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Got my LODA for BFR already!

Mine showed up today too, from the Atlanta FSDO. I was all happy.
Then I noticed this:

FSDO Manager Signature FSDO Date

Right above, where it says "FSDO Manager Signature"?
There's no signature??
There "is" above the word "FSDO",----- "ATL FSDO"---- Maybe that suffices as the signature?? (I tried to copy and paste so all could see it exactly, but you know how some stuff just doesn't copy and paste??)
 
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Mine showed up today too, from the Atlanta FSDO. I was all happy.
Then I noticed this:

FSDO Manager Signature FSDO Date

Right above, where it says "FSDO Manager Signature"?
There's no signature??
There "is" above the word "FSDO",----- "ATL FSDO"---- Maybe that suffices as the signature?? (I tried to copy and paste so all could see it exactly, but you know how some stuff just doesn't copy and paste??)

Mine looks like the attached image. It has an electronic signature.
 

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Tossing another one into the thread. Just received my LODA this morning, sent application email in mid-day last Saturday. Cincinnati FSDO.
 
How about Tampa FSDO??

Has anyone in the Tampa Bay area received a LODA from the Tampa FSDO yet??
 
Inline responses

Just to add one more data point to this thread, I was denied my LODAs today. I submitted with the information asking for a LODA to take transition training in someone else's airplane and was told they should already have a LODA under the old rules and that I don't need one.

This is correct. The LODA being referenced here is for you to have paid for instruction in your own plane.

I also applied for a LODA for my still under construction airplane and was told to apply after I got my airworthiness cert. Waiting to hear back if they will issue a LODA in conjunction with an airworthiness cert so phase 1 isn't delayed if you're paying someone to ride right seat with the additional pilot program.

Phase I testing is not instruction. If you are looking to get instruction by an addtl pilot during phase I, don't expect a LODA, as the FAA is pretty clear that the AP program is for airframe testing and NOT flight instruction. IF you are just paying the AP to help test, the LODA also doesn't apply, as phase I testing is not instructing. Not saying whether that is legal or not, only that this LODA is not applicable.
 
Inline responses


Originally Posted by agent4573 View Post
Just to add one more data point to this thread, I was denied my LODAs today. I submitted with the information asking for a LODA to take transition training in someone else's airplane and was told they should already have a LODA under the old rules and that I don't need one.

This is correct. The LODA being referenced here is for you to have paid for instruction in your own plane.

I also applied for a LODA for my still under construction airplane and was told to apply after I got my airworthiness cert. Waiting to hear back if they will issue a LODA in conjunction with an airworthiness cert so phase 1 isn't delayed if you're paying someone to ride right seat with the additional pilot program.

Phase I testing is not instruction. If you are looking to get instruction by an addtl pilot during phase I, don't expect a LODA, as the FAA is pretty clear that the AP program is for airframe testing and NOT flight instruction. IF you are just paying the AP to help test, the LODA also doesn't apply, as phase I testing is not instructing. Not saying whether that is legal or not, only that this LODA is not applicable.

I can understand not having the LODA for instruction in someone else's plane, that was clarified in the EAA article and the wording reads correctly in the FAA official release. So I can agree with that decision.

There's specific wording in the EAA article and the FAA official guidance that raises questions about phase 1 though.

"A person may be considered to “operate” an aircraft under the § 1.1 definition without serving as a required flightcrew member or manipulating the controls of the aircraft."

Right now a checkride in an experimental requires a LODA. I'm paying someone to sit in the right seat and watch me fly. He only "operates" the airplane if I mess something up pretty bad, but per the regulations he is "operating" the airplane and receiving compensation. It counts as training because it doubles as a BFR. In phase 1 I'll pay someone to sit in the right seat and watch me fly, he'll only touch the controls if I mess something up pretty bad. So in phase 1, there is a paid pilot with a commercial license getting compensated to "operate" an experimental airplane from the right seat. Seems like it fits all the requirements for a new LODA but now it isn't required even though the other pilot would be in violation of 91.319 "No person may operate an experimental aircraft carrying person or property for compensation or hire" if I don't get a LODA.
 
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Right now a checkride in an experimental requires a LODA..

