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A better oops rivet?

vfrazier

Well Known Member
Most builders have seen the "Oops rivets" that allow you to drill up a size to replace a bad rivet. These are great, but drilling up a whole size (from 3/32" to 1/8" for example) enlarges the original rivet hole considerably.

What many builders don't know is that there are "Oops rivets" available that only require drilling up a half size. For a rivet that's been driven, with the usual minor stretching of the rivet hole, this means that drilling up a half size (from 3/32" to 7/64" for example) is really only cleaning up the hole without needlessly enlarging it.

It's kind of a "no-brainer" to not make the rivet hole any bigger than you need to, right? :)

You can get these better oops rivets from Blake. They are available to replace -3 and -4 rivets. Check it out here.

A better Oops rivet option
 
Dang! that is cool.

question, what cleco would you use for a -3 rivet/hole that was "cleaned up" for the fix? silver or gold?
 
Cleco?

Probably dont need a cleco unless you drilled a bunch of adjacent holes 1/2 size over. A 3/32 cleaco might expand enough for that hole too.

Cm
 
Probably dont need a cleco unless you drilled a bunch of adjacent holes 1/2 size over. A 3/32 cleaco might expand enough for that hole too.

Cm

I use oops rivets for installing nut plates. Great trick I learned from Dan Checkoway. Hence the reason for the question.
 
I too am a big fan of setting oops rivets with nut plates. I have found however that if I'm having a tough time setting a rivet in a skin and I've opened up the hole so much I can no longer use an AD3 rivet after drilling a few out, I'll just open the hole a touch more to 7/64" and set an MK319-BS. Down in the tailcone on the RV-7 there were a few tough to set rivets (especially when you are wet setting them) so I do have a couple of these cases back there. It's nice to know there are some mid sized oops rivets, as frankly I haven't touched my batch of -4 sizes oops rivets. I couldn't bear the thought of drilling out that much material to try and set a rivet that will be even harder to set that the one that lead you into the situation in the first place.
Tom.
 
squeeze your own opps rivet

If you have a pneumatic rivet squeeze you can create your own opps rivet for the slightly enlarged hole by first slightly squeezing a rivet outside the hole so that it is slightly fatter and fits the slightly wider hole. Then insert and squeeze fully. This is especially useful if you've drilled out a rivet and made the hole just 1/64 or less bigger.
 
Are you guys using the oversize rivet on everynut plate?

If so why?

Cm

I don't understand either. Are there nutplates that have a #30 hole in them or do you have to drill from 40 to 30? I had to do that a couple times, but it makes the hole pretty close to the edge of the nutplate.
 
Speaking only for myself (but I'm pretty sure this is the same thing AX-O is doing): I use the NAS1097AD-3-X rivets for nutplate attachment. So it's still a #40 hole, but with a smaller countersink needed than if I was using a "regular" flush rivet. The countersink is shallow enough that I generally do it by hand; it just takes a few turns of the deburring tool.
 
Speaking only for myself (but I'm pretty sure this is the same thing AX-O is doing): I use the NAS1097AD-3-X rivets for nutplate attachment. So it's still a #40 hole, but with a smaller countersink needed than if I was using a "regular" flush rivet. The countersink is shallow enough that I generally do it by hand; it just takes a few turns of the deburring tool.

Exactly what I do. Deburring tool will make the proper depth counter sink hole and you can just get away with it in .020 skin if youre wicked careful. Funny thing tho, my last order of 1097s from Vans was 1 lb of rivets. They called me and asked if Id flipped my lid. Clearly I suck at building if I need that many. The young lady had not heard of using them for nutplates, so we had a good laugh. In anycase, that order was my 3rd 1097 order, each bigger than the last and I finally got fed up ordering the things so ordered enough for the next two planes nutplates!
 
If its an oversize rivet?

If its an oversized shank how does it go into the #40 hole on the nutplate and if the head is undersize how does it fill a normal #40 countersink or dimple?

Cm
 
If its an oversized shank how does it go into the #40 hole on the nutplate and if the head is undersize how does it fill a normal #40 countersink or dimple?

Cm

Oversize shank = undersize head. The NAS1097-AD3 3/32" rivets have a smaller head than regular AD3 rivets.
 
