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RV-8 Engines.

FMI68

Member
All,
In my continuing search to find a suitable -8 (since I don't expect Santa to taxi one up under my tree this year), I'm noting various engine types.
I'm very new to the RV community, infancy stage as I have yet to even fly an RV.
So this morning I'm reaching out to discuss the RV-8 engine variations I'm noting. Lycoming being the general consensus of course, Franklin, Rotary, Continental., etc.
Currently, the RV I'm leaning towards has a Cont IO470C - its a beautiful RV8, I've met and visited with the owner and the price is right.
Wondering if a few of you with various engine types wouldn't mind chiming in on your experience. Pros/cons of a Lyc. v Cont. v Franklin, etc.
Performance, Reliability, MX., etc.
Having flown behind many Lycomings and Continentals historically, I'm familiar with both operationally but now looking to BUY my 1st airplane and thus the request.
I realize a great deal depends on what you want to do with your RV.
For me, in my late 40's this is for fun as I still fly for a living. Something to spend afternoons conducting some fun aerobatics with my buds and be able to take the wife for short x-c's to see family and friends.
There is a WEALTH of information on this forum.. I'm sure this has been discussed at great length historically but am putting this out to get up to date/current information and opinions.

Thanks to everyone in advance.. the search and research continues.

Best regards...
 
Weight?

Jeff,
Perhaps you can provide us with a little more info on that
IO 470C powered RV-8.
Empty weight/gross weight?
Useful load ?
CG location?
From what I can tell, your RV-8 under consideration has an engine about 100lb
heavier than a Lycoming IO 360 and about 50 hp more than what the RV-8 was intended for, I'm sure it's a hot rod.
I have flown my Lycoming powered RV-8 and a Franklin powered RV-8 both of similar weight and performance. Best I can tell, there are less than a handful of Franklin powered RV-8s. I can only guess how few RV-8s are powered by a Continental IO-470C. The point of this ramble is getting you to understand that you are buying a somewhat unique airplane/engine/prop combination, not to mention the blistering performance you may or may not expect.
Please note, Vans published "aerobatic gross weight" is listed as 1600lb.
I am only guessing but correct me if I am mistaken, the empty weight of the RV under consideration is probably 1300lb or more. That leaves you with 300 lb of useful load to perform your afternoon aerobatics.
When you buy an RV, you will immediately find hundreds of RV owners willing to help you with all sorts of questions and problems. Buying a unique airframe /engine combination sort of limits the availability of information and practical knowledge that exists with the more conventional and very common Lycoming
installations.
 
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All of the above.

I have spent a lot of time behind an IO-470S. I do not think there is any thing really wrong with having a Harmon Rocket if that is what you want, "nice bird" I do think that a stock Rocket and a stock 8 are two different items. Van set the 8 up for no more than 200 Hp. I respect his ability to map out a structure and it's load limits. With out changing the stock 8 to accept the extra Hp. and weight associated with the bigger engine and it's more Hp. I would not want to guess at its limits. You may want to look harder into this for the reason I have given and the ones given above. I hope this helps, Yours, R.E.A. III #80888
 
All,
Sorry for the delayed response, its that time of year.
The short answer to your question(s) regarding this particular RV-8 is that I don't have any w&b info. to share at this time.
Visited with the owner a few times over the phone but until I can get a couple days to go there, actually look it over closely and really dive into it... I don't have the numbers yet.
Did manage to get a day trip that was within driving range and grabbed a car to go do just that, only to get the dreaded phone call of my pax needing to leave earlier than planned and had to turn back after getting to peek at it for only :20 mins. :(
From the outside its beautiful, very clean and well maintained. The canopy is flush with the frame, trailing edge of the ailerons/flaps were straight, etc.
Owner is friendly, genuine, knowledgeable and hasn't mentioned any issues regarding flight characteristics, useful load issues, etc. but our discussions haven't gotten to specifics.
7EF you are spot on with the weight, I believe this engine comes in at 432lbs. and the owner mentioned I believe 9lbs of lead that had to be added in the tail.
Questions of useful load, weights (empty/gross), CG, oil analysis, compression, mag service, history of any fuel/oil leaks, builder history, SB compliance, flight characteristics regarding balance in roll/yaw at various speeds, approach speeds regarding elevator authority, any damage history, are all items on my list to discuss.
Sure appreciate the response from everyone so far and hope to know more soon.
Hour is late and back out tomorrow morning, so better close up. I'm in FMY this evening and parked across the ramp from what looked to be a very nice RV-6.
Interesting how you notice a certain model/year of car on the road when your looking to buy or have recently purchased that model. Now I notice RV's on all the ramps across the country. :D
Fly safe everyone... best regards.
 
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With the additional weight in the front and back, the spin characteristics may have changed, because the fuselage pitch and yaw inertia has gotten bigger. Has he done a full spin test program?

One of the test pilots schools has a saying - "a one-airplane spin test program is going to be a short program." Take it seriously.

Dave
 
Interesting, is it just me or does it looks like a Bonanza style engine mount in the picture with the cowling open.
That must have been fun to incorporate in to the RV airframe.
 
0 470

If your primary purpose is aerobatics the engine mount and extra weight should be of great concern. A 9G plus mount for the six cylinder
Lycoming is easy, for the 470 not so easy.
The mounting structure for the ballast and its effect on aerobatics should also be considered, however this is not as big a factor as most believe.
 