Pretty sure this is not the case. This week I have been arranging a checkride for my son. One of the DPE's thought this new LODA may be required (I didn't) and checked with the FAA. He confirmed that a LODA is NOT required for a checkride. This makes sense, as there is no instucting during a checkride. It is an evaluation. The DPE is not operating as a CFI, they are operating as a delegate of the FAA to evaluate performance against standards.
 
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I received my LODA early this morning. It contained one error. The FSDO was able to address that directly after a couple of emails back and forth.

I did not use the template, but someone, somewhere in "the system" filled it out based on my email, which is where the error arose. I would suggest using the template now that it is available so as to avoid opportunities for errors.

Overall, my experience has been positive under the circumstances.
 
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Pretty sure this is not the case. This week I have been arranging a checkride for my son. One of the DPE's thought this new LODA may be required (I didn't) and checked with the FAA. He confirmed that a LODA is NOT required for a checkride. This makes sense, as there is no instucting during a checkride. It is an evaluation. The DPE is not operating as a CFI, they are operating as a delegate of the FAA to evaluate performance against standards.

A checkride resets your BFR timeline and a BFR is training, so I don't understand how you can accomplish "not training" activities and have it count towards a training requirement.

The second question on the EAA FAQ page that was linked: I fly an experimental aircraft. How does this change in policy apply to me?

If you are not giving or receiving instruction in the aircraft, this policy does not directly apply to you. Compensating or hiring an individual to fly with you in an experimental aircraft is now considered contrary to the rules. To fly with a compensated or hired CFI, you or the CFI now need a Letter of Deviation Authority (LODA).

It's the second sentence of the answer that I have an issue with. I'm compensating/hiring someone to fly with me in an experimental. Sounds like i just need to find a capable right seat pilot that has a commercial rating but not a CFI and who already has an old LODA allowing him to work around 91.319.
 
For those wondering about how the LODA applies in Phase 1 vs. Phase 2…. If you haven’t seen the actual LODA yet, mine specifically states the LODA is only good in Phase 2 - so forget about using it in Phase 1.

Edit: If I had quoted the rest of the paragraph, the exception to this is that the Additional Pilot Program is permitted by use of the LODA…..so it IS applicable in that situation for Phase 1.


Paul
 
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A checkride resets your BFR timeline and a BFR is training, so I don't understand how you can accomplish "not training" activities and have it count towards a training requirement.
.

Don't mean to be snide, but your lack of understanding doesn't really change anything. The FAA has confirmed this with my DPE (a designated agent of the FAA) and the EAA specifically says it fine in their FAQs. I can't see the EAA just guessing on an issue of this importance. Pretty sure they have a direct line to the FAA.
 
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Compensating or hiring an individual to fly with you in an experimental aircraft is now considered contrary to the rules.

I don't believe anyone has said that. I have only seen information from the FAA regarding compensating someone for "instructing" in your EAB. There is no mention about compensating someone for flying with you outside the realm of instructing. Don't know the legalities of it, but it is not discussed in relation to this recent position statement. From my limited understanding, I can hire a PPL to be my safety pilot for simulated instrument proficiency; Unsure if that pilot needs a commercial, but suspect he does if he is charging me, just like a CFI does. I understand that is also the case with instructing and up untill last week, that was fine too.

Not saying that this won't spiral into greater issues, but untill the FAA specifically states that we can't do something it is the status quo that rules.

Larry
 
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A checkride resets your BFR timeline and a BFR is training, so I don't understand how you can accomplish "not training" activities and have it count towards a training requirement.

The second question on the EAA FAQ page that was linked: I fly an experimental aircraft. How does this change in policy apply to me?

If you are not giving or receiving instruction in the aircraft, this policy does not directly apply to you. Compensating or hiring an individual to fly with you in an experimental aircraft is now considered contrary to the rules. To fly with a compensated or hired CFI, you or the CFI now need a Letter of Deviation Authority (LODA).

It's the second sentence of the answer that I have an issue with. I'm compensating/hiring someone to fly with me in an experimental. Sounds like i just need to find a capable right seat pilot that has a commercial rating but not a CFI and who already has an old LODA allowing him to work around 91.319.


