getting out. Maybe Sturgis next year!
I retarded my timing another 3 degree's and re-worked my plenum, (took it off) and I'm running CHT's in the 350 to 380's with oil 180 to 210.
Kent
484TC Rv10 282 hrs
mike in phx
Active Member
Thats good that it is going the rigth way with your temps when are you out here again kent ?