Speaking only for myself (but I'm pretty sure this is the same thing AX-O is doing): I use the NAS1097AD-3-X rivets for nutplate attachment. So it's still a #40 hole, but with a smaller countersink needed than if I was using a "regular" flush rivet. The countersink is shallow enough that I generally do it by hand; it just takes a few turns of the deburring tool.

Thanks for the info. Now I have it figured out.
 
If its an oversized shank how does it go into the #40 hole on the nutplate and if the head is undersize how does it fill a normal #40 countersink or dimple?

Cm

Yeah, its oversized for a -2 rivet hole that you goofed on. Except we never build with -2 rivets; we use -3s, 4s and 5s. IOW, it has a 426AD-2 head with a -3 rivet shank.
 
With a small diameter female dimple die, you can dimple the nut plate holes and the skin. I found that doing that actually helps keep the nutplate screw hole aligned with the hole in the skin. No special rivets needed.
 
HOLD ON? I have used the small head oops rivet for nut plates as well for years BUT I think the oops rivets Vince is offering is NOT that rivet. It is a standard head 3/32 or 1/8 size head with a over sized shank. Instead of an 1/8th in shank on a 3/32 head oops rivet it now is available in a smaller than 1/8 shank requiring a smaller oversized hole. If I'm wrong, pound away. :)
 
HOLD ON? I have used the small head oops rivet for nut plates as well for years BUT I think the oops rivets Vince is offering is NOT that rivet. It is a standard head 3/32 or 1/8 size head with a over sized shank. Instead of an 1/8th in shank on a 3/32 head oops rivet it now is available in a smaller than 1/8 shank requiring a smaller oversized hole. If I'm wrong, pound away. :)

Thanks Larry. You are exactly correct. I guess I should have made this clear and we could have avoided the thread drift! :rolleyes: My bad.

The rivets in question here are NOT NAS1097 series and are not worth a darn for installing nutplates. They are for fixing a goofed rivet WITHOUT drilling it all the way up to the next rivet size... thereby not needlessly enlarging the rivet hole. A much better fix in my humble opinion.

Mini-Oops Size - Repairs this Rivet - Mini-Oops shank diam. - Original Rivet Diam.

NAS1241AD3-3.... AN426AD3-3.................... 7/64"...........................3/32"
NAS1241AD3-4.... AN426AD3-4.................... 7/64"...........................3/32"
NAS1241AD4-4.... AN426AD4-4.................... 9/64"............................1/8"
NAS1241AD4-5.... AN426AD4-5.................... 9/64"............................1/8"

Clear as mud now!

Sorry about the table format scrunching. I think you can figure it out though.

Anyway, get them from Blake at www.flyboyaccessories.com
 
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Slightly swelling a rivet is helpful in assembly when skins (particularly "formed" shikns) don't fit "exactly."

You can either pre-swell, or insert and "swell" (takes practice). Then follow up by "drawing" the skin together with a bucking bar that's been countersunk with a larger center hole. VERY light, very slow tapping with the rivet gun will pull the skins together and then you can drive the rivet in full.
 
"Pre-swelling" a rivet can be done, but it typically results in the rivet tipping to one side, thus making your efforts for naught because it is likely to continue tipping once you start to drive it. It is possible to do it with care though. I used to do it, but then I found a better, more reliable way to obtain good results. Reliable is good. I like reliable.

The NAS1241AD series of rivets fill an empty hole in your tool arsenal. They are only a few thousandths larger than the typical dimpled hole. That is an important consideration.

For example, if an AN426AD3 rivet is about .093"-.094" diameter, and the corresponding typical dimpled hole is about .104" diameter, you can already see that an AN426AD3 rivet is starting out as a loose fit. Most of the time, this is harmless. However, there are times when you know from experience that getting a perfectly set rivet can be tough. For those times, drilling up (or reaming) to a perfect 7/64" (0.109") diameter, can go a long way towards getting that perfect rivet on the FIRST try if you use the NAS1241AD rivet instead of the loose fitting AN426AD rivet.

And another example, and the reason I posted this info, if you've just drilled out a few AN426AD3 rivets, you'll probably have a 0.110" diameter hole. Maybe a bit bigger if you drilled a wee bit crooked. Guess what? Those NAS1241AD3 rivets (0.109" diameter) will often fit right in the hole with little, if any, clean up with a 7/64" bit.