Paul, See the link in 112, just above you. Its from Jack Pelton, Head of EAA. Answers a lot of questions. I know it answered mine, about a CFI for my BFR next month.
 
Springfield (IL) anyone? Updated - they are ALIVE!

Has anyone gotten any contact with the Springfield FSDO lately? I am getting no answers and the operator voicemail is full.

I was just checking (like Larry) to see if they got the memo.

Edit: I left a message with Operations at Springfield and the guy called me back as soon as got back from a project. They only have 3 (three) so far! and he will proceed to process them. I suspect the word is not completely out to the Experimental community. I know there are 8 at a nearby field.

I'll add my completion to the list via edit when obtained.

8/13/21- I had to query originally posted address for my LODA. My 10Friend did this and I followed. Within 2 hours (different responders and different query time) we each got our approved LODA. They both had been approved on July 15, but sat in the system for a few weeks. The Springfield Operation person tried to help. The Manager was unaware that they were not sent out. They got their part done. To their credit they are now working to find out what went wrong and ensure the internal system is working as expected. My LODA comment=CLOSED
 
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For those wondering about how the LODA applies in Phase 1 vs. Phase 2…. If you haven’t seen the actual LODA yet, mine specifically states the LODA is only good in Phase 2 - so forget about using it in Phase 1.

Paul

Interesting. So does it mean the Additional Pilot Program is no longer available since the A/C is officially in Phase 1 and the additional pilot (or test pilot) cannot log time or get compensated? Another can of worm from the new LODA rules.
 
So does it mean the Additional Pilot Program is no longer available since the A/C is officially in Phase 1 and the additional pilot (or test pilot) cannot log time or get compensated? Another can of worm from the new LODA rules.

My LODA is valid during phase one when using the additional pilot program (APP). Here is the verbiage from my LODA with regard to airworthiness requirements of the aircraft in which the training is taking place:

Have completed Phase I flight testing and be operating in Phase II (if applicable) in accordance with the operating limitations made a part of the airworthiness certificate issued for the aircraft, or if in Phase I, may operate in accordance with the Additional Pilot Program identified in FAA Advisory Circular AC 90-116.

Remember that the operating limitations issued to the aircraft must specifically authorize the use of the additional pilot program (APP). Most operating limitations issues within the last couple of years do, but you should check yours to make sure.

Second, the operating limitations specifically state that the APP must be done in accordance with AC 90-116. The AC includes the following:

COMPENSATION. Compensation for the services of a QP or an OP may only be accepted or provided in accordance with the privileges and limitations specified by certificates held by the individuals.

Logging of Training Time. Logging of training time may only be done in accordance with § 61.51(h), Logging training time.

So neither logging of training time or compensation are specifically prohibited by the APP. A look at § 61.51(h) does not reveal anything specific to experimental aircraft, so that is not a restriction.

So it would appear that the LODA does cover compensation of a CFI during phase one when using the APP.
 
Copy of Current Medical Certificate???

I just received an email about my LODA request from the Scottsdale FSDO asking for a copy of my current medical certificate. WHAT? Did anyone else get asked or have to provide that?

Email reads: I am just verifying the information for your LODA request and need a copy of your current medical certificate.
 
I just received an email about my LODA request from the Scottsdale FSDO asking for a copy of my current medical certificate. WHAT? Did anyone else get asked or have to provide that?

Email reads: I am just verifying the information for your LODA request and need a copy of your current medical certificate.

This looks completely extraneous to me. What if the owner is a pre-solo student pilot, who needs the loda to continue his training? He might not have a medical certificate!
 
I just received an email about my LODA request from the Scottsdale FSDO asking for a copy of my current medical certificate. WHAT? Did anyone else get asked or have to provide that?

Email reads: I am just verifying the information for your LODA request and need a copy of your current medical certificate.

No. But not surprising. OKC tells them to do A and the FSDO personnel decide that A is actually A+B. When I got my second AW from the FSDO, I got a long lecture on the need for logging everything properly. I said where is this outlined. He tells me section 41. I later send him a copy of the 2nd paragraph in 41 that states EABs are excluded from this section. He says "Wow, didn't know that. The rules are very confusing." Apparently there is no training or testing on the regs for these guys. WHen I think about the breadth of material I was tested on for the IFR rating, kinda doesn't seem right that they are not held to the same standard.