Good morning,
Aerobatics isn't the purpose, "old man aerobatics" is a requirement.
The spin and all other flight characteristics will be a discussion point when I get back over to take a closer look. I'm fortunate to have a brother from back in the college days who spent a great deal of his career as a mil test pilot. He is the one who turned me on to the Vans RV-8 in the first place. :)
Now even more thankful to have all of you and everyone here with the years of RV expertise.
I shared a few notes in a pm response this morning...

*My 1st consideration in buying this RV (or any aircraft for that matter) is whether I can sell it the next day if something catastrophic happens and I have to. There in lies the question as the IO470 has turned this RV-8 into a white elephant I'm afraid. Can I afford to lose 10K if I have to get rid of it tomorrow?
*I fly for a living spending my days behind PFD and MFD EFIS panels, so this panel isn't basic enough for me. I learned to fly in a Taylorcraft years ago that you hand propped and had 3 instruments plus an oil pressure gauge. :) Basic is what I prefer as this is going to be for day/vfr enjoyment.
*I was asked about purchasing a -4. What a cool RV!! However, prefer the room of the -8 as the wife wouldn't be comfortable in the -4.
You know how it is; "If momma ain't happy.. I get no airplane."
*I'm looking for something tandem, tailwheel and "old man" aerobatic to play with in the afternoons from a grass trip with a comfortable ride for a 3 to 4 hour cross country. I just really like the Vans RV-8 from what I've seen as it appeals to all of those reqs. Again, need a comfortable seat for the CEO otherwise she won't sign off on letting me get one. :rolleyes:
*Right price. My kiddo is off to college this coming summer, so I don't have $100K+ to devote to a toy. I can swing it if I keep the price in the $60-80K range but finding this hard to find if you want a descent -8 with an IO360. When I saw this one at $67,700 it peaked my interest.

*Final talking point: The good news is there were -8's for sale last year, there are -8's for sale this year and there will be next year.

I'm in no hurry and won't settle for something until I feel its right for me.
Just hoping I can find something and be able to join up with you all at some point. ;)

FMI68
 
Interesting, is it just me or does it looks like a Bonanza style engine mount in the picture with the cowling open.
That must have been fun to incorporate in to the RV airframe.

Nope, it's not just you, that looks like an entire Bonanza nose section grafted on there. It's definitely weird looking, but, if it works...
 
My neighbor has a nice RV8 for sale. Military paint job, IO360 Lyc, new Gemini autopilot. Husband passed away so she is asking around $82,500 but will entertain offers. Located at Falmouth Airpark, Cape Cod, MA.

email for more info.

Mitch Garner
[email protected]
 
470

I have a very basic RV 8 and have tweaked the W&B to approximate the 470 engine, added 50 lb each to the main wheel weight and 9 lb to the tailwheel. My estimate is that with full fuel and a 200 lb pilot you would be limited to a 130 lb passenger and no baggage. I can send you the W&B work sheet if you like and you can play with it.
 
I have a very basic RV 8 and have tweaked the W&B to approximate the 470 engine, added 50 lb each to the main wheel weight and 9 lb to the tailwheel. My estimate is that with full fuel and a 200 lb pilot you would be limited to a 130 lb passenger and no baggage. I can send you the W&B work sheet if you like and you can play with it.

I'd expect the new engine to remove weight from the tailwheel. The new (heavier) engine is forward of the main gear, meaning all of the additional weight plus a little more is going to rest on the mains. That "little more" is what comes off of the tailwheel.
 
DISCLAIMER:

I am not an engineer of any kind, nor a scientist, nor a test-pilot (other than for 40 hours some years back)...heel, I'm barely a pilot...

Nevertheless, I built my RV-8 to be as light as possible; a straight O-360-A1A, lightweight CS prop, no carpeting, no hula-girl on the dashboard, etc.

Empty weight came out to be 1045.

When I fly one-up doing gentleman's aerobatics, I think the aircraft is nose-heavier than I would like...two-up, she's a dream...what I think of when they talk about the RV "feel".

If I had it to do over again, I might even consider an O-320 and/or FP prop. (Those Catto's are nice!)

When I see RV-8s with big engine/prop combinations, I shrug...it might out- climb or out run-me by a bit, but as far as the "feel"...I think I'll keep my old girl.

And in a dogfight? Well then, we'd just have to see...:D
 
Happy wife, happy life...as the old addage says..

From a "mans" point of view the -8 has everything, quick agile, beautiful to look at..

From the "ladies" point of view, some like their own space in the back...others don't.

I loved the -8, would still like to build a light one...my wife prefers our shared -10. Comfortable, roomy, take the kids or friends...load her up and just go.

If I were to buy or build an -8 I'd put a parallel valve, 180 or so hp engine in it. You really don't "need" any more...you can cruise at 165 kts with that if you want to.

Anything heavier up front and they become nose heavy. You can put weight in the back to balance it out...but you lose that "light" feel..and you run out of trim on landing, so you are constantly applying a stick force.

My suggestion would be to go and fly an -8 and get someone to give your good lady a ride in the back and see if you both get the RV grin. Then try and find a reasonably "standard" one...if there is such a thing!
 
RV-8 w/IO470

Jeff,

No offense to the builder but this is really a "one off" airplane and you may want to check with a couple insurance companies before you write a check. Since this is a non standard engine for the -8 I would bet that you will have some pretty high premiums. The -8 was not designed for this engine and you may find that 2 people & full fuel might be right at max gross. Which also means you may not be able to do acro with a passenger.

Food for thought....
 
Valid points.
Checked insurance.. not sure the norm but it was affordable.
Quick note of thanks for the responses, PM's and phone calls.
For a newby, the support here is impressive and worth the dues. :)
Pressing on... more to come, have a good weekend.
 
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