I didn't present any AD4 rivet examples, but the same ideas apply to them.

In summary:
1) NAS1241AD rivets are useless for installing nutplates.
2) NAS1241AD rivets can be used to repair AN426AD rivets without needlessly enlarging the hole.
3) Once you know where and when to use them, they are the bomb.
 
1/2 Size Oops Rivet

I had a question regarding the overall strength of these rivets compared to a standard -3. The standard 426AD3 rivets that I have from Vans have a factory head diameter of 0.170 in. The NAS1241AD3 (1/2 size oops) rivets that I purchased have a manufactured head of 0.178 in. Since the factory head coverage should be similar, will these 1/2 size oops rivets provide a similar strength to a standard -3 rivet?

The reason I ask is that I have a hole on the corner of my VS at the spar and I am hesitant to use an -4 oops rivet since it is the first rivet in the line. I am considering using a 1/2 size oops here.
 
Vince,

These are cool. Now I feel like I put all those Oops rivets in wrong. This seems like a much better option.

Ray
 
HOLD ON? I have used the small head oops rivet (NAS1097AD) for nut plates as well for years BUT I think the oops rivets Vince is offering (NAS1241AD) is NOT that rivet. It is a standard head 3/32 or 1/8 size head with a over sized shank. Instead of an 1/8th in shank on a 3/32 head oops rivet it now is available in a smaller than 1/8 shank requiring a smaller oversized hole. If I'm wrong, pound away. :)

Larry is correct in pointing out that the NAS1097AD that Van's offers is not the same as the NAS1241AD that Blake sells on www.flyboyaccessories.com Both types have their niche.

NAS1097AD work great for installing nutplates, as many have pointed out, and they can be used to repair a botched rivet with an enlarged hole.

The NAS1241AD can do the same things, but they specifically shine in the fact that you don't usually up-size a botched rivet hole to repair it with one of these.

There are some who like the NAS1241AD rivets for use in areas of higher shear loads, due to their slightly larger shank diameter. I'm not an engineer, so I'll just say "Use what the plans call for".

As a dad, who tries to support his son's business, my best advice for all is to simply buy some of the NAS1241AD rivets from Blake. When you need them, you'll know, and be glad you have them.

An alternate Oops rivet option - NAS1241AD rivets
 
Oops Rivets

Just ran across this thread. I've seen those on Blake's site before but failed to notice they were different from the 1097 series of rivets. Wish I would have found this out sooner; thanks for pointing them out! Charlie
 
The reason I ask is that I have a hole on the corner of my VS at the spar and I am hesitant to use an -4 oops rivet since it is the first rivet in the line. I am considering using a 1/2 size oops here.

I would guess if you have edge distance either would be acceptable.

dave
 
New builder here. The first flush skin rivet that I was tasked with removing didn?t go as planned.

What is the best solution for replacing an AN426AD3-3.5 that was poorly removed resulting in an oversized hole? Half size rivets in the NAS1241 type don?t appear to be produced.
 
New builder here. The first flush skin rivet that I was tasked with removing didn?t go as planned.

What is the best solution for replacing an AN426AD3-3.5 that was poorly removed resulting in an oversized hole? Half size rivets in the NAS1241 type don?t appear to be produced.

1097s are for oversized holes, in your case a AD4 shank with a AD3 head. Buy them longer than you need and cut to length.....
 
squeeze slight

If you don't have any Opps or NAV rivets than you can slightly squeeze an over length rivet making it a little fatter then use it.

For example you can put a -4.0 length rivet into your pneumatic squeezer, close the plungers, turn it to just squeeze slightly past the rivets length, put in the rivet and squeeze it to -3.5 length. It will be slightly fatter. Now use it in the slightly over-sized hole. You can do this with rivets close in size. If you try to squeeze a really long rivet like -6 down to a -3 it will bend.
 
Another vote for "fat" rivets

If you don't have any Opps or NAV rivets than you can slightly squeeze an over length rivet making it a little fatter then use it.
+1 for Steve's post!

This is one my favorite riveting "cheats". It doesn't take much of a squeeze to fatten a -4 or -4 rivet enough to fill a slightly-oversized hole. As a side benefit, the rivet sets a lot easier because the rivet doesn't have as much of an opportunity to clinch or bend over as it expands.

ds
 
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