Probably best not to push this issue too hard, as a medical is required to exercise privileges in most cases and it's not like this is private data that the FAA doesn't have access to anyways. Maybe a nice note saying 50 of my friends already got one and nobody else needed proof of a medical.

Larry
 
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Interesting. So does it mean the Additional Pilot Program is no longer available since the A/C is officially in Phase 1 and the additional pilot (or test pilot) cannot log time or get compensated? Another can of worm from the new LODA rules.

Joe Norris is 100% correct regarding the APP - I cut off my quote too early, and will correct my post - you CAN use the LODA with APP…..
 
In the first line of today's edition, Doug writes: "Sent in my LODA application and received a confirmation less than 60 seconds later. Link to the form below."

Confirmation? Within 60 seconds? I have now sent two requests for a LODA to the same email address Doug references ([email protected]), one by simple email, the other with a completed template.

Why haven't I or others received "confirmation" or, for that matter, any response whatsoever? My requests were submitted last Friday and again on Tuesday. Sorry to say that others receiving LODAs and "confirmations" seem to be exposing a clear lack of consistency when applications are submitted. Why is the FAA dropping the ball for some but completing passes for others?

did you check a spam folder? I too got a confirmation in seconds that was clearly an automated response, so I'm guessing it's just getting blocked by your email software. Still no human response from Minneapolis though...
 
My LODA just arrived. The FAA is doing a great job getting these out. Much faster than I would have expected.
 
I got a request for my address even though I already provided it. Lol A few hours later I had my LODA from the Denver FSDO.
 
Email or template

I sent in the information in a email with no response yet, do you have to use the PDF template?
Figs
 
I sent in the information in a email with no response yet, do you have to use the PDF template?
Figs

I didn't use the template, but that means someone deep in OKC filled it out for me. (It apparently was not the FSDO staff.) Anyway, somewhere in there, the Aircraft Registration and Home Airport designation got transposed, and my LODA was issued in error as a result. The FSDO was able to accommodate the fix after a little back and forth via email, but it's probably worth filling out the template yourself now that it is available, thereby reducing the opportunity for mistakes.

It took six days to receive my LODA, in my case. Without regard to the arguments for or against, a little patience is in order. I'm actually pleasantly surprised at the simplicity and efficiency of the process.
 
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I sent in the information in a email with no response yet, do you have to use the PDF template?
Figs

I also did not get a "received" acknowledgment reply to my email LODA request (did not use the PDF template), but the LODA itself arrived today from the Columbus, OH FSDO just four days after submitting the request (and did not go into any of my Junk/Spam email folders).

Information in the LODA all looks to be accurate and reflects the information provided to the FAA in the application. Good deal.
 
Received my LODA in 5 days

Received my LODA for RV10 in 5 days from Baltimore FSDO. (Digitally signed) Did not use Template but still Not a bad turn around time, I retract any indications of being Unhappy, I am very HAPPY for a Grumpy Old Guy! Ed N16YS :D
 
Just received the LODA.

Request was submitted on Monday.

No template used, just included needed info in email format.
 
I’ll need my BFR by the end of August, so I’m planning plenty of fireside chats at OSH and will plan on being ready. My thoughts so far……. I think the FAA had to do something due to public outcry because of an unfortunate accident or two in other than ‘standard category’ aircraft where an innocent public was involved. For the FAA to separate non standard category aircraft could end up biting them, so they did what they had to do to protect the public while understanding that not all corners of the various non standard categories fit into their main focus in protecting the public - namely our EAB category. Hence the LODA that was obviously well thought out and despite a few isolated teething issues, is working remarkably well. This just started 5 days ago, and the FAA was ready for it. Maybe the local FSDO’s don’t appreciate the extra workload, but they know it’s their job and they will ultimately deal with it. I think this will be a relatively short (2 years) operational necessity, but I think new rules will be written that does what is necessary to protect the public, and still allow a modified version of what we enjoyed before July 12.
 
Reno FSDO, 5 working days for LODA

I submitted my request by email on Monday morning of this week, and the approved document arrived earlier today (Friday) afternoon. No calls, no fuss, no muss. Bureaucratic masterbation.
 

I've been of the opinion for some time that AOPA is out of touch with the EAB segment, preferring to write reviews of multi-million dollar biz jets. I thought the article was very biased anti-faa, and distorted the actual facts. This is a circumstance where the FAA deserves credit for a very fast fix to a situation they did not want anymore than the rest of us.
 
I've been of the opinion for some time that AOPA is out of touch with the EAB segment, preferring to write reviews of multi-million dollar biz jets. I thought the article was very biased anti-faa, and distorted the actual facts. This is a circumstance where the FAA deserves credit for a very fast fix to a situation they did not want anymore than the rest of us.

I can't speak for the entirety of AOPA, but I am acquainted with the author of the article in question and not only is she an aviator, and an aviation attorney, but she is a homebuilder as well and the last time I spoke to her she was inquiring about building or buying an RV. She is on our side. What AOPA put out today is pertinent in light of the number of people in the prior threads who just suggested finding a CFI who would train for free or some other non monetary form of compensation. Really, what it comes down to is that the FAA should have left well enough alone and focused on the issue of the warbird operations giving joyrides commercially but they've opened up a real can of worms thanks to an (unsigned) opinion of the court.
 
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Only been 3 days to be fair, but still no love for me from the Lubbock FSDO.

“Fair” only counts in non-public forums……. The new rule started at 12:01 Monday morning, so you’re right it hasn’t been 5 days, but it will be at midnight tonight, not 3 days, but who cares?? That’s not the point. The point is, it’s refreshing to me that it seems like the FAA has considered us, maybe due to several reasons. We are the fastest growing part of GA, we are about to encounter the biggest aviation event on earth and it’s center on the Experimental Aviation Association. They don’t want that kind of negative exposure. If it wasn’t for EAB, GA would look very different today.
 
Really, what it comes down to is that the FAA should have left well enough alone and focused on the issue of the warbird operations giving joyrides commercially but they've opened up a real can of worms thanks to an (unsigned) opinion of the court.

I think this criticism is rather unfair. The FAA DID focus on the Warbird operation, and told them to cease and desist. It was the Warbird operation that appealed the FAA complaint to the court. And it was the judge who, while upholding the FAA's action against Warbird, pointed out the FARs were not consistent with the FAA's previous interpretation of them. And now all the lawyers seem to agree with the judge. I think the FAA deserves credit for a fix in record time. And if you want to point fingers, it's the guys who think they can skirt the law, whether just hoping not to get caught, or hoping some crazy argument can hold sway. You might note that the new LODA limits CFI compensation to "fair market value". This is because some guys tried to 'game the system', saying the airplane was free, instruction was $500/hr. These types of things often come back to bite everyone.
 
Impressive turnaround

Sent in request 7/13 around Noon, received signed LODA first thing this morning from Atlanta FSDO.
 
It's been a week since I submitted a LODA request email.... no LODA yet. I've never personally dealt with the Minneapolis FSDO but it's only been a week.



EDIT: I swear.....literally 10 minutes after I posted this, I got the LODA from the Minneapolis FSDO in my email



...
 
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1 Week

Sent in my request monday 7/12. No template, just the email with the info requested for OWNER.
Received their receipt confirmation by return email same day.
Received my LODA this morning 7/19 from the ATL FSDO, one of the largest for sure.

Their LODA administrator was probably out last week. Response time pretty good for Uncle Sam.
 
According to today’s AvWeb article, a quote they attribute to AOPA states, “… it could take months or years to process the thousands of applications that will flood the agency”.

More hysteria ….
 
According to today’s AvWeb article, a quote they attribute to AOPA states, “… it could take months or years to process the thousands of applications that will flood the agency”.

More hysteria ….

lot of fear mongering, FAA bashing and bad data in that article. The info in this thread proves the contrary.

Larry
 
Great service

From the Orlando FSDO. Sent my e-mail Tuesday and received my LODA on Saturday.
 
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